Current Events > Transgender Cyclist Wins Female Cycling World Championship

(+) Yeah! (+)

Twin3Turbo posted...

pinky0926 posted...

I'd pull back a little bit tbh. There are a few instances of trans athletes performing better than expected like in this story, but I dunno about the apocalyptic scenario you're suggesting. There is not currently a endemic of trans athletes overwhelming women's sports. The conversations at this stage are mostly hypothetical, i.e. about what should be allowed to continue.

I get that we still need more data but just at a glance, given how low the trans population is, I think it says quite a bit when we have story after story of MtF's absolutely dominating female competition. By the same token, given how low the population is, I doubt there is going to be an epidemic but still.

The interesting stats to me are the ones that show an average performance male athlete transitioning, and then performing at an elite level as a female athlete, like in the case of Mary Gregory.
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pinky0926 posted...

The interesting stats to me are the ones that show an average performance male athlete transitioning, and then performing at an elite level as a female athlete, like in the case of Mary Gregory.

Yep, like Cece Telfer

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We dont need to force boxing style divisions on sports that dont currently have those. Its not practical for a lot of sports. We could just change the names of exiting divisions so MTF trans people dont compete against biological females.

Male and female track and field were segregated because people wanted to see the fastest males and the fastest females. Nobody cares about the fastest 510 male with x amount of testosterone and flat feet.
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Sackgurl posted...

there's been better data collected on transgendered person murder rates than "some youtuber googled 'trans percent of population' and compared FBI crime data statistics, and we should trust his argument because it reinforces beliefs we already had"

since there is uncertainty in both "whether a murder victim who was transgendered was identified as such by the FBI" and "how many people are transgendered, or are trans in ways reflective of the victims of murder are", data confidence ranges have to be established

here's a study that attempts to establish data ranges:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5551594/

and here's one that identifies some further uncertainty not considered by the first, which advises caution about how to interpret some of its results:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5551619/

the tldr is consistent with what sonicfan posted earlier: black/latin transfem people have significantly higher murder rates than black/latina cisfem people

white people in general have much lower murder rates which means the noise is likely too great to make clear extrapolations about white transfem people--even a handful of miscounted cases would significantly alter the results.

what we should definitely not be doing is relying on google results like "how many people are trans" and 'how many murder victims are trans', assuming those numbers have negligible uncertainty, and drawing conclusions on that basis alone. if it seems too easy that's because it is too easy.

and if you trust a youtube video over published research, you're probably not interested in the truth

I trust data, I'm not an elitist if it's present in a youtube video or not.

Googling for information generally, while easy, is also accurate. If I google radius of the earth I get "3,958.8 mi", if I google Gravitatonal constant I get "6.67408 10-11 m3 kg-1 s-2" these match up with what you'll find in the most expensive physics books.

That said I do care about the data so unlike averagejoel and others who became oddly silent after I presented the numbers I had seen and calculated, I will read these articles and see if they contradict anything I've found.
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she wins. good for her.

...how close was this race? did her competition let her win? only way i see this whole thing go now is when eventually we get cycling rollerderby where a cyclist delays other women on purpose so another woman wins.

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pinky0926 posted...

OnWingsOfMisery posted...

Women need to stand up and fight back against this stuff. It's their battle to have. Their achievements and spaces are being dominated now and the aura of fear and misery is forcing them to just accept it.

I'd pull back a little bit tbh. There are a few instances of trans athletes performing better than expected like in this story, but I dunno about the apocalyptic scenario you're suggesting. There is not currently a pandemic of trans athletes overwhelming women's sports. The conversations at this stage are mostly hypothetical, i.e. about what should be allowed to continue.

Certainly competition-to-competition it shouldn't have much of an impact, since we're talking the fraction of trans people who get into professional athletics which is already a tiny tiny fraction of the population. The bigger long-term impact will be on things like world records that become physically impossible to beat if are a female.
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reposting so it's on this page
averagejoel posted...

Twin3Turbo posted...

I think it says quite a bit when we have story after story of MtF's absolutely dominating female competition.

I think it would say quite a bit if we did have story after story of "MTF's" [sic] absolutely dominating female competition. however, we do not.

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Progressively out-muscling the competition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YCbpzQ1aOM" data-time="&start=48
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averagejoel posted...

reposting so it's on this page
averagejoel posted...

Twin3Turbo posted...

I think it says quite a bit when we have story after story of MtF's absolutely dominating female competition.

I think it would say quite a bit if we did have story after story of "MTF's" [sic] absolutely dominating female competition. however, we do not.

There are all kinds of women's records being broken and top placements being won by trans athletes across a wide range of sports, although this is tempered by the fact there are not that many trans athletes competing. You are either being dishonest about this or you haven't been paying attention to the news.

I'm betting it's the former.
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As long as women are cool with it, then it's cool.
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Lorenzo_2003 posted...

There are all kinds of women's records being broken and top placements being won by trans athletes across a wide range of sports, although this is tempered by the fact there are not that many trans athletes competing. You are either being dishonest about this or you haven't been paying attention to the news.

I'm betting it's the former.

news outlets are over-reporting the success of trans athletes because that's the stuff that generates clicks.

they rarely give context; e.g. they almost never say how many times that one trans woman lost against those same cis women before happening to beat them one time.

it's especially prominent on CE because people on here love to hate trans people, so the already disproportionately-covered stories of trans women winning sports seems even more disproportionate.
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Lorenzo_2003 posted...

averagejoel posted...

reposting so it's on this page
averagejoel posted...

Twin3Turbo posted...

I think it says quite a bit when we have story after story of MtF's absolutely dominating female competition.

I think it would say quite a bit if we did have story after story of "MTF's" [sic] absolutely dominating female competition. however, we do not.

There are all kinds of women's records being broken and top placements being won by trans athletes across a wide range of sports, although this is tempered by the fact there are not that many trans athletes competing. You are either being dishonest about this or you haven't been paying attention to the news.

I'm betting it's the former.

If you can provide a specific reference pool for this, it won't look like you're totally full of shit.

"all kinds across a wide range" is so vague as to be a useless statement that only tells me about your personal perception.

Guide posted...

As with all these topics, I'd like to see the collected and parsed statistics of all transgender placements in all female events. The placement stats will speak the truth. Everything else here is bigotry, empty defense, and posturing.

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