Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 242: China, in fact, DOES Care

(+) Yeah! (+)

Corrik7 posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Outside of bombing the Kurds and opening the cell doors for ISIS himself, I don't see how Trump could have fucked this up any harder.

So, do you believe we should have had to stay in Syria from now til the end of time in order to prevent this conflict?

I believe we should at least have been there until all the captured ISIS suspects had been properly tried.

Since, you know, thats nominally why we were there.

Enabling a situation that allows them all to go free kind of means the entire operation was a waste.

But we kept the worst 2!
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And if Trump is the master of foreign policy deals that he claims to be, he should have been able to negotiate peace between the Kurds and Erdogan before withdrawing.

Pulling out and saying now be good while were gone or we will take your allowance away is just negligent
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I mean hes on Twitter literally campaigning on WORLD PEACE
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Jakyl25 posted...

And if Trump is the master of foreign policy deals that he claims to be, he should have been able to negotiate peace between the Kurds and Erdogan before withdrawing.

Pulling out and saying now be good while were gone or we will take your allowance away is just negligent

Yes, he should have invited both sides to Mar a Lago for peace talks.
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AMI (parent company of the National Enquirer) shredded Trump docs before the election:

https://twitter.com/RonanFarrow/status/1183867890459643905

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Corrik7 posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Outside of bombing the Kurds and opening the cell doors for ISIS himself, I don't see how Trump could have fucked this up any harder.

So, do you believe we should have had to stay in Syria from now til the end of time in order to prevent this conflict?

i might be wrong here, but I think it was like 50 troops Trump withdrew that then allowed for this to happen

Id say if keeping that few soldiers there all the time forever would prevent this then yeah, stay there forever
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damn I knew Tulsi boycotting the debate was too good to be true

https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1183716774476312576?s=19

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Also according to this statement

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1183833640507269120?s=21

All the troops hes pulling out are just being redeployed elsewhere in the Middle East

No one is coming home. No endless wars are ending
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

damn I knew Tulsi boycotting the debate was too good to be true

https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1183716774476312576?s=19

Oh you mean Tulsi changed her mind within days no way
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Jakyl25 posted...

All the troops hes pulling out are just being redeployed elsewhere in the Middle East

No one is coming home. No endless wars are ending

So basically our troops don't even get to come home, they were moved out of the way for Turkey to kill our allies for absolutely zero upside for us?
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Dark Young Link posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

All the troops hes pulling out are just being redeployed elsewhere in the Middle East

No one is coming home. No endless wars are ending

So basically our troops don't even get to come home, they were moved out of the way for Turkey to kill our allies for absolutely zero upside for us?

Yes, thats what it seems
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Jakyl25 posted...

Dark Young Link posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

All the troops hes pulling out are just being redeployed elsewhere in the Middle East

No one is coming home. No endless wars are ending

So basically our troops don't even get to come home, they were moved out of the way for Turkey to kill our allies for absolutely zero upside for us?

Yes, thats what it seems

Upside for Russia though.

Again.

Seems to be a pattern.
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Former Pompeo advisor who resigned last week will testify before impeachment investigators:

https://twitter.com/andrewdesiderio/status/1183874723693899776?s=21

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The Kurds were not our allies. We were using them the entire time. Their status as our ally was for our own strategic purposes and to look good in the press. It was always going to be a matter of time before the US was done supporting a socialist, secular group in the middle east that believed in gender equality. We are a monstrous empire that toys with these peoples lives because our business is war, and stability, a happy populous, and peace are antithetical to our mission. One of the main reasons we don't have things like universal health care or college is so that our empire can more easit recruit soldiers. Donald Trump, nor anyone running except Bernie, wants to bring our troops home. Capitalists will not end our empire or stop our imperialism because it depends on it.

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Nrrr posted...

The Kurds were not our allies. We were using them the entire time.

Thats what an ally is to Trump
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That's what an ally is the the United States of America. Nobody should trust us. This isn't a Donald Trump issue. History is full of our broken pacts and betrayals.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Thats what an ally is to Trump

They were auxiliaries. I can only imagine the Romans losing their shit if their auxiliaries got into a war with a regional ally of theirs after the Romans had accomplished their joint mission with their auxillaries already.

That said, the Turkey-Kurd issue has been there for like decades. Acting like this is something new, and we were obligated for everlasting defense, as one poster said we should have, because we helped them accomplish their goals which aligned with our own is interesting.

I for one am glad to get out of the Syria region and hope we continue to cut our entanglements around the world that do not serve our American interests.

Neoconservatism is fine when you reliably are preventing a greater threat to the American people from forming by using military interventionism around the world. But, we Americans we are spreading ourselves too thin and need to focus on ourselves foremost, in scenarios that we aren't reliably doing the greater good for American interests.

Our government and military responsibility is to the American people.

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Corrik7 posted...

I for one am glad to get out of the Syria region and hope we continue to cut our entanglements around the world that do not serve our American interests.

ok but we didn't even get out of the "Syria region", just out of Syria itself.

And the result was a bunch of innocent people being murdered almost overnight.

Worth it?
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

ok but we didn't even get out of the "Syria region", just out of Syria itself.

And the result was a bunch of innocent people being murdered almost overnight.

Worth it?

We should get out of all areas that do not serve American interests foremost.

Your term of innocent is interesting there, as well.

Our military's duty is to American interests and citizens.

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Corrik7 posted...

I for one am glad to get out of the Syria region and hope we continue to cut our entanglements around the world that do not serve our American interests.

Neoconservatism is fine when you reliably are preventing a greater threat to the American people from forming by using military interventionism around the world. But, we Americans we are spreading ourselves too thin and need to focus on ourselves foremost, in scenarios that we aren't reliably doing the greater good for American interests.

Our government and military responsibility is to the American people.

Okay even with this viewpoint, the consequences have been ceding control of an unstable region to Syria/Russia/Iran as well as allowed ISIS a chance to make a resurgence. Is this not in line enough with American interests?

Even Bernie thinks this is a huge fucking mistake and he's one of the most anti-Forever War politicians out there.

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Corrik really will defend trump on anything.

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"Turkey considers the YPG a "terrorist" group with ties to the armed Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), which has waged a bloody war in Turkey since the 1980s demanding Kurdish autonomy.
The US demand for the YPG militia's safety has been a source of growing tensions between the NATO allies, which led to President Donald Trump threatening Ankara with economic "devastation" if it hits the armed group in northern Syria."

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/01/demands-security-guarantee-kurdish-ypg-turkey-190122081955863.html

I mean, we have to be realistic that Turkey deems this group as terrorists linked to multiple attacks and revolutionary nationalists which to acquire Turkish land in forming their own nation.

This wasn't a new development.

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Might not wanna put a ton of stock in what groups authoritarian governments deem terrorists.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Okay even with this viewpoint, the consequences have been ceding control of an unstable region to Syria/Russia/Iran as well as allowed ISIS a chance to make a resurgence. Is this not in line enough with American interests?

Even Bernie thinks this is a huge fucking mistake and he's one of the most anti-Forever War politicians out there.

Well, for that we have to trust that our leader weighed American interests between animosity between NATO allies, the possibility of Syria reacquiring their own country back, Iran's influence, and ISIS re-emerging despite the plethora of issues which make that unlikely.

All in all, I expect our leadership weighed these against one another and decided which one benefits the American people the most. Hopefully they chose correctly.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Might not wanna put a ton of stock in what groups authoritarian governments deem terrorists.

Pretty much all governments are gonna deem people terrorists that wish to have your land ceded from your nation to form their owns, realistically.

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Corrik7 posted...

All in all, I expect our leadership weighed these against one another and decided which one benefits the American people the most. Hopefully they chose correctly.

Is this what you think Trump did?

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Corrik7 posted...

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Okay even with this viewpoint, the consequences have been ceding control of an unstable region to Syria/Russia/Iran as well as allowed ISIS a chance to make a resurgence. Is this not in line enough with American interests?

Even Bernie thinks this is a huge fucking mistake and he's one of the most anti-Forever War politicians out there.

Well, for that we have to trust that our leader weighed American interests between animosity between NATO allies, the possibility of Syria reacquiring their own country back, Iran's influence, and ISIS re-emerging despite the plethora of issues which make that unlikely.

All in all, I expect our leadership weighed these against one another and decided which one benefits the American people the most. Hopefully they chose correctly.

We are questioning the wisdom of the decision.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Is this what you think Trump did?

That's what his job is as President and Commander in Chief.

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Corrik7 posted...

we have to trust that our leader weighed American interests

Oh okay well that really does explain it

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Corrik7 posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

Might not wanna put a ton of stock in what groups authoritarian governments deem terrorists.

Pretty much all governments are gonna deem people terrorists that wish to have your land ceded from your nation to form their owns, realistically.

Like the 13 colonies?
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red sox 777 posted...

We are questioning the wisdom of the decision.

Easy to question when you don't have the information the government has.

Be like questioning the NFL coach when you watch 3 games of football a year.

Oh wait...

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red sox 777 posted...

Like the 13 colonies?

Yes, we were terrorists to the British Crown and they sent men with guns to put us down by the sword if necessary.

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Corrik7 posted...

All in all, I expect our leadership weighed these against one another and decided which one benefits the American people the most. Hopefully they chose correctly.

Why would you expect this?
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Corrik7 posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

Is this what you think Trump did?

That's what his job is as President and Commander in Chief.

Okay you are either brain slugged or trolling
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Reporting seems to indicate that virtually all of Trumps advisors opposed this decision, and its manifestly resulted in a clusterfuck

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Jakyl25 posted...

Why would you expect this?

I think from the expected angle, not the biased angle you all do. For example, someone here is already with OMG the innocent militiamen being killed in a conflict that has existed for decades! Think about the Innocents why don't ya!

Well, it's a biased angle and a bad starting point. The starting point should be is why does Donald Trump think this move is better for the United States, it's citizens, and it's interests. Many of you can't even comprehend that starting place though because you have convinced yourself he is a Russian plant or out to destroy America. I think the unbiased person can see he really cares for America and is doing what he thinks is right whether it actually is or not. I can't think of any president who didn't in office.

So, why does he feel this is better for American interests? The major drawback is that the United States has showed they are willing to step away from someone they partnered with on a common goal mission once the mission was deemed completed and leave them to their own devices.

Does this hurt us with figure regional tribal allies? Maybe. I would argue likely not as the biggest draw at the end of the day to work together is the mutual benefit. Groups were lining up to be our frontmen in Syria for our weapons and tactical training. We had to vet groups and reportedly picked what we could from a ton of shady groups / gray groups that didn't really epitomize our actual values and had questionable qualities.

Donald Trump weighed this. He made the decision he felt was best. I hope to hear more from him down the road on why he feels this was the best move.

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It's total bullshit to say you want the troops to come home and we should focus on America, etc and also say you trust the people in power to protect American interests. That's why the troops aren't home, they consider our forever wars to be protecting American interests. Of course, by "American interests" they obviously don't mean the working class, or the folks in the military, they mean their rich pals in the defense and oil industries, the CIA and their drug running operations, etc.

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Corrik7 posted...

I can't think of any president who didn't in office.

Okay

Youre blind
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Corrik7 posted...

why does Donald Trump think this move is better for the United States, it's citizens, and it's interests.

(it's because he personally stands to benefit from it in some way)

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Corrik7 posted...

I think from the expected angle, not the biased angle you all do. For example, someone here is already with OMG the innocent militiamen being killed in a conflict that has existed for decades! Think about the Innocents why don't ya!

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/state-department-says-killing-of-hervin-khalaf-extremely-troubling_n_5da362f8e4b02c9da04c6288

A Syrian politician was gang-raped and murdered, in addition to other verified civilian deaths. Are you saying they weren't innocent?

Literally what is your definition?

Corrik7 posted...

Donald Trump weighed this. He made the decision he felt was best. I hope to hear more from him down the road on why he feels this was the best move.

Also if your baseline is "oh well it SEEMS bad but I trust he had good reasons", that's literally biased by definition. If you were unbiased you'd be demanding evidence of the decision being good, not assuming that it is.
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Donald Trump doesnt care about other people who cant do anything for him. Im not saying this because hes a Republican or because I disagree with his policies or whatever. Im saying this because he very clearly both has narcissistic personality disorder and is a sociopath. He is incapable of putting the interests of the country above himself.

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I guess this is the logical extreme of lawful neutral

The automatic presumption that anyone in power is acting in good faith PURELY BECAUSE they have power
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Donald Trump doesnt care about other people who cant do anything for him. Im not saying this because hes a Republican or because I disagree with his policies or whatever. Im saying this because he very clearly both has narcissistic personality disorder and is a sociopath. He is incapable of putting the interests of the country above himself.

Just a nitpick

Hes not a sociopath. I can go deeper on that in the next topic if you want.
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Would love to hear the argument!

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I recall recently Corrik actually said he probably would not be voting for Trump because, even to CORRIK, he does not appear interested in uniting the country.

What about that decision Trump is making to not unite the country leads you to believe he cares about whats best for the American people?
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Jakyl25 posted...

I guess this is the logical extreme of lawful neutral

The automatic presumption that anyone in power is acting in good faith PURELY BECAUSE they have power

but her emails?
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Reporting seems to indicate that virtually all of Trumps advisors opposed this decision, and its manifestly resulted in a clusterfuck

So he probably did it expecting their advice to be bad as usual.
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there is zero inherit value in a united country. utterly inane thing to base your decision off of.

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