Current Events > CNBC: Greta Thnberg could backfire for environmentalists

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/24/how-greta-thunbergs-rise-could-backfire-on-environmentalists.html

Sixteen-year-old Greta Thunberg from Sweden is the new face of the environmentalist movement, thanks to a pair of impassioned speeches to the U.S. Congress and the United Nations.

But while personalizing a movement, especially with the innocent face of a child, is usually PR gold, Gretas ascendancy to the forefront of environmental activism could end up being a major negative to the movement and the environment.

Just how inspiring or even persuasive you find Gretas speeches and overall activism likely depends on where you stand on the political spectrum. There are plenty of politicians and regular voters claiming to be inspired by her words and passion. There are also lots of observers expressing general alarm at what they see as an indoctrinated child being coerced by adults to make their political arguments with her youth as a shield from any criticism.

Her story signals a clear change in environmental movement tactics, and just how much more divisive and ineffective that change is likely to be.

Greta, and the adults guiding her, are seeking to shift almost all the focus from personal responsibility to governments and big corporations to enact environmental reform. Their argument is that individual people cant do much to save the world from climate change disaster when energy companies and governments focused mostly on economic growth dont care enough to make the big changes.

The funny thing about all of this is the free market is already doing these things based on the same capitalist incentives Greta and so many other activists are blaming for environmental disaster. Natural gas is cheaper and produces 50% fewer emissions than coal, nuclear power has been modernized and made much safer in recent decades while producing no emissions. For-profit entities like a company called Carbon Engineering are working on machines that literally suck carbon emissions out of the atmosphere.

Its not just die-hard capitalists or environmental skeptics who are pushing back on this focus away from personal responsibility. In a remarkable interview on PBS last week, author Jonathan Safran Foer spoke out against Warrens comments and pointed out that those who say they believe in the dire effects of climate change would do more than protest if they really believed it. That point is the premise of Foers new book, We Are the Weather: Saving

This new focus on making environmentalism an angrier protest movement threatens to make the effort to protect the planet just another wedge issue that politicians often use to motivate their base of voters. Similar wedge issues like abortion and gun control have long shifted become tribal controversies with little chance of progress and compromise.

Greta Thunberg is angry. Lots of people are angry. But anger without doing something other than protesting and making speeches wont protect the environment or do much else other than produce more anger.

Tl;dr
Being angry and shirking responsibility to others like corporations undermines the personal responsibility movement of the 80s and 90s in a time when capitalism is forcing corps to be friendlier to the environment anyways.

the personal responsibility movement is horseshit because corporations are responsible for 90% of the world's carbon emissions
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Wut
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CNBC is right. Voters don't want to listen to angry young radicals who offer no balanced solutions.
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Butterfiles posted...

the personal responsibility movement is horseshit because corporations are responsible for 90% of the world's carbon emissions

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Antifar posted...

There's an air of "this is why Trump won" to some of the arguments ITT. People who can't really justify support for Trump/climate denial but who nevertheless want to pin the blame on liberals and the left.

There's not a tactic climate activists could take that would suddenly make your average American climate change denier change their views, because that sort of person isn't really encountering climate activism, at least not without the filter of a Fox News pundit. They're exposed to far more Tucker Carlson and other sources who are paid well to deny or downplay the problem than any fully laid out arguments about the need to cut carbon emissions.

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FrozenXylophone posted...

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/24/how-greta-thunbergs-rise-could-backfire-on-environmentalists.html

Tl;dr
Being angry and shirking responsibility to others like corporations undermines the personal responsibility movement of the 80s and 90s in a time when capitalism is forcing corps to be friendlier to the environment anyways.

Translated:
You need more bootstraps and also just stop living on a polluted planet.

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FrozenXylophone posted...

they see as an indoctrinated child being coerced by adults to make their political arguments with her youth as a shield from any criticism.

Interesting.

FrozenXylophone posted...

threatens to make the effort to protect the planet just another wedge issue that politicians often use to motivate their base of voters

thats on scumbag republicans. not on her.
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FrozenXylophone posted...

Greta, and the adults guiding her, are seeking to shift almost all the focus from personal responsibility to governments and big corporations to enact environmental reform. Their argument is that individual people cant do much to save the world from climate change disaster when energy companies and governments focused mostly on economic growth dont care enough to make the big changes.

they are exactly
right

FrozenXylophone posted...

The funny thing about all of this is the free market is already doing these things based on the same capitalist incentives Greta and so many other activists are blaming for environmental disaster

lmao imagine being dumb enough to believe this


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Can we launch CNBC into the sun yet
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Butterfiles posted...

the personal responsibility movement is horseshit because corporations are responsible for 90% of the world's carbon emissions

Nothing wrong with a little carbon.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth
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Antifar posted...

Antifar posted...

There's an air of "this is why Trump won" to some of the arguments ITT. People who can't really justify support for Trump/climate denial but who nevertheless want to pin the blame on liberals and the left.

There's not a tactic climate activists could take that would suddenly make your average American climate change denier change their views, because that sort of person isn't really encountering climate activism, at least not without the filter of a Fox News pundit. They're exposed to far more Tucker Carlson and other sources who are paid well to deny or downplay the problem than any fully laid out arguments about the need to cut carbon emissions.

Where is this from?

You are quoting your own post from another thread?

Corporate-mandated/oriented business network say "THEY'RE" not the problem; it's the workers.

Shocking.
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Butterfiles posted...

the personal responsibility movement is horseshit because corporations are responsible for 90% of the world's carbon emissions

Youre responsible for what you buy. Vote with your dollars.
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As long as we keep rewarding theatre instead of actual solutions then nothing's gonna get done.

And pro-tip, corporations LOVE the theatre. Don't be surprised when some corps start using Greta for their marketing
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Antifar posted...

There's not a tactic climate activists could take that would suddenly make your average American climate change denier change their views

"Here's how clean energy lowers your monthly energy bill"

If you can make a very concise, clear case for how this shift is going to make people's daily lives better, or their bills smaller, then they should make it. The problem is that historically the request has been for individuals to endure some degree of personal suffering for an abstract long-term benefit that mostly impacts people in third world countries. That has never been a winning marketing strategy.
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Chad-Henne posted...

Can we launch CNBC into the sun yet

To be fair it is an opinion piece.

Jake Novak. Idk much about him. Looks like he did work for cnbc at one time.

konokonohamaru posted...

As long as we keep rewarding theatre instead of actual solutions then nothing's gonna get done.

And pro-tip, corporations LOVE the theatre. Don't be surprised when some corps start using Greta for their marketing

Quality usage of the term "theatre" tbph.

And yeah it's gonna happen although corporations have been doing the "Going Green" thing forever while they power all their facilities and rooms with fossil fuels and energy inefficient lights 24/7
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ah yes bootstraps and personal responsibility and the invisible hand will take care of everything and we shouldn't put the onus on corporations because something something economy something something competition something something vote with your dollar

man, I'm getting really fucking sick of this world
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Butterfiles posted...

the personal responsibility movement is horseshit because corporations are responsible for 90% of the world's carbon emissions

So don't use their services.

Actually: The Article
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"Look what you made me do!"
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tamagucci posted...

Butterfiles posted...

the personal responsibility movement is horseshit because corporations are responsible for 90% of the world's carbon emissions

So don't use their services.

ok, how do I get every other person on the planet to stop using their services too? this isn't about personal decisions
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FrozenXylophone posted...

shirking responsibility to others like corporations

Holy shit

You people are literally always saying how tiny a contribution you can make individually and blaming China...but now it's wrong to focus on the biggest polluters!

Malfunction posted...

FrozenXylophone posted...

shirking responsibility to others like corporations

Holy shit

You people are literally always saying how tiny a contribution you can make individually and blaming China...but now it's wrong to focus on the biggest polluters!

they want to divert attention to everyone that isn't one of our industries
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Malfunction posted...

FrozenXylophone posted...

shirking responsibility to others like corporations

Holy shit

You people are literally always saying how tiny a contribution you can make individually and blaming China...but now it's wrong to focus on the biggest polluters!

You people as in Jake Novak?

ThyCorndog posted...

tamagucci posted...

Butterfiles posted...

the personal responsibility movement is horseshit because corporations are responsible for 90% of the world's carbon emissions

So don't use their services.

ok, how do I get every other person on the planet to stop using their services too? this isn't about personal decisions

It's not?

tamagucci posted...

ThyCorndog posted...

tamagucci posted...

Butterfiles posted...

the personal responsibility movement is horseshit because corporations are responsible for 90% of the world's carbon emissions

So don't use their services.

ok, how do I get every other person on the planet to stop using their services too? this isn't about personal decisions

It's not?

If you don't care, you probably shouldn't be involved in political discussions.
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once we abolish capitalism we can finally make progress on halting climate change
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her youth as a shield from any criticism

Hahaha that's now how things actually play out....
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The planet deserves to die if people are stupid enough to view climate change as a wedge issue. Fuck humans.
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ThyCorndog posted...

man, I'm getting really fucking sick of this world

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This "capitalism is already saving the planet anyway" is quite an argument I have seen popping up lately.
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"Actually, this awesome thing is bad for ~reasons~, mostly because it makes us feel bad about our life choices." -CNBC

hockeybub89 posted...

This "capitalism is already saving the planet anyway" is quite an argument I have seen popping up lately.

You too can be saved and moved to a temperate economic zone, but only if you agree to abolish the minimum wage to give our job creators the flexibility they need to synergize with the climate crisis!

Is that really a fair description? Didn't Greta like bully her parents into being more eco friendly by doing stuff like not taking planes any more, and she does that herself, too?

I think that it is true of a lot of climate change activists that they don't want to accept that personal sacrifice is going to be part of combating climate change. But that doesn't seem like a way to describe Greta Thunberg.

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Butterfiles posted...

the personal responsibility movement is horseshit because corporations are responsible for 90% of the world's carbon emissions

First post nails it

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the 90% statistic from corporations includes the emissions from the services their customers like you and me and purchase though...


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Balrog0 posted...

the 90% statistic from corporations includes the emissions from the services their customers like you and me and purchase though...

"Cars pollute the planet"

"Well no one is forcing you to get from point A to point B or to not buy a fully alternative energy vehicle! Can't blame the auto manufacturers and oil companies!"
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Butterfiles posted...

the personal responsibility movement is horseshit because corporations are responsible for 90% of the world's carbon emissions

Need to decide whether people in the west consume more because these corporations produce the goods or the corporations produce the goods because there is demand.

This is where the personal responsibility comes from. If there wasnt a demand these companies wouldnt produce the goods that go towards producing climate change.
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Crepes posted...

Butterfiles posted...

the personal responsibility movement is horseshit because corporations are responsible for 90% of the world's carbon emissions

Need to decide whether people in the west consume more because these corporations produce the goods or the corporations produce the goods because there is demand.

This is where the personal responsibility comes from. If there wasnt a demand these companies wouldnt produce the goods that go towards producing climate change.

Are people specifically demanding climate unfriendly goods though? Do cars run on gasoline because consumers hate electric? Are we demanding coal because we hate solar and nuclear? Do we demand that the factories that produce our goods pump out as much pollution as possible? That they dump their waste in the water supply?

You don't just have free rein to do whatever you want because "Welp people want things"

"There couldn't be pollution if people were still cool with a pre-industrial society! Personal responsibility!"
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hockeybub89 posted...

"Cars pollute the planet"

"Well no one is forcing you to get from point A to point B or to not buy a fully alternative energy vehicle! Can't blame the auto manufacturers and oil companies!"

I don't see why it needs to be an either/or proposition. If you tax carbon, for example, it will work to reduce corporate pollution by reducing personal consumption at the margins. As far as the public policies around cars go, I think the general American public more or less likes the current situation, though I don't discount stuff like the Kochs fighting against transit projects etc.

The point I'm making is just that reducing corporate pollution means reducing personal pollution whatever way you get to it. edit: I don't think personal responsibility is the answer any more than I think 'corporate responsibility' is the answer, though. It's a system level change that requires government action.

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Balrog0 posted...

I don't think personal responsibility is the answer any more than I think 'corporate responsibility' is the answer, though. It's a system level change that requires government action.

What kind of government action, im curious, you can offer a personal, and a corporate one if you want

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GoodOlJr posted...

What kind of government action, im curious, you can offer a personal, and a corporate one if you want

I just think we should tax carbon, the price of which will be passed on to consumers. I know that there are some people who think that's not necessary and that we can get there by subsidizing renewables and fixing our energy grid, but I'm skeptical of that view. If you believe that, though, maybe we could get there without sacrifice (except for as far as you'd need to be taxed or otherwise pay for said subsidies etc)

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actually this is kind of funny just saw this

https://twitter.com/MattBruenig/status/1176848392535859200

not sure how sincere he is but I think the big problem with the carbon tax is just that we have very anti-tax sentiments in this country. maybe framing it as a fine for pollution is smarter. I don't think so though, because it has the same impact ultimately

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Butterfiles posted...

the personal responsibility movement is horseshit because corporations are responsible for 90% of the world's carbon emissions

Nope.

Government is. Especially the Chinese and Indian ones.
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They implemented the carbon tax here and the Right-Wing Governments are literally wasting taxpayer dollars trying to fight it in court.
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darkjedilink posted...

Butterfiles posted...

the personal responsibility movement is horseshit because corporations are responsible for 90% of the world's carbon emissions

Nope.

Government is. Especially the Chinese and Indian ones.

At the same time, we buy chinese products fueling their industry, promoting them to emit more carbon.

Butterfiles posted...

the personal responsibility movement is horseshit because corporations are responsible for 90% of the world's carbon emissions

Then take some personal responsibility and stop buying their stuff. But that won't happen. The whole environmental movement is about appearing woke by making symbolic gestures without actually doing anything meaningful. These green shills won't give up anything that would actually inconvenience them.
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