Board 8 > So will souls not have free will in Heaven?

(+) Yeah! (+)

So...

Good cannot exist without evil.

More pertinent, free will cannot exist without the capacity to sin/commit evil.

But as we all know, there will be no sin/evil in Heaven.

So will souls have no free will in Heaven?
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If you sin you go to hell.

You have the free will to sin, you just have to accept the consequences of that.

We have the free will to murder people, and if you do you'll probably go to prison. That's the consequence.

So I would assume you can sin in Heaven, you would just get thrown out immediately.
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man heaven sounds fuckin lame
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Johnbobb posted...

man heaven sounds fuckin lame

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If you get to heaven I'm sure it wont be a problem.
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Can a being with free will really avoid sinning (even tiny sins) forever though? In order to do that, would one not have to be perfect, like God Himself. I dont recall anything about human souls attaining absolute perfection in Heaven, but I could be forgetting something.
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Which religion are we talking about?

The Abrahamic Religions? Hinduism? Buddhism? Ancient Religions?
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I mean Christian heaven is basically just being one in worship with God. In like eternal glory and happiness.

So yeah boring when viewed from our viewpoint but amazing when you are actually a part of it.
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Dancedreamer posted...

Which religion are we talking about?

The Abrahamic Religions? Hinduism? Buddhism? Ancient Religions?

Christianity, but if you have any insights how other religions answer this question, feel free to share them.
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Maniac64 posted...

I mean Christian heaven is basically just being one in worship with God. In like eternal glory and happiness.

So yeah boring when viewed from our viewpoint but amazing when you are actually a part of it.

You seem to be avoiding the question though.
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Im not an expert in this but from what I understand it's just once you get to heaven your overall nature is changed to a point where you just dont want to sin. You basically transcend to a new form for lack of a better example. Also, in Judeo/Christian heaven sin just doesn't exist naturally exist in heaven.
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Cause I cant really answer it.

Presumably we have free will but wont have any desire to use it because we are in a perfect existence with God. But as I cant even comprehend what that would be like or how you could spend eternity like that (maybe there is no sense of time?) it's hard to accept it as true.
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KokoroAkechi posted...

Im not an expert in this but from what I understand it's just once you get to heaven your overall nature is changed to a point where you just dont want to sin. You basically transcend to a new form for lack of a better example. Also, in Judeo/Christian heaven sin just doesn't exist naturally exist in heaven.

This explains the lack of sin, but it also strongly implies a lack of free will.
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redrocket posted...

Can a being with free will really avoid sinning (even tiny sins) forever though? In order to do that, would one not have to be perfect, like God himself? I dont recall anything about human souls attaining absolute perfection in Heaven, but I could be forgetting something.

I think in theory they could if they didn't have any desire to sin. Like...do you have any desire to kill your neighbor, chop him into tiny pieces, and then feed it to your other neighbor? No. At least no sane person does. So even though we have the free will ability to do that, assuming one is physically capable, we have no desire to do it, so we don't do it. Well, what if that logic carried over to all sins. We had the ability to do them, but not the desire. Could true perfection be attained in that scenario?
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If I die before I wake

at least in heaven I can skate.
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@redrocket

Who gives a crap?

Rating 365 girls on a website, was memorable than anything that happened on Board 8 in years.

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=174272671&page=1

I mean it's like. Let's say you believe that Jesus did all the things that are said in the Bible. You can probably conclude that there were a ton of other people he just randomly passed that he knew were murderers, sick, maybe even possessed, etc. And just ignored them. There is absolutely 0 chance that he just healed or punished everyone based on their needs or deeds etc while he was on Earth. He's not committing a sin because He knows that judgment will come to pass on them regardless of what he does and that He Himself is not responsible for the sin that has caused the sick to be sick etc. I think Jesus knows it would be nice for the person who is sick, but not necessary that they are healed at that moment.

Like if you follow the Christian rules here Jesus was without sin while on Earth where there is a lot of sin as you call it. In heaven, you are given a transcended Christ-like form in an environment where sin and the ability to sin just does not exist. So not only are opportunities to sin basically gone but like your understanding of the consequences of sin and state of being are so changed that if you were given the option to you would just choose not to.

The thing is, besides like some more symbolic and well-known aspects of heaven like gold roads and such we don't really know how much in heaven there is that would actually require choices beyond "do i want to take the yellow gold road or the white gold road today?" type deal.
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Supposing heaven is real, and that it remotely resembles the mortal plane or even existence as we understand it (no reason to believe either of these beyond faith,) you probably would exist in a state where you can theoretically sin but simply have no reason or desire to. There would be nothing to be gained for it, no wants or needs unfulfilled nor any biological imperfections predisposing you to irrational behavior. I guess whether you want to consider that "free will" or not is up to you.
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In Christianity you're theoretically only going to be worshipping god and deriving ultimate pleasure from that so you won't have free will. And even if you did you wouldn't want it because worshiping god is the ultimate.

I think in the Judaeo-Christian tradition, sin is a result of by the corruption of the flesh (Adam and Eve), i.e. people sin to fulfill their mortal/carnal desires. In heaven, people would be freed from their corrupted bodies and lose the desire to satisfy those appetites and instead live in harmony with God or whatever.
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So for those who are saying that sin is a result of a mortal existence/body/urges etc...

How do you explain Lucifer? Despite being an angel, Lucifer still found the desire to rebel against God.
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I've played enough video games to know that God's a dick, Heaven is a trap, and the answer to the question posed by this topic is 100% yes

My understanding is that God's love would be enough to prevent people from wanting to sin.
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redrocket posted...

Good cannot exist without evil.

False. That makes no sense.
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redrocket posted...

So for those who are saying that sin is a result of a mortal existence/body/urges etc...

How do you explain Lucifer? Despite being an angel, Lucifer still found the desire to rebel against God.

I don't have an answer for that, but I also don't really believe in God. I was raised Seventh Day Adventist, which I mean in the the Jeudo-Christian religions makes the most sense to be the correct choice, but I am not religious in anyway any more.
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redrocket posted...

So for those who are saying that sin is a result of a mortal existence/body/urges etc...

How do you explain Lucifer? Despite being an angel, Lucifer still found the desire to rebel against God.

Lucifer's not a human so he doesn't apply to humanity's habit of sinning/free will. He's the cause not a symptom.

In heaven you're free from Satanic influence so yeah, the thought of doing anything besides praising God and being part of the heavenly LCL is impossible.

Coincidentally you also won't care about seeing your dead relatives or anything because all individuality goes out the window too, because to consider yourself an individual would be a manifestation of pride.

You're just loving god like a zombie, as far as I understand. Though again, you won't think of it as being like a zombie, since it'll feel so damn good

Its a mind rape of an epic scale because most all your desires are tied to a mortal body and we cant comprehend not having a body. Much like the Purple Man, god would make you want to want it. They would alter your self so completely youd basically not even be you anymore. Youd just be solely praising god for the rest of eternity like a nightmare dystopia where they lobotomize folks so they will be loyal and happy for the dictator. I dont know why Christians are so against drugs when laying around in a blissful content state is basically all heaven is.

colliding posted...

redrocket posted...

So for those who are saying that sin is a result of a mortal existence/body/urges etc...

How do you explain Lucifer? Despite being an angel, Lucifer still found the desire to rebel against God.

Lucifer's not a human so he doesn't apply to humanity's habit of sinning/free will. He's the cause not a symptom.

In heaven you're free from Satanic influence so yeah, the thought of doing anything besides praising God and being part of the heavenly LCL is impossible.

Coincidentally you also won't care about seeing your dead relatives or anything because all individuality goes out the window too, because to consider yourself an individual would be a manifestation of pride.

You're just loving god like a zombie, as far as I understand. Though again, you won't think of it as being like a zombie, since it'll feel so damn good

So...... you are on the side that there will be no free will then?
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Definitely no free will in heaven. No individuality sort of makes that impossible

Nobody knows.
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Dunno let me ask my good pal Dark Nation
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