Board 8 > Save My Favorite Final Fantasy Characters XXI: Nominations [smfffc]

(+) Yeah! (+)

MZero11 posted...

Change my Ace nom to Ace

trading my last nom for Ace

Ace for Tiz?
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Steiner posted...

trading for reno x2

for Doctor Cid?

ehhh nah seems bad
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MartinFF7 posted...

Steiner posted...

trading for reno x2

for Doctor Cid?

I will trade you Doctor Cid for Tiz
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I don't even know who that is but okay!

Tiz

MartinFF7 posted...

Unique character... in the original FF7 game!

If X-ATM092 became a generic enemy in FF16 or something, would that mean it can no longer be in representing his original, unique FF8 appearance? Likewise Dark Nation isn't a generic enemy in FF7, even if a generic one in other games.

(just to be clear, I don't care and would rather greengravy save Elena instead, lol)

I think this is a good argument for including Dark Nation btw

Crisis Core Dark Nations can't even cast protect and shell and stuff
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I don't know who your guy is either. Fair trade I say.

2) Doctor Cid
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Lopen posted...

MartinFF7 posted...

Unique character... in the original FF7 game!

If X-ATM092 became a generic enemy in FF16 or something, would that mean it can no longer be in representing his original, unique FF8 appearance? Likewise Dark Nation isn't a generic enemy in FF7, even if a generic one in other games.

(just to be clear, I don't care and would rather greengravy save Elena instead, lol)

I think this is a good argument for including Dark Nation btw

Crisis Core Dark Nations can't even cast protect and shell and stuff

The counter is X-ATM has like, legit plot relevance and features in cutscenes/outside of battle.

Has there ever been an instance where a character's eligibility has been revoked?
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In a just world, Edea Lee.

Edea out, Dark Nation in, lol.

Eh plot relevance or irrelevance was never the reason he was kept out though and is kinda slippery slope to start heading down cause I could put an argument for how little relevance Angelo has in FF8 for instance.

That's just generally what gives characters a following. Dark Nation is a unique boss monster in FFVII and it has a following. It'd be like saying Tiamat from FF1 can't be in cause there are generic Tiamat enemies in FFT
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Out of curiosity, what is wrong with Edea?
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I just think Dark Nation is purely a gameplay construct. It's not there in the field before the battle. It's not there in the cutscenes or referenced in any text outside that as far as I know.

I don't think you can say that about anything else in smfffc.
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The Bravely series isn't Final Fantasy. I don't really see why Bravely counts but Octopath doesn't.
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It started development as a sequel to 4 Heroes of Light, which was a FF spinoff, so its kinda a back door FF, but yet its inclusion was always questionable.
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pjbasis posted...

I just think Dark Nation is purely a gameplay construct. It's not there in the field before the battle. It's not there in the cutscenes or referenced in any text outside that as far as I know.

I don't think you can say that about anything else in smfffc.

This is a great point. Dark Nation for XXII once it's real in 7R!

So out of curiosity, could you nominate Ahriman since hes one of the 4 guardians of the Dark Crystals in III, even if hes a generic enemy in other games in the series?
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Gimme that FFVI prequel where it's revealed Ultros is actually a generic enemy and it turns out every time you encountered Ultros in the main game it was actually a different Ultros.
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The Mana Sword posted...

It started development as a sequel to 4 Heroes of Light, which was a FF spinoff, so its kinda a back door FF, but yet its inclusion was always questionable.

oh I never actually knew this, I just thought it was because it was an RPG with jobs and crystals or something

I still wouldn't count it (development shouldn't count imo), but at least I get it now
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Bravely Default shares enough tropes with FF that they'd absolutely be eating a lawsuit if it was made by some indie company or something. Particularly with stuff like Red Mage which as far as I know is only really a Final Fantasy 'job class' and not something that exists in your standard dungeons and dragons type stuff.
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4HoL's heroes are even prototypes of the BDFF crew!


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Tiz

for Ace
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SockoressKnight posted...

Has there ever been an instance where a character's eligibility has been revoked?

the Vagrant Story character, i forget their name
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that's be Ashley Riot
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3) Ace
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Lopen posted...

Bravely Default shares enough tropes with FF that they'd absolutely be eating a lawsuit if it was made by some indie company or something. Particularly with stuff like Red Mage which as far as I know is only really a Final Fantasy 'job class' and not something that exists in your standard dungeons and dragons type stuff.

I mean it's still a spiritual successor to a game that isn't even a mainline Final Fantasy. It's like a spinoff of a spinoff. It's been beaten to death and there's no changing the minds of anyone involved or actually having it removed, but I feel it pretty obvious to say that the game isn't actually a Final Fantasy game. It's definitely connected to the universe, but only in that it's a spiritual successor to something. Vagrant Story at least takes places in an established Final Fantasy world that's been explored by both mainline and spinoff games.
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v_charon posted...

Vagrant Story at least takes places in an established Final Fantasy world that's been explored by both mainline and spinoff games.

Yeah cause so many Final Fantasy games share their worlds

That's always the argument I've understood least. In 15 mainline Final Fantasies there are over 10 worlds. And I'm probably being very conservative there.
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I mean, I don't really see your point. All I'm saying is that Vagrant Story is a game that takes place in the same game world as Final Fantasy Tactics and Final Fantasy XII. I think that is a much stronger tie to being part of Final Fantasy than "this game started out as a Final Fantasy game, then became a spiritual successor to a much less important game whose characters no one ever talks about at all".
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I wouldn't count Vagrant Story either. Final Fantasy is Final Fantasy

BUT I agree with charon it's got a stronger claim than Bravely Default

also GMUN that wasn't a Jecht nom (but still might depending on how things shake out)
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For the record, I don't agree with either being in as well. I'm just making the commentary since Vagrant Story got banned and Bravely Default did not.
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I mean say Dirge of Cerberus had no Final Fantasy VII characters or notable references in it but was in the same world as FFVII as it is, would that have a better argument too? I feel like Bravely feels like a FF game more than Vagrant Story does.

That being said the one good Bravely character is booted so I wouldn't exactly mourn its passing at this point!
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... I mean, that's a pretty bad argument there. "Imagine Dirge of Cerberus, but pretend a playable character from VII wasn't the main character".

Even if Vincent, Yuffie, Reeve and Cait Sith weren't in the game (and DoC didn't literally have Final Fantasy in the title of the game), yes it'd be better than BD still.
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Lopen posted...

That's always the argument I've understood least. In 15 mainline Final Fantasies there are over 10 worlds. And I'm probably being very conservative there.

....other than "10 as distant 7 prequel", what are other theorized shared worlds?

are type-0 and XV at all significantly connected to XIII?

I'm just remembering the mash of words that is fabula nova crystallis final fantasy
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I think FF2 and FF4 have some support among the fandom for being in the same world cause like Ricard is supposed to be Kain's ancestor or something and some stupid light references in After Years (I thinm?). It's forced though and I disagree with it. I just figured I'd account for a lot of those just in case.

v_charon posted...

... I mean, that's a pretty bad argument there. "Imagine Dirge of Cerberus, but pretend a playable character from VII wasn't the main character".

Even if Vincent, Yuffie, Reeve and Cait Sith weren't in the game (and DoC didn't literally have Final Fantasy in the title of the game), yes it'd be better than BD still.

The point is that token lip service to being in the same world as a game from the series isn't worth much. Most would not argue a hypothetical Dirge that had none of those things and no Final Fantasy in the name was a FF game. Bravely on the other hand has a very similar feel to FF games in the presentation, the recurring themes, etc etc that Vagrant Story doesn't so much.

Keep in mind I'm NOT arguing Dirge is not a FF game as it seems you were running with there.
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Bravely default and Ashley riot being in but not Dark Nation is a travesty

Dark Nation Nation is crying
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greengravy294 posted...

Bravely default and Ashley riot being in but not Dark Nation is a travesty

Dark Nation Nation is crying

I actually agree with this though. DQing Dark Nation was always more dodgy than DQing Bravely characters.
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greengravy294 posted...

Dark Nation Nation is crying

Is that gonna be your group name or something?
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Lopen posted...

The point is that token lip service to being in the same world as a game from the series isn't worth much. Most would not argue a hypothetical Dirge that had none of those things and no Final Fantasy in the name was a FF game. Bravely on the other hand has a very similar feel to FF games in the presentation, the recurring themes, etc etc that Vagrant Story doesn't so much.

It's a Final Fantasy game because it's called Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII. It literally has the series name in the title, and not "flying fairy". Dozens of games "feel" like Final Fantasy to me, from AAA releases to RPG Makers that borrow the sprites. I mean, did Final Fantasy XII feel like a Final Fantasy game right from the start? What about Tactics? They both deviate from the series tradition, even though both styles are well incorporated now. It's not about what it feels like, it's about what it is. Who made it doesn't really matter; other Square games aren't automatically Final Fantasy games and neither is Bravely Default. It's not a knock on the game as a game, it's just not a Final Fantasy game.
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Dude

I am not saying Dirge of Cerberus is not a FF game. The "herp it has Final Fantasy in the title" stuff is completely missing the point.

I am saying Vagrant Story is more akin to a hypothetical Dirge of Cerberus that has no FF characters or name than a mainline FF game. It has very little of the FF feel. Bravely Default has the FF feel, and it's more than just the idea that it's turn based RPG combat. It's reuse of FF classes, heavy use of crystals as important, spell names, summons, etc. FFXII and FFT have the FF feel too in that regard.

Like if you wanna say it doesn't that's your opinion but it's a lot more than "turn based RPG" like you're dumbing it down to.
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no lopen stop we're like 3 posts away from someone arguing ffxii isn't a real final fantasy let me have this
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Trading two nominations for Tiz.
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Braska
Jecht
Auron
Basch
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Trading 1 nom for Basch and 1 nom for Braska
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guffguy89 posted...

Trading 1 nom for Basch and 1 nom for Braska

Basch for Tiz?
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Ok.

Tiz
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4) Basch
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Orlandu

auto trading for Orlandu 3x
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guffguy89 posted...

Trading 1 nom for Basch and 1 nom for Braska

Doctor Cid for Braska?

ps
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