Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 227: Cancel the Politics Topic: 250 B8ers will Die

(+) Yeah! (+)

wow, those comments
---

Hey thanks xp and red Sox for that good discussion on the SCOTUS stuff. It made for a good informative read.
---

https://twitter.com/EricTrump/status/1143593360072085505

retweeted by his father.

maybe we should stop making fun of full throttle. even the president is using the daily mail as a legitimate source!
---

Looks like the Daily Mail is now more credible than the New York Times. Incidentally, I watched clips of Judge Jeanine Pirro on Fox News for the first time. "It's time to shut it down and lock her up." Lots of YouTube comments that she should replace Jeff Sessions as AG.
---

The totally-not-racist soon-to-be CBP director:

https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1143872258814959616
---

LordoftheMorons posted...

The totally-not-racist soon-to-be CBP director:

https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1143872258814959616

bruh
---

/r/the_donald finally quarantined at least:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/reddit-quarantines-pro-trump-subreddit-the_donald-over-anti-police-threats/
---

I've been avoiding calling out Bernie, but this is some Trump-type shit here:

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1143983257815531520

In addition to being false, this is the type of shit that convinces your supporters to end up staying home rather than backing the eventual nominee.
---

How is it false? Some people definitely say that. A lot of Gabbard/Yang people actually even switched from Bernie because they were mad he didn't call out the DNC like this before. I agree it was a bad thing to say, his better point is true though that the media starts the conversation with him from a standpoint of "when obviously you eventually lose what are you gonna do?" And they don't treat other candidates, especially not major candidates, that way. It probably frustrates him, it certainly does me!

Nrrr posted...

How is it false? Some people definitely say that. A lot of Gabbard/Yang people actually even switched from Bernie because they were mad he didn't call out the DNC like this before. I agree it was a bad thing to say, his better point is true though that the media starts the conversation with him from a standpoint of "when obviously you eventually lose what are you gonna do?" And they don't treat other candidates, especially not major candidates, that way. It probably frustrates him, it certainly does me!

This is a very Trumpesque thing, though. "He doesn't mean it that way!" is exactly what I've heard Trump supporters say. I mean I get your point, but I think Bernie really needs play a little better with other Dems right now. And his base does too.

I believe Bernie has the most DNC members endorsing him atm.

(Bernie has 5, Booker 4, Biden and Harris 3, Beto and Pete have 1, and everybody else has none I think unless I've missed someone)
---

i mean, cyclo's right that "some people say he would have been the nominee" is not incorrect. because some people do say that.

if that's "trumpesque," so be it.
---

The difference between Bernie's "some people are saying" and Trump's "some people are saying" is that the only people who are saying what Trump says they are saying are Trump and people he's told to say what he wants them to say.
---

To me the Trumpesque thing about that statement is that it has the effect of riling up his supporters into thinking everyone's against them without actually accusing anyone of being against them.
---

Remember all the hubbub about tax returns? Wonder why people stopped caring about that as soon as Bernie released his, despite the fact that Joe Biden has not release any since 2015.

LordoftheMorons posted...

I've been avoiding calling out Bernie, but this is some Trump-type shit here:

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1143983257815531520

In addition to being false, this is the type of shit that convinces your supporters to end up staying home rather than backing the eventual nominee.

I was coming here to post about the treatment hes getting for this interview, which was god awful by the way, did you watch it?

First of all, Bernie was the very first person to sign the pledge promising to support the winner of the nomination.

Secondly, the interviewer said Some people said you hurt the election in 2016, OF COURSE hes going to respond. Dude, literally nobody campaigned at rallies as a surrogate for Hillary more than Bernie after the DNC. The interviewer is speaking nonsense.

Additionally, she literally asked him about Hickenlooper saying I dont think the future is Socialism by asking him Why dont you think you can accomplish your goals in a Capitalist society?

Bruh, Bernie is a Dem-Soc, he wants a mixed economy, why is this MSNBC interviewer saying this junk?
---

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/video/bernie-sanders-i-intend-to-be-the-democratic-nominee/vi-AADsS02

Listen to the questions she asks, and tell me if you think shell ask questions like this to the other candidates.

LordoftheMorons posted...

In addition to being false, this is the type of shit that convinces your supporters to end up staying home rather than backing the eventual nominee.

Its also NOT false, and literally as valid as Some people say you hurt Hillary, which was said to him by this interviewer.

Tell me im wrong.
---

I wonder if at some point Trump is going to start praising Bernie again, betting on him losing the Democratic nomination and his supporters flocking to Trump again as Trump will be the only one saying nice things about them and their candidate.
---

I've made this point before, but the DNC as an organization took no actions designed to prop up Hillary/hurt Bernie. Is it true that most DNC members probably wanted Clinton to win, and that some of them complained about Bernie in internal emails? Sure, but that doesn't affect votes. Did most superdelegates endorse Clinton? Certainly, but that's just part of the predefined rules of engagement. There was no "rigging" going on whatsoever.
---

did trump ever praise bernie? i thought he called him "crazy bernie" from the start.

yeah, at one point trump did say "i'll look into bernie's minimum wage plan" but to call that "praise" is a stretch.
---

LordoftheMorons posted...

I've made this point before, but the DNC as an organization took no actions designed to prop up Hillary/hurt Bernie. Is it true that most DNC members probably wanted Clinton to win, and that some of them complained about Bernie in internal emails? Sure, but that doesn't affect votes. Did most superdelegates endorse Clinton? Certainly, but that's just part of the predefined rules of engagement. There was no "rigging" going on whatsoever.

good thing bernie didn't say there was rigging going on, then!
---

Oh come the fuck on
Saying "people are saying" X is saying X with a built in denial.
---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

did trump ever praise bernie? i thought he called him "crazy bernie" from the start.

yeah, at one point trump did say "i'll look into bernie's minimum wage plan" but to call that "praise" is a stretch.

He occasionally will have some positive things to say, but almost always in comparison to other democrats (ie: said bernie is smarter than biden), I don't take it to mean any real affection, just a mutual enemy of my enemy strategy.

LordoftheMorons posted...

Oh come the fuck on
Saying "people are saying" X is saying X with a built in denial.

She asked the guy who literally was the first to sign the I will support the nominee Pledge if hed drop out by the DNC, because and this is a quote: Some people say you hurt Hillary Clintons candidacy.

Give us a break, dude.
---

Kasie kinda sucks, like not that far above Chuck Todd for the MSNBC crew... but yes that question is asked to other candidates and now you don't have to get defensive from it- especially now where the obvious go-to answer is "whoever wins we gotta come together against Trump"

LotM is right that "some people are saying" is garbage rhetoric to cowardly spread a populist argument that even you know is too dumb to own up to. It's the conspiracy theorist version of a dogwhistle.
---

LordoftheMorons posted...

Oh come the fuck on
Saying "people are saying" X is saying X with a built in denial.

yeah, but like tony pointed out, he was responding to an interviewer asking questions exactly like that. "some people say you hurt hillary" "some people say socialism" etc. it seems almost like he was pointing out the absurdity of using what 'some people say' as a point worth addressing. why does bernie have to answer for these 'some people say' concerns? its terrible journalism, and its just forming a narrative with deniability, like you said.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

did trump ever praise bernie? i thought he called him "crazy bernie" from the start.

yeah, at one point trump did say "i'll look into bernie's minimum wage plan" but to call that "praise" is a stretch.

Many times, from what I can remember. The most memorable time to me was with the help of a reporter, who quoted him 5 policy positions and asked him to guess which candidate held those positions. And Trump answered himself, and the reporter said, it's Bernie Sanders.

Trump's message on Bernie was very consistent and it was that Bernie's heart and goals were in the right place, but he didn't have the practical skill or business acumen to achieve his goals, while Trump did. But Trump was betting hard on Bernie losing the primary.
---

LordoftheMorons posted...

Oh come the fuck on
Saying "people are saying" X is saying X with a built in denial.

uh ok.

so if i say "people are saying black people suck," i am saying black people suck?
---

more egregious from Kasie today was after the Bernie segment, going on an interview with Republican strategists and their "war room" preparing for the debate about how to attack dems for becoming socialists
---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

Oh come the fuck on
Saying "people are saying" X is saying X with a built in denial.

uh ok.

so if i say "people are saying black people suck," i am saying black people suck?

uhhhh

I really really hope you don't think that statement would fly in any context other than one specifically condemning those people
---

I am baffled when candidates falter so bad on the 'some people say' questions though. Just tell the interviewer "who is saying that? give me a name of who is saying that and i will address it, but otherwise i'd prefer to move on to real concerns and not nebulous gossip"

Pretty sure by now Republicans have called everyone a socialist, including Joe Biden, John Hickenlooper, and John Delaney. Maybe not Marianne Williamson, but only because nobody knows who that is other than an Anti-Vaxer.
---

CelesMyUserName posted...

I really really hope you don't think that statement would fly in any context other than one specifically condemning those people

well yeah, "context matters" is exactly the point i'm making.

if bernie had said "some people are saying i would have been the nominee if the system wasn't rigged... SO FUCK THE DNC!" i wouldn't be defending him.
---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

CelesMyUserName posted...

I really really hope you don't think that statement would fly in any context other than one specifically condemning those people

well yeah, "context matters" is exactly the point i'm making.

if bernie had said "some people are saying i would have been the nominee if the system wasn't rigged... SO FUCK THE DNC!" i wouldn't be defending him.

That's what he should be saying. He should go even further and say "that's why I have refused to join the Democratic Party for 30 years. If elected, I promise to fight for the American people against the Democratic Party." With the core motivation for voting for Trump (to stop the Democrats) gone, millions of Republicans will cross over and vote for Bernie, getting him the Democratic nomination. They'll stick with him in the general because no one really likes Trump except for his 35%.
---

Ashethan posted...

Pretty sure by now Republicans have called everyone a socialist, including Joe Biden, John Hickenlooper, and John Delaney. Maybe not Marianne Williamson, but only because nobody knows who that is other than an Anti-Vaxer.

I recently listened to an interview she gave to Virgil from ChapoTrapHouse and she is like if you crossed Jill Stein and Liz Warren. An absolute hippy crystal grandma but a staunch capitalism defender. The best thing she said was she wants to make a department of peace, an idea Dennis Kucinich used to bring up that I am fully on board with.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

CelesMyUserName posted...

I really really hope you don't think that statement would fly in any context other than one specifically condemning those people

well yeah, "context matters" is exactly the point i'm making.

if bernie had said "some people are saying i would have been the nominee if the system wasn't rigged... SO FUCK THE DNC!" i wouldn't be defending him.

The context of Bernie's statement is absolutely as promotion (using it as a defensive argument as a possibility that these people may be right), not of condemnation. Requiring "SO FUCK THE DNC" removes the entire point of the "people are saying" shtick which is to disassociate yourself from the statements you're trying to put out.

This has been the exact case with Trump saying it a million times over the last few years. Under your argument dogwhistle racism wouldn't be a thing.
---

I don't think the whether or not the interviewer was asking disingenuous questions should prevent Bernie's response from being criticized. I also think that the right way to respond to that question is by actually responding to the question and not by suggesting "well maybe if the system wasn't rigged against me..." (I assert that this is what many people will hear regardless of whether or not it was the intent, which is definitely something that Bernie should realize.)
---

Responding to questions from bs interviews like "some people are saying you have no chance to win, socialism will never happen, and Medicare for all is a pipe dream and so I'm giving you the chance to drop out now, apologize for hurting mother's chances, and endorse a real democrat" is not how you win. His response sucked too, but just answering hostile narrative interviewers questions with the exact response they expect is not a winning formula. Why do you think they are asking those questions? If you say, well, I actually fought very hard for Hillary...okay. They still put the idea out there that you didn't do enough. They got what they wanted. You have to discredit them as hostile, their narrative as partisan and manufactured.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rubycramer/indivisible-2020-pledge

I guess I have to remind you all that Bernie was literally the first person to sign the pledge to support the nominee.

Literally every single candidate is going to say I plan to win when theyre asked this, and she followed it up immediately by accusing him of hurting Hillary.

It was stupid question with a worse addendum.
---

I feel bad for Bernie that he is being forced to endure all these idiotic questions from the media and basically can't speak the truth, openly, because of the custom in the Democratic Party to be civil and not call out other Democrats for the charlatans they are.

In a no-holds barred Republican debate, Bernie would get a chance to speak his mind and make his pitch to the electorate. If I were him I'd seriously consider boycotting the Democratic debates and negotiate a series of policy debates with President Trump. I am confident these debates would get higher ratings (let's be honest- Trump is great at getting ratings).
---

And it would not really be in Trump's interest to agree to those debates insofar as Bernie is his strongest possible opponent, but Trump loves campaigning and debating so much and has such a high opinion of himself that he just might go for it.
---

Like am I sitting here saying Bernies response was perfect?

No.

But when youre asked stupid questions, its hard to give the best answer, and to call him Trumplike while not give a single mention of how AWFUL the interviewer was is exactly why Bernie supporters see him as being treated unfairly.
---

It was a bad question and a bad response

Okay let's move on
---

Red Sox I feel like all your ideas are ignoring Bernie still has to win the Dem primary, most states are closed primaries and those stunts could easily hurt more then help as a result. If he ultimately was planning an independent run, sure. But ultimately, I don't think Bernie feels like he has to win, so much as continue his revolution of getting people involved, moving things left, and inspiring people like AOC to eventually take his place, so he wouldn't be interested in big gambles like your ideas.

There are a lot of people in the Democratic Party who hate Bernie because he is a socialist and he wants to take away their wealth and privileged status in society. They have all sorts of excuses to justify their conduct but at the end of the day, the real reason is simply greed and self-interest.
---

Lets talk more about The_Donald being quarantined, and the irony of a subreddit with No Leftists in their posted rules crying about freeze peach
---

StealThisSheen posted...

It was a bad question and a bad response

Okay let's move on

^

although I do just wanna mention a part we can all agree on that went unnoted

I thought Bernie had a good answer to the socialism argument - focusing on the policies and how they resonate

but Kasie followed it up with the most ridiculous "and you think that can't happen under CAPITALISM?!" retort, like jesus fuck what
---

red sox 777 posted...

There are a lot of people in the Democratic Party who hate Bernie because he is a socialist and he wants to take away their wealth and privileged status in society. They have all sorts of excuses to justify their conduct but at the end of the day, the real reason is simply greed and self-interest.

Also hes a Democratic Socialist. He doesnt want to take away anybodys wealth, he just wants it taxed fairly.
---

CelesMyUserName posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

It was a bad question and a bad response

Okay let's move on

^

although I do just wanna mention a part we can all agree on that went unnoted

I thought Bernie had a good answer to the socialism argument - focusing on the policies and how they resonate

but Kasie followed it up with the most ridiculous "and you think that can't happen under CAPITALISM?!" retort, like jesus fuck

Dude id never heard of this interviewer before, but when she said that I realized she was garbage.
---

Mfw I find out the donald has finally been quarantined despite threatening innocent people for years and only now being quarantined because they got mad at a cop: :|

like I said, she's the slightly less awful Chuck Todd who also has a both-sidesy Sunday show... and also a pretty regular washington correspondent for Morning Joe

but while Katy Tur's on maternity leave she's been filling in a lot for her 2pm slot, soooo more Kasie Hunt for all!
---