Current Events > why is child support even a thing

(+) Yeah! (+)

a guy should be able to file something near the date of conception. An intention of not supporting the kid along with some ammount of money to cover an abortion if necessary.

pathetic topic is pathetic.
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abortons aren't easy. I just learned last night that every time a woman has an abortion, it scrapes at her uterus and leaves scars. and increases the chance for complications in future births. unless a woman knows beyond a doubt that she NEVER wants kids, each abortion is risky and hurts her own health. so guys shoudln't just toss money and say "go have an abortion".

Yes, people should be able to sign a document stating that they will not have to deal with a financial obligation because they don't want to, and can get out of it for a small fee.

wild how pro life people are so ardent in wanting to greatly increase the chances of babies growing up in poverty
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Either the father pays.

Or the tax payer pays.

I choose the father.
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The general idea is so that there's some source of income going towards the child in the event that the parent with custody (most often the mother) can't provide a standard of living above some threshold.

Because if the mother is being forced to carry an unwanted child to term, then the father should have to also accept his responsibility to care for the child at least financially.

NinjaBreakfast posted...

wild how pro life people are so ardent in wanting to greatly increase the chances of babies growing up in poverty

This.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

The general idea is so that

even if you're a piece of shit you still have to financially support the life YOU made.
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NinjaBreakfast posted...

wild how pro life people are so ardent in wanting to greatly increase the chances of babies growing up in poverty

Wait leaving money for an abortion is a pro life thing now?
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To ease the social burden of children without sufficient financial support, obviously.
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CheekSqueak posted...

even if you're a piece of s*** you still have to financially support the life YOU made.

What happens when you never wanted a child to begin with, neither the woman but she then changes her mind? A woman is free to have an abortion without the father have a say. If it is the other way around the man doesn't have a say and has to "pay for the consequences of his actions". For a long time, if need be. Good notion of fairness right there.
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Modifier posted...

CheekSqueak posted...

even if you're a piece of s*** you still have to financially support the life YOU made.

What happens when you never wanted a child to begin with, neither the woman but she then changes her mind? A woman is free to have an abortion without the father have a say. If it is the other way around the man doesn't have a say and has to "pay for the consequences of his actions". For a long time, if need be. Good notion of fairness right there.

don't father kids if you don't want to take care of them. i don't give a shit about your stupid hypotheticals mod.
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CheekSqueak posted...

don't father kids if you don't want to take care of them.

Shouldn't that hold true for the woman as well? But she gets to choose. The man doesnt.
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Modifier posted...

CheekSqueak posted...

even if you're a piece of s*** you still have to financially support the life YOU made.

What happens when you never wanted a child to begin with, neither the woman but she then changes her mind? A woman is free to have an abortion without the father have a say. If it is the other way around the man doesn't have a say and has to "pay for the consequences of his actions". For a long time, if need be. Good notion of fairness right there.

The problem is the two things aren't related.

In the case of abortion, the mother has a right to her own body. No human can take from another human's body without permission. Therefore, if the mother doesn't want the fetus inside her (which is taking from her body), then she has a right to remove it.

In the case of child support, after the child is born, it needs to be taken care of. To that end, we place the burden on the biological parents where possible. If the parents are separated, the mother is typically responsible for the direct care of the child (since she's usually the one who's around), whereas the father is tasked with providing some amount of financial aid to ensure the child's quality of life.

They are two separate issues. You can have a problem with child support (and it may in fact be a system in need of improvement), but it has nothing to do with whether abortion should or should not be permissible or why.

CheekSqueak posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

The general idea is so that

even if you're a piece of shit you still have to financially support the life YOU made.

except men have no choice or input on pregnancy termination.

Its kind of forced on them in a lot of cases.

Many NBA players get tricked and the strippers they bang refuse to get an abortion so they can drain them of their money.

what choice was made exactly, the choice to have sex?

I thought the whole point of abortion was to remove the consequences of sex. Why can only women make that choice?

Dragonblade01 posted...

In the case of child support, after the child is born, it needs to be taken care of.

I thought I was talking before the child is born, of course. Unless you say "oh, if the mother decides she wants the child so the idiot who got to f*** her now has to pay there is nothing that can be donw because the choice is your, not his". Logical and completely fair, right?
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so the dad is a dumbass for having sex with a woman he doesnt trust, but a woman is a victim for having sex with a man she doesnt trust?

Dragonblade01 posted...

it has nothing to do with whether abortion should or should not be permissible or why.

It has because a mother can decide for herself if she wants to care for the child and let it be born (even if the father might have wanted the child to be born and be prepared to raise it on his own) but a man can't decide if s child should be born or not because he is not willing or capable of providing for the child, or even want a child.
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Milkman5 posted...

CheekSqueak posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

The general idea is so that

even if you're a piece of shit you still have to financially support the life YOU made.

except men have no choice or input on pregnancy termination.

Its kind of forced on them in a lot of cases.

Many NBA players get tricked and the strippers they bang refuse to get an abortion so they can drain them of their money.

what choice was made exactly, the choice to have sex?

I thought the whole point of abortion was to remove the consequences of sex. Why can only women make that choice?

don't fuck random hoes. pretty simp. there's also plenty of ways to prevent pregnancy. you're not getting a pass for being an irresponsible dumbass.

Modifier posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

In the case of child support, after the child is born, it needs to be taken care of.

I thought I was talking before the child is born, of course. Unless you say "oh, if the mother decides she wants the child so the idiot who got to f*** her now has to pay there is nothing that can be donw because the choice is your, not his". Logical and completely fair, right?

CheekSqueak posted...

don't father kids if you don't want to take care of them.

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Milkman5 posted...

so the dad is a dumbass for having sex with a woman he doesnt trust, but a woman is a victim for having sex with a man she doesnt trust?

Itr seems that way.
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this is the dumbest topic Ive seen on ce in months, which is really an accomplishment
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Modifier posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

In the case of child support, after the child is born, it needs to be taken care of.

I thought I was talking before the child is born, of course. Unless you say "oh, if the mother decides she wants the child so the idiot who got to f*** her now has to pay there is nothing that can be donw because the choice is your, not his". Logical and completely fair, right?

Child support doesn't apply prior to the birth of the child. And it's entirely logical and fair as long as you understand the concepts involved and don't incorrectly lump them together.

You could say the same thing to women.
Dont fuck random fuckboys.

Its so insanely hypocritical.

Women are always victims and men are a always stupid in the exact same situations

Milkman5 posted...

so the dad is a dumbass for having sex with a woman he doesnt trust, but a woman is a victim for having sex with a man she doesnt trust?

This has nothing to do with dumbasses or victims.

CheekSqueak posted...

don't father kids if you don't want to take care of them.

They'll only be born if the mother so wishes, right? But if the father doesn't wish for the child to be born, he has no say. So, a man can only truly father a child if a woman wishes so.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

Milkman5 posted...

so the dad is a dumbass for having sex with a woman he doesnt trust, but a woman is a victim for having sex with a man she doesnt trust?

This has nothing to do with dumbasses or victims.

CheekSqueak literally just called men who get into unwanted pregnancies dumbasses

Dragonblade01 posted...

And it's entirely logical and fair as long as you understand the concepts involved and don't incorrectly lump them together.

Saying something like that doesn't solve the problem i am raising here.
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well, I do personally think it would be better for us to just have much more robust public assistance programs to help kids that were adequately funded. the child support system can sometimes be very problematic for the kids as it can engender bad blood between their parents for various reasons

but the 'point' of abortion isn't to protect you from the consequences of sex, the point of it is to respect someone's bodily autonomy
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Milkman5 posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Milkman5 posted...

so the dad is a dumbass for having sex with a woman he doesnt trust, but a woman is a victim for having sex with a man she doesnt trust?

This has nothing to do with dumbasses or victims.

CheekSqueak literally just called men who get into unwanted pregnancies dumbasses

irresponsible dumbass. quote me correctly.
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Balrog0 posted...

but the 'point' of abortion isn't to protect you from the consequences of sex

In practice, that is not what happens. Women can use it however they want. Men have to deal with women's decision and pay up. Fair.
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Milkman5 posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Milkman5 posted...

so the dad is a dumbass for having sex with a woman he doesnt trust, but a woman is a victim for having sex with a man she doesnt trust?

This has nothing to do with dumbasses or victims.

CheekSqueak literally just called men who get into unwanted pregnancies dumbasses

And I disagree that that's relevant. It has quite literally nothing to do with why child support is a thing.

Modifier posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

And it's entirely logical and fair as long as you understand the concepts involved and don't incorrectly lump them together.

Saying something like that doesn't solve the problem i am raising here.

What's the problem? Is it that women can have an abortion but men can't get out of child support? Because as I said, those two things have nothing to do with one another. The situations and justifications for each are entirely different. If you think child support isn't fair, then we either need an alternative source of financial support for the child (such as taxpayers) or remove financial support for the child from the equation altogether.

Milkman5 posted...

except men have no choice or input on pregnancy termination.

i agree that this is unfair. women like to argue that the child halfway belongs to the man when it comes to receiving assistance after birth but when it comes down to the topic of keeping the child vs aborting it's more like "MY BODY MY CHOICE." it's like, no, you can't selectively decide when the man has a stake in this child. aborting should be a decision agreed to by both parties. if both parties can't agree the default should be to keep the child and if the woman doesn't want it, she can relinquish custody to the man.

but this does not mean that child support shouldn't be a thing.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

or remove financial support for the child from the equation altogether.

It pains me to say this but if that is the only choice to bring fairness towards men to the table, so be it. If a woman chooses on her own to have the child be born without any say of the man on the matter, so be it. A man shouldn't be forced to pay (for a very long time, if things run naturally) because of a selfish decision on the part of the woman.
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I mean, I'm personally not all that opposed to the notion of publicly funded programs for children. Society taking care of the children within itself doesn't strike me as a radical idea.

Solar_Crimson posted...

Because if the mother is being forced to carry an unwanted child to term, then the father should have to also accept his responsibility to care for the child at least financially.

NinjaBreakfast posted...

wild how pro life people are so ardent in wanting to greatly increase the chances of babies growing up in poverty

This.

Who said anything about being forced to carry? lol
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Look...you're just not gonna win this one. If the father is not around, he's gotta pay. End of story.

However...the current child support system IS fucked up. Women use it either to be lazy or for revenge. Or both. And the way the amounts are decided are crazy. Thankfully I'm not in this position, but I know a couple guys who get absolutely hosed to the point where they cant afford to pay their basic utilities, but the women still call them complaining that the kid needs shoes.

And I'm not saying all women. But a hefty percentage.

jedisamurai posted...

Look...you're just not gonna win this one. If the father is not around, he's gotta pay. End of story.

End of story? Says who? I'm just glad I'm not american. I heard women suck men dry over there.
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I got a vasectomy. Fuck child support.
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Weird TC is going to bitch about child support when he'll never be in a situation for it to matter.
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Don't be a deadbeat dad and it's not an issue.
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As someone who worked in local gov't dealing with child support, the system is set up to do what is financially best for the kid (of course it doesn't always work out this way) and not give two fucks about either parent. I get the silly argument you're trying to make, but if you knew what you were talking about you'd know it makes no sense.
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If it's unacceptable to obligate a woman for nine months, then it's unacceptable to obligate a man for eighteen years.

Questionmarktarius posted...

If it's unacceptable to obligate a woman for nine months, then it's unacceptable to obligate a man for eighteen years.

That does not follow because the two situations are not analogous.

Dragonblade01 posted...

That does not follow because the two situations are not analogous.

Of course not. The latter is much worse than the former.
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Modifier posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

That does not follow because the two situations are not analogous.

Of course not. The latter is much worse than the former.

These two things are so fundamentally different that the only way you could ever lump them together is if you misunderstand either one or both of them at the most basic level.

Dragonblade01 posted...

Modifier posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

That does not follow because the two situations are not analogous.

Of course not. The latter is much worse than the former.

These two things are so fundamentally different that the only way you could ever lump them together is if you misunderstand either one or both of them at the most basic level.

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Child support needs to be on a ebt-type card
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Highwind07 posted...

I agree with it after the child is born but not before it is born.

Problem is, the only one who decides if it will be born or not is the woman. Men have no say on that mater. Basically, the women decide if they want a child so that a man has to pay or not. Fair, right?
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