Board 8 > Umineko playthrough topic 3

(+) Yeah! (+)

Featherine has a theory but won't tell, leaving a mystery hanging yet again. I know I won't get answers this early but it's like she is mocking ME right now. Screw you game.

handsomeboy2012 posted...

Am I supposed to have already figured out SOMETHING at this point in the game?

Also, just to comment on this, before Ep 6 was released, there were iirc two or three reasonable-sounding theories being debated and discussed in the community (down from four or five before Ep 5's release, iirc) one of which was the 'correct' solution. So yes, it's theoretically possible to have solved the game at this point.

However, somebody playing this game alone and who isn't taking time to seriously discuss and theorize (there were a few months between each episode release, so the community as a whole had a ton of time to do this while the series was ongoing. And a playthrough topic where everybody watching is holding their tongue to avoid saying things that could be taken as spoilers does not count as discussion) cannot be reasonably expected to really reach the truth of the mystery. Especially when they're reading it in such a drawn out and disjointed manner as you've wound up doing.

It's like
Featherine/Tohya = Umineko
Ange = People reading it
And I'm those who fail to understand what's going on.

'Featherine' is back to human form again and Ange and Amakusa are talking like nothing unusual has happened. Is this another one of those 'interpretations', where Ange thinks Tohya acts like/resembles a witch and perceives her as Featherine? You know, like how Kinzo appears even if he's dead...

A thought on the nature of the pieces of the game board.

They don't seem to have free will and the game master can make them do anything he wants.
The Ushiromiya family are all pieces. When I rank these characters, I might be judging them based on how the game master presents them. It's probably not entirely fake because these characters should have some sort of 'default personality', but their actions are not their own and in the end I'm not looking at the 'real' Ushiromiyas. I think anything before Rokkenjima isn't part of the game, and episode 1 seems ambiguous on whether everyone is a piece, so at least that part is true?

But what if everything about the family is a fabrication, even their personalities? Then I remembered that Umineko is a game and they're all fictional characters, so if I think too much about whether a character is fake or not... better drop this line of thinking.

Reg posted...

Also, just to comment on this, before Ep 6 was released, there were iirc two or three reasonable-sounding theories being debated and discussed in the community (down from four or five before Ep 5's release, iirc) one of which was the 'correct' solution. So yes, it's theoretically possible to have solved the game at this point.

However, somebody playing this game alone and who isn't taking time to seriously discuss and theorize (there were a few months between each episode release, so the community as a whole had a ton of time to do this while the series was ongoing. And a playthrough topic where everybody watching is holding their tongue to avoid saying things that could be taken as spoilers does not count as discussion) cannot be reasonably expected to really reach the truth of the mystery. Especially when they're reading it in such a drawn out and disjointed manner as you've wound up doing.

Oh I'm not that concerned about having to solve the game myself, early on I resolved not to get stuck in weird places and just go along with the flow. I'm just very interested in how others approached this game and its mysteries.

It wasn't my intention to drag out the playthrough, but it has been hard to find the time among other things in life. Hopefully it isn't driving people away. In any case I will definitely see it through to the end no matter what.

handsomeboy2012 posted...

Oh I'm not that concerned about having to solve the game myself, early on I resolved not to get stuck in weird places and just go along with the flow. I'm just very interested in how others approached this game and its mysteries.

well your question was "should I have figured something out by now"

The answer to that question is "you could've figured out literally everything (except maybe the Epitaph Solution. That one's a bit fucked) by now but it is not a big problem that you haven't, especially considering the circumstances you are reading the game under"

Back to the island we go
With this being just a game, and the family being pieces, whatever happens on Rokkenjima is going to have zero impact on how the main story goes because it's just a tale told by whoever the game master is. Which is kinda sad because I like most of the Ushiromiya family.

What's Battler supposed to do as game master then
All the games before all involve killing the family members but is it part of the rules? I have a hard time imagining Battler doing that to his family.

Kanon confessed his feelings awfully fast. Still not digging this teenage love subplot, and since when did it turn into some competition between Shannon and Kanon? What's with the winning/losing?

That confession came so fast, Kanon was sulking for 5 straight episodes and then does such a drastic change in a matter of days? And those lines about dazzing suns are super cringy, who even confesses like that. Battler's storytelling skills aren't very good.

Wonder if 'Beatrice was born because of something related to Battler' is literal or not.
Beatrice has 'lived for a thousand years' while Battler is 18. My guess is that it's supposed to mean Battler caused such an change for Beatrice that it's like she was born again?

I know that time is relative to the observer but 6 years becoming 1000 years is way too much. Unless you live right next to a black hole.

Beatrice was born without any memories.
They're also assuming that Beatrice was 'born' six years ago in the same state, became the Beatrice we know in six years and died.
But I know Beatrice did exist more than six years ago. Kinzo did something that made her be 'born' again without memories, then she died, and the normal Beatrice returned.
I'm starting to think this being born -> learning magic and gaining a personality -> death -> reborn cycle has happened many times already, even before Kinzo.
To go further, since Beatrice is the 'personification of game rules', these games, whatever they were about, has gone on for a much longer time.

I'm always talking as if I believe magic is certainly real in the game. After being told about delusions and how I can be shown false stuff, I'm really not sure anymore.

They're allowing Beatrice to read the library? What happened to observing the game huh

Ok I see how this game will go, Battler lays out the mysteries and Erika is going to try solving them.
Erika shits on the mystery genre... feels like Umineko's writer is trying to say the whole genre is becoming stale? Can't say I agree, played plenty of great mystery games their few years

Erika is trying her hardest to become even more unlikable than before. According to the character menu, there would be no use of her by the end of the episode, so at least we'd be rid of her soon.

Lowest number of slices to cut a piece of cheese into eight parts.
The answer is 3. I'm glad I am good enough to solve this at the very least.
BUT knowing Umineko, there's going to be some catch and the answer will be smaller.

Bloody knew it's going to be a different answer. Most people would come up with 3 straight away. It would look very stupid if the game spends so much time on explaining a pop quiz for kids.

It would be an embarrassment if I just went 'this is so easy, I know the answer is 3' without considering the possibility of an alternative solution, this game has taught me to be find loopholes.
I imagine there are loads of different ways to solve all those quiz books I read years ago because they never bothered to give specifics.

Next up is the 3 cups and 5 coins problem.
All you have to do is put 2 coins in 2 cups each. Then put a coin in the last cup, and stack that cup into one of the other cups, this is better explained with a pic.... having said that, I'm sure there going to be better answer again.

Lmao she has a chopstick fetish. Now she has a trait that I actually like. Congratulations Erika.

About the unknown person in what seems to be a guest room.
He calls for 'Mom' and 'Dad', my first thought is that it's a family member, but everyone is in the dining room. Maybe it's a red herring and that person is not in the same place/time as the family at all.

Is the scene relevant to how people got killed in a chained guest room?

So no one knows exactly what Beatrice looked like until the picture. This looks important, I try to guess why but got nothing.

The portrait disappeared and there is another Beatrice
Now multiple Beatrices can exist at the same time, how many are there really? What happens when one dies? Is this another illusion? Is my theory about Beatrice having rebirth cycles complete whack already?
Dammit stop making this even more confusing

Oh this is 2+ years ago and that was the past Beatrice. Never mind then.

Beatrice (the elder sister) 'existed even before the rules'
So there should be a point when Beatrice was NOT a personification of the rules, and she only became so later, with the change possibly triggered by whatever Battler did 6 years ago?
Problem is that this elder Beatrice might be from less than 6 years ago.... hmm.

I said before that I couldn't imagine Battler killing his family, pieces or not, but it wouldn't make a very good game is no one dies at all. Someone has to die. Bernkatsel + Erika wants the game to be bloody, problem is Erika is the detective and she can't go around killing people. Which makes me curious how this is all going to work.

I hate it every time they mention 'magic-resisting toxin'. Don't even know why, it just rubs me the wrong way.

Big-sister past Beatrice has never been powerful enough to appear openly before humans or use magic at will.
This doesn't add up to what I know... the story was that Beatrice was a powerful witch -> had a contract with Kinzo giving him gold -> Kinzo traps Beatrice -> different Beatrice was born without memories -> different Beatrice dies -> old Beatrice comes back weakened but does have previous memories.

Battler is considered to be a human. I thought he is no longer one because he's the Endless Sorcerer which is at the same level as Endless Witch, Beatrice held that title too and is definitely NOT a human. What makes a human and what makes a witch? It's not a big deal, I'm probably nitpicking and the game won't bother clear it up anyway, just wish these kinds of things are less opaque

No human can see how the doors and windows are unlocked, so they start to believe it's a witch. Yet another statement that suggests 'magic is fake'. Or 'magic exists depending on whether you want to believe it'.

Let's say Ange is right that Beatrice never existed as an individual, that it was made up from human beliefs and the murders were committed by a human that is taking advantage of the rumors. That would make my 'reincarnating Beatrice' hypothesis totally bogus.

Wait, I think there's a way to make it work. During the games in the earlier episodes, Beatrice was a 'personification of the game rules'; however, Beatrice was shown to indeed exist further past (Rosa saw her) and in the present (with Battler). Instead of a person, Beatrice is in fact a concept - or concepts - that changes depending on the environment and the observers. She is Battler's servant. Before that, the game rules. Even before, the ruler of Rokkenjima. And so on. Each change can be considered a rebirth/reincarnation.

So Beatrice does 'exist'. At least, if you think that intangible things like thoughts and concepts 'exist'.

Maria and Erika, two of my FAVOURITE characters, get into an argument. This is going to be fun.

It shouldn't be possible, by this part is making Erika 10 times more repulsive than she already is. And those random English words is grinding my gears, stop it already.

On the other hand Dlanor gets better with every appearance.

Someone needs to punch Erika in the face, anyone with that kind of behavior has already forfeiting their privileges as a guest.
I've met people like this in real life (not to the same extent as Erika) so I'm getting a bit worked up.

It's kind of hard to tell if George was really saying he regrets his past? 'I'm too gentlemanly that I can't get any girlfriends'. Well I can relate, I almost never had any female friends in my whole life. Now I'm around George's age, he's going to get married and I... uh...

Playing through so many episodes, the scenes before any deaths can be broadly grouped into 2 types: The adults arguing about the inheritance, and the kids' love life.
I vastly prefer the former because their conversations and conflicts are far more interesting. On the other hand everything goes well between George and Shannon and I never liked Jessica paired with Kanon.
This episode is lacking the inheritance part. Not that they matter in the grand scheme of things.

Like this scene of George proposing to Shannon... I've seen it loads of times and almost the same. I mean they do say different things and there's character building here and there. My general feeling is that 'oh it's this scene again' and not 'I wonder what will happen this time'.

As a western witch, Beatrice isn't supposed to be afraid of spirit mirrors or spiderwebs. This mixing of legends is more evidence that Beatrice exists not as a 'self', but whatever people perceive her to be like.

The elder Beatrice is born from the mixture of the stories evil spirits and Kinzo's legend of the Golden Witch. She afraid of spiderwebs and scorpion charms - because those the source material said so, and when people believe in Beatrice, she will have exactly with those features, as the 'ruler of Rokkenjima'. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Meanwhile, the younger Beatrice is no longer the 'ruler of Rokkenjima', and do not have those associated traits at all. A single, final form Beatrice doesn't exist at all.

I feel this is one of my best theories to date. Would be immensely proud if it is somewhat true.

It's the person in the guest room again. I don't think there is any way I can deduce who that is or what is happening here.

There's a laugh that sounds quite like Bernkatsel. But I don't think she has laughed that way before.

Now I'm slightly more on board with this changed Kanon, it would be much more believable if Jessica liked her after the change. And no, 'it just happened without much reason' doesn't convince at all.

I had hoped Ange she would interact more with Battler, or do more cool shit like jumping off buildings similar to episode 4. Now all she does is sit around being a narrator. I appreciate her insights on how things can work without magic but that's not why I wanted her back.

The brooch given to Shannon by Beatrice is likely not really an object but something non-physical. It's the power of DETERMINATION

So it's something that isn't needed for love but needed for a marriage. I know, it's obviously a property, a job, and knowing how to raise kids (that's what George wants anyway). Yep, the brooch is actually made from one of the gold bars that cold be sold for some million yen!

Jokes aside, I don't exactly get this part.

How many times have the adults even appeared in this episode? First it was when they arrived on the ship, and then during dinner. That's it. Most of the time (on the island) is just about the romance. Reminds me a lot about episode 2 which is at the bottom of my rankings.

It has been a very calm episode so far, which isn't bad, got me thinking a lot. Hope things pick up soon though.

Battler has become a moody prick because his wants a waifu and got a daughter instead.
Can't say I'm too impressed either, good thing Kumasawa's (or Virgilia??) there to tell him off.

Pieces don't have to obey the game master, they only have an assigned role, so the family's actions are of their own will and they are not empty shells. It's a bit confusing to call them pieces because it made me think they were like chess pieces that can be moved freely.

The role of 'devoting herself to Battler' was in fact assigned by game master-Beatrice when she created the piece-Beatrice, and that role is the same for all the games no matter who is the game master. Then in all the previous games... where piece-Beatrice was killing the Ushiromiya family, or chaining Battler let a pet and having demons eat him.... are all acts of devotion?? Does Beatrice think Battler is a masochist?