Board 8 > Umineko playthrough topic 3

(+) Yeah! (+)

i'm sure my topic archive is relatively easy to pinpoint where chapter 5 ends and chapter 6 begins.

let's see

yeah, chapter 5 ends on topic 5, page 9

there's a big post with "character rankings" bolded partway down

and then chapter 6 starts right after that

and yes, bernkastel placed 40th out of 40

Up

up

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26. Kumasawa
I struggle to find anything to comment about her.

25. Nanjo
Is he the only one besides Battler who has never died in the 1st twilight?

24. Erika
Pretty much what I hated about Bernkatsel can be applied to Erika because she's an extension/double/stand-in/whatever. That is not to say she doesn't have her unique traits, but I don't think it was nearly enough change my opinion that she is little more than a wannabe Bernkatsel. Still she gets a bit higher in rank because 1. There is no Erika in past episode to compare with and 2. it pleases me to no end to see her completely lose it and beg for mercy when she her detective work fails.

Another thing I dislike is how she hogged all the attention on Rokkenjima, but I'll get to that in the episode rankings.

Kumasawa about 20 spots too low

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23. Maria
I'm just going to give the same relative position to these people, because they either died at the start

22. Genji
Or are so irrelevant this episode I honestly can't remember what they did.

21. Kanon
Maybe this is just an excuse for my laziness

20. Gouda
Either way they're not getting any higher than this.

19. Sakutarou
Doesn't help if you don't show your face, not even once.

18. Lambdadelta
Oh look, it's a evil asshole witch doing evil things. What's that? She ran the Natsuhi trial (by her usual standards) somewhat fairly and didn't act like a sore loser when it looked like she isn't getting an eternal draw?

She's so... inoffensive now compared to Bernkatsel. I'm probably going to regret this rank when she makes more horrible faces and does some horrible shit next episode.

17. Gaap
The least interesting of the supernatural characters that aren't a group. Love or hate them, at least the others had a meaningful role or interactions with Battler. Gaap only the other hand only had a fight with George last episode and only made some holes in this one.

Now I think I am ranking her too high but I'm not changing it.

16. Virgilia
She's not that bad, relatively speaking (as if morality means anything to these magical beings in Umineko). Pretty useful and has her moments but a bit bland otherwise.

15. Shannon
I kind of forgot she even existed in this episode. Even the ones who died in the first twilight have been more memorable, for some reason.

14. Krauss
Beneath the pretentiousness is a doofus who falls for the stupidest scams imaginable and needed his wife to bail him out. It's hilarious and sad and made him grow on me a bit more(?)

Problem is that he got totally upstaged by Natsuhi. At first I thought maybe he gets some focus this episode but it turns out he's there to be a contrast to Natushi and just.... disappears then dies without much fanfare.

13. Geroge
Alright, after thinking it through I have to admit I greatly overrated him in the last ranking. He had a really great moment in ep 4, otherwise an ok character.

12. Rosa
Hitting children bad
Sorry, I don't have much of an impression on her for this episode.

11. Eva
Same as above.

10. Hideyoshi
Nothing much to say here

9. Ange
Im dropping Ange a bit because I am mad at the game for making me care a lot about a character and then killing her like that and not letting her show up in a whole episode. She better be in episode 6. Or else.

8. Jessica
Looks like most of the characters dont move much from the last ranking...

7. Rudolf
All this teasing about him thinking he was going to die, or wanting to talk about Battlers birth, and some other stuff I couldnt remember throughout the game... then he manages to not die early this episode but didnt do anything noteworthy. Really hope he gets attention soon because I like him quite a bit and its getting harder to justify keeping him high in rank...

6. Kyrie
She always has something interesting to say. I didnt mention it last episode but I particularly enjoyed her cornering Natsuhi and Krauss on the Kinzo situation. She didnt shine much in this one though thanks to Erika and Battler doing most of the detective work.

5. Beatrice
I'm not very sure how to talk about Beatrice this time, obviously she is always a fun and intriguing character and I can't figure her out. First there is the piece Beatrice which isn't really Beatrice but should count as her right? Think it's the first time she was truly on 'your side'. Was willing to go very far for the sake of Natsuhi and put herself in danger (pretty much sacrificing herself so they others could leave). The real one though almost didn't speak before disappearing.

Tbh I'm still quite confused about her and thus not willing to put her any higher than this until there is more information.

4. Battler
A slight complaint I have is that he seems to have gotten a bit worse in figuring things out and got played around by Bern and Lambda. Though it's quite understandable seeing he's put in an entirely new environment with totally unfair. Also it feels like that gold truth or sword came out of nowhere to completely turn it around, it doesn't feel like Battler 'won' from his own merit like in episode 4 because I didn't get to know what he understood.

Wow I wrote lots of negatives. It's just that I don't have a lot to add about why he is still high ranked.

3. Dlanor
IMO the most developed out of all the non-human characters, and it . Well Evatrice is developed too, but I hate her. Oh and I don't hate Beatrice, but there's a lot of mysteries around her. Dlanor has only appeared this episode and already has a well defined background, motivations and personality; I really like what she stands for, she has some great scenes, and the design is nice. Not to mention she does not throw tantrums upon losing, unlike Erika.

2. Ronove
Immediately I have to eat my words because I don't know THAT much about him compared to Dlanor. Whatever, he's awesome and is probably going to stay near the top.

1. Natsuhi
Well the others never stood a chance. Just when I thought she is starting to fade into the background she gets an entire episode to herself. Basically the same comments as way back in episode 1 but several times better + being smart + some of tragedy thrown in.

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To anyone still following this - sorry that it took me so long to get through this, I have a lot on my plate lately. The rankings are also kinda scuffed because it was months ago and I start to forget the details.

Anyway I'm finally back, Episode 6 should begin this weekend!

still following =)

i said the same exact thing about natsuhi - i felt bad for letting her drop just because she didn't get focus in eps 2 to 4

Almost forgot to rate the whole episode. Keeping it short because I'm lazy.

+ Natsuhi
+ Has something like a detective story at times
+ Court part was fun
+ Some cool battles

- Bernkatsel
- Sucks that Erika is the detective
- The supernatural characters get so much attention while almost all the humans are pushed aside
- No clear resolution on Rokkenjima

Ranking
3 > 4 > 5 > 1 > 2

I debated a lot between 4 and 5, they're very close. It also felt difficult to rank 5 in general. Would like to hear others' thoughts on this episode.

iirc that ranking is as close to a consensus on the first five episodes as you're going to get from the Umineko community

down with a fever. Wont be playing these few days

It's been a long time. Finally, I can start episode 6.
Battler is the game master. I have no idea where this is going, just going to keep enjoying the ride.

Right off the bat it's some sort of wedding ceremony. There's a demon that looks like a female but has a male voice... of course there is.

ffs there is Bernkatsel and Erika, two people who I want to see the least. Here's hoping that they don't completely dominate this episode like they did in the last.

I read through the character logs and it looks like the point of this game is for BATTLER to successfully host a game and then end it peacefully while Bern is trying to ruin it. Dunno why Battler has to do it, or what the game is supposed to be about anymore but I imagine it's not going to end well when there's still 2 more episodes after this...

Battler's new cloak looks a bit tacky... liked his outfit better without it.
I think that character in the logo has to be battler with the cloak then.

Am I getting dropped in a scene in the middle of the episode again. Where Battler gets his ass kicked again (even with powers) by Erika/Bern in front of everyone, gets a revelation out of nowhere and beats them back again with some magic? If this happens it's going to be a carbon copy of Episode 5's general structure. I don't think it's going to be the case though. At least I hope not.

Someone is trapped in a room in the mansion. Guess this was the locked them they were talking about earlier

Ange is back YESSSSSSSSSSSS

Can't be happier about this. Not only is Ange a great character wbut I think she and her story in 1996 holds a lot of important clues about what happened on Rokkenjima (I don't really believe the Beatrice killed them all with magic narrative anymore), so maybe I can actually figure something out this time around. Some time away from Erika and Bern and demons and shit is also nice,

I don't know how Ange went from being cut into pieces of meat to here, she doesn't know either and is passing it off as some dream. Doesn't matter either way, 11/10 highest ranked episode right here wooo

iirc, the relatives of those who died on Rokkenjima received mail that directly them to some gold in the bank. There's also the mystery of the message in a bottle, and episode 3-Eva's role in this. Maybe some of you can give me a refresher on some of the key points back then because it's been so long.

Even the people outside the Ushiromiya family get silly names. Imagine getting called '18 to the power 8' or something like that.

I misread 'Message Bottle Forger' as 'Message Bottle Forager' and for a while thought Hachijo is part of a group that goes around beaches looking for message bottles.

Uhhhh what
This woman wrote Banquet Alliance and End of the Golden Witch. So episode 3-5 are just fanfictions and I spent hours reading a story within a story?
No way. This would be a pretty crazy twist, not to mention it's hard to believe she wrote about Ange in 1998, Ange ought to have remembered what she was doing earlier...

Most of episodes 3-5 being some random woman's stories isn't too out of the question. It's certainly way more believable than magic. Still this does not explain about episodes 1-2, and feels way too convenient.

Meanwhile Ange gets memories of episode 4, where she never manged to meet the Forger. Or should I call these premonitions because she knows what would happen afterwards?

Few theories I could come up with:
-Ange traveled back in time
-This is a parallel universe and Ange has a vague idea of another parallel universe (zero escape cough)
-Magic
-Just some Umineko fuckery and it turns out to be nothing unusual

Hachijo wrote the stories. She kills and revives the Ushiromiyas multiple times like a witch. And now she pulls out Dawn of the Golden Witch. I think she's probably not human. Who could it be? Bern? Lambda? Yet another weird new character?

Of course it's another witch I never met before. And with poor fashion sense as always. Is that a kimono? And a halo? What's with that medal?
She's just an observer. I doubt it's going to be that simple, otherwise she wouldn't be introduced to begin with.
Also ALL my brainstorming over 'why Ange is here and has strange memories' is solved instantly. Can't believe I wasted my time on this.

We have witches of 'Endless', 'Miracles', 'Certainty', 'Origins'. All very abstract.
Then this one has a name longer than a single word and is a witch of... Theatergoing. How mundane. Maybe there are witches of every single little thing. Like Eating or Drinking or Walking.
The Tips from episode 4 said there are three levels or witches, this one should be of the highest level. I uninstalled Question arcs to save disk space and don't remember what that level is called, Witch < Wanderer(?) < ??? so I would appreciate it if someone can remind me

The 6th game has Battler in Beatrice's usual place, and Erika in Battler's.
This would be very interesting but I do not appreciate I got shown what seems to be the end/nearly the end result of Battler losing. I just don't like retrospective story telling, kind of kills the uncertainty.

The new Beatrice is completely innocent, has no memories of the real one, sees Battler like a Father, and is told to stay in a room
It's almost the same as what Kinzo did to Beatrice years ago. Like grandfather like grandson.
...
I called Kinzo a creep for doing that.

Sakutarou is a piece on Maria's game board
If I interpret the 'game board' as Maria's imagination
What does it say about Beatrice's game and the pieces that are the Ushiromiya family? Hmm

Beatrice died because she lost interest and gave up in her own game. At least I know why she just died then.
Witches setting up games like this is suicidal then because there's always a chance they'd die from boredom. Beatrice had her reason of 'showing Battler something' to do this, but this is some fancy way to kill yourself. Maybe witches aren't able to commit suicide conventionally which is why they had to go this far...

Beatrice's true form has already been revealed episode 1... as an incarnation of a rule?
I'm feeling so out of the loop right now.
Something I was meaning to ask. Am I supposed to have already figured out SOMETHING at this point in the game? Something very obvious that most people already 'get it', but I didn't? I don't mind knowing 'did I miss something' (unless I'm not supposed to know even that) but don't go into anything specific.

eh. not really? game's confusing.

Just want to make sure Im not being especially stupid here

The 'incarnation of a rule' thing is something that is fairly easy for a reader to not understand, even if they 'know' (whether they fully realize it or not) what the rule in question is.

Well this is convenient foreshadowing that Battler will run into a logic error and collapse his game. Which means it's going to end inconclusively again. Bah

Battler commit a sin 6 years ago.
This caused Beatrice to start the killings on Rokkenjima in 1986.
Battler found out what he did 6 years ago at the end of the 5th game. The 'truth' then was 'what happened 6 years ago'. Can't believe I didn't guess that, seems so obvious now.
Like Featherine said, Battler was awfully friendly and apologetic. My theory is that Battler didn't do anything especially evil, but it somehow forced Beatrice into starting those games out of necessity - as evidenced by her not enjoying the killings, and wanting Battler to find out the truth through the game. Perhaps Battler finding out what he did is key to ending this whole mess.