Board 8 > Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1310

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Yuri_LowelI
11/27/18 12:46:37 PM
#151:


ZeldaTPLink posted...
Like MM seems like a strong candidate for weakest N9er right now.


Sonic imo still is. But its between these two.
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Lopen
11/27/18 12:55:58 PM
#152:


charmander6000 posted...
Mega Man SFFing Yoshi proves nothing


It proves he can SFF the dude Pikachu couldn't really freakin hard when firing on all cylinders.

If he was as strong as normal he should be able to SFF Pikachu too. Pokemon isn't immune to SFF.
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CaptainOfCrush
11/27/18 12:58:29 PM
#153:


There are probably some inter-N9 sureties (I can't imagine Mario losing to Sonic/Mega Man/Samus, for example), but apart from that, we may be near a point where everyone not named Link can lose to some beefed up entrant outside the N9. After seeing today's results, even someone staunchly in Snake's corner must admit that Zelda at least has a chance... and if she upends Snake, what makes the non-Nintendo N9 safe?
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ZeldaTPLink
11/27/18 12:58:35 PM
#154:


Yuri_LowelI posted...
ZeldaTPLink posted...
Like MM seems like a strong candidate for weakest N9er right now.


Sonic imo still is. But its between these two.


Sonic could have a boost due to recent series ressurgence. Other Sonic chars have pointed to that.

Right now I could see Sonic beating Snake and not be very surprised.
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KamikazePotato
11/27/18 1:00:11 PM
#155:


For the record, 2013 Mega Man is projected to do worse on 2013 Scorpion/Zero than Pikachu got. And 2013 MM is like #6 overall in those stats. Pikachu has been beastly this year.
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HaRRicH
11/27/18 1:01:37 PM
#156:


Both of these characters had new games that recently released, but I feel pretty sure the Let's Go-Pokemon games bring more people here than Mega Man 11 and we have seen new Pokemon releases help Pokemon in the past. Mega Man could have dropped, but I'm not ready to say that's more likely than Pikachu boosting.

Also as a sidenote with estimations, if Mega Man >= MMX and Luigi >= Yoshi, Pikachu is still expected to be even with Mega Man or even favored to win this match. In hindsight, this probably should have been predicted better after having just seen Pikachu > Yoshi and Tifa > Luigi.
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Yuri_LowelI
11/27/18 1:01:49 PM
#157:


Lopen posted...
charmander6000 posted...
Mega Man SFFing Yoshi proves nothing


It proves he can SFF the dude Pikachu couldn't really freakin hard when firing on all cylinders.

If he was as strong as normal he should be able to SFF Pikachu too. Pokemon isn't immune to SFF.


Actually it is. More so than others.

Also MM and Pokemon isnt exactly SFF is it.

Pokemon came about in the late 90s which wasnt part of the SNES generation to which MM gets 95% of his popularity from.

I hate when people keep labelling things SFF for no reason. Everything has some form of SFF.

You can be a fan of ffvii and Zelda and it will be Sff to some degree.

Pokemon has its own fan base. Yes its nine do dominant but its not a Nintendo console dominant franchise. Its a handheld one. Many people who dont care about Nintendo consoles still bought Nintendo handhelds. The game boy advance sold a lot more than the n64 and cube combined.
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KamikazePotato
11/27/18 1:01:55 PM
#158:


CaptainOfCrush posted...
There are probably some inter-N9 sureties (I can't imagine Mario losing to Sonic/Mega Man/Samus, for example), but apart from that, we may be near a point where everyone not named Link can lose to some beefed up entrant outside the N9. After seeing today's results, even someone staunchly in Snake's corner must admit that Zelda at least has a chance... and if she upends Snake, what makes the non-Nintendo N9 safe?

On this note:

Zelda should be called the legitimate favorite against Sonic after today.
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Lopen
11/27/18 1:02:36 PM
#159:


HaRRicH posted...
Mega Man >= MMX


This is where we disagree. (It should be a straight > symbol no >= there)
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Yuri_LowelI
11/27/18 1:02:45 PM
#160:


ZeldaTPLink posted...
Yuri_LowelI posted...
ZeldaTPLink posted...
Like MM seems like a strong candidate for weakest N9er right now.


Sonic imo still is. But its between these two.


Sonic could have a boost due to recent series ressurgence. Other Sonic chars have pointed to that.

Right now I could see Sonic beating Snake and not be very surprised.


I would be. And the thought of that is depressing so lets not entertain that thought.
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tennisboy213
11/27/18 1:06:23 PM
#161:


Pikachu by the hour:
time | percent | gain/loss | lead/deficit
20:00 | 49.16% | -58 | -58
21:00 | 48.83% | -59 | -117
22:00 | 48.58% | -57 | -174
23:00 | 48.93% | -36 | -210
00:00 | 49.74% | -8 | -218
01:00 | 52.60% | +77 | -141
02:00 | 50.47% | +15 | -126
03:00 | 56.42% | +120 | -6
04:00 | 52.16% | +35 | +29
05:00 | 50.07% | +1 | +30
06:00 | 51.98% | +28 | +58
07:00 | 52.99% | +45 | +103
08:00 | 47.44% | -47 | +56
09:00 | 47.53% | -47 | +9
10:00 | 48.66% | -29 | -20
11:00 | 48.28% | -37 | -57
12:00 | 48.06% | -42 | -99
13:00 | 47.76% | -40 | -139
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Haste_2
11/27/18 1:06:49 PM
#162:


I can't help but wonder if Crono is going to beat Bowser worse than he did in 2006. Bowser is probably as strong as he's ever been, but Frog and possibly Magus have looked as strong as they've ever been, too (excluding the two fraudulent performances).
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charmander6000
11/27/18 1:09:19 PM
#163:


Lopen posted...
charmander6000 posted...
Mega Man SFFing Yoshi proves nothing


It proves he can SFF the dude Pikachu couldn't really freakin hard when firing on all cylinders.

If he was as strong as normal he should be able to SFF Pikachu too. Pokemon isn't immune to SFF.


When was Pokemon SFF'd? It's well known that Pokemon avoids SFF quite well.
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ZeldaTPLink
11/27/18 1:10:15 PM
#164:


"SFF" should join "fraud" as a word that needs to be used less.
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Link versus Cloud
11/27/18 1:10:56 PM
#165:


CaptainOfCrush posted...
There are probably some inter-N9 sureties (I can't imagine Mario losing to Sonic/Mega Man/Samus, for example), but apart from that, we may be near a point where everyone not named Link can lose to some beefed up entrant outside the N9. After seeing today's results, even someone staunchly in Snake's corner must admit that Zelda at least has a chance... and if she upends Snake, what makes the non-Nintendo N9 safe?


Unless Snake has dropped a ton, he should still be safe from Zelda. Sonic on the other hand is susceptible to Zelda in losers IMO.

I think in 1v1 24 hours Link/Mario/Samus/Snake/Cloud are not losing outside of the N9.
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hombad46
11/27/18 1:11:00 PM
#166:


ZeldaTPLink posted...
"SFF" should join "fraud" as a word that needs to be used less.

Same Fraud Factor
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Lopen
11/27/18 1:13:52 PM
#167:


Pokemon avoids being SFFed by avoiding the guys that can do it to them and by having weird ass momentum/rallies when they can be in the case of Charizard and Mewtwo.

Compare Pikachu's runs in 2007 and 2008 before and after he meets Nintendo characters and watch him tumble to the bottom of the pecking order pretty hard despite outperforming others like Luigi in that contest. Saying Pikachu is immune is incorrect.
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KamikazePotato
11/27/18 1:14:06 PM
#168:


Actually, yeah, let's get all lol x-stats for a sec.

2018 Pikachu vs. 2018 Scorpion: 66.41%

Mega Man (2013c) has a strength of 41.83 against Base Link.
Scorpion (2013c) has a strength of 28.71 against Base Link.
Mega Man wins with 65.68% of the vote!

2018 Pikachu vs. 2018 Yoshi: 54.8%

Mega Man (2013c) has a strength of 41.83 against Base Link.
Yoshi (2013c) has a strength of 36.58 against Base Link.
Mega Man wins with 56.28% of the vote!

2018 Pikachu vs. 2018 Zero: 56.56%

Mega Man (2013c) has a strength of 41.83 against Base Link.
Zero (2013c) has a strength of 36.55 against Base Link.
Mega Man wins with 56.31% of the vote!

That's not a weak Mega Man iteration either. He's ranked #5 overall.

There is no existing stats that suggests Mega Man was going to walk all over Pikachu unless you were counting on SFF. Pikachu is strong. Very strong. We still have the mental block of the Noble 9 being king, but they have competition these days.

Speaking of which:

2018 Zelda vs 2018 Aeris: 62.19%

Sonic (2013c) has a strength of 41.30 against Base Link.
Aeris (2013c) has a strength of 31.01 against Base Link.
Sonic wins with 62.46% of the vote!

Good luck, Sonic.
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KamikazePotato
11/27/18 1:16:32 PM
#169:


Lopen posted...
Pokemon avoids being SFFed by avoiding the guys that can do it to them and by having weird ass momentum/rallies when they can be in the case of Charizard and Mewtwo.

Compare Pikachu's runs in 2007 and 2008 before and after he meets Nintendo characters and watch him tumble to the bottom of the pecking order pretty hard despite outperforming others like Luigi in that contest. Saying Pikachu is immune is incorrect.


Pikachu was much weaker than he was in 2007/8 than he is now.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/2906-division-6-round-2-pikachu-tidus-leon-vivi
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3283-division-4-round-2-alucard-falcon-pikachu-arthas

Neither of those are "I'm gonna go ahead and challenge a Noble Nine" level.
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XIII_rocks
11/27/18 1:19:20 PM
#170:


Yeah Pokemon boosted wildly in part because it seemd to become cool again right around the turn of the decade, probably peaking with the release of BW or maybe BW2?

Pokemon wasn't "cool again" in 2008 imo
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KamikazePotato
11/27/18 1:20:02 PM
#171:


Here's one last one:

2018 Zelda vs. 2018 Ramza: 73.94%

Sonic (2013c) has a strength of 41.30 against Base Link.
Ramza (2013c) has a strength of 23.40 against Base Link.
Sonic wins with 71.67% of the vote!

Good luck, Sonic.
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Lopen
11/27/18 1:21:02 PM
#172:


I'm not saying he was at this level then. I am saying that Pikachu wasn't weak then and he got stomped into the dirt by guys like Luigi who looked on par with him then.

I'm saying the idea that Pokemon can't be SFFed is a myth. It just gets artificial boosts to mask those situations and soft Nintendo paths. There have been instances of it occurring even after Pokemon became relevant on this site though.
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KamikazePotato
11/27/18 1:23:28 PM
#173:


Pikachu only looked on par with Luigi that year in the match against Leon/Dante that was a 'sprite' round, where they got these super-zoomed versions of ugly 3D renders while Pikachu got a nostalgic Pokemon R/B/Y sprite. Every other match he looked much weaker.
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KamikazePotato
11/27/18 1:24:43 PM
#174:


Seriously:

http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/gallery/albums/cb6/cb6-54.jpg

One of the best pic imbalances we have ever had, in any match.
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Nanis23
11/27/18 1:26:43 PM
#175:


KamikazePotato posted...
Seriously:

http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/gallery/albums/cb6/cb6-54.jpg

One of the best pic imbalances we have ever had, in any match.

Hahahahahaha what the fuck
Sprite rounds were a mistake
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charmander6000
11/27/18 1:28:54 PM
#176:


Lopen posted...
Pokemon avoids being SFFed by avoiding the guys that can do it to them and by having weird ass momentum/rallies when they can be in the case of Charizard and Mewtwo.

Compare Pikachu's runs in 2007 and 2008 before and after he meets Nintendo characters and watch him tumble to the bottom of the pecking order pretty hard despite outperforming others like Luigi in that contest. Saying Pikachu is immune is incorrect.


I think you are confusing SFF with LFF. Pikachu got 44.13% against Luigi and 37.49% against Samus, that's hardly SFF.
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HaRRicH
11/27/18 1:29:19 PM
#177:


KamikazePotato posted...
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/2906-division-6-round-2-pikachu-tidus-leon-vivi
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3283-division-4-round-2-alucard-falcon-pikachu-arthas

Neither of those are "I'm gonna go ahead and challenge a Noble Nine" level.


Dang, look at Pikachu beating Vivi and Tidus worse than Ganondorf could! And then he disrupted the Plan that next year too, wow!
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Nanis23
11/27/18 1:29:21 PM
#178:


ZeldaTPLink posted...
"SFF" should join "fraud" as a word that needs to be used less.

It's too broad
It can apply to characters from the same game, same series, same company, same fucking console
It isn't wrong by definition...it's just too broad
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Dva69
11/27/18 1:29:42 PM
#179:


KamikazePotato posted...
Here's one last one:

2018 Zelda vs. 2018 Ramza: 73.94%

Sonic (2013c) has a strength of 41.30 against Base Link.
Ramza (2013c) has a strength of 23.40 against Base Link.
Sonic wins with 71.67% of the vote!

Good luck, Sonic.


Get crushed sonic
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charmander6000
11/27/18 1:31:01 PM
#180:


Nanis23 posted...
ZeldaTPLink posted...
"SFF" should join "fraud" as a word that needs to be used less.

It's too broad
It can apply to characters from the same game, same series, same company, same fucking console
It isn't wrong by definition...it's just too broad


This issue is that people forget the "disproportionate" part of SFF.
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Lopen
11/27/18 1:32:55 PM
#181:


charmander6000 posted...
SFF with LFF. Pikachu got 44.13% against Luigi and 37.49% against Samus, that's hardly SFF.


37% on Samus absolutely is when he got like 46% on Crono the round before. Pikachu was actually strong in 2008. 2007, I'll admit maybe a bit mixed and skewed from the sprite round but yeah.
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HaRRicH
11/27/18 1:33:41 PM
#182:


Also, we're missing the real important news today: Epona could maybe break the Noble Nine.

Never forget that Pikachu only barely beat Ike worse than Epona did.
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TsunamiXXVIII
11/27/18 1:37:38 PM
#183:


Yuri_LowelI posted...
The_Ctes posted...
And to think we'll likely get a rematch of this.


Allen made a big mistake on the losers bracket.

Should have shifted the losers top to bottom.

For example loser 1 (ganon) faces loser 8(whoever it is between Mario or Seph)
And work the losers bracket that way so different characters face each other.


I pointed this out as soon as the bracket was released!

CaptainOfCrush posted...
I guess... it closely ties to "worldwide" gaming popularity for Pikachu to be a Top 5-level character. It's just still weird to see it on the site given where he started from.


Doesn't seem weird at all. When things started, Pokmon wasn't "nostalgic" yet. The games hadn't even been out for 4 years in the U.S. Gen III was released between the two contests where Pikachu was fodder.

But since then, nostalgia has taken over, and Nintendo has fostered that by repeatedly remaking old games and by releasing earlier generations first in Pokmon Go. (Actually, appealing to nostalgia has frequently been Nintendo's main strategy. The New Super Mario Bros. series; ALBW and BotW; FE:A; even the announcement that Smash Ultimate would bring back every character that had been in a previous Smash game. Nintendo loves to cater to its loyal longtime fans.
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CaptainOfCrush
11/27/18 1:41:45 PM
#184:


If you were around in the days when Pokemon was getting its ass kicked by Xenogears, then yes, this turnaround would look at least a little jarring.
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TsunamiXXVIII
11/27/18 1:41:52 PM
#185:


charmander6000 posted...
Lopen posted...
Pokemon avoids being SFFed by avoiding the guys that can do it to them and by having weird ass momentum/rallies when they can be in the case of Charizard and Mewtwo.

Compare Pikachu's runs in 2007 and 2008 before and after he meets Nintendo characters and watch him tumble to the bottom of the pecking order pretty hard despite outperforming others like Luigi in that contest. Saying Pikachu is immune is incorrect.


I think you are confusing SFF with LFF. Pikachu got 44.13% against Luigi and 37.49% against Samus, that's hardly SFF.


Yeah, if anything, that's rSFF. Well, based on that era, anyway; with how much Pokmon seems to keep boosting, I wouldn't be surprised if Pikachu is legitimately stronger than Luigi by now.
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charmander6000
11/27/18 1:45:26 PM
#186:


Lopen posted...
charmander6000 posted...
SFF with LFF. Pikachu got 44.13% against Luigi and 37.49% against Samus, that's hardly SFF.


37% on Samus absolutely is when he got like 46% on Crono the round before. Pikachu was actually strong in 2008. 2007, I'll admit maybe a bit mixed and skewed from the sprite round but yeah.


I don't see much of an issue with that. Crono was kind of weak, he let Zero get 47% in 2007 and given that he went even with Vincent in both years, it's doubtful his strength was much different between the two. Heck Link still broke 60% on Crono despite both Mario and Samus being in the poll.
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TsunamiXXVIII
11/27/18 1:45:48 PM
#187:


CaptainOfCrush posted...
If you were around in the days when Pokemon was getting its ass kicked by Xenogears, then yes, this turnaround would look at least a little jarring.


If it were a sudden turnaround, I agree. But it wasn't. Pokmon has been consistently building in strength. (Also, that was GSC that lost to Xenogears. We've had plenty of evidence that nothing post-RBY comes close to RBY and the original 151 in strength.)
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trogita
11/27/18 1:57:54 PM
#188:


The death of FF, MGS, and Sonic as franchises means this contest is going to become NintendoFAQs.

Pikachu > Megaman in the rematch
Bowser > Crono
Zelda > Sonic
Mario > Seph
Samus > Cloud

Link will never be threatened again as non-Nintendo competition disappears.
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WarThaNemesis2
11/27/18 2:01:41 PM
#189:


trogita posted...
The death of FF, MGS, and Sonic as franchises means this contest is going to become NintendoFAQs.

Pikachu > Megaman in the rematch
Bowser > Crono
Zelda > Sonic
Mario > Seph
Samus > Cloud

Link will never be threatened again as non-Nintendo competition disappears.


Link hasn't been threatened by anything other than absurdly massive rallies since 2004.
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Moonroof
11/27/18 2:02:16 PM
#190:


Crono is technically Nintendo. Not that he needs to be to beat Bowser anyway.
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tennisboy213
11/27/18 2:02:46 PM
#191:


Pikachu by the hour:

time | percent | gain/loss | lead/deficit
14:00 | 49.75% | -4 | -143

Pikachu stalled that hour.
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snake_5036
11/27/18 2:07:34 PM
#192:


Ganondorf struggling for his life to keep this above 20%
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ZeldaTPLink
11/27/18 2:13:03 PM
#193:


trogita posted...
The death of FF, MGS, and Sonic as franchises means this contest is going to become NintendoFAQs.

Pikachu > Megaman in the rematch
Bowser > Crono
Zelda > Sonic
Mario > Seph
Samus > Cloud

Link will never be threatened again as non-Nintendo competition disappears.


Aerith and Tifa called, they asked you to look at all the results before making generalizations.
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MasterMoltar
11/27/18 2:17:52 PM
#194:


Nanis23 posted...
KKhfIqT

wow
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Safer_777
11/27/18 2:18:12 PM
#195:


We need only the FF 7 remake now! Or are they in KH 3 too?
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Rexxar500
11/27/18 2:21:06 PM
#196:


Safer_777 posted...
We need only the FF 7 remake now! Or are they in KH 3 too?

Kingdom Hearts 3? Isn't that just an Urban Legend?
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ZeldaTPLink
11/27/18 2:21:16 PM
#197:


It's so easy to call someone an idiot after the result of a match.

I'd like to see people have the balls to do that before the match.
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Dva69
11/27/18 2:35:51 PM
#198:


Rexxar500 posted...
Safer_777 posted...
We need only the FF 7 remake now! Or are they in KH 3 too?

Kingdom Hearts 3? Isn't that just an Urban Legend?


Hopefully
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Lopen
11/27/18 2:37:40 PM
#199:


The distinction a lot of people, usually idiots, don't make, is there are reasons to be wrong other than being an idiot. There are plenty of matches that were thought to be debatable that didn't end up close, or matches that weren't thought to be close that did end up close, but they had reasons to go for what didn't happen. Like if you called Squall vs Zelda as a narrow win for Squall that doesn't make you an idiot that just means things have changed this year. Same is true of Mega Man vs Pikachu here.
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KamikazePotato
11/27/18 2:42:28 PM
#200:


Everyone is a genius after they're certain they're right.
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