Current Events > My biggest problem with universal healthcare is subsidizing bad behavior.

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FLUFFYGERM 11/19/18 12:16:31 AM #1:	Americans are getting fatter. We smoke. We don't spend enough time cooking at home and exercising. We prefer easy alternatives that end up costing us more in the long run. Why should disciplined people subsidize the fatasses and the smokers and the alcoholics? Unless universal healthcare were to come with a mandate that people who participate in the benefits must also participate in regular exercise and proper dieting, it simply would not be sustainable in a population that is huge, growing (in population and also in physical size), lazy and undisciplined. An argument can be made that universal healthcare would prompt healthier outcomes, but I'm not convinced of that. If anything, we've seen that advanced medicine is just used to treat the symptoms of bad decisions. It's just an excuse to keep on making lazy choices, rather than an opportunity to make better choices. Don't want to stop scarfing down Big Macs and Donuts every damn day? Just get a triple bypass surgery and keep on eating your way into the grave! Accessibility to treatment of symptoms does not guarantee that people will change for the better. We know that obesity has become more and more common in the UK too, where there is universal healthcare. https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/24/health/childhood-obesity-state-rates-study/index.html Another argument could be made that universal healthcare would cost me as an individual less than paying higher healthcare costs when I do need the care. But the math does not show that to be true for anyone except the people making median wage or lower, and maybe not even them unless they're really unhealthy and need constant healthcare. The implementation would be immensely expensive and we don't even know if it'd be effective. https://www.mercatus.org/publications/federal-fiscal-policy/costs-national-single-payer-healthcare-system It would be great to fund universal healthcare for a population that is diligent and disciplined and active and highly effective. But right now we'd just be subsidizing the people who refuse to exercise, who refuse to eat properly, who smoke, who drink tons of alcohol, etc. We would be subsidizing the subset of the population that is morbidly obese, that smokes and drinks without limit, etc - the subset that represents a hugely disproportionate amount of yearly healthcare spending. Our best bet is to introduce more competition into the sector and encourage innovations and automation that reduce the costs of doing business in the sector. And to provide positive reinforcement for making healthier choices (which we can do without reprimanding people who make bad choices) --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:912654594] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>Americans are getting fatter. We smoke. We don't spend enough time cooking at home and exercising. We prefer easy alternatives that end up costing us more in the long run. Why should disciplined people subsidize the fatasses and the smokers and the alcoholics? Unless universal healthcare were to come with a mandate that people who participate in the benefits must also participate in regular exercise and proper dieting, it simply would not be sustainable in a population that is huge, growing (in population and also in physical size), lazy and undisciplined. An argument can be made that universal healthcare would prompt healthier outcomes, but I'm not convinced of that. If anything, we've seen that advanced medicine is just used to treat the symptoms of bad decisions. It's just an excuse to keep on making lazy choices, rather than an opportunity to make better choices. Don't want to stop scarfing down Big Macs and Donuts every damn day? Just get a triple bypass surgery and keep on eating your way into the grave! Accessibility to treatment of symptoms does not guarantee that people will change for the better. We know that obesity has become more and more common in the UK too, where there is universal healthcare. https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/24/health/childhood-obesity-state-rates-study/index.html Another argument could be made that universal healthcare would cost me as an individual less than paying higher healthcare costs when I do need the care. But the math does not show that to be true for anyone except the people making median wage or lower, and maybe not even them unless they're really unhealthy and need constant healthcare. The implementation would be immensely expensive and we don't even know if it'd be effective. https://www.mercatus.org/publications/federal-fiscal-policy/costs-national-single-payer-healthcare-system It would be great to fund universal healthcare for a population that is diligent and disciplined and active and highly effective. But right now we'd just be subsidizing the people who refuse to exercise, who refuse to eat properly, who smoke, who drink tons of alcohol, etc. We would be subsidizing the subset of the population that is morbidly obese, that smokes and drinks without limit, etc - the subset that represents a hugely disproportionate amount of yearly healthcare spending. Our best bet is to introduce more competition into the sector and encourage innovations and automation that reduce the costs of doing business in the sector. And to provide positive reinforcement for making healthier choices (which we can do without reprimanding people who make bad choices)</quote> ... 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VipaGTS 11/19/18 12:17:05 AM #2:	Ok --- "I devour urine just like my Portland Trailblazers, with piss poor defense." <cite>VipaGTS posted [p:912654630] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>Ok</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
glitteringfairy 11/19/18 12:18:05 AM #3:	You make a fair point TC --- "How come you can believe in God but not Bigfoot?" V-E-G-Y https://imgur.com/AqR3aeX https://imgur.com/vvuUXpp https://imgur.com/r9xK2NR <cite>glitteringfairy posted [p:912654665] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>You make a fair point TC</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Reis 11/19/18 12:18:39 AM #4:	im not reading all that shit but all i wanna say is fuck fatties <cite>Reis posted [p:912654690] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>im not reading all that shit but all i wanna say is fuck fatties</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 11/19/18 12:19:35 AM #5:	Reis posted... im not reading all that shit but all i wanna say is fuck fatties Morbidly obese fucks and smokers represent something like 30% of our yearly healthcare expenditures. Obesity itself is like 22% last I checked. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:912654733] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>Reis posted...</cite> <quote>im not reading all that shit but all i wanna say is fuck fatties</quote> Morbidly obese fucks and smokers represent something like 30% of our yearly healthcare expenditures. Obesity itself is like 22% last I checked.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Webmaster4531 11/19/18 12:19:50 AM #6:	What a coincidence, that's why free markets don't work. --- Ad Hominem. <cite>Webmaster4531 posted [p:912654748] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>What a coincidence, that's why free markets don't work.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Squall28 11/19/18 12:20:08 AM #7:	Our best bet is finding ways to cut costs. It's ridiculous right now. How is a doctor's visit where they don't do jack $100+? Why is more involved stuff thousands or tens of thousands? --- If you're going through hell, keep going. -Winston Churchill <cite>Squall28 posted [p:912654762] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>Our best bet is finding ways to cut costs. It's ridiculous right now. How is a doctor's visit where they don't do jack $100+? Why is more involved stuff thousands or tens of thousands?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Bio1590 11/19/18 12:20:16 AM #8:	And you typed this all up (after obviously stealing the talking points from somewhere else) and posted it on literal gamefaqs.gamespot.com because... --- https://imgur.com/bbRWLI8 https://imgur.com/A0BErSV https://imgur.com/7fCcfko <cite>Bio1590 posted [p:912654767] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>And you typed this all up (after obviously stealing the talking points from somewhere else) and posted it on literal gamefaqs.gamespot.com because...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 11/19/18 12:22:06 AM #9:	Squall28 posted... Our best bet is finding ways to cut costs. It's ridiculous right now. How is a doctor's visit where they don't do jack $100+? Why is more involved stuff thousands or tens of thousands? Lack of competition, giant hospital administrations skyrocketing the costs because they know insurance companies will pay the costs, giant insurance companies paying the costs because they know they'll recoup the costs if more people sign up for health insurance, etc. It's a vicious cycle of multiple variables. See the book An American Sickness for a pretty interesting read on the phenomenon. We definitely need more data, more transparency in pricing and provider ratings, and more competition. More innovation and automation. More healthy choices being made by people before we become obese alcoholic fat lazy fucks. Etc. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:912654840] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>Squall28 posted...</cite> <quote>Our best bet is finding ways to cut costs. It's ridiculous right now. How is a doctor's visit where they don't do jack $100+? Why is more involved stuff thousands or tens of thousands?</quote> Lack of competition, giant hospital administrations skyrocketing the costs because they know insurance companies will pay the costs, giant insurance companies paying the costs because they know they'll recoup the costs if more people sign up for health insurance, etc. It's a vicious cycle of multiple variables. See the book An American Sickness for a pretty interesting read on the phenomenon. We definitely need more data, more transparency in pricing and provider ratings, and more competition. More innovation and automation. More healthy choices being made by people before we become obese alcoholic fat lazy fucks. Etc.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Muffinz0rz 11/19/18 12:23:54 AM #10:	https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/77198449/912597243 --- Not removing this until Pat Benatar is in Super Smash Bros. (Started 8/31/2010) 2018 NFLB Autumnsim (4-6): https://imgur.com/keaWhP1 <cite>Muffinz0rz posted [p:912654900] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/77198449/912597243</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
YonicBoom 11/19/18 12:25:59 AM #11:	Insurance = increased risk taken overall duh <cite>YonicBoom posted [p:912654973] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>Insurance = increased risk taken overall duh</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LesserFaith 11/19/18 12:28:51 AM #12:	It's also insanely expensive. Yearly healthcare for 330 million people would raise our federal budget by ~3 trillion dollars. For reference our current annual budget is 4.4 trillion dollars. Do we really want to get taxed 3 trillion dollars more? --- <cite>LesserFaith posted [p:912655058] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>It's also insanely expensive. Yearly healthcare for 330 million people would raise our federal budget by ~3 trillion dollars. For reference our current annual budget is 4.4 trillion dollars. Do we really want to get taxed 3 trillion dollars more? ---</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
glitteringfairy 11/19/18 12:30:25 AM #13:	LesserFaith posted... It's also insanely expensive. Yearly healthcare for 330 million people would raise our federal budget by ~3 trillion dollars. For reference our current annual budget is 4.4 trillion dollars. Do we really want to get taxed 3 trillion dollars more? --- That would be about half our paychecks if I'm just guessing --- "How come you can believe in God but not Bigfoot?" V-E-G-Y https://imgur.com/AqR3aeX https://imgur.com/vvuUXpp https://imgur.com/r9xK2NR <cite>glitteringfairy posted [p:912655125] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>LesserFaith posted...</cite> <quote>It's also insanely expensive. Yearly healthcare for 330 million people would raise our federal budget by ~3 trillion dollars. For reference our current annual budget is 4.4 trillion dollars. Do we really want to get taxed 3 trillion dollars more? ---</quote> That would be about half our paychecks if I'm just guessing</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 11/19/18 12:31:44 AM #14:	LesserFaith posted... It's also insanely expensive. Yearly healthcare for 330 million people would raise our federal budget by ~3 trillion dollars. For reference our current annual budget is 4.4 trillion dollars. Do we really want to get taxed 3 trillion dollars more? --- Yeah. If the population was super active and fit and generally healthy, and if we could implement a shit ton of innovation/automation/competition to drive down the prices, I might consider a universal healthcare system more tenable like the highway system or the grid. But as it is right now we'd just be going to work every morning to be the government's bitch for even more days out of the year, just so fatass Joe down the block could gorge himself on deep dish pizza every night with fewer consequences. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:912655178] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>LesserFaith posted...</cite> <quote>It's also insanely expensive. Yearly healthcare for 330 million people would raise our federal budget by ~3 trillion dollars. For reference our current annual budget is 4.4 trillion dollars. Do we really want to get taxed 3 trillion dollars more? ---</quote> Yeah. If the population was super active and fit and generally healthy, and if we could implement a shit ton of innovation/automation/competition to drive down the prices, I might consider a universal healthcare system more tenable like the highway system or the grid. But as it is right now we'd just be going to work every morning to be the government's bitch for even more days out of the year, just so fatass Joe down the block could gorge himself on deep dish pizza every night with fewer consequences.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Squall28 11/19/18 12:32:01 AM #15:	How would you feel if there was a biometric tax credit? Like if you get good health numbers, you pay less taxes (since we'll probably have to pay more if we get universal healthcare). I think we'll be better off with more regulations on costs. I don't know how you are going to "add more competition." It seems like a pretty hard market to get into....especially insurance. Also if they have more regulation on costs, maybe they'll probably get more incentives to find ways to cut down their own individual costs instead of just passing that stuff to customers. --- If you're going through hell, keep going. -Winston Churchill <cite>Squall28 posted [p:912655191] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>How would you feel if there was a biometric tax credit? Like if you get good health numbers, you pay less taxes (since we'll probably have to pay more if we get universal healthcare). I think we'll be better off with more regulations on costs. I don't know how you are going to "add more competition." It seems like a pretty hard market to get into....especially insurance. Also if they have more regulation on costs, maybe they'll probably get more incentives to find ways to cut down their own individual costs instead of just passing that stuff to customers.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
billcom6 11/19/18 12:33:02 AM #16:	whispers You already pay more cause of other people's bad habits. --- //constant loneliness// --- Steam and Fortnite: billcom6 My Teams: The Ohio State Buckeyes, New York Yankees, Buffalo Bills, The CBJ, Cavs <cite>billcom6 posted [p:912655229] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>whispers You already pay more cause of other people's bad habits.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 11/19/18 12:34:24 AM #17:	Squall28 posted... How would you feel if there was a biometric tax credit? Like if you get good health numbers, you pay less taxes (since we'll probably have to pay more if we get universal healthcare). I think we'll be better off with more regulations on costs. I don't know how you are going to "add more competition." It seems like a pretty hard market to get into....especially insurance. Also if they have more regulation on costs, maybe they'll probably get more incentives to find ways to cut down their own individual costs instead of just passing that stuff to customers. I would say that it'd almost be a requirement to have such a thing if the taxpayers were going to foot the bill. Because it wouldn't be fair for someone who exercises to pay more or as much as someone who doesn't give a fuck about their health despite having the means to do so. Like, smokers contribute something like 10% of our yearly healthcare expenditures. That's a huge fucking number for something as disgusting and worthless as smoking. So why the fuck should we have to go to work in order to pay for that? But at the same time, the amount of government reach involved in tracking that data is so massive that it worries me about a dystopian future where government power is abused by evil people (monopolies, fascists, communists, etc). The more ideal scenario would be one where technology advances so much that we can treat most illnesses with machines in the comfort of our own homes. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:912655290] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>Squall28 posted...</cite> <quote>How would you feel if there was a biometric tax credit? Like if you get good health numbers, you pay less taxes (since we'll probably have to pay more if we get universal healthcare). I think we'll be better off with more regulations on costs. I don't know how you are going to "add more competition." It seems like a pretty hard market to get into....especially insurance. Also if they have more regulation on costs, maybe they'll probably get more incentives to find ways to cut down their own individual costs instead of just passing that stuff to customers.</quote> I would say that it'd almost be a requirement to have such a thing if the taxpayers were going to foot the bill. Because it wouldn't be fair for someone who exercises to pay more or as much as someone who doesn't give a fuck about their health despite having the means to do so. Like, smokers contribute something like 10% of our yearly healthcare expenditures. That's a huge fucking number for something as disgusting and worthless as smoking. So why the fuck should we have to go to work in order to pay for that? But at the same time, the amount of government reach involved in tracking that data is so massive that it worries me about a dystopian future where government power is abused by evil people (monopolies, fascists, communists, etc). The more ideal scenario would be one where technology advances so much that we can treat most illnesses with machines in the comfort of our own homes.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 11/19/18 12:35:25 AM #18:	billcom6 posted... whispers You already pay more cause of other people's bad habits. No, I actually don't. If we implemented Bernie's program tomorrow I'd have less income because of it without much if any gains from the healthcare I do use, since it's already relatively inexpensive. At least compared with a lifetime of the massively higher tax rate. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:912655325] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>billcom6 posted...</cite> <quote>whispers You already pay more cause of other people's bad habits.</quote> No, I actually don't. If we implemented Bernie's program tomorrow I'd have less income because of it without much if any gains from the healthcare I do use, since it's already relatively inexpensive. At least compared with a lifetime of the massively higher tax rate.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
uwnim 11/19/18 12:36:56 AM #19:	If we'd do universal health care, we'd need to incentivize the people in charge to stay within their budget. Tie part of their pay to the performance so good results are rewarded and bad ones are punished. We'd also need to look into lowering the actual cost of healthcareFLUFFYGERM posted... We definitely need more data, more transparency in pricing and provider ratings, and more competition. More innovation and automation. More healthy choices being made by people before we become obese alcoholic fat lazy fucks. Etc. Stuff like that could be good. FLUFFYGERM posted... Morbidly obese fucks and smokers represent something like 30% of our yearly healthcare expenditures. Obesity itself is like 22% last I checked. If this is an issue, coming up with a way to get those people to pay more would be a potentially good idea. With current insurances, such things happen. Smoking would be relatively simple, could have a nationwide tax on tobacco products that goes towards funding healthcare. Obesity would be harder to come up with a solution. --- I want a pet Lavos Spawn. [Order of the Cetaceans: Phocoena dioptrica] <cite>uwnim posted [p:912655390] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>If we'd do universal health care, we'd need to incentivize the people in charge to stay within their budget. Tie part of their pay to the performance so good results are rewarded and bad ones are punished. We'd also need to look into lowering the actual cost of healthcare<cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote> We definitely need more data, more transparency in pricing and provider ratings, and more competition. More innovation and automation. More healthy choices being made by people before we become obese alcoholic fat lazy fucks. Etc.</quote> Stuff like that could be good. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote> Morbidly obese fucks and smokers represent something like 30% of our yearly healthcare expenditures. Obesity itself is like 22% last I checked.</quote> If this is an issue, coming up with a way to get those people to pay more would be a potentially good idea. With current insurances, such things happen. Smoking would be relatively simple, could have a nationwide tax on tobacco products that goes towards funding healthcare. Obesity would be harder to come up with a solution.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tyranthraxus 11/19/18 12:38:24 AM #20:	FLUFFYGERM posted... billcom6 posted... whispers You already pay more cause of other people's bad habits. No, I actually don't. If we implemented Bernie's program tomorrow I'd have less income because of it without much if any gains from the healthcare I do use, since it's already relatively inexpensive. At least compared with a lifetime of the massively higher tax rate. No you do. Your premiums are higher than they otherwise would be to offset the cost of people that the insurance company is losing money on. Bernie's plan would just shift your expenses away from premiums into a tax. --- It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha." https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:912655442] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>billcom6 posted...</cite> <quote>whispers You already pay more cause of other people's bad habits.</quote> No, I actually don't. If we implemented Bernie's program tomorrow I'd have less income because of it without much if any gains from the healthcare I do use, since it's already relatively inexpensive. At least compared with a lifetime of the massively higher tax rate.</quote> No you do. Your premiums are higher than they otherwise would be to offset the cost of people that the insurance company is losing money on. Bernie's plan would just shift your expenses away from premiums into a tax.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 11/19/18 12:40:16 AM #21:	Tyranthraxus posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... billcom6 posted... whispers You already pay more cause of other people's bad habits. No, I actually don't. If we implemented Bernie's program tomorrow I'd have less income because of it without much if any gains from the healthcare I do use, since it's already relatively inexpensive. At least compared with a lifetime of the massively higher tax rate. No you do. Your premiums are higher than they otherwise would be to offset the cost of people that the insurance company is losing money on. Bernie's plan would just shift your expenses away from premiums into a tax. I don't have any premiums because my employer pays them. And I could find other jobs that pay most if not all of the premiums. Bernie's plan would literally represent more of my income going to the state. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:912655515] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>Tyranthraxus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>billcom6 posted...</cite> <quote>whispers You already pay more cause of other people's bad habits.</quote> No, I actually don't. If we implemented Bernie's program tomorrow I'd have less income because of it without much if any gains from the healthcare I do use, since it's already relatively inexpensive. At least compared with a lifetime of the massively higher tax rate.</quote> No you do. Your premiums are higher than they otherwise would be to offset the cost of people that the insurance company is losing money on. Bernie's plan would just shift your expenses away from premiums into a tax.</quote> I don't have any premiums because my employer pays them. And I could find other jobs that pay most if not all of the premiums. Bernie's plan would literally represent more of my income going to the state.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
uwnim 11/19/18 12:40:59 AM #22:	Tyranthraxus posted... No you do. Your premiums are higher than they otherwise would be to offset the cost of people that the insurance company is losing money on. Bernie's plan would just shift your expenses away from premiums into a tax. If he gets his plan through his job, then he's probably right. He's paying into a smaller pool that's less likely to have really sick people, so his premiums would be lower than they would be paying into a general population pool. --- I want a pet Lavos Spawn. [Order of the Cetaceans: Phocoena dioptrica] <cite>uwnim posted [p:912655542] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>Tyranthraxus posted...</cite> <quote> No you do. Your premiums are higher than they otherwise would be to offset the cost of people that the insurance company is losing money on. Bernie's plan would just shift your expenses away from premiums into a tax.</quote> If he gets his plan through his job, then he's probably right. He's paying into a smaller pool that's less likely to have really sick people, so his premiums would be lower than they would be paying into a general population pool.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Squall28 11/19/18 12:41:00 AM #23:	FLUFFYGERM posted... But at the same time, the amount of government reach involved in tracking that data is so massive that it worries me about a dystopian future where government power is abused by evil people (monopolies, fascists, communists, etc). The government is already corrupt as shit. You see it all the time with lobbying, and laws passing that don't benefit the average person at all. Of course, it could always be worse, but I don't think the government working with my cholesterol numbers is something I need to be overly worried about. --- If you're going through hell, keep going. -Winston Churchill <cite>Squall28 posted [p:912655544] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>But at the same time, the amount of government reach involved in tracking that data is so massive that it worries me about a dystopian future where government power is abused by evil people (monopolies, fascists, communists, etc).</quote> The government is already corrupt as shit. You see it all the time with lobbying, and laws passing that don't benefit the average person at all. Of course, it could always be worse, but I don't think the government working with my cholesterol numbers is something I need to be overly worried about.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 11/19/18 12:41:30 AM #24:	uwnim posted... If this is an issue, coming up with a way to get those people to pay more would be a potentially good idea. With current insurances, such things happen. Smoking would be relatively simple, could have a nationwide tax on tobacco products that goes towards funding healthcare. Obesity would be harder to come up with a solution. For me, any serious conversation on funding universal healthcare is a non-starter until smoking and obesity are resolved. Let's say 5% of the obese population has a legitimate health issue that makes it hard for them to lose weight. The remaining 25% of that annual health expenditure is so catastrophically high that we shouldn't rush into Bernie's plan to have us subsidize that bullshit with our own labor. That'd be immensely unfair. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:912655567] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>uwnim posted...</cite> <quote>If this is an issue, coming up with a way to get those people to pay more would be a potentially good idea. With current insurances, such things happen. Smoking would be relatively simple, could have a nationwide tax on tobacco products that goes towards funding healthcare. Obesity would be harder to come up with a solution. </quote> For me, any serious conversation on funding universal healthcare is a non-starter until smoking and obesity are resolved. Let's say 5% of the obese population has a legitimate health issue that makes it hard for them to lose weight. The remaining 25% of that annual health expenditure is so catastrophically high that we shouldn't rush into Bernie's plan to have us subsidize that bullshit with our own labor. That'd be immensely unfair.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doom_Art 11/19/18 12:42:33 AM #25:	This is a really odd sociopathic way of looking at healthcare --- Not removing this until Mega Man 64 is released on the Wii Virtual Console. Started on: 12/1/2009 https://imgur.com/mPvcy <cite>Doom_Art posted [p:912655603] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>This is a really odd sociopathic way of looking at healthcare</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 11/19/18 12:42:45 AM #26:	Squall28 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... But at the same time, the amount of government reach involved in tracking that data is so massive that it worries me about a dystopian future where government power is abused by evil people (monopolies, fascists, communists, etc). The government is already corrupt as shit. You see it all the time with lobbying, and laws passing that don't benefit the average person at all. Of course, it could always be worse, but I don't think the government working with my cholesterol numbers is something I need to be overly worried about. Right, the government is corrupt. I don't want to empower it any more than we need to. It's also the reason why I'm vehemently opposed to forced vaccination. I'm 100% in favor of vaccinations, and have all my vaccinations and would vaccinate my kids. But to empower any government, be it the Trump administration or any other administration, to forcibly inject us with anything...is too much for me. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:912655610] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>Squall28 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>But at the same time, the amount of government reach involved in tracking that data is so massive that it worries me about a dystopian future where government power is abused by evil people (monopolies, fascists, communists, etc).</quote> The government is already corrupt as shit. You see it all the time with lobbying, and laws passing that don't benefit the average person at all. Of course, it could always be worse, but I don't think the government working with my cholesterol numbers is something I need to be overly worried about.</quote> Right, the government is corrupt. I don't want to empower it any more than we need to. It's also the reason why I'm vehemently opposed to forced vaccination. I'm 100% in favor of vaccinations, and have all my vaccinations and would vaccinate my kids. But to empower any government, be it the Trump administration or any other administration, to forcibly inject us with anything...is too much for me.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tmaster148 11/19/18 12:42:55 AM #27:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Tyranthraxus posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... billcom6 posted... whispers You already pay more cause of other people's bad habits. No, I actually don't. If we implemented Bernie's program tomorrow I'd have less income because of it without much if any gains from the healthcare I do use, since it's already relatively inexpensive. At least compared with a lifetime of the massively higher tax rate. No you do. Your premiums are higher than they otherwise would be to offset the cost of people that the insurance company is losing money on. Bernie's plan would just shift your expenses away from premiums into a tax. I don't have any premiums because my employer pays them. And I could find other jobs that pay most if not all of the premiums. Bernie's plan would literally represent more of my income going to the state. If you hate subsidizing bad behavior so much you should quit your job so your employer stops paying your insurance. --- https://imgur.com/BBcZDLJ <cite>Tmaster148 posted [p:912655616] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Tyranthraxus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>billcom6 posted...</cite> <quote>whispers You already pay more cause of other people's bad habits.</quote> No, I actually don't. If we implemented Bernie's program tomorrow I'd have less income because of it without much if any gains from the healthcare I do use, since it's already relatively inexpensive. At least compared with a lifetime of the massively higher tax rate.</quote> No you do. Your premiums are higher than they otherwise would be to offset the cost of people that the insurance company is losing money on. Bernie's plan would just shift your expenses away from premiums into a tax.</quote> I don't have any premiums because my employer pays them. And I could find other jobs that pay most if not all of the premiums. Bernie's plan would literally represent more of my income going to the state.</quote> If you hate subsidizing bad behavior so much you should quit your job so your employer stops paying your insurance.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 11/19/18 12:43:12 AM #28:	TC's right. Modern medicine was a mistake since we didn't also institute fascist control over people's habits. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:912655629] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>TC's right. Modern medicine was a mistake since we didn't also institute fascist control over people's habits.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tmaster148 11/19/18 12:43:50 AM #29:	hockeybub89 posted... TC's right. Modern medicine was a mistake since we didn't also institute fascist control over people's habits. Clearly we should switch to homeopathy. --- https://imgur.com/BBcZDLJ <cite>Tmaster148 posted [p:912655652] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>TC's right. Modern medicine was a mistake since we didn't also institute fascist control over people's habits.</quote> Clearly we should switch to homeopathy.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 11/19/18 12:43:55 AM #30:	Doom_Art posted... This is a really odd sociopathic way of looking at healthcare It's sociopathic to demand that someone else bust their ass at their job in order to pay for Fat Joe's awful eating habits and smoking habits. Remember, upwards of 30% of our yearly healthcare expenditures are because of obesity and smoking. I'd hate to do research on how much alcoholism (and drunk drivers, etc) contribute to that. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:912655657] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>Doom_Art posted...</cite> <quote>This is a really odd sociopathic way of looking at healthcare</quote> It's sociopathic to demand that someone else bust their ass at their job in order to pay for Fat Joe's awful eating habits and smoking habits. Remember, upwards of 30% of our yearly healthcare expenditures are because of obesity and smoking. I'd hate to do research on how much alcoholism (and drunk drivers, etc) contribute to that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 11/19/18 12:44:26 AM #31:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Squall28 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... But at the same time, the amount of government reach involved in tracking that data is so massive that it worries me about a dystopian future where government power is abused by evil people (monopolies, fascists, communists, etc). The government is already corrupt as shit. You see it all the time with lobbying, and laws passing that don't benefit the average person at all. Of course, it could always be worse, but I don't think the government working with my cholesterol numbers is something I need to be overly worried about. Right, the government is corrupt. I don't want to empower it any more than we need to. It's also the reason why I'm vehemently opposed to forced vaccination. I'm 100% in favor of vaccinations, and have all my vaccinations and would vaccinate my kids. But to empower any government, be it the Trump administration or any other administration, to forcibly inject us with anything...is too much for me. I'd be fine with us offering anti-vaxxers a one way trip to their own island where they can't kill people. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:912655679] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Squall28 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>But at the same time, the amount of government reach involved in tracking that data is so massive that it worries me about a dystopian future where government power is abused by evil people (monopolies, fascists, communists, etc).</quote> The government is already corrupt as shit. You see it all the time with lobbying, and laws passing that don't benefit the average person at all. Of course, it could always be worse, but I don't think the government working with my cholesterol numbers is something I need to be overly worried about.</quote> Right, the government is corrupt. I don't want to empower it any more than we need to. It's also the reason why I'm vehemently opposed to forced vaccination. I'm 100% in favor of vaccinations, and have all my vaccinations and would vaccinate my kids. But to empower any government, be it the Trump administration or any other administration, to forcibly inject us with anything...is too much for me.</quote> I'd be fine with us offering anti-vaxxers a one way trip to their own island where they can't kill people.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tmaster148 11/19/18 12:45:21 AM #32:	hockeybub89 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... Squall28 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... But at the same time, the amount of government reach involved in tracking that data is so massive that it worries me about a dystopian future where government power is abused by evil people (monopolies, fascists, communists, etc). The government is already corrupt as shit. You see it all the time with lobbying, and laws passing that don't benefit the average person at all. Of course, it could always be worse, but I don't think the government working with my cholesterol numbers is something I need to be overly worried about. Right, the government is corrupt. I don't want to empower it any more than we need to. It's also the reason why I'm vehemently opposed to forced vaccination. I'm 100% in favor of vaccinations, and have all my vaccinations and would vaccinate my kids. But to empower any government, be it the Trump administration or any other administration, to forcibly inject us with anything...is too much for me. I'd be fine with us offering anti-vaxxers a one way trip to their own island where they can't kill people. Reminder. Proudclad has said we shouldn't let the government vaccinate children because they might try to poison them. --- https://imgur.com/BBcZDLJ <cite>Tmaster148 posted [p:912655703] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Squall28 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>But at the same time, the amount of government reach involved in tracking that data is so massive that it worries me about a dystopian future where government power is abused by evil people (monopolies, fascists, communists, etc).</quote> The government is already corrupt as shit. You see it all the time with lobbying, and laws passing that don't benefit the average person at all. Of course, it could always be worse, but I don't think the government working with my cholesterol numbers is something I need to be overly worried about.</quote> Right, the government is corrupt. I don't want to empower it any more than we need to. It's also the reason why I'm vehemently opposed to forced vaccination. I'm 100% in favor of vaccinations, and have all my vaccinations and would vaccinate my kids. But to empower any government, be it the Trump administration or any other administration, to forcibly inject us with anything...is too much for me.</quote> I'd be fine with us offering anti-vaxxers a one way trip to their own island where they can't kill people.</quote> Reminder. Proudclad has said we shouldn't let the government vaccinate children because they might try to poison them.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tyranthraxus 11/19/18 12:46:16 AM #33:	uwnim posted... Tyranthraxus posted... No you do. Your premiums are higher than they otherwise would be to offset the cost of people that the insurance company is losing money on. Bernie's plan would just shift your expenses away from premiums into a tax. If he gets his plan through his job, then he's probably right. He's paying into a smaller pool that's less likely to have really sick people, so his premiums would be lower than they would be paying into a general population pool. My current employer is pretty transparent about our health plan. Last year the company cost the insurance a lot of money so as a result they tried to hike the company's premium by $600,000 which would have been offset by passing a portion of it onto us. As a result, he had to convert our plans into cheaper, shitty plans in order to keep them affordable. And they're still more expensive. Before I payed nothing off my paycheck and had since pretty good deductibles. Now I have a $5000 deductible, a useless HSA, and I pay $40 a month for the privilege (plus whatever goes into my HSA) --- It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha." https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:912655729] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>uwnim posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Tyranthraxus posted...</cite> <quote> No you do. Your premiums are higher than they otherwise would be to offset the cost of people that the insurance company is losing money on. Bernie's plan would just shift your expenses away from premiums into a tax.</quote> If he gets his plan through his job, then he's probably right. He's paying into a smaller pool that's less likely to have really sick people, so his premiums would be lower than they would be paying into a general population pool.</quote> My current employer is pretty transparent about our health plan. Last year the company cost the insurance a lot of money so as a result they tried to hike the company's premium by $600,000 which would have been offset by passing a portion of it onto us. As a result, he had to convert our plans into cheaper, shitty plans in order to keep them affordable. And they're still more expensive. Before I payed nothing off my paycheck and had since pretty good deductibles. Now I have a $5000 deductible, a useless HSA, and I pay $40 a month for the privilege (plus whatever goes into my HSA)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
frozenshock 11/19/18 12:46:31 AM #34:	I also have a problem with subsidizing bad behavior. That is, the bad behavior of insurance companies screwing people over. --- I don't hate people, people hate me. <cite>frozenshock posted [p:912655744] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>I also have a problem with subsidizing bad behavior. That is, the bad behavior of insurance companies screwing people over.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 11/19/18 12:47:57 AM #35:	Tyranthraxus posted... Before I payed nothing off my paycheck and had since pretty good deductibles. Now I have a $5000 deductible, a useless HSA, and I pay $40 a month for the privilege (plus whatever goes into my HSA) Do they not offer a low deductible plan that is a bit more expensive each month? In any case, if you're healthy an HSA is a great tool for saving for the future. The money that goes in is tax free, the earnings grow tax free, and withdrawals for medical expenses are tax free. That's 3x tax savings and you can even pick what the fund is invested in. Very powerful product. frozenshock posted... I also have a problem with subsidizing bad behavior. That is, the bad behavior of insurance companies screwing people over. Is Bernie's plan the only way to avoid that? --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:912655802] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>Tyranthraxus posted...</cite> <quote>Before I payed nothing off my paycheck and had since pretty good deductibles. Now I have a $5000 deductible, a useless HSA, and I pay $40 a month for the privilege (plus whatever goes into my HSA) </quote> Do they not offer a low deductible plan that is a bit more expensive each month? In any case, if you're healthy an HSA is a great tool for saving for the future. The money that goes in is tax free, the earnings grow tax free, and withdrawals for medical expenses are tax free. That's 3x tax savings and you can even pick what the fund is invested in. Very powerful product. <cite>frozenshock posted...</cite> <quote>I also have a problem with subsidizing bad behavior. That is, the bad behavior of insurance companies screwing people over.</quote> Is Bernie's plan the only way to avoid that?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Squall28 11/19/18 12:50:29 AM #36:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Squall28 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... But at the same time, the amount of government reach involved in tracking that data is so massive that it worries me about a dystopian future where government power is abused by evil people (monopolies, fascists, communists, etc). The government is already corrupt as shit. You see it all the time with lobbying, and laws passing that don't benefit the average person at all. Of course, it could always be worse, but I don't think the government working with my cholesterol numbers is something I need to be overly worried about. Right, the government is corrupt. I don't want to empower it any more than we need to. It's also the reason why I'm vehemently opposed to forced vaccination. I'm 100% in favor of vaccinations, and have all my vaccinations and would vaccinate my kids. But to empower any government, be it the Trump administration or any other administration, to forcibly inject us with anything...is too much for me. I think we're a long ways off from some 1984 type shit. Right now the corruption is more about money than control, and I suspect it'd be like that in the future. Freedom is a really big part of our culture, and I think that will go a long way in stopping that kind of thing. --- If you're going through hell, keep going. -Winston Churchill <cite>Squall28 posted [p:912655892] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Squall28 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>But at the same time, the amount of government reach involved in tracking that data is so massive that it worries me about a dystopian future where government power is abused by evil people (monopolies, fascists, communists, etc).</quote> The government is already corrupt as shit. You see it all the time with lobbying, and laws passing that don't benefit the average person at all. Of course, it could always be worse, but I don't think the government working with my cholesterol numbers is something I need to be overly worried about.</quote> Right, the government is corrupt. I don't want to empower it any more than we need to. It's also the reason why I'm vehemently opposed to forced vaccination. I'm 100% in favor of vaccinations, and have all my vaccinations and would vaccinate my kids. But to empower any government, be it the Trump administration or any other administration, to forcibly inject us with anything...is too much for me.</quote> I think we're a long ways off from some 1984 type shit. Right now the corruption is more about money than control, and I suspect it'd be like that in the future. Freedom is a really big part of our culture, and I think that will go a long way in stopping that kind of thing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tyranthraxus 11/19/18 12:51:32 AM #37:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Do they not offer a low deductible plan that is a bit more expensive each month? In any case, if you're healthy an HSA is a great tool for saving for the future. The money that goes in is tax free, the earnings grow tax free, and withdrawals for medical expenses are tax free. That's 3x tax savings and you can even pick what the fund is invested in. Very powerful product. The even more expensive "deductible" had co-pays covered (something else taken away from me) and a $3000 deductible and a higher OOP maximum than the HSA plan. I spoke to the benefits guy and he said I could move my HSA into an IRA and then I could invest with it if I wanted to but that's basically just my 401k with an extra useless step. --- It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha." https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:912655938] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>Do they not offer a low deductible plan that is a bit more expensive each month? In any case, if you're healthy an HSA is a great tool for saving for the future. The money that goes in is tax free, the earnings grow tax free, and withdrawals for medical expenses are tax free. That's 3x tax savings and you can even pick what the fund is invested in. Very powerful product.</quote> The even more expensive "deductible" had co-pays covered (something else taken away from me) and a $3000 deductible and a higher OOP maximum than the HSA plan. I spoke to the benefits guy and he said I could move my HSA into an IRA and then I could invest with it if I wanted to but that's basically just my 401k with an extra useless step.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 11/19/18 12:53:36 AM #38:	Tyranthraxus posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... Do they not offer a low deductible plan that is a bit more expensive each month? In any case, if you're healthy an HSA is a great tool for saving for the future. The money that goes in is tax free, the earnings grow tax free, and withdrawals for medical expenses are tax free. That's 3x tax savings and you can even pick what the fund is invested in. Very powerful product. The even more expensive "deductible" had co-pays covered (something else taken away from me) and a $3000 deductible and a higher OOP maximum than the HSA plan. I spoke to the benefits guy and he said I could move my HSA into an IRA and then I could invest with it if I wanted to but that's basically just my 401k with an extra useless step. You can put money into the HSA and it'll grow tax free. And any balance can be withdrawn normally as if it were a 401k once you get to retirement age. So you don't need to use it for just medical expenses, although if you do you can save your receipts and pull money out tax-free at a future date. As long as you have the receipts. Do some googling, HSAs are great if you're healthy and even if you need regular care but have a decent enough income to float those expenses yourself and save the receipts for future withdrawals. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:912656006] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>Tyranthraxus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>Do they not offer a low deductible plan that is a bit more expensive each month? In any case, if you're healthy an HSA is a great tool for saving for the future. The money that goes in is tax free, the earnings grow tax free, and withdrawals for medical expenses are tax free. That's 3x tax savings and you can even pick what the fund is invested in. Very powerful product.</quote> The even more expensive "deductible" had co-pays covered (something else taken away from me) and a $3000 deductible and a higher OOP maximum than the HSA plan. I spoke to the benefits guy and he said I could move my HSA into an IRA and then I could invest with it if I wanted to but that's basically just my 401k with an extra useless step.</quote> You can put money into the HSA and it'll grow tax free. And any balance can be withdrawn normally as if it were a 401k once you get to retirement age. So you don't need to use it for just medical expenses, although if you do you can save your receipts and pull money out tax-free at a future date. As long as you have the receipts. Do some googling, HSAs are great if you're healthy and even if you need regular care but have a decent enough income to float those expenses yourself and save the receipts for future withdrawals.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
uwnim 11/19/18 12:54:52 AM #39:	FLUFFYGERM posted... For me, any serious conversation on funding universal healthcare is a non-starter until smoking and obesity are resolved. Let's say 5% of the obese population has a legitimate health issue that makes it hard for them to lose weight. The remaining 25% of that annual health expenditure is so catastrophically high that we shouldn't rush into Bernie's plan to have us subsidize that bullshit with our own labor. That'd be immensely unfair. Currently insurance companies contribute towards the issue of overpriced healthcare, so if a plan could be made that reduced those costs(and any plan that doesn't wouldn't be worth considering in the first place), it could offset some of the fat people issues. There would need to be some way to get extra money from them though, I agree with that. Maybe we could have health care providers charge obese people. Like if you are obese, then their systems will indicate that you need to pay a co-pay, while if you are not, you don't. --- I want a pet Lavos Spawn. [Order of the Cetaceans: Phocoena dioptrica] <cite>uwnim posted [p:912656047] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote> For me, any serious conversation on funding universal healthcare is a non-starter until smoking and obesity are resolved. Let's say 5% of the obese population has a legitimate health issue that makes it hard for them to lose weight. The remaining 25% of that annual health expenditure is so catastrophically high that we shouldn't rush into Bernie's plan to have us subsidize that bullshit with our own labor. That'd be immensely unfair.</quote> Currently insurance companies contribute towards the issue of overpriced healthcare, so if a plan could be made that reduced those costs(and any plan that doesn't wouldn't be worth considering in the first place), it could offset some of the fat people issues. There would need to be some way to get extra money from them though, I agree with that. Maybe we could have health care providers charge obese people. Like if you are obese, then their systems will indicate that you need to pay a co-pay, while if you are not, you don't.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tyranthraxus 11/19/18 12:56:23 AM #40:	I'm well aware of what the HSA does. It's just a second 401k to me right now. Except it's cash instead of stocks. --- It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha." https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:912656095] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>I'm well aware of what the HSA does. It's just a second 401k to me right now. Except it's cash instead of stocks.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 11/19/18 12:58:39 AM #41:	uwnim posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... For me, any serious conversation on funding universal healthcare is a non-starter until smoking and obesity are resolved. Let's say 5% of the obese population has a legitimate health issue that makes it hard for them to lose weight. The remaining 25% of that annual health expenditure is so catastrophically high that we shouldn't rush into Bernie's plan to have us subsidize that bullshit with our own labor. That'd be immensely unfair. Currently insurance companies contribute towards the issue of overpriced healthcare, so if a plan could be made that reduced those costs(and any plan that doesn't wouldn't be worth considering in the first place), it could offset some of the fat people issues. There would need to be some way to get extra money from them though, I agree with that. Maybe we could have health care providers charge obese people. Like if you are obese, then their systems will indicate that you need to pay a co-pay, while if you are not, you don't. Unless the copay matches the extra burden introduced onto the system by obesity, smoking, alcoholism, etc, it won't matter. And the burden is so huge that those people wouldn't be able to afford such copays, which means it wouldn't actually be a universal program. Idk, the more I think about this the more I believe that technology is the only solution for costs and accessibility. We need serious investment in more health-tech. Tyranthraxus posted... I'm well aware of what the HSA does. It's just a second 401k to me right now. Except it's cash instead of stocks. Once the balance is like $2500 or higher (forgot what the threshold is exactly) you can allocate the money into different investments, rather than just leave it as cash --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:912656164] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>uwnim posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote> For me, any serious conversation on funding universal healthcare is a non-starter until smoking and obesity are resolved. Let's say 5% of the obese population has a legitimate health issue that makes it hard for them to lose weight. The remaining 25% of that annual health expenditure is so catastrophically high that we shouldn't rush into Bernie's plan to have us subsidize that bullshit with our own labor. That'd be immensely unfair.</quote> Currently insurance companies contribute towards the issue of overpriced healthcare, so if a plan could be made that reduced those costs(and any plan that doesn't wouldn't be worth considering in the first place), it could offset some of the fat people issues. There would need to be some way to get extra money from them though, I agree with that. Maybe we could have health care providers charge obese people. Like if you are obese, then their systems will indicate that you need to pay a co-pay, while if you are not, you don't.</quote> Unless the copay matches the extra burden introduced onto the system by obesity, smoking, alcoholism, etc, it won't matter. And the burden is so huge that those people wouldn't be able to afford such copays, which means it wouldn't actually be a universal program. Idk, the more I think about this the more I believe that technology is the only solution for costs and accessibility. We need serious investment in more health-tech. <cite>Tyranthraxus posted...</cite> <quote>I'm well aware of what the HSA does. It's just a second 401k to me right now. Except it's cash instead of stocks.</quote> Once the balance is like $2500 or higher (forgot what the threshold is exactly) you can allocate the money into different investments, rather than just leave it as cash</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tyranthraxus 11/19/18 1:01:34 AM #42:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Once the balance is like $2500 or higher (forgot what the threshold is exactly) you can allocate the money into different investments, rather than just leave it as cash Yeah. Although have to be careful how much I take out because I can only add something like $2000 a year so if I pull everything out and then need to go to the doctor I'm on the hook for up to $5000. --- It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha." https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:912656251] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>Once the balance is like $2500 or higher (forgot what the threshold is exactly) you can allocate the money into different investments, rather than just leave it as cash</quote> Yeah. Although have to be careful how much I take out because I can only add something like $2000 a year so if I pull everything out and then need to go to the doctor I'm on the hook for up to $5000.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 11/19/18 1:02:13 AM #43:	Tyranthraxus posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... Once the balance is like $2500 or higher (forgot what the threshold is exactly) you can allocate the money into different investments, rather than just leave it as cash Yeah. Although have to be careful how much I take out because I can only add something like $2000 a year so if I pull everything out and then need to go to the doctor I'm on the hook for up to $5000. Yeah but for your income and profession that's a reasonable amount to float. If it happens, just cash out the HSA and use it for what it's for. If it doesn't happen, then let the HSA grow. It's a win win. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:912656285] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>Tyranthraxus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>Once the balance is like $2500 or higher (forgot what the threshold is exactly) you can allocate the money into different investments, rather than just leave it as cash</quote> Yeah. Although have to be careful how much I take out because I can only add something like $2000 a year so if I pull everything out and then need to go to the doctor I'm on the hook for up to $5000.</quote> Yeah but for your income and profession that's a reasonable amount to float. If it happens, just cash out the HSA and use it for what it's for. If it doesn't happen, then let the HSA grow. It's a win win.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 11/19/18 4:23:05 PM #44:	bump for day CE --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:912690199] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>bump for day CE</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 11/19/18 4:28:46 PM #45:	the fallacy you're making is the assumption that you can not pay for that medical care by not insuring that population. in actual fact, when they have heart attacks, they still end up consuming health resources --- But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:912690570] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>the fallacy you're making is the assumption that you can not pay for that medical care by not insuring that population. in actual fact, when they have heart attacks, they still end up consuming health resources</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 11/19/18 4:30:09 PM #46:	Balrog0 posted... the fallacy you're making is the assumption that you can not pay for that medical care by not insuring that population. in actual fact, when they have heart attacks, they still end up consuming health resources Which doesn't translate into healthcare costs that are higher for me than Bernie's tax increases would be. And we still don't know if Bernie's plan would actually reduce heart attacks. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:912690667] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>the fallacy you're making is the assumption that you can not pay for that medical care by not insuring that population. in actual fact, when they have heart attacks, they still end up consuming health resources</quote> Which doesn't translate into healthcare costs that are higher for me than Bernie's tax increases would be. And we still don't know if Bernie's plan would actually reduce heart attacks.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tyranthraxus 11/19/18 4:43:56 PM #47:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Balrog0 posted... the fallacy you're making is the assumption that you can not pay for that medical care by not insuring that population. in actual fact, when they have heart attacks, they still end up consuming health resources Which doesn't translate into healthcare costs that are higher for me than Bernie's tax increases would be. And we still don't know if Bernie's plan would actually reduce heart attacks. It'll reduce it for liberals and increase it for conservaderps --- It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha." https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:912691442] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>the fallacy you're making is the assumption that you can not pay for that medical care by not insuring that population. in actual fact, when they have heart attacks, they still end up consuming health resources</quote> Which doesn't translate into healthcare costs that are higher for me than Bernie's tax increases would be. And we still don't know if Bernie's plan would actually reduce heart attacks.</quote> It'll reduce it for liberals and increase it for conservaderps</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
justaguy3492 11/19/18 4:46:18 PM #48:	I hear ya, but i got a bigger problem with people dying due to not having enough money. --- Gt: justaguy3492 <cite>justaguy3492 posted [p:912691586] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>I hear ya, but i got a bigger problem with people dying due to not having enough money.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 11/19/18 4:47:16 PM #49:	tl;dr: "Socialism eventually leads to tyranny, so let's just start it out that way!" <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:912691639] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>tl;dr: "Socialism eventually leads to tyranny, so let's just start it out that way!"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Rika_Furude 11/19/18 4:47:42 PM #50:	Not reading any of that but just want to say, national healthcare always beats any alternative system --- Posted with GameRaven 3.5.1 <cite>Rika_Furude posted [p:912691668] in My biggest... [t:77216501]...</cite> <quote>Not reading any of that but just want to say, national healthcare always beats any alternative system</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > My biggest problem with universal healthcare is subsidizing bad behavior. (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > My biggest problem with universal healthcare is subsidizing bad behavior.