Board 8 > Gauntlet Crew Ranks Science Fiction Films I

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm gonna go with guessing Forbidden Planet again.
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#38 - Fantastic Voyage (1966)
Inviso - 20
Scarlet - 28
KBM - 32
Charon - 33
Johnbobb - 33
Snake - 33
Stifled - 33
Wickle - 33
Karo - 36
Genny - 38
JONA - 40
Total: 359

"This film feels unique in the fact that it manages to find a way to transport a cast of human characters to a fantastical realm without forcing them to take flight into outer space. Im willing to ignore the gaping plot hole of the ending, because the rest of the film felt so tense and fascinating. The idea of shrinking a team of scientists down to perform microscopic surgery is interesting, but all the hazards of the human body keep the tension high throughout the film. From minor intravenous lacerations sending the crew tumbling into the wrong channel, to having to navigate a stopped heart, to sneaking through a silent inner ear, the writers managed to put the cast in danger in new, innovative ways without feeling cheap about it. Was the saboteur subplot necessary? Probably not. But it added some interpersonal tension, which I can appreciate. All-in-all, this was a solid film." ~Inviso

"What It Is: Thanks to Obamacare, a team of scientists enters the human body in miniature form, looking to destroy a deadly blood clot in the name of anti-Communism.

Why It Matters: The original short story, written by Jerome Bixby (a hugely influential writer who provided many famous stories that serve as episodes of The Twilight Zone, Star Trek and even played a major role in Isaac Asimov's work), really encapsulates the idea of science fiction in the 60s. It pioneered the sort of imaginative visual effects that would become a staple of science fiction for years to come. Fantastic Voyage has also served as the inspiration for everything from Doctor Who episodes to movies like Innerspace.

What I Think: When you look at the array of Inside Out movies, you find everything from the utterly terrible (Osmosis Jones) to the great (Inside Out). But I think it's important to give a nod to a story that really, truly defined the genre in the 60s, for good or for ill. There's a lot of original thought here. While the execution is certainly somewhat mundane and rife with pacing issues, this is one of those movies where, if you can set aside some of the clunkiness, you can just bask in the unbridled optimism the film presents. It's the sort of 60s story that shines a light on science and optimistically predicts technological marvels by which you can't help but be a little enchanted. Hell, the inside of the human body wouldn't get a special effects upgrade until Look Who's Talking. In the meantime, I like to sit back and go on a voyage with Donald Pleasance that lets me dream of tomorrow." ~scarlet

"I have to admit I have a fair amount of nostalgia for this movie, but that doesn't mean it's particularly great. Donald Pleasance is here, and that's neat, and I'm sure in 1966 this movie was just as visually fascinating as I found it when I was like 6 years old. But like a lot of Richard Fleischer's work, it's a workmanlike studio product that is firmly entrenched in its time. A lot of the acting is quite stilted, and at 100 minutes the Magic School Bus premise is stretched out to a very slow pace." ~KBM
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"Interesting concept, made me think of an episode of Rick and Morty's first season which apparently it influenced the creation of. While this film has all the usual bad delivery of an older film when it comes to its female character, it's at least not as overblown as many of the other films on this list are with it. The mystery of the saboteur is generally well done and I wasn't sure which it was until near the end. Biologically speaking, I'm not sure how accurate this actually was but apparently a lot of thought did go into formulating the workings of the inner human body. That said, there was only so much to do in a time period like this with special effects that were beyond the stations of the technicians. Still, I don't think it's necessarily bad or anything." ~charon

"Excellent and creative visuals make this high-concept film a simple delight to watch. Its hard not to love the idea of little men and a submarine exploring your body to make it better." ~Snake

"This movie was beautiful. I was very impressed with the effects and flashy pretty colors. But the movie itself was nowhere near as interesting. The cast was mostly bland except for a few standout moments here and there. I really didnt care if they lived or died or even succeeded. I was just fascinated by the scenery.

Traviss Opinion: He seemed to be on my wavelength. He loved the bright colors, but went off to play when there werent any." ~Stifled

"Something referenced in many cartoons, without recognition to this film. It was an attempt, not the most fabulous one, but definitely an attempt. I found it boring, and little things grated on me, such as just the swimming and the girl kicking the inner ear while doing it. The statement at the very beginning of the movie made me think it was some space thing like Forbidden Planet, but nope." ~Wickle

"The tale of a group of doctors in a miniaturized submarine sent on a fascinating journey into the inner workings of a lava lamp.
So basically they need to save the life of a Russian defector who has valuable information, and because of a bunch of arbitrary circumstances the only way to do this is to get the help of Hank Pym and shrink everyone to the size of microbes.
After a boring hour and a half of drifting around learning some partly incorrect biology lessons, they heal the Russian by changing the drapery in his brain with a space laser. They then exit the body and are welcomed as heroes, up until the point where the submarine they left behind returns to full size and makes his head explode.
Just stick with the Magic School Bus, you'll learn more, the characters will actually have personality, and you won't fall asleep halfway through." ~Karo

"I didn't derive much enjoyment out of The Fantastic Voyage, but I appreciate it for inspiring many concepts that came after. I think if the pacing had been much better- I swear it took about 45 minutes which was essentially half the movie just to get voyaging already- I'd have ranked it much higher. Yes the effects didn't hold up well but look at when this was created. They did the best they could with wind machines and colored paper and it's admirable." ~Genny

"I can see the influence that this movie has made but all it really has going for it is its premise and some neat yet outdated effects. Its a rather dull movie with a dull cast with a twist that was expected. Its not outright terrible but its also quite boring but not the kind of boring that made me upset that I even watched it. Pretty good for a #40 on the list!" ~JONA
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The Outlander Game Part III: Inviso's Quite Drastic Voyage

JONA - 33
Inviso - 32
Stifled - 26
Wickle - 23
Scarlet - 12
Karo - 11
Johnbobb - 10
Snake - 9
Charon - 8
KBM - 8
Genny - 2

Vis makes a big climb to second place, sitting just one point away from the lead and possibly stealing first place from JONA.
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Wow...I mean, I called a couple movies boring towards the bottom of my list...but I didn't think Fantastic Voyage (or When Worlds Collide) could fall under that descriptor.
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Hint for #37: This movie scored a 34, a 35, a 36, a 37, a 38, and a 39. Clearly Fantastic Voyage blocked it from all the 33s though.
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Gonna keep guessing Forbidden Planet.
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It came up in Discord, so I'll bring it here:

A lot of the early movies (timewise) on this list came from an era when there were still what we would today consider antiquated gender and racial roles. I can fully admit that the female roles in many of these early movies is to serve as a flat personality that fills a quota, but I don't think there's any instance outside of Barbarella where a characters gender really became so noticeable that I had a problem with the old-fashioned writing/story style of the films.
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That's interesting. I walked away from Barbarella thinking that the effort to not demonize sexuality was a big shift from the "husbands and wives must sleep in two beds" TV world of the time.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

blocked

HMMMM

Attack the Block
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I found Barbarella probably the least sexist of all the old movies

which is not at all what I expected going in
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I should clarify, since my message merged two clauses in a way I didn't intend:

I don't think there's any instance where a character's gender really became so noticeable that I had a problem with the old-fashioned writing/story style of the films.

Barbarella is the only instance in which a character was notably female in a way I found unappealing (due to the crass unpleasantness of the film at large.)
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It isn't really that, it's the fact that the characters have these offhanded comments to make about gender for no apparent reason. It doesn't even serve any purpose in the plot of the film, it's just like this little quick moment where the writer was like, "hmmm... the script is complete, but I don't have a backhanded sexist remark in there yet. ... There we go, all done!"

"Bet you're pretty handy around the house... Can you cook?" - Our hero in Fantastic Voyage

The thing is Raquel Welsh's character doesn't even acknowledge it and then the dude doesn't either, suddenly it's right back to the main plot of the film. It's just such a pointless exchange that adds nothing to anything.
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I didn't mention the swimming thing, but yeah that was awkward. Half the time, and especially in the case for Donald Pleasance's character, it didn't even look like he was actually swimming. I know no one who swims that way.
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v_charon posted...

It isn't really that, it's the fact that the characters have these offhanded comments to make about gender for no apparent reason. It doesn't even serve any purpose in the plot of the film, it's just like this little quick moment where the writer was like, "hmmm... the script is complete, but I don't have a backhanded sexist remark in there yet. ... There we go, all done!"

"Bet you're pretty handy around the house... Can you cook?" - Our hero in Fantastic Voyage

The thing is Raquel Welsh's character doesn't even acknowledge it and then the dude doesn't either, suddenly it's right back to the main plot of the film. It's just such a pointless exchange that adds nothing to anything.

I can understand your point of view. At the same time, banter that plays super-poorly now didn't play super-poorly then. I would throw up such a red flag to that in, say, Star Wars Episode IX. I see that in an older movie and it just registers to me that it's an older movie, it's a different sentiment, times have improved in certain contexts, move on.
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I think the most sexist part of Fantastic Voyage was towards the beginning where the guy in charge freaked out because they were taking a female scientist with them. The kitchen jokes were kinda par for the course back then, but I was still surprised to see occupational discrimination.
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I really bumped on that, personally. I think my expectation was that she would prove to be the most competent on the team and that perspective would be undermined, but that would be a movie for later decades I guess. Yikes.
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This is getting way ahead of the topic but this is basically the reason that I downgraded Blade Runner when I re-watched it recently. I guess in 1982 what Deckard does to Rachel was considered "taking charge" or whatever, but he straight up rapes her. It took me right out of the movie. Even if you reinterpret the scene as final evidence of his decent into inhumanity, I pretty much stopped caring about his fate as the protagonist.
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Man, I must have blocked that scene out of my head. I don't remember it at all.
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In Deckard's apartment, when Rachel tries to leave, he forces her up against a wall. She tries to resist, and he forces himself on her.
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Okay, I recall that. I probably would bump on that as well, but I do have specific opinions on Deckard himself where I can see that playing into him as a character and not just being the sort of archaic sexism it could be.
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I will also guess Forbidden Planet
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I think my Fantastic Voyage write-up got skipped unless I'm just not seeing it
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which sexist old movie will we lose today?
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Here's Johnbobb's write-up:

"First takeaway: I loved the opening credits. Didn't think that'd be one of the things to really grab me, especially in a 60s sci-fi film, but damn they're clean. Really, most of the visual effects here are, while kind of outdated, really pleasant to watch, with striking use of color and cinematograpgy. Plotwise, it's something we've now seen hundreds of times, but I suppose it was original for its time so I can't exactly knock it. I can hold it back just a little for the amount of slog it takes to really get the plot going, which is a shame, because otherwise there's a good bit to enjoy here." ~Johnbobb
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#37 - Forbidden Planet (1956)
Snake - 12
KBM - 21
Stifled - 26
Wickle - 29
JONA - 30
Genny - 34
Karo - 35
Johnbobb - 36
Inviso - 37
Scarlet - 38
Charon - 39
Total: 337

"Forbidden Planet is one of my favorites for several reasons. First, I absolutely love Robby the Robot, who is probably the best robot in sci-fi history. Second, I love the concept of the monsters from the Id. Fears manifested from our subconcious. Its a great central concept and an awesome way to portray the human psyche. The comparions to Shakespeares The Tempest are interesting way to show a sci-fi story too, and the translantions work surprisingly well. Overall, gripping characters and a gripping story makes this sci-fi film one I can watch over and over again." ~Snake

"It's The Tempest... but in space!!! Really, though, I was pleasantly surprised by this movie beautifully filmed and designed with great effects, cinematography, use of color, and some awe-inspiring sets. It also features Leslie Nielsen in his dramatic prime, which is something I haven't seen enough of; the guy gives a great performance here even when his character comes up a little lacking (often thanks to the embarrasingly dated gender politics). The script does have some genuinely interesting things to say at times, even when it does end up devolving into that peculiar brand of pseudo-Freudian psychobabble that seems almost omnipresent in '50s cinema. Anne Francis doesn't get much to do, contrary to what the opening number of Rocky Horror might claim, but regardless, it's still a very fun movie with a lot of elements that do, in fact, hold up surprisingly well today." ~KBM

"I really liked around 80% of this movie. I was prepared to put it much higher, but there was far too much talking and lecturing in spots. In particular, the history lesson of the creatures took way too long to get through. Without that, I might have placed this in the top 20. The robot was really cool. The mystery of what really happened to the previous crew of astronauts was fun because it placed major suspicion on the guy they came to visit. The action was pretty fun. The romance waskind of silly and sudden, but at the same time I enjoyed the girl shutting down the advances of most of the crew. I got a huge laugh at her being a Disney princess with those animals. And perhaps most importantly, it was the kind of classic campy sci-fi fun that I really wanted. If not for the pacing issues, this would be a real winner instead of just pretty good.

Traviss Opinion: Travis kept trying to cuddle with me and watch, but he got bored. He liked the space ship a lot and paid attention every time it was on the screen." ~Stifled

"Well, this was a weird film. Good for its time though. Monsters from the Id." ~Wickle

"There are some cool ideas and technology shown here but the movie has some pacing issues. The movie can feel like a very stretched out Twilight Zone episode. The romance is poorly done but theres some odd humor in there which kinda makes up for it. The mystery of what ended up happening to the scientists is intriguing and helped made me stick with the movie and not zone out and the payoff made me glad I stuck with it." ~JONA
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"Forbidden Planet was not very good! I saw the twist coming from a mile away (ask char it was literally the second theory I hypothesized) and the sexual tension between the dude's daughter and well EVERYONE else but the friggin' robot made me uncomfortable with the ending where she's stuck with the survivors and nothing but a robot incapable of killing humans to protect her from the inevitable train they're about to run on her. Don't you dare tell me the captain was different and wouldn't let that happen because he came across as a pig just like all the rest." ~Genny

"A flying saucer is sent to a distant planet in to find out the fate of a colony on the surface. It is soon discovered that the only two survivors are a man and his daughter, and that a mysterious evil force has killed everyone else.
The ship crew is composed of the best and brightest of earth's young astronauts, all of which spend most of their time getting drunk or trying to fuck the daughter the man they were sent to rescue.
In one particularly atrocious scene, the commander literally tells the girl to dress more modestly so his men dont rape her. You are a credit to your species, Captain Taliban.
The interesting tale of the alien civilization destroyed by its own hubris is the heart of this movie, but the delivery of the story is just so excruciating, and the characters so terrible." ~Karo

"This is tough to rate. I can acknowledge how important it was toward both sci-fi filmmaking and filmmaking in general. 70 years ago it was incredibly ahead of its time, but now it really hasn't held up, not in terms of effects (which, aside from lasers, are surprisingly solid), but storytelling. The film spends an uncomfortable amount of time focusing on the crew of scientists all trying to hook up with Alteria, a child-like woman who exists solely as a possession of Morbius to be won by Adams. Characters are killed off more rapidly and with less care than a typical teen slasher movie. There are good things here too; the idea of the metaphysical monster is a great one, but it's unfortunately hidden for most of the film behind fluff." ~Johnbobb

"This is the first movie on the list that felt underwhelming, to say the least. I figure it probably made the list in the first place because Robbie is such an iconic sci-fi robot, but overall, there just isnt a lot that stands out here. I get that the overarching plot involves a spaceship crew touching down to investigate a previously-explored planetand the human guy there is CLEARLY sketchy from minute one. But then youve got a weird love subplot, and the star of the film is the cook just trying to get his hands on a fuckton of bourbon (or was it whiskey?) Its just weird. The pacing is slow, to the point where nothing really HAPPENS until well after the halfway point in the film, and then everything just rushes to a resolution. It wasnt BAD, but it wasnt something amazing, either." ~Inviso
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"What It Is: It's Shakespeare's The Tempest but in space, with a robot and monsters of the mind.

Why It Matters: Forbidden Planet revolutionized a lot of concepts in sci fi filmmaking - it contains one of first usage of faster-than-light travel, something now a staple for the genre. Robby the Robot became an iconic character and also was the first major example of a robot depicted on film. The film was nominated for an Academy Award and is one of the elite handful of movies in the Library of Congress' National Film Registry. It was also one of the inspirations for Star Trek.

What I Think: While it revolutionized concepts for its time, the movie is uncomfortably primitive in a lot of respects, and it doesn't seem to realize it. After the shock of seeing Leslie Nielsen younger than 60 wears off, dissecting the characters just yields head-scratching results. That puts all of the film on poor old Robby, and while it's fun to see all of the Fallout: New Vegas progenitors (Morbius, protectrons, Forbidden Dome), it's ultimately a movie with no one to back. The shallow nature of the characters end up sealing its fate." ~scarlet

"A nauseating sendoff from 1950's sexism. This movie starts by introducing a ton of generic white dudes that I can't tell apart from one another and before too long all of them begin behaving like wild animals at the sight of a female. There's even a small innuendo about Robby the Robot being a female from the cook. It's unbelievable to me how anyone could relate to these characters in modern times. In one instance Nielsen's character goes from deriding a lesser ranking crew member for trying to seduce Alta, but then HE immediately does it himself. He's the worst. I was certain this movie would be at the bottom for me but then I watched my last place movie, which has a lot in common with this steaming relic from a shameful time in history." ~charon
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The Outlander Game Part IV: Forty-Point Planet

JONA - 40
KBM - 34
Snake - 34
Stifled - 35
Inviso - 32
Wickle - 31
Karo - 13
Scarlet - 13
Johnbobb - 11
Charon - 9
Genny - 5

Despite major leaps by Snake and KBM, JONA still is the first and only user to cross into 40s, maintaining a tenuous grip on his lead.
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Shame, Forbidden Planet has always been a film that stuck with me ever since seeing it as a kid with my dad. I've never forgotten about the monsters from the id, there's something so timeless about it.
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now that we've gotten the chaff out of the way things should be more interesting
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I'm gonna predict Outland next. There's apparently one film left without any top tens, and that strikes me as the most generic film to avoid blipping on anyone's radar.
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maybe someone really likes sean connery

anyway logan's run is the one I have a hard time believing would make a top 10
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I would be highly annoyed if my 40 has a top 10, but no one questions it right now, so probably not there.
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the odds are in favor of you being highly annoyed
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The different outlier title puns are great.
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Outlander stats: where 34 is higher than 35
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Clearly I just didn't move you up. I had to hurry to post.
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Aww. That's disappointing. I hope everything from pre-1970 doesn't just go out first, since some of them really do transcend the time in which they were made. That being said, I'm on Scar's side in terms of both "death of the author" and taking films in their proper historical context, so where When Worlds Collide and Barbarella really don't work for me because of things like pacing and stupid plotting (on top of Barbarella being preposterous in a lot of ways even for a sixties movie), Forbidden Planet was good enough in other ways for me to look past the shortcomings inherent to most of the films of its era.

(That said, there is an argument to be made that the original The Tempest, written circa 1610, is more progressive as far as gender roles than Forbidden Planet - I'm not saying it's not without its problems but I did enjoy the movie quite a bit regardless.)

Hint for #36: A Top 10 drops.
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All the films out so far are both older AND in color, so I wonder if there's a psychological aspect to it. Like, you see a film is in color, so you automatically hold it to a more modern standard in terms of gender roles, even though black and white films were being produced alongside color films back in the early years of this list.

Granted, I would not be surprised to see Metropolis or Day the Earth Stood Still both get eliminated in the next few rounds, but still.
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Gotta be BraveStarr.
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Vengeful_KBM posted...

Aww. That's disappointing. I hope everything from pre-1970 doesn't just go out first, since some of them really do transcend the time in which they were made. That being said, I'm on Scar's side in terms of both "death of the author" and taking films in their proper historical context, so where When Worlds Collide and Barbarella really don't work for me because of things like pacing and stupid plotting (on top of Barbarella being preposterous in a lot of ways even for a sixties movie), Forbidden Planet was good enough in other ways for me to look past the shortcomings inherent to most of the films of its era.

(That said, there is an argument to be made that the original The Tempest, written circa 1610, is more progressive as far as gender roles than Forbidden Planet - I'm not saying it's not without its problems but I did enjoy the movie quite a bit regardless.)

At some point, I feel like this line of defense is becoming trite and an excuse for bad writing. As you said yourself, Shakespeare didn't write it that way 300+ years prior. Writing and storytelling doesn't have to be defined by the time period in which you live; progressive behavior comes from somewhere, and if no one was willing to change the way they looked at the world, then the world would have never progressed at all. Now I'm not saying all writing has to be liberal or progressive or whatever, but there's a difference between being a product of your time and adding things into your script that have no real value. Like a writer of today doesn't have to talk about memes or Fortnite in their writing or put that in their films if it isn't crucial to the plot. I didn't see anyone defend The Emoji Movie as a product of our time period when you all shit all over it for being exactly what it was.
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v_charon posted...

Vengeful_KBM posted...

Aww. That's disappointing. I hope everything from pre-1970 doesn't just go out first, since some of them really do transcend the time in which they were made. That being said, I'm on Scar's side in terms of both "death of the author" and taking films in their proper historical context, so where When Worlds Collide and Barbarella really don't work for me because of things like pacing and stupid plotting (on top of Barbarella being preposterous in a lot of ways even for a sixties movie), Forbidden Planet was good enough in other ways for me to look past the shortcomings inherent to most of the films of its era.

(That said, there is an argument to be made that the original The Tempest, written circa 1610, is more progressive as far as gender roles than Forbidden Planet - I'm not saying it's not without its problems but I did enjoy the movie quite a bit regardless.)

At some point, I feel like this line of defense is becoming trite and an excuse for bad writing. As you said yourself, Shakespeare didn't write it that way 300+ years prior. Writing and storytelling doesn't have to be defined by the time period in which you live; progressive behavior comes from somewhere, and if no one was willing to change the way they looked at the world, then the world would have never progressed at all. Now I'm not saying all writing has to be liberal or progressive or whatever, but there's a difference between being a product of your time and adding things into your script that have no real value. Like a writer of today doesn't have to talk about memes or Fortnite in their writing or put that in their films if it isn't crucial to the plot. I didn't see anyone defend The Emoji Movie as a product of our time period when you all shit all over it for being exactly what it was.

You mentioned a quote about "cooking dinner" in one of your write-ups (I think it was you. I'm typing this and don't want to go back and check exactly whose write-up the quote was from regarding Fantastic Voyage), with the follow-up note that neither character responded and they just moved on with the scene. I feel like that particular exchange was more noticeable because we're watching these films from the perspective of people living in 2018, when that sort of thinking is at the forefront of our culture. For me, that moment didn't even register as anything more than the equivalent of flavor text to inform the time and setting.

Honestly, I'm thinking back through this list, and the ONLY movie (other than Barbarella, which I found sexist moreso because it felt like mindless fanservice...but again, different time and this was the same era as Benny Hill and Monty Python and stuff like that) where I remember thinking to myself "this is really unnecessarily sexist" was Planet of the Apes. And even there, it didn't detract from my viewing too much because the movie is what it is and you've gotta look at it in proper, historical context.

That's just my opinion though. It's just weird to see a bunch of write-ups calling out social issues, because they didn't even register with me.
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Guessing Outland next, no particular reason
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Although, I just had a different thought...

It's entirely possible that I'm being far too lenient on the older movies on this list, because we've done so many of these lists and there has typically been a LARGE gap in quality between older stuff and new stuff (for me at least), so the fact that most of the films on this list didn't utterly shit the bed may have made me more tolerant of flaws I might've noticed otherwise.
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Comparing Forbidden Planet to The Emoji Movie is a new level of "horrible analogy." Forbidden Planet has acting, world-building, and occasionally some insightful philosophical moments in the script. There's definitely some vintage fifties sexism, but it was less distracting to me here than in a lot of other movies from the era (which, all told, the '50s are my least favorite decade in film anyway).

Meanwhile, show me anybody who can say The Emoji Movie has anything interesting to say, or even any thought at all put into it outside shallow, cynical marketing. That person would be a liar. Silly comparison.
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There's a huge difference between gender roles ingrained in the behavior in a huge chunk of society for hundreds of years and a pop culture development that has existed for as long as text messages have. Shakespeare being "progressive" doesn't mean that the world around him suddenly came to its senses. If Shakespeare really WAS Shakespeare, he died penniless. If Shakespeare wasn't Shakespeare, he clearly hid behind a nom de plume because on some level he feared attaching his name to his work. Neither one demonstrates that the world of his time was particularly welcoming all of his ideas with open arms. And if your argument is that these writers clearly aren't as good as Shakespeare... they rewrote The Tempest with a robot.

Sexuality is a hugely important component of society since its dawn, and how writers in various outlets wrestle with it over the years is telling of the society in which it was produced. You're welcome to downgrade it because of how you watch movies, but for other people who watch these older movies from a historical perspective I don't think you can dismiss that they may view films with more clinical detachment.

To me, there are a couple of things that make a difference between Forbidden Planet and Fantastic Journey. Fantastic Journey makes it almost incumbent on the plot to show a woman as a weak commodity for which stronger men will vie. There's a huge difference between a movie rooted in that sort of animalistic baseness and the casual moments of sexism that are very clearly a product of their time in Fantastic Journey. Put it this way - one is crucial to the story and one isn't. One is representative of a rooted, seeded incorrectness, and the other is influenced by that incorrectness but not defined by it. Another way: if I cut a couple lines out of Fantastic Journey, you wouldn't know the difference. And, to me, that's how historical context works. I can bump on something - and maybe it still affects my enjoyment of that thing - but still appreciate the rest of it.

For me, this list demonstrates a heightening of intellectual thought in the Hollywood industry of science fiction filmmaking over time. To that end, I see the sexism and the baseness in the early films and results of those films being the crude progenitors of what is to come. Science fiction films spent much of their history sitting decades behind the science fiction stories and novels that came before and even now there is a certain amount of evolution they need to make to reach the heights of thoughtfulness some of the greatest books provoke. You can't make Foundation yet. Do I judge a caveman for being a caveman, or do I appreciate that I'm at a place where I no longer have to be one and see the past for what it is: a past, contributing in its part to a better future?
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Charon probably does not want to read that shit I just posted xD
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The other thing...an elephant in the room, if you will...but sci-fi as a film genre has always seemed to have a little bit of a sexist element to it. At least until more recent years when the genre has begun to appeal to a larger audience. Sci-fi in film feels like older video games in that it was mainly written and designed to appeal to a specific audience of nerds, typically male, and as such, female representation wasn't handled as well as perhaps modern viewers think it should be.

Look at Alien. I'm sure some people ranked it low, but it's an overwhelmingly popular film among society at large. It's a story about a bunch of space roughnecks. Yet even then, it still threw in a scene at the VERY END of Ripley stripping down to a skimpy pair of panties, just to throw in a little of that eye candy for the nerds.

Hell, look at Star Wars. The original trilogy. Much beloved by all. But in a trilogy of movies, there is exactly ONE female character who is relevant to the plot, and even SHE has a whole sequence that is unnecessary to the story as a whole, in which she's dressed in a gold bikini.

I'm just sayin'...you've gotta be able to detach yourself when you're watching old sci-fi, because that sort of mentality is interwoven in the fabric of the genre.
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