Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 207: Sinema Vérité

(+) Yeah! (+)

While that's very possible, Chris, I think you also need to accept that there are people out there who are capable of doing such a thing.

This particular guy is regularly going on conservative talk shows spewing vile hatred not against terrorists, criminals, or even the shooter, but the left in a highly political manner, and calls Dana Loesch his "friend," regularly supporting her and the NRA, whose response to Parkland was absolutely sick.

Is it possible this guy has been completely mentally deranged by his trauma and grief? Absolutely.

But as sick as it is to think, it's also possible he fully knows what he's doing.

It's a sad world.

EDIT: I mean, keep in mind this guy has literally ripped into other Parkland kids/families for speaking bad of Trump. It's unfair to criticize him directly, I'll agree. But he has very much become a willing mouthpiece for some very sick people.
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He doesn't sound like he knows what he is doing tbh. The way he invokes her name over and over. I know first hand how it feels like to have someone you care about be the victim of a mass shooting, and it fucked me up so bad and it wasn't someone I truly loved, just someone I admired and cared about. It fucked me up so bad for such a long term. Like, let's talk about the people who take advantage of this. I am not saying he is right, he isn't right, but god I don't even want to get into it with him when there are so many other people, and to compare him to a 'self own' is just.. fuck. The person he loved the most died, let's just let this one go.
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Espeon posted...

For me, Chris, I dont blame him for hating the murderer and thinking it's disgusting that he would be allowed to vote. Thats perfectly fair for a grieving father to feel. What bothers me is the blaming of Democrats despite the party having zero connection to the Republican-registered murderer. That feels extraordinarily fucked up, and gives the impression that hes either using his daughters death for unrelated political gain, or hes being manipulated by the GOP, who are using his daughters death for political gain.

I am sure the connection is that a democrat led provision to restore voting rights to felons was just passed.

Also, being traumatized from a tragedy doesn't make you mentally deranged. It is a perfectly normal reaction.
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I'm with Chris on this one. If you want to bitch about something here

Jakyl25 posted...

The really sickening thing is people like Dana Loesch glomming on to him to help push the NRA agenda

Bitch about people like this that are basically taking advantage of him.

Corrik posted...

Espeon posted...

For me, Chris, I dont blame him for hating the murderer and thinking it's disgusting that he would be allowed to vote. Thats perfectly fair for a grieving father to feel. What bothers me is the blaming of Democrats despite the party having zero connection to the Republican-registered murderer. That feels extraordinarily fucked up, and gives the impression that hes either using his daughters death for unrelated political gain, or hes being manipulated by the GOP, who are using his daughters death for political gain.

I am sure the connection is that a democrat led provision to restore voting rights to felons was just passed.

Also, being traumatized from a tragedy doesn't make you mentally deranged. It is a perfectly normal reaction.

Well the problem comes from the fact they didn't restore felon rights to murderers.
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Corrik posted...

I am sure the connection is that a democrat led provision to restore voting rights to felons was just passed.

No, the shooter has voting rights because no trial has happened yet.

The connection to Democrats is that the Sherrif is a Democrat I think and he allowed people to come in to the jail and register non-felons to vote
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Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik posted...

I am sure the connection is that a democrat led provision to restore voting rights to felons was just passed.

No, the shooter has voting rights because no trial has happened yet.

The connection to Democrats is that the Sherrif is a Democrat I think and he allowed people to come in to the jail and register non-felons to vote

Again. I am sure the connection is that he voted and will be allowed to vote in the future as a felon due to a democrat led provision that he was allowed to vote for himself.
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Corrik posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik posted...

I am sure the connection is that a democrat led provision to restore voting rights to felons was just passed.

No, the shooter has voting rights because no trial has happened yet.

The connection to Democrats is that the Sherrif is a Democrat I think and he allowed people to come in to the jail and register non-felons to vote

Again. I am sure the connection is that he voted and will be allowed to vote in the future as a felon due to a democrat led provision that he was allowed to vote for himself.

I think the provision only applies to EX-cons, right? Not people incarcerated (which I assume a mass murderer would be for quite some time).
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look at all this FAKE NEWS up in here by corrik

Florida's Amendment 4 (passed 64-36 so this wasn't close. Needed 60 anyway IIRC) restores voting rights to felons who have completed their full sentence (including prison, parole, or probation) with the exception of those convicted of murder or a sexual offense.
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Espeon posted...

Corrik posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik posted...

I am sure the connection is that a democrat led provision to restore voting rights to felons was just passed.

No, the shooter has voting rights because no trial has happened yet.

The connection to Democrats is that the Sherrif is a Democrat I think and he allowed people to come in to the jail and register non-felons to vote

Again. I am sure the connection is that he voted and will be allowed to vote in the future as a felon due to a democrat led provision that he was allowed to vote for himself.

I think the provision only applies to EX-cons, right? Not people incarcerated (which I assume a mass murderer would be for quite some time).

I was told felons, but I didn't look into it much further.
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xp1337 posted...

look at all this FAKE NEWS up in here by corrik

Florida's Amendment 4 (passed 64-36 so this wasn't close. Needed 60 anyway IIRC) restores voting rights to felons who have completed their full sentence (including prison, parole, or probation) with the exception of those convicted of murder or a sexual offense.

Isn't that pretty much the law almost every state has alrdy? Pretty sure that is how it is in PA.
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Uhhhh no
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Lmao
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Corrik posted...

xp1337 posted...

look at all this FAKE NEWS up in here by corrik

Florida's Amendment 4 (passed 64-36 so this wasn't close. Needed 60 anyway IIRC) restores voting rights to felons who have completed their full sentence (including prison, parole, or probation) with the exception of those convicted of murder or a sexual offense.

Isn't that pretty much the law almost every state has alrdy? Pretty sure that is how it is in PA.

The states are a bit of a mess on this.

2 allow felons to vote even while incarcerated (Maine and Vermont)
14 restore the right to vote after release from prison (Pennsylvania is here)
4 restore it after you're released from prison and complete parole
20 restore it after you've completed prison/parole and probation
7 restore it but have additional circumstantial requirements like it depending on the type of crime, or only first-time offenders, etc. Depending on the state the requirements are different, obviously. (Florida is now here)
3 require the individual to petition for their right to be restored. In Iowa I think it's to the court. In Kentucky and Virginia only the governor can restore the right to vote. (Florida was here prior to Amendment 4, a panel headed by the governor decided)
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Why would anyone even vote against the Florida provision then
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Because party-over-country GOP type people dont want felons to vote because theyre disproportionally black, and a heavy percentage of black people vote Democrat
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https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/77197975

Lol @Suprak_the_Stud
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Jakyl25 posted...

Because party-over-country GOP type people dont want felons to vote because theyre disproportionally black, and a heavy percentage of black people vote Democrat

I am sure it is because they are black and not because they are criminals. Grow up. Not everything is about race.
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Like just take this election

If the people now being re-granted voting rights could have voted this time, Gillum and Nelson probably would be in the lead right now instead of behind
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Corrik posted...

Why would anyone even vote against the Florida provision then

Corrik posted...

I am sure it is because they are black and not because they are criminals. Grow up. Not everything is about race.

Sounds like you already had an answer to your question ready to go there
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But please Suprak sanctimoniously lecture us about Corrik some more.
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Forget it, Jakyl. It's Corriktown.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Like just take this election

If the people now being re-granted voting rights could have voted this time, Gillum and Nelson probably would be in the lead right now instead of behind

Is this just based on the fact you think more criminals are democrat straight tickets or...?
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Corrik posted...

Is this just based on the fact you think more criminals are democrat straight tickets or...?

Jakyl25 posted...

black people vote Democrat

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Eddv posted...

But please Suprak sanctimoniously lecture us about Corrik some more.

This is a particularly bad case of Corrikitis
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Corrik posted...

I am sure it is because they are black and not because they are criminals. Grow up. Not everything is about race.

Two Google searches is all it would have taken for you to not look like... well, like you usually do.

https://news.uga.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Incarceration_Map-01.jpg

20% of the adult African-America population in Florida had a felony conviction in 2010.

https://www.cnn.com/election/2018/exit-polls/florida/senate

90% of black voters in Florida voted for Nelson. 86% went for Gillum.

I'm not even going to bother looking up census data to estimate how many additional votes for Nelson and Gillum those felons would have represented, because it doesn't matter. Jakyl is right and you are wrong. Again.
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https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1062148399825346560?s=21

So after all of Trumps gleefulness about how he personally hounded Jeff Flake out of office, Republicans ended up losing Flakes seat.

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Not_an_Owl posted...

Corrik posted...

I am sure it is because they are black and not because they are criminals. Grow up. Not everything is about race.

Two Google searches is all it would have taken for you to not look like... well, like you usually do.

https://news.uga.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Incarceration_Map-01.jpg

20% of the adult African-America population in Florida had a felony conviction in 2010.

https://www.cnn.com/election/2018/exit-polls/florida/senate

90% of black voters in Florida voted for Nelson. 86% went for Gillum.

I'm not even going to bother looking up census data to estimate how many additional votes for Nelson and Gillum those felons would have represented, because it doesn't matter. Jakyl is right and you are wrong. Again.

Oh yeah?

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/11/2/18049510/felon-voting-rights-amendment-4-florida

I mean I know it is nice to just assume any black person is your pocket vote for your candidate but not the case. The vast majority of ex-felons don't even vote.

It was estimated a 48k net gain for democrats with a couple tens of thousands unaffiliated which could go either way.

Sure would 48k flip those races? Sure. Barely. But, it was also a midterm and not a presidential race so those numbers would have likely been even further down.

Maybe use actual numbers instead of just acting like 90% of the black population automatically votes for you instead of understanding the percentage of people who even votes.
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We were explaining it to you why Republicans are generally against it, not what its actual political effects would be
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Because party-over-country GOP type people dont want felons to vote because theyre disproportionally black, and a heavy percentage of black people vote Democrat

I dont get this one. Theyre legal citizens. They deserve the right to vote like anyone else.

I can understand the perspective of those who want to revoke voting rights while imprisoned, but not after their release
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Jakyl25 posted...

We were explaining it to you why Republicans are generally against it, not what its actual political effects would be

I don't think Republicans are against it because they are racist.
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You said you didnt know why anyone would be against it.

Heck, WE arent even saying its because theyre racist. Just that its a potential political inconvenience
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Jakyl25 posted...

UltimaterializerX posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Because party-over-country GOP type people dont want felons to vote because theyre disproportionally black, and a heavy percentage of black people vote Democrat

I dont get this one. Theyre legal citizens. They deserve the right to vote like anyone else.

I can understand the perspective of those who want to revoke voting rights while imprisoned, but not after their release

I would add parole and imprisonment.

I would also add imprisonment for those awaiting trial and did not pay or were denied bail. They should be given provisional ballots and only be counted if they would have effect and if found not guilty of the felony.
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Jakyl25 posted...

You said you didnt know why anyone would be against it.

Heck, WE arent even saying its because theyre racist. Just that its a potential political inconvenience

If you say so. I'll take your word on it. I think you would have just said felons predominantly vote Democrat and that is why without the race angle if otherwise, but I'll believe ya.
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Corrik posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

You said you didnt know why anyone would be against it.

Heck, WE arent even saying its because theyre racist. Just that its a potential political inconvenience

If you say so. I'll take your word on it. I think you would have just said felons predominantly vote Democrat and that is why without the race angle if otherwise, but I'll believe ya.

I don't think anyone is saying felons predominately vote Democrat. We are saying that felons are disproportionately black, and that black people disproportionately vote Democrat, which would explain why Republicans are against allowing felons to vote - because it helps Democrats more than it helps Republicans.
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Truly incorrikgible
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New indictments from Mueller potentially coming today.

Also more rumors of John Kelly quitting.
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Not_an_Owl posted...

Corrik posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

You said you didnt know why anyone would be against it.

Heck, WE arent even saying its because theyre racist. Just that its a potential political inconvenience

If you say so. I'll take your word on it. I think you would have just said felons predominantly vote Democrat and that is why without the race angle if otherwise, but I'll believe ya.

I don't think anyone is saying felons predominately vote Democrat. We are saying that felons are disproportionately black, and that black people disproportionately vote Democrat, which would explain why Republicans are against allowing felons to vote - because it helps Democrats more than it helps Republicans.

On this subject, on November 6th a dude said he wished he could vote but was on probation so couldn't. I was like you can vote. Why wouldn't you be able to. He wasn't even on probation for a felony and thought he couldn't vote. Do people say stuff that makes them think that? I am on probation and the thought I couldn't vote didn't even cross my mind.
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Voter intimidation is a sadly real form of voter suppression
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Shaduln posted...

New indictments from Mueller potentially coming today.

Also more rumors of John Kelly quitting.

What with mcconnel meeting directly with rupert murdoch the other day, it feels like something big is about to drop. The cynic in me was thinking they were spinning firing rosenstein or mueller or something. Spinning indictments would be a lot nicer
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I would also add imprisonment for those awaiting trial and did not pay or were denied bail. They should be given provisional ballots and only be counted if they would have effect and if found not guilty of the felony.

If I understand this correctly, you're saying that someone who has been accused and imprisoned but not yet convicted should be able to cast a provisional ballot, which will be counted if they are found not guilty, but discarded if they are found guilty?

I don't think that's viable. I don't know how long it is typical for people to await trial, but isn't it on the order of weeks to months? We cannot have an election held up by the criminal justice system.

I'd say, if the alleged criminal has not yet been found guilty (of their felony murder/sexual offense) then they should be able to vote as normal. That does mean some murderers will get to cast a ballot because they weren't caught until two days before Election Day and the judge's got other cases on the docket; so be it.
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This sure is timely for the current page: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46189391

FBI: Spike in US hate crimes for third year in a row
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MalcolmMasher posted...

I don't think that's viable. I don't know how long it is typical for people to await trial, but isn't it on the order of weeks to months? We cannot have an election held up by the criminal justice system.

Accurate. Case in point, the Parkland shooter himself.

just allow every citizen over the age of 18 to vote jfc
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Introduce an amendment that:

Increases the voting age to 25 (unless maybe if they're in the military)
Ends felon disenfranchisement (unless maybe if they're currently incarcerated)

I feel like that can be palatable to the GOP since the 18-24 year old idiots won't be able to vote blue.
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One thing we do in Canada that'd be useful down in the states is that whenever I file my taxes I can check a box and allow the CRA to forward my information to Elections Canada. Basically, whenever I file my taxes I register to vote at the same time without any fuss or effort.
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