Poll of the Day > Why do so many fantasy games use Orcs?

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Muscles 09/15/18 3:20:41 PM #1:	They aren't allowed to use Hobbits because Tolkien made those, but he also made Orcs Non Tolkien works should stay away from Orcs and stick to beings that predate LotR like Elves, Dwarves, Goblins, etc. --- Muscles Chicago Bears \| Chicago Blackhawks \| Chicago Bulls \| Chicago Cubs \| NIU Huskies <cite>Muscles posted [p:908812240] in Why do so ... [t:77006156]...</cite> <quote>They aren't allowed to use Hobbits because Tolkien made those, but he also made Orcs Non Tolkien works should stay away from Orcs and stick to beings that predate LotR like Elves, Dwarves, Goblins, etc.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lokarin 09/15/18 3:24:16 PM #2:	probably 'cuz everyone wants to rip off LotR, but Orcs (and elves) are unfortunate enough to be pre-existing creatures and not 100% Tolkein --- "Salt cures Everything!" My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos <cite>Lokarin posted [p:908812424] in Why do so ... [t:77006156]...</cite> <quote>probably 'cuz everyone wants to rip off LotR, but Orcs (and elves) are unfortunate enough to be pre-existing creatures and not 100% Tolkein</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
wolfy42 09/15/18 3:40:28 PM #3:	Orcs are a type of Fey and predate Tolkien significantly. Hobbits were for the most part his own creation but...even those were....redone...as halflings for DnD etc....and used in dragonlance etc all over the place. So they are used often, just not called hobbits (as that is specific to Tolkiens universe. Pretty much everything else in Tolkiens universe is free game as it existed previously or is just a general idea. --- "did you steal my f***in signature" Helly <cite>wolfy42 posted [p:908813266] in Why do so ... [t:77006156]...</cite> <quote>Orcs are a type of Fey and predate Tolkien significantly. Hobbits were for the most part his own creation but...even those were....redone...as halflings for DnD etc....and used in dragonlance etc all over the place. So they are used often, just not called hobbits (as that is specific to Tolkiens universe. Pretty much everything else in Tolkiens universe is free game as it existed previously or is just a general idea.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DPsx7 09/15/18 4:58:46 PM #4:	Same reason you see so many damn zombies anymore. If you use any other group (short of Nazi's or something) then some group somewhere is going to complain about discrimination. <cite>DPsx7 posted [p:908817244] in Why do so ... [t:77006156]...</cite> <quote>Same reason you see so many damn zombies anymore. If you use any other group (short of Nazi's or something) then some group somewhere is going to complain about discrimination.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Muscles 09/15/18 5:34:23 PM #5:	Fantasy is usually not white guys vs black guys or white guys vs muslims though It's just guys vs non humans --- Muscles Chicago Bears \| Chicago Blackhawks \| Chicago Bulls \| Chicago Cubs \| NIU Huskies <cite>Muscles posted [p:908819024] in Why do so ... [t:77006156]...</cite> <quote>Fantasy is usually not white guys vs black guys or white guys vs muslims though It's just guys vs non humans</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JOExHIGASHI 09/15/18 5:36:10 PM #6:	DPsx7 posted... Same reason you see so many damn zombies anymore. If you use any other group (short of Nazi's or something) then some group somewhere is going to complain about discrimination. Modern zombies are used everywhere because the person that created them didn't have a copyright symbol in the movie so technically his zombies were not copyrighted which means anybody could use them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Living_Dead#Copyright_status_and_home_media --- Next Xbox will be named Xbox1 2 <cite>JOExHIGASHI posted [p:908819110] in Why do so ... [t:77006156]...</cite> <quote><cite>DPsx7 posted...</cite> <quote>Same reason you see so many damn zombies anymore. If you use any other group (short of Nazi's or something) then some group somewhere is going to complain about discrimination.</quote> Modern zombies are used everywhere because the person that created them didn't have a copyright symbol in the movie so technically his zombies were not copyrighted which means anybody could use them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Living_Dead#Copyright_status_and_home_media</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Muscles 09/15/18 5:49:52 PM #7:	wolfy42 posted... Orcs are a type of Fey and predate Tolkien significantly. Hobbits were for the most part his own creation but...even those were....redone...as halflings for DnD etc....and used in dragonlance etc all over the place. So they are used often, just not called hobbits (as that is specific to Tolkiens universe. Pretty much everything else in Tolkiens universe is free game as it existed previously or is just a general idea. Orcs were invented by Tolkien though, they may have been inspired by something else but he invented the word and the race as we know them despite the inspiration for them predating Tolkien --- Muscles Chicago Bears \| Chicago Blackhawks \| Chicago Bulls \| Chicago Cubs \| NIU Huskies <cite>Muscles posted [p:908819827] in Why do so ... [t:77006156]...</cite> <quote><cite>wolfy42 posted...</cite> <quote>Orcs are a type of Fey and predate Tolkien significantly. Hobbits were for the most part his own creation but...even those were....redone...as halflings for DnD etc....and used in dragonlance etc all over the place. So they are used often, just not called hobbits (as that is specific to Tolkiens universe. Pretty much everything else in Tolkiens universe is free game as it existed previously or is just a general idea.</quote> Orcs were invented by Tolkien though, they may have been inspired by something else but he invented the word and the race as we know them despite the inspiration for them predating Tolkien</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 09/15/18 5:58:36 PM #8:	Sex appeal --- If they drag you through the mud, it doesnt change whats in your blood <cite>Mead posted [p:908820201] in Why do so ... [t:77006156]...</cite> <quote>Sex appeal</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sahuagin 09/16/18 12:19:34 AM #9:	Muscles posted... Orcs were invented by Tolkien though, they may have been inspired by something else but he invented the word and the race as we know them despite the inspiration for them predating Tolkien I think he very specifically did not invent the word orc. he invented the word hobbit, and about the only thing missing from modern fantasy is the word hobbit. (possibly also "balrog", at least when referencing a big red demon.) I don't know why, but it seems you can use the same name as long as it doesn't apply to the same concept (balrog in street fighter), or use the same (or very similar) concept as long as it doesn't have the same name (halflings in D&D; note that Tolkien didn't coin the word halfling either, so I guess it's fair game). --- *The truth basks in scrutiny.* https://imgur.com/GMouTGs http://projecteuler.net/profile/Sahuagin.png <cite>Sahuagin posted [p:908838140] in Why do so ... [t:77006156]...</cite> <quote><cite>Muscles posted...</cite> <quote>Orcs were invented by Tolkien though, they may have been inspired by something else but he invented the word and the race as we know them despite the inspiration for them predating Tolkien </quote> I think he very specifically did not invent the word orc. he invented the word hobbit, and about the only thing missing from modern fantasy is the word hobbit. (possibly also "balrog", at least when referencing a big red demon.) I don't know why, but it seems you can use the same name as long as it doesn't apply to the same concept (balrog in street fighter), or use the same (or very similar) concept as long as it doesn't have the same name (halflings in D&D; note that Tolkien didn't coin the word halfling either, so I guess it's fair game).</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Cruddy_horse 09/16/18 4:00:46 AM #10:	Because it's a race all to easy to shove in. I wish more fantasy works would incorporate a mostly original racial roster but that's probably more effort than most creators are willing to put in. --- equo ne credite! <cite>Cruddy_horse posted [p:908845881] in Why do so ... [t:77006156]...</cite> <quote>Because it's a race all to easy to shove in. I wish more fantasy works would incorporate a mostly original racial roster but that's probably more effort than most creators are willing to put in.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Gaawa_chan 09/16/18 4:24:31 AM #11:	Muscles posted... Orcs were invented by Tolkien though No. Orc = goblin. Something that Peter Jackson apparently missed when he included a line in his movies about cross-breeding orcs with "goblin-men." Pft. I think the word is Germanic in its origins but I'd have to double-check; it's been a while since I read up on Tolkien's work. It should be noted that Tolkien's depiction of orcs differs quite a bit from what we typically see today. They aren't really similar to, say, Warcraft orcs. Tolkien invented hobbits while he was in the trenches in WW1. One could also make the argument that he invented Balrogs, but Tolkien's balrogs are heavily tied to his setting (corrupted Maia- Gandalf, Saruman, and Sauron are all Maia as well- basically fallen angels), and other depictions of balrogs since Tolkien just seem to be... a class of fire-related demons, so they take the name and the fire and leave everything else. Pretty much everything he wrote was rooted in something already established in myth/fantasy, not that that's a bad thing. Cruddy_horse posted... Because it's a race all to easy to shove in. I wish more fantasy works would incorporate a mostly original racial roster but that's probably more effort than most creators are willing to put in. It's usually either the traditional fantasy races, the "humans crossed with animal X" race, and/or the "mascot" race, heh. --- Hi <cite>Gaawa_chan posted [p:908846387] in Why do so ... [t:77006156]...</cite> <quote><cite>Muscles posted...</cite> <quote>Orcs were invented by Tolkien though</quote> No. Orc = goblin. Something that Peter Jackson apparently missed when he included a line in his movies about cross-breeding orcs with "goblin-men." Pft. I think the word is Germanic in its origins but I'd have to double-check; it's been a while since I read up on Tolkien's work. It should be noted that Tolkien's depiction of orcs differs quite a bit from what we typically see today. They aren't really similar to, say, Warcraft orcs. Tolkien invented hobbits while he was in the trenches in WW1. One could also make the argument that he invented Balrogs, but Tolkien's balrogs are heavily tied to his setting (corrupted Maia- Gandalf, Saruman, and Sauron are all Maia as well- basically fallen angels), and other depictions of balrogs since Tolkien just seem to be... a class of fire-related demons, so they take the name and the fire and leave everything else. Pretty much everything he wrote was rooted in something already established in myth/fantasy, not that that's a bad thing. <cite>Cruddy_horse posted...</cite> <quote>Because it's a race all to easy to shove in. I wish more fantasy works would incorporate a mostly original racial roster but that's probably more effort than most creators are willing to put in.</quote> It's usually either the traditional fantasy races, the "humans crossed with animal X" race, and/or the "mascot" race, heh.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sahuagin 09/16/18 11:29:33 AM #12:	Gaawa_chan posted... They aren't really similar to, say, Warcraft orcs. yeah, in LotR, "orcs" are more like goblins (the books even say goblins and orcs are the same thing), and Uruk-Hai are a little more like what we think of as orcs. Gaawa_chan posted... a class of fire-related demons, so they take the name and the fire and leave everything else. I've seen fire demons that carry a sword and a whip/flail, but were not named "Balrog". it should be as non-existent as a halfling race named "Hobbit". eg: it's hard to make out, but one of Fire's magical creatures is a balrog, and I always call it a balrog, but I'm pretty sure in-game it's just called "Demon" (I probably have this chart somewhere in my storage room but I'm too lazy to go look for it): --- *The truth basks in scrutiny.* https://imgur.com/GMouTGs http://projecteuler.net/profile/Sahuagin.png <cite>Sahuagin posted [p:908856885] in Why do so ... [t:77006156]...</cite> <quote><cite>Gaawa_chan posted...</cite> <quote>They aren't really similar to, say, Warcraft orcs.</quote> yeah, in LotR, "orcs" are more like goblins (the books even say goblins and orcs are the same thing), and Uruk-Hai are a little more like what we think of as orcs. <cite>Gaawa_chan posted...</cite> <quote>a class of fire-related demons, so they take the name and the fire and leave everything else.</quote> I've seen fire demons that carry a sword and a whip/flail, but were not named "Balrog". it should be as non-existent as a halfling race named "Hobbit". eg: it's hard to make out, but one of Fire's magical creatures is a balrog, and I always call it a balrog, but I'm pretty sure in-game it's just called "Demon" (I probably have this chart somewhere in my storage room but I'm too lazy to go look for it): </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Blighboy 09/16/18 11:40:49 AM #13:	Tolkien didn't invent the word orc but it wasn't really used previously in the way he used it. I believe historically it was more used to refer to sea monsters. But as others have already mentioned, there's surprisingly few similarities between modern fantasy and Tolkien orcs. The closest analogue to Tolkien orcs I can think of in modern high fantasy are the Skaven from Warhammer (who are much more similar to Tolkien orcs than Warhammer orcs are). I think Tolkien's frequent use of the word goblin to refer to his orcs is what allowed people to borrow the concept from him so easily. Terms like Uruk (which IIRC is just the orcish word for orc) don't get thrown around so much, except by Shadow of Mordor where they're deliberately trying to distinguish Tolkien high fantasy from modern high fantasy. Interestingly there was a big thing a few years ago where Games Workshop tried to ungenericize a lot of the Warhammer fantasy terms they used so other companies couldn't rip them off so much. I can't remember if they changed orc or not. --- https://i.imgtc.com/s5SZnYd.jpg <cite>Blighboy posted [p:908857425] in Why do so ... [t:77006156]...</cite> <quote>Tolkien didn't invent the word orc but it wasn't really used previously in the way he used it. I believe historically it was more used to refer to sea monsters. But as others have already mentioned, there's surprisingly few similarities between modern fantasy and Tolkien orcs. The closest analogue to Tolkien orcs I can think of in modern high fantasy are the Skaven from Warhammer (who are much more similar to Tolkien orcs than Warhammer orcs are). I think Tolkien's frequent use of the word goblin to refer to his orcs is what allowed people to borrow the concept from him so easily. Terms like Uruk (which IIRC is just the orcish word for orc) don't get thrown around so much, except by Shadow of Mordor where they're deliberately trying to distinguish Tolkien high fantasy from modern high fantasy. Interestingly there was a big thing a few years ago where Games Workshop tried to ungenericize a lot of the Warhammer fantasy terms they used so other companies couldn't rip them off so much. I can't remember if they changed orc or not.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
captpackrat 09/16/18 1:31:49 PM #14:	Tolkien changed the spelling of a lot of existing words. Ork became Orc, Elfish became Elvish, Dwarfs became Dwarves, Halfling is derived from the Scots word hauflin, a half-grown boy. <cite>captpackrat posted [p:908863093] in Why do so ... [t:77006156]...</cite> <quote>Tolkien changed the spelling of a lot of existing words. Ork became Orc, Elfish became Elvish, Dwarfs became Dwarves, Halfling is derived from the Scots word hauflin, a half-grown boy.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 09/16/18 1:42:46 PM #15:	Muscles posted... They aren't allowed to use Hobbits because Tolkien made those, but he also made Orcs He didn't make orcs, and hobbits are used elsewhere but not called hobbits (ie, D&D's halflings) Muscles posted... Fantasy is usually not white guys vs black guys or white guys vs muslims though It's just guys vs non humans Completely untrue. Human vs human appears in fantasy all the time. Getting the impression you're just trolling... JOExHIGASHI posted... DPsx7 posted... Same reason you see so many damn zombies anymore. If you use any other group (short of Nazi's or something) then some group somewhere is going to complain about discrimination. Modern zombies are used everywhere because the person that created them didn't have a copyright symbol in the movie so technically his zombies were not copyrighted which means anybody could use them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Living_Dead#Copyright_status_and_home_media That and zombies have real-world mythology and history on top of it. It's kind of like how mummies have become a stock movie monster despite the fact that most of the tropes associated with mummies come from movies. Blighboy posted... But as others have already mentioned, there's surprisingly few similarities between modern fantasy and Tolkien orcs. The closest analogue to Tolkien orcs I can think of in modern high fantasy are the Skaven from Warhammer (who are much more similar to Tolkien orcs than Warhammer orcs are). You mean the rat-people? --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:908863718] in Why do so ... [t:77006156]...</cite> <quote><cite>Muscles posted...</cite> <quote>They aren't allowed to use Hobbits because Tolkien made those, but he also made Orcs</quote> He didn't make orcs, and hobbits are used elsewhere but not called hobbits (ie, D&D's halflings) <cite>Muscles posted...</cite> <quote>Fantasy is usually not white guys vs black guys or white guys vs muslims though It's just guys vs non humans</quote> Completely untrue. Human vs human appears in fantasy all the time. Getting the impression you're just trolling... <cite>JOExHIGASHI posted...</cite> <quote><cite>DPsx7 posted...</cite> <quote>Same reason you see so many damn zombies anymore. If you use any other group (short of Nazi's or something) then some group somewhere is going to complain about discrimination.</quote> Modern zombies are used everywhere because the person that created them didn't have a copyright symbol in the movie so technically his zombies were not copyrighted which means anybody could use them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Living_Dead#Copyright_status_and_home_media</quote> That and zombies have real-world mythology and history on top of it. It's kind of like how mummies have become a stock movie monster despite the fact that most of the tropes associated with mummies come from movies. <cite>Blighboy posted...</cite> <quote>But as others have already mentioned, there's surprisingly few similarities between modern fantasy and Tolkien orcs. The closest analogue to Tolkien orcs I can think of in modern high fantasy are the Skaven from Warhammer (who are much more similar to Tolkien orcs than Warhammer orcs are). </quote> You mean the rat-people?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
dainkinkaide 09/16/18 2:05:39 PM #16:	Early Modern English "orc" meant "large sea creature", from French "orque"/Latin "orca", meaning "large sea creature/type of whale". Old English "orc" meant "demon/hell", from Latin "orcus", meaning "underworld". The other Modern English "orc" comes from Italian "orco", meaning "man-eating giant" or "ogre". All of these technically predate Tolkien's usage, so the name is totally safe for everyone to use. --- The problem with the internet today is that it's filled with entire generations that did not grow up with the great wisdom of the Wyld Stallyns. <cite>dainkinkaide posted [p:908865074] in Why do so ... [t:77006156]...</cite> <quote>Early Modern English "orc" meant "large sea creature", from French "orque"/Latin "orca", meaning "large sea creature/type of whale". Old English "orc" meant "demon/hell", from Latin "orcus", meaning "underworld". The other Modern English "orc" comes from Italian "orco", meaning "man-eating giant" or "ogre". All of these technically predate Tolkien's usage, so the name is totally safe for everyone to use.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JOExHIGASHI 09/16/18 2:09:19 PM #17:	dainkinkaide posted... Early Modern English "orc" meant "large sea creature", from French "orque"/Latin "orca", meaning "large sea creature/type of whale". Old English "orc" meant "demon/hell", from Latin "orcus", meaning "underworld". The other Modern English "orc" comes from Italian "orco", meaning "man-eating giant" or "ogre". All of these technically predate Tolkien's usage, so the name is totally safe for everyone to use. Did Tolkein invent the modern depiction of orcs too. Green skin, tusks, warrior, etc. --- Next Xbox will be named Xbox1 2 <cite>JOExHIGASHI posted [p:908865291] in Why do so ... [t:77006156]...</cite> <quote><cite>dainkinkaide posted...</cite> <quote>Early Modern English "orc" meant "large sea creature", from French "orque"/Latin "orca", meaning "large sea creature/type of whale". Old English "orc" meant "demon/hell", from Latin "orcus", meaning "underworld". The other Modern English "orc" comes from Italian "orco", meaning "man-eating giant" or "ogre". All of these technically predate Tolkien's usage, so the name is totally safe for everyone to use.</quote> Did Tolkein invent the modern depiction of orcs too. Green skin, tusks, warrior, etc.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Blighboy 09/16/18 2:19:42 PM #18:	I dont think Tolkiens orcs had green skin or tusks. At least they dont in the PJ films. I could be mistaken. Zeus posted... You mean the rat-people? Yeah. In terms of their personality and role in the world they're quite similar to Tolkien's orcs/goblins. They live underground, they're weak and frail, cowardly and treacherous, always chaotic evil, worship evil wizards, have a large slave underclass, surprisingly technologically advanced. These are the traits which defined Tolkiens orcs and are largely absent from many modern depictions of orcs, which are often presented as a sort of noble savage warrior race. --- https://i.imgtc.com/s5SZnYd.jpg <cite>Blighboy posted [p:908865914] in Why do so ... [t:77006156]...</cite> <quote>I dont think Tolkiens orcs had green skin or tusks. At least they dont in the PJ films. I could be mistaken. <cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote>You mean the rat-people?</quote> Yeah. In terms of their personality and role in the world they're quite similar to Tolkien's orcs/goblins. They live underground, they're weak and frail, cowardly and treacherous, always chaotic evil, worship evil wizards, have a large slave underclass, surprisingly technologically advanced. These are the traits which defined Tolkiens orcs and are largely absent from many modern depictions of orcs, which are often presented as a sort of noble savage warrior race.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Poll of the Day > Why do so many fantasy games use Orcs? (+) Yeah! (+)

Poll of the Day > Why do so many fantasy games use Orcs?