Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 192: Manafort and a Storm

(+) Yeah! (+)

Reg posted...

BeTheMan posted...

Corrik posted...

Panthera posted...

BeTheMan posted...

It's always interesting to see how people's deep-seated beliefs in the presumption of innocence just shrivel up and die when it comes to drone strikes.

Well, if you say it's interesting, I'll take your word for it. I'm interested, so show me where that happened around here so I can have something neat to read.

You are comparing American citizens to non-citizens. Have the US government drone strike someone in America and watch the system topple.

Big fucking yikes. Literally saying that the extralegal murder of people is ok just because they're not American Citizens, then you're going to turn around and complain when people call you a fucking fascist.

Corrik, get help.

Lmfao
---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

Corrik posted...

I trust Bush's opinion on the matter.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/09/18/politics/george-w-bush-support-kavanaugh/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F

this is dumb, btw. just because you liked GWB as a president doesn't mean he's the ultimate judge of someone's character. it's certainly possible that he's had pleasant experiences with kavanaugh but that doesn't mean the allegations are automatically false.

I didn't say they are false at any point. I said I trust his opinion on the matter until I see something which shows me I shouldn't.
---

I - regrettably - read through most of what I missed here and what sticks out to me is that this whole thing seems spun out of taking something Ulti said at face value when, surprise, he's wrong.

Ford hasn't outright refused to testify. As far as I can tell, no wording by the lawyer says she absolutely won't show on Monday. What it was was saying there should be an FBI investigation to provide information before the hearing. Key word there being "should." Now, granted, such an investigation will almost certainly not happen. I've seen conflicting reporting on the FBI's protocol here so I can't say I'm 100% sure on this, but the best impression I've gotten is that their background checks for presidential appointees go back 10 years (or Age 18, whatever is sooner.) To go further back sounds like they'd need a request from the WH. Which obviously won't happen since Trump has already lied about the FBI "not wanting to be involved" (The FBI responded saying they did not tell Trump or anyone in the WH anything of the sort.)

The lawyer also states that aside from the point about Republicans picking Monday as the date without consulting Ford or her lawyer, that Republicans apparently wanted her to sit at the same table as Kavanaugh. Basically, they loaded up this offer with poison pills in the hopes she won't show because that's their only real play here. The whole thing strikes me as Ford's lawyer giving her own condition for the hearing, which would normally be something negotiated before setting the hearing but again, Republicans are acting in complete bad faith and unilaterally set the terms to intentionally discourage her attending.

She may not attend, given everything swirling around this, and I think that's understandable, but nothing I've seen yet indicates it's been decided 100% either way. I'd probably lean in the direction that she doesn't appear with the information out right now, but Republicans are leaning hard into their spin here so it's comprising most of the news about this.
---

I hate to be in the vicinity of Corrik's side on this one, but due process like any other foundation of a country's laws still only apply to the citizens of that country. Not being in favor of drone strikes is all well and good, but military action has never been under the same set of rules as a nation's laws for governing themselves anywhere.
---

Without having read more than a few words of last night's dumpster fire, presumption of innocence is irrelevant here. This isn't a criminal case where the defendant may go to jail. Oh no, a guy might not get a job that he would get to keep for life. That's not comparable to prison at all.
---

It's really not our fault that an overwhelming majority of Republican nominees happen to be rapists.

PerfectChaosZ posted...

It's really not our fault that an overwhelming majority of Republican nominees happen to be rapists.

Source.
---

kevwaffles posted...

I hate to be in the vicinity of Corrik's side on this one, but due process like any other foundation of a country's laws still only apply to the citizens of that country. Not being in favor of drone strikes is all well and good, but military action has never been under the same set of rules as a nation's laws for governing themselves anywhere.

There's a difference between drone strikes as an explicit act of war and just straight-up extralegal murder.

Especially (but not only) with the push by certain politicians to delegitimize things like birthright citizenship.

Corrik posted...

PerfectChaosZ posted...

It's really not our fault that an overwhelming majority of Republican nominees happen to be rapists.

Source.

Just look at the state of the country, Republicans have been raping the american people of their civil liberties for years.

right argument? wrong argument? :)
---

Obellisk posted...

Corrik posted...

PerfectChaosZ posted...

It's really not our fault that an overwhelming majority of Republican nominees happen to be rapists.

Source.

Just look at the state of the country, Republicans have been raping the american people of their civil liberties for years.

right argument? wrong argument? :)

Does that mean you have a source or not.
---

No i have no idea what he's talking about. I'm just making a joke.
---

Anyways, did the actual contents of Ford's letter get lost in the dumpster fire that was overnight discussion? I think it did.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/18/politics/ford-attorneys-letter-grassley/index.html

As you know, earlier this summer, Dr. Ford sought to tell her story, in confidence, so that lawmakers would have a fuller understanding of Brett Kavanaugh's character and history. Only after the details of her experience were leaked did Dr. Ford make the reluctant decision to come forward publicly.

In the 36 hours since her name became public, Dr. Ford has received a stunning amount of support from her community and from fellow citizens across our country. At the same time, however, her worst fears have materialized. She has been the target of vicious harassment and even death threats. As a result of these kind of threats, her family was forced to relocate out of their home. Her email has been hacked, and she has been impersonated online.

While Dr. Ford's life was being turned upside down, you and your staff scheduled a public hearing for her to testify at the same table as Judge Kavanaugh in front of two dozen U.S. Senators on national television to relive this traumatic and harrowing incident. The hearing was scheduled for six short days from today and would include interrogation by Senators who appear to have made up their minds that she is "mistaken" and "mixed up." While no sexual assault survivor should be subjected to such an ordeal, Dr. Ford wants to cooperate with the Committee and with law enforcement officials

Emphasis mine. Fuck Seph and Corrik for outright lying about this woman's intentions. Fuck all of you for enabling those psychopathic pieces of shit. Fuck Grassley and the Senate Republicans for wanting to hold a rushed sham hearing.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

let's not forget how when #metoo - one of the most significant movements of the 21st century - started, sephy immediately went "LOL THIS MOVEMENT IS TERRIBLE IT'S JUST A SCAM BY FEMINAZIS WHO HATE MEN." i'm used to his terrible neocon stances but it's a new low for him to constantly be a sexual assault apologist.

i mean, the guy straight up admitted to regularly using force to get women to have sex with him. something along the lines of "If i let being told no stop me, i would never get laid" and some other reprehensible shit i've managed to purge the specifics of from my memory

from his perspective, even if kavanaugh actually did do what ford accused him of, he wouldn't think it was actually assault. it's just par for the course of sexual relations for him.
---

pxlated posted...

i mean, the guy straight up admitted to regularly using force to get women to have sex with him. something along the lines of "If i let being told no stop me, i would never get laid" and some other reprehensible s*** i've managed to purge the specifics of from my memory

It's always fun when people flat out make things up and call you a rapist.
---

Reg posted...

Emphasis mine. Fuck Seph and Corrik for outright lying about this woman's intentions. Fuck all of you for enabling those psychopathic pieces of shit. Fuck Grassley and the Senate Republicans for wanting to hold a rushed sham hearing.

Literally no idea what you are talking about. Never said a single thing you just stated I said.

"Surprising"
---

i will admit my memory was a little inaccurate, the exact phrasing of "turning a no into a yes" was someone else (who you agreed with directly)

and that was just a few minutes of going back over that topic, don't care to dive for every instance of this shit
---

pxlated posted...

i will admit my memory was a little inaccurate, the exact phrasing of "turning a no into a yes" was someone else (who you agreed with directly)

and that was just a few minutes of going back over that topic, don't care to dive for every instance of this shit

I don't think the Aziz stuff was actually sexual assault based on the details of the situation, if I remember them correctly.
---

the point of those wasn't to relitigate the aziz situation. i have no interest in that.

it was just to point out the things sephyg said in the discussion about it
---

pxlated posted...

the point of those wasn't to relitigate the aziz situation. i have no interest in that.

it was just to point out the things sephyg said in the discussion about it

I don't think your assertion lines up with the images. Which I think you admitted. I think he has an interesting way of phrasing it however.
---

yes my initial claim was indeed a little offbase. there was so much of that shit flying around and being quoted by others/added onto that my memory didn't keep it all straight.

the end result is still some pretty awful shit from sephyg though.
---

pxlated posted...

yes my initial claim was indeed a little offbase. there was so much of that shit flying around and being quoted by others/added onto that my memory didn't keep it all straight.

the end result is still some pretty awful shit from sephyg though.

Eh, I think the middle one is pretty agreeable. The first is about pushing boundaries to see what type of kinky sex behavior a girl would be acceptable.

The only really questionable one there is the third. Imo.

But even that one is only really bad if you take it the wrong way as in a girl outright saying no and you forcing your hand down her pants and her being like okay.

It seems to be more dealing with your like with a girl and she is eh like I am not in the mood right now and then you kissing her neck or rubbing her thigh or something and getting turned on and wanting to bone. Which is not very uncommon in sexual encounters in relationships moreso. But, he leaves enough vagueness that you could turn it otherwise if you look at it wrong I guess.
---

HarrietTubgirl posted...

It's always fun when people flat out make things up and call you a rapist.

Kinda like Trumps claim about Mexicans on the escalator
---

my issue with that first one is "i've encountered very few women who overtly said yes right away" and then "pushing the boundaries" to turn that into a yes. every women (person, in fact) i've ever had sex with made it unquestionably clear what they wanted/what we were about to do without me having to "push boundaries".

the phrasing on all of them though is pretty vague and with the right spin either way could be far better or worse than they appear initially. I will agree with you on that.

and again, upon rereading that thread, the worst shit came from people that weren't sephyg. i apologize for the claim.
---

in my memory's defense, however, it was probably this interaction that soured my impression of him and led to the attribution of the other statements to him months after the fact


---

https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/politics/2018/04/12/president-trump-nominates-marine-first-black-female-general/33778979/
---

pxlated posted...

in my memory's defense, however, it was probably this interaction that soured my impression of him and led to the attribution of the other statements to him months after the fact

Poor little baby part was in bad taste.
---

Corrik posted...

https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/politics/2018/04/12/president-trump-nominates-marine-first-black-female-general/33778979/

A part of his base wont like that!
---

that, and completely disregarding psychological factors at play in that scenario that would make it hard for someone to give a more stern refusal or leave.

this is getting dangerously close to relitigating that shit now, though.
---

Corrik posted...

https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/politics/2018/04/12/president-trump-nominates-marine-first-black-female-general/33778979/

too tired to actually click this link but judging from the headline this is actually pretty cool.

good on trump.

the cynic in me wants to claim it as an optics distraction from everything else happening but honestly that doesn't really matter. it's a cool thing.
---

Its probably a product of more gender diversity in the military naturally leading to such an appointment, and Trumps not THAT kind of bigot that would hold down a military promotion based on race or gender
---

UltimaterializerX posted...

MeToo is a blatant political movement. Its not even debatable at this point given the garbage that came out about Rose Mcgowan since and how the other girl who started it is a literal statutory rapist.

---

Jakyl25 posted...

Its probably a product of more gender diversity in the military naturally leading to such an appointment, and Trumps not THAT kind of bigot that would hold down a military promotion based on race or gender

No. He is the biggest racist ever.
---

pxlated posted...

in my memory's defense, however, it was probably this interaction that soured my impression of him and led to the attribution of the other statements to him months after the fact

lol @ him using the "she's a 22 year old woman, she's perfectly capable to make decisions about this!" argument when he was recently arguing that people younger than 25 should not be allowed to vote because "their brains are not fully developed yet."

the more you read his posts, the more you realize 99.99% of them are just trolling bullshit.
---

in more news of rape

https://www.newsweek.com/3d-gun-maker-cody-wilson-charged-sexual-assault-paid-teen-sex-arrest-1128929
---

So in my city of Madison, WI we have a black candidate running for a local office. She was canvassing door to door and got stopped by the police for being suspicious. :\
---

TotallyNotMI posted...

So in my city of Madison, WI we have a black candidate running for a local office. She was canvassing door to door and got stopped by the police for being suspicious. :\

oof

that's the kind of thing i would expect to happen here in milwaukee. i thought madison would be a little better than that
---

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2018/09/19/neighbor-calls-cops-black-candidate-campaigning-madison/1356123002/

Stubbs' mother and 8-year-old daughter were accompanying Stubbs that day and waiting in a car for her. A neighbor called police asking them to move the car along because the neighbor believed they were waiting for drugs to be delivered, according to the newspaper.

Holy poop its even worse than I thought.

I know whenever I see a drug deal go down, there's always an old woman and a little kid that accompanies the dealer. They like letting their customers get to know them on a personal basis like that.
---

pxlated posted...

TotallyNotMI posted...

So in my city of Madison, WI we have a black candidate running for a local office. She was canvassing door to door and got stopped by the police for being suspicious. :\

oof

that's the kind of thing i would expect to happen here in milwaukee. i thought madison would be a little better than that

All it takes is one racist asshat to call the cops. Stuff like that can and does happen in every city, unfortunately.

She won the primary, if that is any consolation.
---

I always bring my kids with me when i am looking to score, can't very well leave them at home by themselves can i?
---

She can say no, but she won't.

Because of the implication.
---

Trump just acknoweldged the possibility of credible testimony against Kavanaugh.
---

Seph would make for a boring SVU episode.
---

NFUN posted...

She can say no, but she won't.

Because of the implication.

I've been waiting for somebody to say this
---

Corrik posted...

Why do you think I supported Jeb Bush in the primaries?

Because you frequently make poor decisions?
---

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Corrik posted...

Why do you think I supported Jeb Bush in the primaries?

Because you frequently make poor decisions?

Woulda beat Hillary easily.
---

I should've said 1 for 2 recently my b
---

Corrik posted...

Woulda beat Hillary easily.

doesn't mean he was a good candidate. because he wasn't.

yeah, i'd take jeb! over trump but that's not saying much.
---

Corrik posted...

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Corrik posted...

Why do you think I supported Jeb Bush in the primaries?

Because you frequently make poor decisions?

Woulda beat Hillary easily.

After W, i dont think any Bush would have stood a chance getting into the white house again.

W is a good man, he really is, he just wasn't a good president and he didn't do great things for the bush name.
---

jeb did so awful in the primaries that he dropped out after the third state, where he spent the remainder of his funds and still only got 8% of the vote.

not saying that decisively means he wouldn't beat hillary, but trump didn't win by a large margin. i really doubt jeb would have won, and it absolutely would not have been "easily"
---