Poll of the Day > Conservative Michigan Couple SOB in HORROR as they are charged with MURDER!!!

(+) Yeah! (+)

27 y/o Conservative Christian Kooks, Seth Welch and Tatiana Fusari Sobbed in HORROR and in SHOCK as a judge said they were being charged with MURDER after they let their 10 month old girl die of malnutrition and dehydration after they refused medical treatment for religious reasons!!

They now face life in prison for the murder of their daughter, Mary as incredible footage showed their reaction when the judge announced the sentence as their mouthes were wide open and start sobbing uncontrollably

First responders found Mary with sunken eyes and cheeks after Seth said he found his daughter dead in her crib but an autopsy said she died of malnutrition and dehydration due to neglect by caregivers.

They were brought in for questioning where they admitted they noticed their daughter was too skinny but didn't seek help for fear of having Child Protective Services called, lack of faith and trust in traditional medicine and religious reasons.

Seth posted about CPS, a distrust of doctors and his religious beliefs on FB in rambling videos as he refused to get his child vaccinated and said "GOD IS SOVEREIGN OVER DISEASE" and dismissed doctors as "priesthoods of the medical cult"

He posted his heartbreak over his daughters on death on his FB stating her found her dead in the morning and said she was with GRANDMA and GRANDPA now.

Their house is decorated with christian nobility and advertised his beliefs on hand painted signs nailed ot trees that said "Repent. Believe. Obey"

He also refused to get his daughter vaccinated who said "It didn't seem smart that you would be saving people who weren't the FITTEST. If evolution believes in survival of the fittest, why are we vaccinating everybody? Shouldn't we just let the weak die off and let the strong survive? They are beneath us".

Seth is also an Alex Jones listener as he posts several videos on his facebook and his distrust of government and LIBERALS.

Their 2 eldest children have been taken away and Tatiana is having a FOURTH child which will also be taken away.

Do you think what these Conservative Freaks did was Murder?

Seth and Tatiana - Goombas

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/08/07/23/4EE950AA00000578-6037213-image-a-32_1533680391460.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/08/07/23/4EE95FA500000578-6037213-image-m-29_1533680358744.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/08/07/23/4EE95FA100000578-6037213-image-a-30_1533680365424.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/08/07/23/4EE950C200000578-6037213-image-m-27_1533680343882.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/08/07/23/4EE950BE00000578-6037213-image-a-28_1533680350868.jpg

Mary - Deceased

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/08/07/23/4EE95F9D00000578-6037213-image-a-21_1533680293177.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/08/08/00/4EE950BA00000578-6037213-First_responders_found_Mary_pictured_in_an_undated_Facebook_phot-m-1_1533683226930.jpg
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What were they expecting? The investigation after a young child dies is always very strict.
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Zangulus posted...

Tell that to all the times parents leave their kid in a car to cook to death and theyre not even charged because theyve already suffered enough.

Wait what? Like in this case, I'd expect usually a main motivation is to protect the other kids from their parents.
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I'm not so quick to condemn every parent that leaves their child in a car. Lots of people have routines or daily habits. Your brain gets wired to run through your usual routines.

Let's say that 95% of the time, the mother brings the child to daycare, but mom has a dentist appointment and asks the father to do it. Father gets the kid in the car, kid falls asleep and isn't making any noise, father goes to work out of habit... You see where I'm going. It could happen to anyone.

Not all cases are like that, but some are, and those are the ones that lead me to believe the parents have suffered enough. They have to live with that immense guilt for the rest of their lives. What good would a prison term do? Especially if they have other kids, then you're just hurting the family further. Nothing can bring the child back once they're gone, and I don't believe justice for the child should include punishing the whole family more than they've already endured.

In cases where people run into Walmart and shop for 45 minutes, knowingly leaving kids in the car because they think they'll just run in and out real quick and don't want to disturb their nap? Yeah, fuck those people.

But there are most certainly cases where the parents made a genuine mistake. An egregious, terrible mistake, absolutely. But a mistake nonetheless. And they've most certainly suffered more in their own guilt and incompetence than any prison sentence could possibly make for more "sensible" justice.
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I know a woman who had her kids taken away after her little girl died in the bathtub. IIRC, there were two kids in the tub. She was with them in the bathroom for most of the time. She forgot to get clothes for them afterwards, though. So, she got up to get clothes. And when she got back, the little girl was under the water. I don't recall how high they said the water was. And she wasn't gone for too long, but it was long enough. She was already suffering, and then they took her other kid(s) away... I don't remember if she had one or two more.
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How did they expect God to protect their baby from a lack of food?
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Hence me saying the investigation is strict and thorough. The resultant course of action would depend on the outcomes of that investigation.
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Zangulus posted...

Nichtcrawler X posted...

What were they expecting? The investigation after a young child dies is always very strict.

Tell that to all the times parents leave their kid in a car to cook to death and theyre not even charged because theyve already suffered enough.

I mean, if we're going with criminal charges and sentences as a means to deter them from ever committing the crime again, having a child die as a result of an honest mistake may well be more deterrent than a prison sentence could ever be. I think it largely boils down to how repentant the parents are as a consequence of their loss. There was a case in Alberta a couple years ago where a toddler died of meningitis after his parents tried treating him with naturopathic remedies instead of going to a doctor. That one ended up being controversial because it was challenging the parents' right to treat their child how they saw fit for what they believed was croup, ultimately boiling down to the fact that they had both a naturopath and a nurse friend tell them he needed to go to a hospital (at one point, he was so stiff that they had to drive him around on an air mattress because they couldn't get him into his car seat), and they disregarded that until it was too late (they took him to a hospital after they found him not breathing).

What swayed my opinion on that case was the fact that, rather than admitting fault, the parents are still denying any sort of wrongdoing. The father (who coincidentally has some degree of ownership a line of naturopathic products) spent his prescribed three months in jail, and they're still working to appeal the ruling (they were granted the appeal on the grounds that the jury didn't receive adequate instruction from the judge and there was too much medical jargon from the expert witnesses). Everything about their conduct says "I would do it again," which means their attitudes and behaviours need to be changed. There's a world of difference between that and somebody who is devastated by the loss of their child and will move heaven and earth to keep it from happening again.

Here, they don't exactly sound repentant. This also goes beyond carelessness because they chose to conceal what they knew was a medical problem. There's ample reason to expect that they will similarly neglect their other children, so a harsher penalty is warranted.
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Full Throttle posted...

27 y/o Conservative Christian Kooks, Seth Welch and Tatiana Fusari Sobbed in HORROR and in SHOCK as a judge said they were being charged with MURDER after they let their 10 month old girl die of malnutrition and dehydration after they refused medical treatment for religious reasons!!

In a nation with legalized abortion, punishing parents of a newborn seems kinda silly. Not to mention that, as already noted, other parents whose kids die from a neglectful action aren't charged for it.

Full Throttle posted...

Do you think what these christian freaks did was murder?

Considering that murder requires intent, obviously not.
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Zeus posted...

In a nation with legalized abortion, punishing parents of a newborn seems kinda silly.

No? In a country with legal abortion, it becomes much more of an active decision to actually have that newborn and thus the responsibilities increase.
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Nichtcrawler X posted...

Zeus posted...

In a nation with legalized abortion, punishing parents of a newborn seems kinda silly.

No? In a country with legal abortion, it becomes much more of an active decision to actually have that newborn and thus the responsibilities increase.

No, it doesn't. A nation with legalized abortion values the sanctity of a child's life far less than a nation that protects children in the womb. Especially because advocates are pushing for even later term abortions and because other abortion-friendly nations support infanticide. And even your "active decision" argument undercuts what you're trying to say, considering that it puts more choice regarding life or death in the hands of the parent which jives with this.
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death penalty
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Zeus posted...

In a nation with legalized abortion, punishing parents of a newborn seems kinda silly.

Come on Zeus, you're better than that.

Zeus posted...

Not to mention that, as already noted, other parents whose kids die from a neglectful action aren't charged for it.

Which largely boils down to a combination of culpability and how willing they are to repent versus reoffending. Here, they were very culpable and don't seem like they're about to change their ways to ensure the safety of their other children.

Zeus posted...

Considering that murder requires intent, obviously not.

They noticed the child was too thin but chose not to seek any sort of help. Where doing nothing could reasonably be expected to cause the child's death, choosing to do so therefore qualifies as intentionally killing the child.

_AdjI_ posted...

Zeus posted...

In a nation with legalized abortion, punishing parents of a newborn seems kinda silly.

Come on Zeus, you're better than that.

Search your heart, you know my words to be true.

_AdjI_ posted...

Zeus posted...

Not to mention that, as already noted, other parents whose kids die from a neglectful action aren't charged for it.

Which largely boils down to a combination of culpability and how willing they are to repent versus reoffending. Here, they were very culpable and don't seem like they're about to change their ways to ensure the safety of their other children.

Which, at best, is an argument for taking the kids away, not for charging the parents. However, given that the kids are still newborns, there's probably not much point terminating custodial rights unless you also laying claim to children in the womb.

_AdjI_ posted...

Zeus posted...

Considering that murder requires intent, obviously not.

They noticed the child was too thin but chose not to seek any sort of help. Where doing nothing could reasonably be expected to cause the child's death, choosing to do so therefore qualifies as intentionally killing the child.

That's still not intent. Nothing has demonstrated that the parents even wanted the child to die.
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onsidering that murder requires intent, obviously not.

I dont think this is correct. According to something somebody posted on the politcs ducky thread

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Felony murder, guys. The charges are first degree child abuse, which satisfies the requisite for felony murder to bump up second degree murder to be punished as first degree murder under Michigan law. Ie, a death caused by reckless disregard for human life, when coupled with the child abuse charge, becomes punishable as first degree murder.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/christian-couple-baby-girl-starvation-dead-michigan-seth-welch-tatiana-fusari-mary-a8482311.html

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(uxds1s0cfsorohuwhgpx3ern))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-750-316"

Zeus posted...

No, it doesn't. A nation with legalized abortion values the sanctity of a child's life far less than a nation that protects children in the womb.

It is just a further clarification of what murder is and what is not. Defined boundaries are very important when it comes to laws, so as to reduce ambiguity.

Zeus posted...

And even your "active decision" argument undercuts what you're trying to say, considering that it puts more choice regarding life or death in the hands of the parent which jives with this.

It just gives a time frame when the choice has to be made, after that time frame the results of the decision are your legal responsibility.
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fuck them
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I thought a charge of murder requires evidence of intent.

argonautweakend posted...

Felony murder, guys. The charges are first degree child abuse, which satisfies the requisite for felony murder to bump up second degree murder to be punished as first degree murder under Michigan law. Ie, a death caused by reckless disregard for human life, when coupled with the child abuse charge, becomes punishable as first degree murder.

What alchemy is this? There was a single action here, neglect. There should a singular punishment for a singular crime.
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VeeVees posted...

Death penalty.

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@Kyuubi4269
Posted before I read the other replies. Started editing before you quoted.
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