Current Events > Polygon: Gaming's toxic men, explained

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.polygon.com/2018/7/25/17593516/video-game-culture-toxic-men-explained

his story is not another attempt to chronicle the activities of racist and misogynist men who harass women and people of color on social media and in multiplayer games.

Nor is it an existential inquiry into their particular niche in the video game community. Rather, this story asks: Where do they come from? Why they are here? And what allows them to stay?

What follows are interviews under a variety of rubrics with 11 writers and academics who have studied and published useful work on the problem of misogyny and racism in gaming and in popular entertainment. Most have experienced harassment and abuse from toxic gamers.

How did we get here?

Gaming has attracted (or spawned) many angry young men who are comfortable with harassing and abusing women. How did that come about?

Kate Miltner (Miltner is a Ph.D. candidate at the Annenberg School for Communication and Journalism at the University of Southern California, specializing in technology and culture.):

Im a feminist media scholar, and as such, I dont believe in gender essentialism. While sex is biological, gender is a social construct. We are trained from childhood to behave in certain gendered ways.

Theres an often promoted belief amongst certain people within the worlds of gaming and tech that technology is naturally, even biologically, the domain of men. This is usually based in the idea that men are naturally logical and women are naturally emotional. It completely negates the fact that computer programming was originally a feminized profession.

With the first computers, hardware design was considered to be the big challenge, and therefore was considered to be in the male domain. Programming was seen to be menial labor, like secretarial work. It was boring and repetitive, so they decided it was work for the women to do.

In the 1960s, when it became clear that programmers actually had a lot of autonomy and were really in demand, employers started to emphasize the fact that programming was creative work, and so men started to come into the profession. A lot of stereotypes about who was good at computer programming went into the hiring process, and that largely contributed to the computing culture we see today. The women whod been working in programming were edged out. Not only were their contributions undervalued, but the culture they were working in was unwelcoming to women.

A lot of stuff to dig through in the article. I rolled my eyes at the headline but there's a lot of interesting points and perspectives raised here.
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tag.
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Can't wait for the REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEing from Kotaku in Action.
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Why do so many of these men labor under a delusion of heroism?

Serial harassers and men who display toxic behavior often portray themselves as heroic defenders of a noble cause.

Paul Booth:
Ive researched toxic fan activity, which I call protective fandom. These groups are not merely forming around a particular text or a particular medium. They see themselves as the protector of it. They see themselves as the line between what they want it to be and what other people want it to be.

This certainly rings a bell with geek culture on social media these days.
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Polygon is toxic
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Damn_Underscore posted...

Polygon is toxic

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A lot of toxic people just want to be free to be toxic. I remember one time I asked a gamer he sounded like a white dude and he was using the N-word towards another player who sounded black so I asked him in a private chat, Are you a racist? He said, No, Im not racist. Im just being funny. I just say that to get under peoples skin, to get a rise out of them. Im really not being racist. My best friend is black.

He was using all this language and really just being toxic online.

It didnt matter to him that he harmed somebody. I dont think hes really focused on the real world around him, or the ramifications of what his speech is actually doing. Hes just having a good time.

I hate it when people say, Oh its just some fat kids in their mamas basement. No. These are college students; these are people in the office. These are regular dudes that I would see at Applebees and Starbucks. I hate whenever we try to profile and label them so we can other them.

They are regular-assed average white dudes. I wish people would stop saying its just children. These are co-workers, these are people who make our coffee, people we go bowling with.

Damn
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what about men who are harassed in online gaming?

Why does polygon even have an article about this? I thought it was for game and tech reviews and stuff like that, not pushing left wing politics. No wonder gamergate was a thing
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My god. People on the internet are terrible?1?!,!?

JESUS CHRIST JIM CALL THE NEWSPAPER PEOPLE

Ill be happy when the growing pains of all the normies getting internet access ends. This is the equivalent of a suburban Karen discovering 4chan and thinking shes bringing some terrible "secret" to light when she bitches about it to everyone.
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Polygon is garbage
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MakoReizei posted...

what about men who are harassed in online gaming?

Why does polygon even have an article about this? I thought it was for game and tech reviews and stuff like that, not pushing left wing politics. No wonder gamergate was a thing

Polygon has always advertised themselves as a site that does these long in-depth stories.

CommonJoe posted...

My god. People on the internet are terrible?1?!,!?

JESUS CHRIST JIM CALL THE NEWSPAPER PEOPLE

Ill be happy when the growing pains of all the normies getting internet access ends. This is the equivalent of a suburban Karen discovering 4chan and thinking shes bringing some terrible "secret" to light when she bitches about it to everyone.

What are you even talking about? This has absolutely nothing to do with the content in the article.
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How does this explain toxic women in gaming like Jessica Price?
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ManBeast462 posted...

How does this explain toxic women in gaming like Jessica Price?

It's about the toxic men so it doesn't.
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White men are evil, more at 11.

men can't be toxic tho, it's all lies fabricated by hefty spandex-clad women to make us men looks bad.
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I always thought it had more to do with gaming starting out (or re-emerging after the crash) with a relatively narrow audience of males. Video games were, at one point, primarily a refuge for socially awkward / scorned boys. The industry has exploded into the mainstream over the past 20 - 25 years, but there's this underlying culture, held over from the early days. Those boys (who are now adult men) feel a certain ownership over the domain of games because they bought into it early, were teased about it during their formative years and now it's become a hardened part of their identity.

But that's just my own half-baked view, based largely on personal experience. I haven't read the article yet; tag for later.
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But when you challenge anyone who feels like that persecution is part of their identity, it just makes them angrier. Theyre like people who believe in conspiracies.

Persecution Complex

Although originally a psychological term, persecution complex is now often used as media shorthand for broad sections of society who hold the view that they are the oppressed victims in a conspiracy to deprive them of long cherished rights. Often, those suffering from this delusion are unable to distinguish rights from privileges.

They pull out all kinds of facts and figures about why white men are the most persecuted in Western society. They really believe it, and will jump on anything that allows them to embrace that persecuted identity more fully.

Psychologically, I understand that. Its easier than saying, Oh, Im part of a privileged group and still things suck for me. Because that makes you more of a loser. I cant get anything I want and also Ive got it better off than anyone else? Thats not a comfortable thing to have to accept.

Already seeing that starting in this topic
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Polycosm posted...

I always thought it had more to do with gaming starting out (or re-emerging after the crash) with a relatively narrow audience of males. Video games were, at one point, primarily a refuge for socially awkward / scorned boys. The industry has exploded into the mainstream over the past 20 - 25 years, but there's this underlying culture, held over from the early days. Those boys (who are now adult men) feel a certain ownership over the domain of games because they bought into it early, were teased about it during their formative years and now it's become a hardened part of their identity.

But that's just my own half-baked view, based largely on personal experience. I haven't read the article yet; tag for later.

You're pretty close to what a lot of people in the article are saying yeah.
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Darmik posted...

ManBeast462 posted...

How does this explain toxic women in gaming like Jessica Price?

It's about the toxic men so it doesn't.

when is it not about toxic men tbh
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MakoReizei posted...

Darmik posted...

ManBeast462 posted...

How does this explain toxic women in gaming like Jessica Price?

It's about the toxic men so it doesn't.

when is it not about toxic men tbh

Probably more on sites and cultures that are dominated by women. The Ana and Mia Tumblr's for example.
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This sounds like hate speech against white male gamers.
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Yes Jimmy shouts the n word because society told him women are bad at coding not because he thinks it's funny
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Boy, they sure like to use the word "toxic".

Also, after reading your copies excerpts, I don't see any interesting points or perspectives. Nothing that hasn't already been parroted by other social justice activist types many times before.

It really comes seems like a lot of the same (white, straight) male gamers are a problem. Let's all nod in agreement about what a problem they are.

Did they have any point of view that wasn't part of that chorus? That, coming from Polygon, would be more interesting.
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The War on (cis white) Men continues.
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I dunno personally I've never had many real "toxic male gamer" incidents in my hours online

I wonder if different games have different "toxic male gamer" populations. I don't play Call of Duty or Battlefield
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Esrac posted...

It really comes seems like a lot of the same (white, straight) male gamers are a problem. Let's all nod in agreement about what a problem they are

Theres a difference between white, straight, male gamers and the toxic gamers who generally are white, male gamers.

The article is about the latter. Yet people constantly like to bundle themselves into that group for some reason.
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Doe posted...

I dunno personally I've never had many real "toxic male gamer" incidents in my hours online

I wonder if different games have different "toxic male gamer" populations. I don't play Call of Duty or Battlefield

It's bad on call of duty ghosts, there are some really toxic players. Some have no respect for women and won't hesitate to be vulgar towards women.
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Doe posted...

I dunno personally I've never had many real "toxic male gamer" incidents in my hours online

I wonder if different games have different "toxic male gamer" populations. I don't play Call of Duty or Battlefield

Are you a woman, black or have an accent?

Or have you heard racist and sexist humour even if you aren't?
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Darmik posted...

Im a feminist media scholar

topic list
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Imagine trying to discuss something like patterns and correlations of the crime rate.

Youd be call rayciss.

Somehow studies like these get a pass though.
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PonyLivesMatter posted...

Imagine trying to discuss something like patterns and correlations of the crime rate.

Youd be call rayciss.

Somehow studies like these get a pass though.

It really depends on what your conclusions are. No one is saying that white people are inherently like it.
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Darmik posted...

It didnt matter to him that he harmed somebody. I dont think hes really focused on the real world around him, or the ramifications of what his speech is actually doing. Hes just having a good time.

This is a weird excerpt because it and the article implies this is the mystical culture of The Toxic Male Gamer and not how nearly all shit (of which there are many) human beings behave on the internet.

It's not like the people being described are totally undetectable until they think they hear a woman or minority. They will attack anyone. They use homophobic slurs, or racial slurs, or misogynistic words, or anything offensive because that's the point of saying those words. Expressing anger in that way feels good for them and it has the bonus points of triggering other people who are easily offended or hurt and dragging those people down to their anger.

Never have I ever heard anybody in an online game get 'offended' that a woman is playing a videogame or something like that. Is it like a CoD or Battlefield thing? Similarly if a girl had played Yugioh or Magic or TF2 at my high school people would have been ecstatic, not upset.

I wouldn't care about any of this except apparently it leads to Ubisoft banning you for daring to speak in Spanish to people on their servers
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Polycosm posted...

I always thought it had more to do with gaming starting out (or re-emerging after the crash) with a relatively narrow audience of males. Video games were, at one point, primarily a refuge for socially awkward / scorned boys. The industry has exploded into the mainstream over the past 20 - 25 years, but there's this underlying culture, held over from the early days. Those boys (who are now adult men) feel a certain ownership over the domain of games because they bought into it early, were teased about it during their formative years and now it's become a hardened part of their identity.

But that's just my own half-baked view, based largely on personal experience. I haven't read the article yet; tag for later.

I've heard something similar described once. Basically, those scorned and bullied nerdy boys and young men were the early adopters of geek culture. Comics, gaming, etc. They, as the primary consumers and creators (though I think we are probably talking mostly about the consumers here), built the industry through their spending and development. Yes, at least partly as a refuge from normal society that shit on them.

But at some point, geek culture became more socially acceptable and the normal people who didn't nourish the culture in its infancy started to push in and try to set new rules and ostracize those nerds in their own subculture.

Basically, as they may see it, those nerds who built geek culture had their refuge from the normies who shit on them. Those normies eventually realized that the geek stuff could be pretty fun, so they muscled their way in and started shitting on those nerds in their own space.
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i lost all respect for polygon when they helped create that false narrative around that guild wars 2 lady. i literally read the tweets. she lost her mind and was an asshole. but they reported it as "HELPLESS WOMAN BULLIED BY MALE ASSHOLES. GAME INDUSTRY IS A SHAM. FUCK MEN"
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"Toxicity in gaming" is a term coined by people that had weak banter, weak gaming skills, weak social ability.

If you can't handle my venomous shit talk, then you don't deserve to play the same game as me. Go back to The Sims. You're not ready to exist in my world.

And do you know why I talk so much trash? Because of studies like this. Because I know it gets into a person's head, it upsets them, it breaks them down spiritually and that makes them easier to dismantle and destroy and win. I'm not some fool, there's me vs. you and I don't like losing. Don't like it? Get better and win and then push your moral shit but until then you're going to sit there and fumble through trying to ignore me while I send you tilting so hard you will live the next twenty minutes of your life in vertigo.
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TheCurseX2 posted...

If you can't handle my venomous shit talk, then you don't deserve to play the same game as me. Go back to The Sims. You're not ready to exist in my world.

Y I K E S
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Sadly, I don't see a whole lot proving that article wrong at all. We could and should be better.
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We wouldn't be so toxic if people who only started playing games when it got popular would stop invading our space. oh and btw cultural appropriation don't real
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Nah, trash talking is an art. It's a lost art, actually. You get lowly shit these days because most kids type Twitch emoticons and repeat meme shit but rest assured when you get somebody so fucking mad that they silently rage quit out you know you just made that man get evicted from his apartment or wake up his grandma from throwing his controller at the wall IRL.

There is nothing more fun, there is nothing more fulfilling than knowing you got into someone's head so much that they bitched out.
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Darmik posted...

Esrac posted...

It really comes seems like a lot of the same (white, straight) male gamers are a problem. Let's all nod in agreement about what a problem they are

Theres a difference between white, straight, male gamers and the toxic gamers who generally are white, male gamers.

The article is about the latter. Yet people constantly like to bundle themselves into that group for some reason.

I don't think these types of critics make enough of a distinction. Especially when they so often like to make note of the white, straight, male gamers that they think are the problem. I mean, not a whole lot of talk about other demographics behaving badly. Are we to assume they're just so much more well-behaved?

Do you think they would feel the same way if, when talking about, say, crime, we deliberately added the adjectives "black" and "male" in front of the word "criminals" and had a social justice crusade about how awful black, male criminals are? (I mean we have done that kind of thing as a society and most agree that there is racism there.) After all, there is a difference between black males and criminals who are black males.

Yeah, I know, I'm being a bit hyperbolic with that comparison.
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Frolex posted...

We wouldn't be so toxic if people who only started playing games when it got popular would stop invading our space. oh and btw cultural appropriation don't real

I have heard the term "nerd face" before. To describe normies adopting a facade of geekiness for fun. I think it was directed specifically at The Big Bang Theory because it wears the garb of geekdom (and arguably autism), but only to use it as a punchline.
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Too many people take the anonymity of the internet too personally. The 12 year old screaming the N-word repeatedly over Xbox live is not actually a racist if you can believe it. He's just trying to get a rise out of people because he thinks it's funny. Do you really think he'll be the same person when he's 24?

I will admit that I silently ree at mainstream casuals sometimes, but normally it's because they are demanding that something with a devoted fandom be altered or watered down for their tastes. Eg the "Ooga booga Gronk summon Gemini Elf. Gronk no like the black and white cards" crowd
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Doe posted...

I will admit that I silently ree at mainstream casuals sometimes, but normally it's because they are demanding that something with a devoted fandom be altered or watered down for their tastes. Eg the "Ooga booga Gronk summon Gemini Elf. Gronk no like the black and white cards" crowd

I think that is largely why Sarkeesian got such a negative reaction from gaming nerds. Someone with no connection to the community or subculture shows up and starts shitting on the games they love. Its harmful, its problematic, it needs to grow up, this violence is disturbing, etc. And why so many feel her criticisms are invalidated when it was revealed she wasn't actually a gamer.

No one likes it when someone kicks in your door, takes a dumb on your carpet, and blames you when you get pissed about it.
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TheCurseX2 posted...

Darmik posted...

Im a feminist media scholar

topic list

Stopped reading there as well
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Dominance and supremacy is still whats happening in these spaces. I could go online right now and immediately Ill be profiled by how I sound. Im going to be interacting with mostly males who see me as an intruder into their digital locker room.

They feel that this is a place where no girls are allowed, no people of color are allowed. What are you doing in here? I hear this absolutely every time.

I played Friday the 13th and saw how African-American characters were targeted to be killed, while white characters were left alone. I challenged someone for calling me the N-word, and I got banned.

The game companies focus is really on white males first. So whenever I reach out and say, Hey, what are you doing about the toxicity in the space? theyre like, Oh, well, you can just isolate and segregate yourselves in places like Xbox Live. Theyre not really doing anything about it; theyre just keeping people separate and segregated.

For the most part, those pockets are free of the toxicity on Xbox Live, because a lot of them are invite-only. However, it creates this insulated and separate culture.

Marginality comes in many forms, and economic marginality is one of them. This is something that we saw a lot with the U.S. election [in 2016].

Its really hard to get people who are making minimum wage and struggling financially to understand that they have structural privilege compared to other groups. Some people see programs like affirmative action and attempts to create gender parity, and they think that they are being unfairly excluded.

Theres an adage that says, when youre used to privilege, equality feels like oppression. When youre used to being able to do and say whatever you want, being criticized for saying racist or misogynist things comes as a shock. This is why you see all of this anger over so-called political correctness.

Theres a lot of anger amongst certain groups that people who they perceive to be inferior to them are telling them what to do and say. Because gaming and other spaces have been traditionally dominated by white men, the idea that they couldnt behave as they normally did because outsiders were coming in caused a lot of anger.

Seems relevant to how the topic is going
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A lot of toxic people just want to be free to be toxic. I remember one time I asked a gamer he sounded like a white dude and he was using the N-word towards another player who sounded black so I asked him in a private chat, Are you a racist?

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People are terrible to each other online and in online games because they can be and they don't have to witness firsthand the actual effects their words and actions have on the people their vitriol is lodged at.

It has nothing to do with it being "a bunch of white men showing their real hatred." Everyone is shitty to each other online, men women, poc and just about any other demographic you can name.
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TheCurseX2 posted...

Darmik posted...

Im a feminist media scholar

topic list

The bar for being considered as a "feminist media scholar" means she listened to a lecture from a gender studies course once and then she watched a movie one time. Those are the only requirements to be considered as an expert in that field of "study."
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Darmik posted...

I played Friday the 13th and saw how African-American characters were targeted to be killed, while white characters were left alone.

That's a little funny

Darmik posted...

This is something that we saw a lot with the U.S. election [in 2016].

Thought this was going to be about rural and dirty job voters getting ignored and marginalized by the left
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