Board 8 > Blade Mafia 12- I MOOstache you a question

(+) Yeah! (+)

Panthera posted...

You questioned it but ended up accepting it. Chris laughed at first then kind of accepted it. It's just weird to me because I'm not all that convinced myself despite suggesting it to begin with.

i mean i get that but what's the alternative?

leo was ALWAYS going to flip "paranoid roleblocker", which means that for mzero to have done this, mzero CANNOT have wanted leo lynched first, or else mzero would always be caught out next, right?

unless mzero thought that he could get away with "i lied, i actually have watches and tracks"

which he very well may have thought he could? if he thought we'd say "well mzero doing that as scum knowing leo would flip paranoid roleblocker makes no sense"

the thing is, we don't have to question the motive TOO much, since corrik's claim proves mzero is scum.

questioning the motive only helps find the others, right? and yes, i'm aware that me being scum being "saved" by it is a thing. but also, i realized this earlier, they probably had this planned from the night before (because of leo's timestamps and mzero's general lack of being around), so it wouldn't really be to save me if I was scum, unless they only started planning it after I became chris's demon-tunnel? i guess they could've. eh. consider this or throw it out. just thinking out loud.

but like i just said, the motive makes a bit more sense if shad is scum since their team was in a bad spot. if death is the final member... well, I admit I look more like the final member because dels/shad are in a bad spot either way and might wanna go for a gambit, whereas death doesn't need to. but it's entirely plausible that he eventually agreed to it on the scumboard. if chris is the final scum then he's in... well he's in a good position and doesn't need a dumb gambit from his team, except for the rule 1 thing.

And it's weird to me that you accept it since it makes like, negative sense unless you're scum.

yes, but i specifically mentioned this. I know you are looking for gaps in my perspective, but if you look back, you will see I specifically asked chris why mzero would do it if i was town. I know I ultimately accepted it, but I hope you can see that I DID follow the thought process you would expect me to, and I hope that shows I am town.

It feels like as town you may not know why scum did it, but you would be pretty sure it wasn't to sacrifice MZero to derail your lynch only to not even try to sacrifice MZero.

I said all these things. If part of your case against me is that you feel I didn't consider these things, then please remember that I did.

i guess it's just like, what else do you want me to do?

i've accepted that mzero did it. probably for the reason you theorized. but if not, for some other reason. there's a limit to how much I can wonder "if it wasn't to save me, then what was it?" when we're clearly not gonna get an answer

also

@MZero11

DON'T YOU DARE DO ANYTHING TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE WE ARE PARTNERS

I PUT UP A SHIELD THAT PREVENTS IT

LEAVE ME ALONE

(i'm honestly surprised he never said a word about me all day. you'd think he'd have at least wanted to say SOMETHING about the fact that i ended the day voting for him)

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I accept it because scum's logic for what they do does not concern my PoE process, by the way. If you want to question that line of thought that's fair. But the flaw in your method is Joker-like scum teams ("some people just want to watch the world burn" will always trip you up. If you can find the genuine town signs from all town, scum's twisted logic becomes a non factor. This may trouble you though. What are your thoughts on this?

My biggest concern is basically that their gambit had huge potential to backfire, but their position looked solid enough (especially if Dels is town, we'd most likely have lynched him and be at MyLo right now). I know scum can do some wacky things (hell, town can do some wacky things) but I like to try to figure out what their motivation is because it might indicate whether my own understanding is on track or not. Scum probably felt their situation was more desperate than it looked to me...which does kind of give credence to Dels suggesting maybe Shad is scum and his team was trying to "clear" at least someone else rather than rely on Shadad to return from dad duty
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Dels posted...

i guess it's just like, what else do you want me to do?

i've accepted that mzero did it. probably for the reason you theorized. but if not, for some other reason. there's a limit to how much I can wonder "if it wasn't to save me, then what was it?" when we're clearly not gonna get an answer

To be clear, it's not that I think it's a damning perspective slip or whatever, you'd know if I had concluded you were sure scum. I know you questioned it a fair bit before settling on "well, sure, maybe they're just crazy", it just kind of strikes me as odd since it seems so much less likely from your perspective (genuine or feigned) than it does from mine, but you seem more willing to roll with it than I am. I am aware I get unusually paranoid about trying to figure out why scum does some of the shit they do though
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i mean it looks like the team is shad/dels because that's what'd make them the most desperate

but i know that's not true

but i'd be a damn hypocrite if i said that shad is scum for this without acknowledging that i seem just as likely

that said, it's possible they weren't desperate. like chris said, joker scum or whatever. leo loooooves gambits. i don't know mzero.

have a really hard time believing death signs off on this, but then you go look postgame and find death on the scumboard being like "look, this is really stupid, but uh, whatever, if you guys want to, fine" and you're like "ok i guess he signed off"

i just really don't believe we can ever figure out the motivations, though in retrospect they'll probably be obvious

i have a lot to do tomorrow as well so still don't expect anything from me but reactions

So uh

Pxl tried to summon Blade at some point because he didn't give an actual deadline when he started the day and as far as I saw he never actually replied. Given we've had 24 hour days and days that end 2 minutes before or 12 minutes after the hour...

##Vote: MZero

Just in case

(seriously the lack of coherent starts/ends and also votals in this game is frustrating)
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It may make my mindset make more sense that past Mzero Dels is by far my strongest scum read due to the complete lack of town clearing posts for him. I have treated him with civility and courtesy because he deserves that regardless of alignment, not because I have seen anything to think he is town in a PoE environment.
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(To answer, yes, Mzero being scum means Dels almost has to be given the landscape of yesterday, even beyond any other context)
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Basically what I think happened...

Just a guess, but...

Dels/Mzero/Leo are 3/4 of the scum remaining, and they are all caught in my sights.

Mzero claims a role that doesn't make a lot of sense in the context of the game, and is very low effort.

Leo puts the blasters on full charisma and rattles his cage as much as possible.

By doing this the surviving one gains something and Dels is kept alive. If scum was going to die it may as well have been on their terms. Perhaps Dels is their roleblocker or is otherwise still of use to them in some power capacity. Perhaps they think he can worm his way into something. Who knows.

But then Corrik forces Mzero's hand and Mzero panicks and starts waving things about, without the aid of his more cunning scum mates.

It's basically a forced error due to Corrik's having pulled the wool over the scum team's eyes.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

It may make my mindset make more sense that past Mzero Dels is by far my strongest scum read due to the complete lack of town clearing posts for him. I have treated him with civility and courtesy because he deserves that regardless of alignment, not because I have seen anything to think he is town in a PoE environment.

sad

i guess i just find that a little bit odd

because when i'm town, i'm usually a pretty towny guy

like people don't scumread me when i'm town

these goobers might because i made an alliance and shit but eh

i've made a LOT of posts now and man, maybe you think my wolf game is good, i don't, but i could never believe i'd be able to do half of this as a wolf

i mean look, i'll go down without a fight, i don't REALLY mind too much, but egh

like i dunno, i personally feel my posts should, somewhere, have gotten at least ONE entry onto that "post so weird that he'd never think to make it as scum"

like... even just once...?

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Basically what I think happened...

Just a guess, but...

Dels/Mzero/Leo are 3/4 of the scum remaining, and they are all caught in my sights.

why the hell do i make it more than shad

shad's an inactive slot, surely that puts scum in a worse position than if I'm the third member?

Mzero claims a role that doesn't make a lot of sense in the context of the game, and is very low effort.

Leo puts the blasters on full charisma and rattles his cage as much as possible.

By doing this the surviving one gains something and Dels is kept alive.

i'm nitpicking, but no, the surviving one doesn't gain anything if its mzero, since "paranoid roleblocker" proves it all a lie. unless he plans to get away with "lol i gambitted! but i'm still town!" which I guess he could since you guys love your gambits. but eh. i subscribe more to mzero being meant to die.

Quote your 5 weirdest posts.
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Dels you were the lynch yesterday before scum intervened.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Dels you were the lynch yesterday before scum intervened.

yeah that's true

i've said that before

but also like i said its probable they came up with this plan over the night because they had it ready, i don't think they came up with it only after you voted me

(if i'm scum, which i'm not)

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Quote your 5 weirdest posts.

yeah no

do you want more wifom because i can give you some wifom and tell you what i think the strongest reasons for me being town are

actually i don't want to nvm

I mean I wanted to see if I missed something. You simply quoting your posts for ME to make s judgment on isn't wifom. But ok.
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no

it was two seperate thoughts

first "yeah no" i am not quoting 5 weirdest posts

then NEW THOUGHT, i could try another thing, giving you OTHER reasons, but they'd be more wifom-y

but honestly they wouldn't be and personally i don't really believe in wifom in that way, so actually i shouldn't have used that word, and you are right, it's not wifom, OTHER people call it wifom when it isn't sometimes

(like when i explain reasons why I am town and want people to see if they agree, they always say its wifom. but that's not what wifom is, because you just said why)

so i got all of that wrong, ignore me, i'm tired

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Quote your 5 weirdest posts.

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Basically I am not corrik. My reads are changeable. They change when I get new information. So if you dont wsnt me to examine posts more closely that's on you my friend.
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look chris, the biggest reason for you that i am town

is because we've played together a lot

and I know that when I'm in the game, you always test me

throw pressure my way

randomly call me scummy

etc

you do all this shit to see how I'll react to it

and when i'm scum i get defensive and scared and you notice it and catch me

and when i'm town i get all confused and you're like "ok, yup, that's town dels"

and you KEPT doing stuff to me this game, kept throwing things my way, and every single time, I always THOUGHT

"okay yeah, now is the time he's gonna say "i was just testing you, you're town""

I ALWAYS thought it, and SAID so

and you just NEVER did

but I kept expecting it, so much so that, TWICE, I thought you had finally said it, and I was like "ok cool, i thought so"

after the whole claim thing, when i didn't claim for you

you kept calling me scum

and I STILL just kept assuming it was a test

until finally, you said

"ok, that's all i needed dels, you're good, you can go do something else"

which I interpreted as you dropping the pressure and saying "ok yeah, i was pushing you, you passed, go about your day"

which is why i said something like "you bastard" because I was like "fucking hell, he really was doing all of that as a test, and of course i fucking passed it and he just dismisses me >_>"

you can SEE from my reaction there that i truly believed you were giving me the townclear, and that's something I'd only think if I AM town

and then I think it happened AGAIN

when the leo scan happened

you started being like "okay dels, drop the alliance now, please?"

and I was like "oh thank fucking god, he's finally dropping it all and admitting he figures I am town"

and you were finally talking to me again, and you can see in my attitude that I am like "okay great, finally" and relieved

and then after a few pages, (after I didn't vote leo)

you went RIGHT BACK TO CALLING ME SCUM

and I was like "ARE YOU SERIOUS. I THOUGHT YOU FINALLY KNEW I AM TOWN"

as scum I get SO defensive and worried about you that I would NEVER, EVER, EVER, have ANY moments of relief. I ALWAYS WORRY that you know the truth, even when you leave it alone for a bit, I'd never show any relief, and I'd NEVER show any surprise when you go back to suspecting me, the way you did here, twice.

that's the difference

as town, even when you are focusing on me, i assume you'll trust me eventually, and i act relieved and carefree

and as scum, even when you're NOT focusing on me, i assume you'll catch me eventually and i stay tense and worried

AND YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT BECAUSE YOU'VE DONE IT SO MANY TIMES

so that's that.

like i get that "you should townread me and if you don't you're scum" is a silly thing but i really don't get it, you're not usually wrong about me, so how can you be here?

I mean in fairness Dels isn't it a bit unreasonable that from your perspective of the 8 players left I am 7/8 in sorting them out and because I am only 7/8 it is weird I am wrong about one? That's a bit harsh, don't you think?

Also it has been years since we last played.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Basically I am not corrik. My reads are changeable. They change when I get new information. So if you dont wsnt me to examine posts more closely that's on you my friend.

i honestly wouldn't know my 5 weirdest posts which is why i said no

i'm sure there's some

i'm not gonna go look for them because that's just silly

instead i give you this other thing, take it or leave it

but i am giving you the key to psychoanalyzing me and showing you why my behaviour all game fits the town psychology. and at the very least, you surely won't find any holes in it, because i'm town so it's all true.

ALSO WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF SCUM STRATEGY IS IT FOR ME TO MAKE AN ALLIANCE WITH AN OUTTED SCUM WHO GOT FOLLOWED BY THE TRACKER

(yes I made it BEFORE that but still)

like

for you (and anyone else) to believe I am scum

that means you are saying that right now, me, my play, right in front of you, you are witnessing THE CRAZIEST, STUPIDEST, MOST OUTLANDISH scum strategy you have ever seen in YOUR LIFE.

that's what you are saying.

because you've NEVER seen a scum do anything as crazy as the shit that i've done this game. NEVER. can you deny this?

do you think THIS is it? this is the game where you get to say "yeah, i saw a scum do the most batshit insane thing ever, allying with a partner who got scanned, refusing to claim under any pretense then claiming vanilla, staking his entire game on honor and integrity which caused him to vote a claimed tracker"?

you really think what you're seeing right now is gonna go down in your diary as the worst scumgame you've ever seen in your life?

BTW.

THAT post had some wifom in it :P
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For me to believe you are scum I need only think the other people are town. Process of Elimination is a cruel mistress.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I mean in fairness Dels isn't it a bit unreasonable that from your perspective of the 8 players left I am 7/8 in sorting them out and because I am only 7/8 it is weird I am wrong about one? That's a bit harsh, don't you think?

Also it has been years since we last played.

eh

maybe?

i'm a sensitive and emotional and melodramatic person

and i don't like being scumread

sooooooo

i've already said i agree with your poe and you can probably win the game with lynches of me death and shad

but like

eh.

i am annoyed you scumread me.

and continually tinfoiling that maybe you're somehow scum for it.

It's less a pure scum read and more 'well someone's got to be scum" and of the 3 poe'd death has pinged me positively and it's awkward as fuck making the idle guy your strongest scum read.
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(As in, Shad has done very little)
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

BTW.

THAT post had some wifom in it :P

true. that one is the wifom.

but wifom doesn't mean "unsolveable thing where you cna't tell which side is real"

sometimes you can just take the straightforward option.

that's how you beat wifom.

like there's a difference between "wifom" and "a person using a strategy that relies on wifom"

if I'm scum then that means I CHOSE to go for the risky insane strategy that'd ask you to wifom.

and you should generally just assume the scum don't go for the risky insane strategy.

Like I am fully admitting when I talk about SCUM MOTIVES it is mostly an exercise of fun. "Oh fine let's spin a yarn about what scum was doing." I don't factor that into my PoE. It's just a fun what if to engage Panthera as I know not everyone PoEs like me near the end of the game.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

For me to believe you are scum I need only think the other people are town. Process of Elimination is a cruel mistress.

yeah so just narrow it down to death and shad because clearly whatever weak town points you gave his can't compare to the shit I'm doing

is basically what I'm saying

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Like I am fully admitting when I talk about SCUM MOTIVES it is mostly an exercise of fun. "Oh fine let's spin a yarn about what scum was doing." I don't factor that into my PoE. It's just a fun what if to engage Panthera as I know not everyone PoEs like me near the end of the game.

yeah that's fine and i admit that dels/shad is the team with the most incentine to do the weird mzero/leo thing

but surely just one is enough?

i mean i know just one is enough. so.

Let's play a thought exercise.

There was one thing you did yesterday that pinged me as very town and I haven't mentioned it. It was useless to do so yesterday and I thought I'd keep it up my sleeve.

If you can guess it on your first try, I will in fact feel better about you.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

It's less a pure scum read and more 'well someone's got to be scum" and of the 3 poe'd death has pinged me positively and it's awkward as fuck making the idle guy your strongest scum read.

well, i'm doing it. so.

anyway i'm fine with the PoE but meh, death doesn't deserve a townread as much as i do.

and hell, at least lynch shad first, come on.

you'd really lynch me before SHAD?

(yes I know this looks like scum self-preservation, asking to be put later in the order)

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Let's play a thought exercise.

There was one thing you did yesterday that pinged me as very town and I haven't mentioned it. It was useless to do so yesterday and I thought I'd keep it up my sleeve.

If you can guess it on your first try, I will in fact feel better about you.

=( i can't.

or at least, i don't think i can.

but let me give it a think

yesterday was split into... three sections...?

wow yesterday was a big day wasn't it.

section 1: you and i go after corrik together. this section ends when you eventually unvote corrik without explaining why and i'm left mystified and confusing but whatever.

section 2: ...honestly i don't remember what comes between that and...

section 3: you ask me to claim. etc etc. this last until... god i don't even remember, what ended it...? maybe we just went to sleep. and then in the morning...

oh, section 2, you kind of just PoE and I follow you, and leo comes in and I make "the alliance"

section 4: the mzero scan comes in. i hold to the alliance. entire rest of day is about that stuff

so the question is

did i do the towny thing in section 1, 2, 3, or 4

(note that this post COULD look like, i am scum, and i know i can't figure out the towny thing, but I wanna get town points anyway so I put in all this effort in case maybe you townread me for the effort. hell maybe there IS no towny thing and you just wanted to see if I'd do this)

i'm gonna press post message now but I'M NOT DONE. I'M GONNA NARROW IT DOWN

chris i will be honest with you this is really fun and i want to keep doing it but i just need to sleep >_>

i forego the town points.

have a good night.

but i'll think about it and see if i can come up with it in the morning.

(MAYBE THE ACT OF FOREGOING THE TOWN POlNTS MEANS I AM TOWN)

Aww man, I was about to reveal the twist.
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i'm seriously loopy, sorry.

>________>

.............

well did I GUESS the twist?

there WAS no towny thing and its all to make me dance?

i seriously do want to go to sleep.

if there really is a thing then i'll think about it in the morning

The twist is you are town.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

The twist is you are town.

:D

:D

:D

:D

:D

:D

I WAS ABOUT TO ASK IF THAT WAS IT

AND I STARTED WRITING THAT MESSAGE

AND THEN I BACKSPACED IT

I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY AND IT WAS 60 SECONDS AGO, but ok

tell me why!

well other than the fucking obvious aka everything i've said

look its all too meta at this point

i brought it up that when you scumread me i think you're not and when you townread me i think you're not and etc and etc

like

and you just gave me one "test"

or one trick

this could be a trick too

like, I'll choose to believe it, because I'm simpleminded or whatever

but this could be a trick. so. eh.