Board 8 > Blade Mafia 12- I MOOstache you a question

(+) Yeah! (+)

I would think, with empathy, you'd go "Oh yeah I can see why Dels might do this as town, because I totally did it."
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Chris being alive is another reason I dont think Corrik is scum.
I cant see scumcorrik resisting the desire to kill townchris dead.
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Also Death I worry for you my friend because the way Dels talks about Ashe vs Panthera is very different.

Ashe he reads as if I convinced him with my points

Panthera he reads as if he is trusting me.

But you lump them together. What about Ashe makes you think Dels would walk it back if I were dead?
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htaeD posted...

Chris being alive is another reason I dont think Corrik is scum.
I cant see scumcorrik resisting the desire to kill townchris dead.

That and he just hellmurdered the fuck out of Mzero.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I would think, with empathy, you'd go "Oh yeah I can see why Dels might do this as town, because I totally did it."

I didnt want to imply that Dels was scum for sheeping you.
Just that I would have liked it more had he based his opinions of Panth and Ashethan on his own reads.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Also Death I worry for you my friend because the way Dels talks about Ashe vs Panthera is very different.

Ashe he reads as if I convinced him with my points

Panthera he reads as if he is trusting me.

But you lump them together. What about Ashe makes you think Dels would walk it back if I were dead?

I am only lumping them together because I havent payed them much attention lately. I intend to remedy that.
But I need to lunch now, so brb.
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Very well, please do remedy that.
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Also the benefits of a scum team that doesn't include Panthera is I feel like Panthera, as scum, probably wouldn't buy Corrik's walk back just like I didn't.

But maybe I overestimate Panthera.
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Also Mzero said he'd be back in a few hours but it has been 8.

Oh no he must have gotten lost :(

Leo was right this sarcasm thing is fun.
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Panthera-Dels aren't W-W

Just keeping track of unaligned pairs, don't mind me.
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Oh wait I already had that pair from when Panthera went hard on Alakazam, neat.
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Mzero is posting elsewhere but not here.

Guys I think he may not like us anymore.
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He did it to himself, as far as I can see.
Okay maybe he is allowed to not like Corrik.
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Tag
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Okay.

#1. Am I the only one NOT totally buying Corrik here? I mean I get Chris's arguments. They're good ones. Why would Scum track Mzero? Simpliest answer to that is... maybe they didn't. They just connected Mzero to the dead guy. They didn't kill him in order to get us to lynch him. I mean why would scum mzero say that he DID target Dowolf in order to make Corrik look bad? Why not just say "Nope, I didn't have an action last night. I'm an Odd Night tracker, and last night was night 4. ". That alone makes Corrik look bad (if Corrik is town). No need to say "CORRIK VISITED DOWOLF". No need to even claim any action at all. Instead, MZero comes in and pretty much ensures that at LEAST one of Corrik and Mzero are scum. He could've even said "I tracked Dowolf". (Which puts us at null between the two of them)

Also, if the scum team were trying to make Leo look good, why not claim info on Mzero instead of the other way around?

I should also note that I got a feeling that Mzero was holding back yesterday. I don't think I mentioned it, but I got the feeling he was pulling some kind of gambit. Though I thought it was more along the lines of him being able to track every night.

It is suspect they didn't block him instead of pxl (who's ability doesn't seem that useful). Of course, that's assuming Pxl IS Town. (if she is, then obviously they have a roleblocker. But if she isn't, they might not). I'm not sure why they don't roleblock him just to be safe if they do have a roleblocker. So that's probably the best argument in Corrik's favor at the moment.

#2. Dels alliance yesterday was bad. I don't think it necessarily speaks to his alignment one way or another, but it's really annoying that he apparently thought Leo was scum and would neither say so and voted for Mzero. I asked him what he'd do if it came down to a tie, and he gave an "ugggh" type response, indicating he wasn't sure. But then he came in and actually voted for Mzero. (If this Mzero is scum theory everyone else has is correct, then Dels is probably scum too). Like... if your allegiance is to town, that's where your primary allegiance should be. Not to some player who you think is scum.
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I feel like the best argument in corrik's favor is we are running out of zcum team, ashe.

After mzero dies we have two left. Kind of hard for it to be corrik when the balance of the game suggests another power role makes sense.

Also the way he acted when he took back his role is... I will be honest, too high level for his svum game. Only I picked up on the lie and that is because I am me. His tunneling of mzero mskes sense when we consider he had power.

Not buying corrik is almost as bad as not buying you.
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Why in the world would I fake claim a track on Leo if I knew his role >_>

Come on guys. What?

I claimed odd night tracker to try and trick the scum into leaving me alone last night (and it worked!). The reason I claimed that instead of watcher is because I actually tracked dowolf N1 so I wanted to use that result to help my case. In hindsight, scum knew i was full of it because Leo was paranoid roleblocker so obviously I was lying, but that was my intention. You can call me bad and stuff all you want but in what way does scum me benefit from claiming a track on a guy I know will flip paranoid blocker? And why wouldn't I just call Corrik, the most notorious fake scanner around, a liar and be on with it? There is literally no benefit here.

btw I watched Chris Night 2. Corrik targetted him. Corrik actually claimed this and I was town reading him at the time so I thought he was genuine. No idea what he actually did but yeah

Anyway, Corrik has been wrong all game. I delivered scum yesterday. If Corrik flips town I die and I literally went 2 for 1 FOR NO REASON. Don't overthink this
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htaeD posted...

Chris being alive is another reason I dont think Corrik is scum.
I cant see scumcorrik resisting the desire to kill townchris dead.

I would definitely leave Chris alive but I woulda left red alive also. Dude never gets to play and has some hard rep. Btw thanks for saying there was a new topic
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I don't have e time to read right now I will later
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Panth and death o asked u last topic who the last 3 scum are
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Okay, let's see. I'll work under your assumptions...

You've got, by your process of elimination:

3 scum in:
Dels
Mzero
Death
Shad

Obviously, under this scenario Mzero is scum. Leaving Death, Shad, and Dels as 2/3 for scum.

Who in this scum team is pushing for Mzero to be lynched over Leo? I mean that would have been the plan for Mzero to make Leo look better, right? That's what we're assuming here.

Shad -- Wasn't around because he was busy having a kid. Does the scum team really rely on him to push a lynch, knowing he's probably going to be out?

Death -- Wasn't going to be around, and left his vote on Leo. Death certainly left enough wiggle room for him to reasonably think Mzero was scum, and leave his vote there instead.

Dels -- Had the terrible alliance with Leo. He's the only one of the three who actually voted for Mzero, and he waited until the last minute to do it. Instead, he left his vote on you for much of the day. He too left a lot of room to actually vote Mzero through his alliance, and through his theory of Scum suiciding against Leo. (Which he ultimately did)

So let's look at the scenarios:

Scenario A: Mzero/Leo/Dels/Death:
Under this scenario, Mzero obviously can't vote for himself. He just has to hope he's scummy enough to get lynched. (Which means he has no reason to show up at end of day at all, when he did for a brief bit). This leaves Leo/Dels/Death. Leo and Dels obviously voted for Mzero. But Death voted for Leo. Maybe to look better? But why? If he knows both are flipping scum, it shouldn't matter. Mzero flips scum, and Leo looks better. Death looks better too. Town becomes confused. Why would the ENTIRE SCUM TEAM vote for Mzero here? And as long as Leo didn't get lynched, they'd be looking pretty good. So why not actually push the Mzero lynch harder? Death said he didn't buy Mzero's claim.

Scenario B: Mzero/Leo/Dels/Shad
Under this scenario, you again have Dels and Leo voting for Mzero, and Mzero obviously can't vote for himself. And shad's not around to vote, meaning the scum team has to rely on town for enough votes to put down Mzero. They get Corrik, and for a while Pxl and even you for a brief moment. I guess this team could make some sense, having nobody around to push the MZero lynch.

Scenario C: Mzero/Leo/Shad/Death
Again Mzero can't push his own lynch. Leo's the ONLY ONE pushing for a lynch against Mzero here. Why would death vote for MZero when Shad isn't going to be around, and Leo's the only one to push the plan through by himself to get by a claimed scan. This team makes zero sense to me with this plan.

With this plan, Dels almost certainly has to be scum. No way does Scum rely on town to lynch a claimed power who says they've caught scum.

The plan, though, doesn't look like it'd ever work. Why do that instead of.. say have Mzero claim to be vanilla, and then Have Leo say "Nope. You're scum, you targeted me last night." (I guess if Mzero is Vanilla scum they couldn't do that). I mean that makes Leo look much better.

And on top of it all, Leo seemed REALLY frustrated yesterday about Mzero. I mean it's possible he's just frustrated by his teammate bussing him. (Which means it wouldn't have been part of any plan). But knowing now that he WAS psychic (paranoid roleblocker?) it seems more like he was frustrated that town lied and caught him somehow when he knows someone didn't target him.
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Ashethan posted...

It is suspect they didn't block him instead of pxl (who's ability doesn't seem that useful). Of course, that's assuming Pxl IS Town. (if she is, then obviously they have a roleblocker. But if she isn't, they might not). I'm not sure why they don't roleblock him just to be safe if they do have a roleblocker. So that's probably the best argument in Corrik's favor at the moment.

They didn't block me because I "revealed" I was Vanilla yesterday.
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I cannot see a scenario where Dels is not scum.

I still think you are scum, Ashe. But, if Mzero or Dels flips jinjo, that changes everything.

I am at least for Chris' pleading sake considering you may be town and Shad is scum, but I doubt it still.
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Corrik posted...

They didn't block me because I "revealed" I was Vanilla yesterday.

I was asking why scum didn't block Mzero if he's town.

MZero11 posted...

btw I watched Chris Night 2. Corrik targetted him. Corrik actually claimed this and I was town reading him at the time so I thought he was genuine. No idea what he actually did but yeah

Wait... wait... wait... you watched Chris night 2? That's not possible, since you said that you had 2 tracks and 2 watches. You tracked Dowolf, watched Dowolf, Watched Chris... and watched Zac. That's three watches by my count.
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MZero11 posted...

Corrik isn't actually wrong. I did visit dowolf!

Ok I did a little gambit not expecting Leo to flip paranoid blocker. Figured I wouldn't give scum more info than I needed to get the lynch but now I've been exposed

full disclosure: I have 2 tracks and 2 watches, basically like a Jack. I actually watched Zach night 3 but thought I would keep scum in the dark about my true role. Obviously scum knew I was lying because they knew Leo's role and are trying to mislynch me for it

So yeah, last night I watched dowolf. Strong player with almost no mislynch potential at this point. Guess who else visited him?

Nice try scum. Back to work now see you in a few hours

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Corrik posted...

Panth and death o asked u last topic who the last 3 scum are

Missed that

Mzero is one obviously
Delse is the one I'd put second
and out of Shad, Ashe, Panth. I dont know who to pick for third.
On one hand I feel like Shad has more going for him with his claim, on the other hand it is strange to imagine Panth and Dels being on the same team
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Ashethan posted...

Corrik posted...

They didn't block me because I "revealed" I was Vanilla yesterday.

I was asking why scum didn't block Mzero if he's town.

MZero11 posted...

btw I watched Chris Night 2. Corrik targetted him. Corrik actually claimed this and I was town reading him at the time so I thought he was genuine. No idea what he actually did but yeah

Wait... wait... wait... you watched Chris night 2? That's not possible, since you said that you had 2 tracks and 2 watches. You tracked Dowolf, watched Dowolf, Watched Chris... and watched Zac. That's three watches by my count.

Lol...

but...

Did you really need that to realize he was scum? He has been caught. Good catch though.

Maybe Chris is right about you.
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Also lol, Mzero cant even keep his stories straight anymore.
I was about to question Ashe for saying stuff like

it seems more like he was frustrated that town lied and caught him somehow when he knows someone didn't target him.

When he called Mzero scum earlier (mostly because it confused me). But thats a fine catch.
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So the final scum team is probably Mzero/Dels/Shad???

Would be panthera if mzero or dels flips jinjo.
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htaeD posted...

When he called Mzero scum earlier (mostly because it confused me). But thats a fine catch.

I was working under Chris's assumptions up until the end of my post there. To me the whole "get Mzero lynched plan' sounded so dumb. But apparently it's either true, or the plan was to get Leo lynched all along and make Mzero look better.
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Ashethan posted...

htaeD posted...

When he called Mzero scum earlier (mostly because it confused me). But thats a fine catch.

I was working under Chris's assumptions up until the end of my post there. To me the whole "get Mzero lynched plan' sounded so dumb. But apparently it's either true, or the plan was to get Leo lynched all along and make Mzero look better.

Nah. Either there is two scum teams or Mzero was supposed to get lynched yesterday but Chris' play yesterday backed them into a corner where they couldn't vote Mzero without looking like total trash.
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Oh god two scumteam theories
With this flavor I cant even tell if thats possible. But I am pretty sure Leo and Han both flipped the same team at least.
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The only way there is two scum teams is if Mzero flips a different team tonight. If he flips the same team as Leo, that entire theory is put to rest.

For there to be 2 scum teams.

There has to be a 3 man team and a 2 man team.

The 3 man team can put in kills and has the scum jinjo.

The 2 man team can't put in kills but has massively strong roles.

Or..

I maybe Leo and Han were the 2 man team and they could only kill with poison.... or were 2 of the 3 with the jinjo and could only put in kills via poison.

Either way, it is super farfetched.

It is more likely Leo literally just concocted this plan to confirm as town and it was botched badly.
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Wondering..

Semi-Psychic Paranoid Roleblocker Godfather is such a mouthfull. And paranoid godfather seems contradictory.

I did wonder if he was just scums regular Roleblocker. But pxel still claimed blocked, so evidently not. (and that wouldnt explain what the Paranoid part was for)

Based on Leo's fake claim I presume he still gets told who visited him, even though their action is blocked when they visit him.
And the Semi seems to apply to his psychic role only. Though perhaps it applies to the whole role, and he couldnt be paranoid all the time? That might be why Mzero thought he could get away with it.
But thats a stretch, and Mzero is scum anyway. This is just me theorizing for bragging rights.
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I got a busy couple of days with a grad party and a pool tournament tomorrow. I'll try to post when I can.
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htaeD posted...

Semi-Psychic Paranoid Roleblocker Godfather is such a mouthfull. And paranoid godfather seems contradictory.

I guess it's possible, though I seriously doubt it, there's a role on the scum team that requires a scum team member to get the godfather killed and take his place? That's what we had in FFT Mafia several years ago.
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htaeD posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I would think, with empathy, you'd go "Oh yeah I can see why Dels might do this as town, because I totally did it."

I didnt want to imply that Dels was scum for sheeping you.
Just that I would have liked it more had he based his opinions of Panth and Ashethan on his own reads.

Maybe so but the reason you mentioned it is because you said I might walk back on the reads when Chris dies

What part of me insisting I was "convinced" reads as potential walking back regarding Ashe? I've been calling Ashe town since yesterday with conviction.

Even Panthera I have my own reasons for

So it looks more like you wanted to find something scummy in my list of reasons for townreading people, so you made it fit.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Panthera-Dels aren't W-W

Just keeping track of unaligned pairs, don't mind me.

Ya think?

. I asked him what he'd do if it came down to a tie, and he gave an "ugggh" type response, indicating he wasn't sure.

Don't read into things if you are going to make wrong assumptions

That answer doesn't mean I was unsure. It means I could not answer the question in a way that stuck to my word. I promised to never vote Leo, so you can see why of course I could not answer that question. Notice how I didn't say I'd vote Mzero.

What part of me insisting I was "convinced" reads as potential walking back regarding Ashe? I've been calling Ashe town since yesterday with conviction.

When you put it that way, yeah you would look pretty bad if you did walk it back.
So the opening is not as possible as I at first assumed. But you didnt say you were 'convinced' in the actual post that I commented on. (and Panth is still part of the equation here. You are at least upfront about that)
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Dels posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Panthera-Dels aren't W-W

Just keeping track of unaligned pairs, don't mind me.

Ya think?

forgive me for a second.

What does W-W mean?
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htaeD posted...

Also lol, Mzero cant even keep his stories straight anymore.
I was about to question Ashe for saying stuff like

it seems more like he was frustrated that town lied and caught him somehow when he knows someone didn't target him.

When he called Mzero scum earlier (mostly because it confused me). But thats a fine catch.

Didn't call you.out on the same thing? =P

Dels posted...

. I asked him what he'd do if it came down to a tie, and he gave an "ugggh" type response, indicating he wasn't sure.

Don't read into things if you are going to make wrong assumptions

That answer doesn't mean I was unsure. It means I could not answer the question in a way that stuck to my word. I promised to never vote Leo, so you can see why of course I could not answer that question. Notice how I didn't say I'd vote Mzero.

This uggh moment was from day4 wasnt it? I remember one there at least.
To me it read like you were struggling to see what you would actually do or want in that exact moment. I liked that interpretation better tbh.
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Dels posted...

htaeD posted...

Also lol, Mzero cant even keep his stories straight anymore.
I was about to question Ashe for saying stuff like

it seems more like he was frustrated that town lied and caught him somehow when he knows someone didn't target him.

When he called Mzero scum earlier (mostly because it confused me). But thats a fine catch.

Didn't call you.out on the same thing? =P

Yeah but I concluded that that was not possible at the end of my post.
Ashethan left it vaguer until it was clarified.
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htaeD posted...

Dels posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Panthera-Dels aren't W-W

Just keeping track of unaligned pairs, don't mind me.

Ya think?

forgive me for a second.

What does W-W mean?

Wolf-wolf

As in wolves together

Aka scum.together

htaeD posted...

Dels posted...

. I asked him what he'd do if it came down to a tie, and he gave an "ugggh" type response, indicating he wasn't sure.

Don't read into things if you are going to make wrong assumptions

That answer doesn't mean I was unsure. It means I could not answer the question in a way that stuck to my word. I promised to never vote Leo, so you can see why of course I could not answer that question. Notice how I didn't say I'd vote Mzero.

This uggh moment was from day4 wasnt it? I remember one there at least.
To me it read like you were struggling to see what you would actually do or want in that exact moment. I liked that interpretation better tbh.

Um

You can like whatever interpretation you want but only I can tell you the truth. It meant I didn't feel comfortable answering that question.

Ashe, the reason they couldn't have gambited Leo scanning Mzero and Mzero getting lynched is because then leo would be a claimed scanner who looked obvtown. Leo would have no reason to keep living.

Lynching Mzero means it's fine for leo to keep surviving nightkills. At least better.

If Leo claimed a scanner, I wouldn't have been so against lynching him.

There is a reason I knew Chris was lying earlier in the game and why I was all over Mzero.
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Look Panthera, if you want to talk about being open-minded and seeing things from another's point of view, then you have to look at my reactions to the Mzero scan. And see that they were basically:

YES! Mzero is town!

Hahaha! I knew he was town!

Yes guys we obviously believe Mzero here

But oh. I made a deal not to vote leo.

Mzero is town.

But I'm not voting leo.

Town has more than enough votes to vote Leo without me.

"Will you tell us that you townread Leo then?"
I made an alliance not to vote Leo.

"Do you think Mzero is town"
Yes.

^^^^^

It's very clear that I trusted Mzero and thought leo was scum but that I couldn't say so because the start of the alliance was that I would try to.wotk with him and trust him! So I couldn't say "I think Leo is scum"

So when you say I am closedmind because I don't see how you can think I ever trusted Leo or wanted mzero dead , that is why. Thinking I was pro-leo is like looking at things so so so so on the surface when the actual ideas are right there. And I believe you are smart enough to realize that

I ADMITTED why the alliance looks bad for me. I ADMITTED why the 4-3 vote was risky. I ADMITTED that my PoV is hard to understand.

I am being as open minded as possible regarding understanding why you might scumreads me.

But NOT about claiming that I actually wanted leo saved or Mzero dead. Because it is obvious that I did not.

And I resent being called closedmind when all I am trying to do is work with you and help you see the truth.

And me asking you to look at death isn't closedminded of his perspective. You are just angry so you could not take it seriously. I know death is not the type to ever blow up or rage, but I said, look at his subconscious, look at how he is treating me, do you see ANY signs of him being annoyed or worked up about this like a townie would be, do you get the feeling from his words to me that he has a clear perspective on my allignment or is he just "handling" me.

You can be like "oh well death is the kind of guy to never show any feelings and never really show a perspective" but damn that is conveniently exactly how scum play

Dels do you see it
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