Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 182: Vesuvius of Mendacities

(+) Yeah! (+)

I feel pretty justified in saying Trump is NOT My President. Lot's of people got by with it during the Obama era, but it's 100% clear that Trump isn't even pretending to be a President for all people. So fuck him.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Quote from SHS about Trumps desire to eliminate immigration judges

"Just because you don't see a judge doesn't mean you aren't receiving due process," she said.

That doesnt seem right to me, but I am willing to ask the topic if thats actually true in a legal sense.

Wow, that's a triple negative. I guess she's trying to disguise what she's saying by making it hard to work out what it means.
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Terrible day. Trumps travel ban has been upheld by the Supreme Court 5-4 despite his obvious intent to discriminate based on religion.
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Can you really call it intent when it was outright stated?
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ACLU:

In 1944, the Supreme Court allowed the US government to imprison Japanese Americans solely because of their national origin and ethnicity, based on empty claims of national security.

Its one of the most shameful chapters of US history, and todays decision now joins it.

Today's Supreme Court ruling repeats the mistakes of the Korematsu decision. It takes the government lawyers' flimsy national security excuse for the ban at face value, instead of taking seriously the president's own explanation for his actions.

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Islam has a lot of problems -- but none of them will be solved by keeping them out of the west.
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What a sickening decision. Homeland security released a statement in support that really understates what a sham this travel ban is.

It is the duty of the government to ensure that those seeking to enter our country will not harm the American people.

This part I agree with.

While we have the most generous immigration system in the world

What? No.

It has repeatedly been exploited by terrorists and other malicious actors who seek to do us harm.

Also no. Security has been more than adequate for years.

President Trump's executive actions take important steps to protect the American people by allowing for the proper review and establishment of standards to prevent terrorist or criminal infiltration by foreign nationals.

Yes, important steps to increase safety on an already safe process. Of course :/
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What a shitty day for the Supreme Court.
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Pretty expected, given that they let it be in place while they reviewed it.
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red sox 777 posted...

Pretty expected, given that they let it be in place while they reviewed it.

I don't know that it was unexpected, but my understanding is that the bar for a temporary restraining order is high enough that there's a pretty decent amount of space between ruling that it was unconstitutional and temporarily allowing it to go into place
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1011385283562967041

david, why? you wrote and directed one of my all-time favorite movies :-(

He clarified today - https://twitter.com/DAVID_LYNCH/status/1011672665902362625

Seginustemple posted...

He clarified today - https://twitter.com/DAVID_LYNCH/status/1011672665902362625

still disagree with the bullshit he said in the article but this was nice of him to do, at least. (gee i wonder if breitbart is going to dedicate an article to this.)
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I still feel like, as shitty as it is, you have to let the President have the power to temporarily ban travel to and from certain areas if he can show ANY justification for it that isnt 100% based on bigotry, which I feel he can here, even if bigotry was his original intent.

Key word being temporarily. Whats the process moving forward on the ban now?
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It was set forth as a temporary ban to review security procedures to defend against ISIS/the migrant crisis

ISIS has more or less disbanded, the migrant crisis has passed and they have had 18 months to review security procedure.

So you figure its gotta end pretty soon if it was about any of those things.
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Yes, I would love to know their current justification for it to be ongoing
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http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/394123-rep-steve-king-says-us-is-moving-toward-a-civil-war

Steve King really, really, REALLY tests my resolve to my commitment to not dehumanize anyone.

Its mostly because he has power? How in the world is Iowa a swing state Presidentially while continuing to elect an openly bigoted Congressman?

Fuck that district
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SCOTUS's ruling on the travel ban was expected but still disgusting.

Like how the dissent points out that in the Cake case they decided a few days ago the majority ruled that statements made re: religion meant the state commission had violated the first amendment and thus that's why they ruled the way they did but this time they just ignored that.
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https://medium.com/trust-media-and-democracy/fact-or-opinion-new-research-finds-who-best-tells-the-difference-a2d1cd5aa7fc

This is dismal

Americans as a whole are no better than a random guess at identifying what is a factual statement and what is an opinion statement.

Not what is true and what is false, literally the construction of the statement as either presenting an attempt at a fact or an attempt at an opinion is what is a mystery to many.

There are some sick burns on people who identify as a Republican or Democrat based on what they chose in the results.

I got a 10/10. Did you?
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10/10 as well. Given how easy it was the results are kind of alarming, though kind of expected sadly.
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10/10

I was hoping that quiz would be harder than I expected, but I kinda knew it wouldnt be
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I missed the ISIS once since I figured the word "significant" was too subjective to be factual.
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Actually yeah, the ISIS one is pretty badly worded.
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LapisLazuli posted...

I missed the ISIS once since I figured the word "significant" was too subjective to be factual.

Anybody who didn't get 10/10 for any reason other than this probably needs to go back to elementary school.

(I do agree this one was badly worded)
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I agree on the ISIS question being poorly worded. Sat on that for like 20 seconds
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I was really confused because I got 9/10 but it was because it didn't register me answering one question at all. Which I got right.
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Reg posted...

Anybody who didn't get 10/10 for any reason other than this probably needs to go back to elementary school.

Man those classes are already over full
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I also got 10 out of 10 but nobody here would get less than 9 out of 10 right, because we're actually trained in the basic fundamentals of discourse

Paratroopa1 posted...

I also got 10 out of 10 but nobody here would get less than 9 out of 10 right, because we're actually trained in the basic fundamentals of discourse

NOBODY here?

Or just nobody here that you can see?
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Jakyl25 posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

I also got 10 out of 10 but nobody here would get less than 9 out of 10 right, because we're actually trained in the basic fundamentals of discourse

NOBODY here?

Or just nobody here that you can see?

Even someone like Vlado would get at least 9 out of 10 on this

Nah, I'd take MWC, Vlado, and probably Ulti to get less.
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Paratroopa1 posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

I also got 10 out of 10 but nobody here would get less than 9 out of 10 right, because we're actually trained in the basic fundamentals of discourse

NOBODY here?

Or just nobody here that you can see?

Even someone like Vlado would get at least 9 out of 10 on this

I feel like he'd purposefully just select facts for what he agrees with, and then claim the poll is liberally biased when he's wrong, even if he's smart enough to know the difference between facts and opinions.
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Inviso posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

I also got 10 out of 10 but nobody here would get less than 9 out of 10 right, because we're actually trained in the basic fundamentals of discourse

NOBODY here?

Or just nobody here that you can see?

Even someone like Vlado would get at least 9 out of 10 on this

I feel like he'd purposefully just select facts for what he agrees with, and then claim the poll is liberally biased when he's wrong, even if he's smart enough to know the difference between facts and opinions.

Possible

Im more referring to Corrik, whose style of communication is often very twisted with a strong misunderstanding of concepts even after they are explained to him.
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This feels like Corrupt A Wish: SCOTUS Edition.

Wish: SCOTUS overturns Korematsu
Corruption: They insert an alarming caveat.

https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1011650325374210050

i am not good at twitter so i don't know if it will appear for you guys but the link in the tweet leads to an image of the relevant part of the decision

tl;dr version: In replying to the dissent's mention of Korematsu re: Travel Ban, the majority states that Korematsu was wrongly decided. However, it states that the internment of Americans based "[...], solely and explicitly, on the basis of race" is unlawful which seems like an unnecessary caveat unless they're trying to say or otherwise leave the door open to, it being lawful in other scenarios.

Although I think technically since the majority also says that the travel ban case had nothing to do with Korematsu I don't know if it actually constitutes an overturn but yeah.
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Well if you try to argue that there is no scenario where Americans can be jailed then where does that leave actual criminals?
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I feel like if that was the point they were trying to make they could have worded it much more clearly and explicitly.
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Jakyl25 posted...

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/394123-rep-steve-king-says-us-is-moving-toward-a-civil-war

Steve King really, really, REALLY tests my resolve to my commitment to not dehumanize anyone.

Its mostly because he has power? How in the world is Iowa a swing state Presidentially while continuing to elect an openly bigoted Congressman?

Fuck that district

He's not wrong.

He just doesnt realize that he is literally one of the causes of this move towards the poles and that he as a loud voice in the GOP has the power to turn back this tide
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Jakyl25 posted...

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/394123-rep-steve-king-says-us-is-moving-toward-a-civil-war

Steve King really, really, REALLY tests my resolve to my commitment to not dehumanize anyone.

Its mostly because he has power? How in the world is Iowa a swing state Presidentially while continuing to elect an openly bigoted Congressman?

Fuck that district

Northwest Iowa refers to itself as "God's Country" is like 99% rural and often very different politically than east and central iowa.where there are more cities and people.
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Concerning the Opinion vs Fact poll, this is relevant to current events:

Immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally are a very big problem for the country today.
You correctly answered Opinion statement

% in each party who classified it correctly:
Republicans: 49%
Democrats: 81%
Independents: 69%
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https://twitter.com/joshrogin/status/1011675772568965122

Russias wildest dreams
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https://twitter.com/neilukip/status/1011671738030182402?s=21

Id like to welcome @PrisonPlanet, Sargon of Akkad, @CountDankulaTV and Milo Yiannopoulos to UKIP. I look forward to them developing truly dank memes that will trigger lefty luvvies like @GaryLineker, @mrjamesob and their politically correct establishment chums. Onwards!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

This is so hilarious to me
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https://twitter.com/kt_so_it_goes/status/1011760613188620289?s=21

Tucker Carlson a hypocrite? NOOOOOO
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charmander6000 posted...

Well if you try to argue that there is no scenario where Americans can be jailed then where does that leave actual criminals?

They could have said "based in any way whatsoever on race" instead of "solely and explicitly", or even better, clearly stated the conditions that DO allow for internment, instead of listing the narrowest exception possible.

But all of those solutions deprive a racist government of power so you can see why they were avoided.
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They used rational basis review. Under rational basis review, a policy always passes if it isn't "exclusively based on X."

The stranger thing about it is why race is a class that only merits rational basis review now, when normally it invites strict scrutiny.
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Not very familiar with what's going on in New York, what's up with the Cortez upset?
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Crowley's a member of the House leadership; his being primaried is fucking bonkers.

I don't know anything about Cortez herself. Probably pretty bad news for Pelosi though (who is already facing a ton of candidates saying that they won't vote for her for speaker if they win). She's a really fucking effective speaker too, so that's probably our loss as well.
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LapisLazuli posted...

Not very familiar with what's going on in New York, what's up with the Cortez upset?

I think that generally people in this area (I live in this congressional district) are sick of the standard older/white politicians in bed with Wall Street (also applies to most people in NYC). Crowley raised more money than Cortez 10-to-1, partially because Cortez refuses money from corporations. Crowley is also pretty entitled, dude skipped out on two debates with Cortez.

Support for progressive candidates has also definitely been on the rise ever since Bernie was a serious presidential candidate. Not only that, but this area is heavy on working-class minorities, which is a base appealed to far more by Cortez.
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Disclaimer: I'm not really that interested in politics, so all of my Crowley/Cortez knowledge comes from like an hour of research right before I voted today.
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Yvette Clark is in trouble too:
https://twitter.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1011787862164099077
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1011789661277126656

Comparison to Cantor (the most obvious parallel to Crowley's loss):
https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1011787320570318848
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Yo Moderate Democrats and Never-Trumpers

Yall go ahead and start your own third party together. Pearl Clutchers Party.

Leave us progressive democratic socialists to fight the nationalists.
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