Board 8 > Chris answers mafia questions to the best of his ability while we wait for Gravy

(+) Yeah! (+)

Meow1000 posted...

During the DAY phase there is no reason whatsoever for the game to ever be autoended at 2-2-1. No one made the argument that it should be.

From where I came into the argument, that was not clear in the slightest. The argument appeared to be "during day in a 2-2-1 situation, do you just end the game automatically?"

Going into night? There is no 2-2-1 situation. It's a 2-2 after Scum shoots, so Scum win. Is the argument just "do you skip the formality of Scum firing and award the Survivor the win?" That's different.
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Ive heard the names Dream Goddess and Se7enthrust muttered in a quite negative context. What are the stories behind them?
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NewDonker posted...

Ive heard the names Dream Goddess and Se7enthrust muttered in a quite negative context. What are the stories behind them?

Suprak likes retelling the DG story. Se7en isn't really a fair story. He is just a newb who doesn't know the rules well.
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@Suprak_the_Stud
Can you please tell me the dream goddess story Corrik posted...

NewDonker posted...

Ive heard the names Dream Goddess and Se7enthrust muttered in a quite negative context. What are the stories behind them?

Suprak likes retelling the DG story. Se7en isn't really a fair story. He is just a newb who doesn't know the rules well.

Really? Then why were people saying that a bane with him couldnt ever go well?
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NewDonker posted...

@Suprak_the_Stud
Can you please tell me the dream goddess story Corrik posted...

NewDonker posted...

Ive heard the names Dream Goddess and Se7enthrust muttered in a quite negative context. What are the stories behind them?

Suprak likes retelling the DG story. Se7en isn't really a fair story. He is just a newb who doesn't know the rules well.

Really? Then why were people saying that a bane with him couldnt ever go well?

A lot of people dislike se7en for outside the game reasons.
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Oh man. Dreamgoddess. Now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time...

Initially she was just kind of bad at mafia. Which, fine, a lot of people were. She would post long paragraphs of things only tangentially related to the game, thought everyone was out to get her, and would post nonsense like "well he's 70% town and 60% scum so that means he's town". She loved that percentage thing and would do it every game, for all the players, sometimes three or four times a day.

Then she started becoming unhinged. I think she had some bad experience with men in the past and always interpreted the slightest criticism as a sexist attack and proof men were out to get her. She was survivor one game, claimed it in her first post, and then when we lyncehd her two days later for being survivor she absolutely lost her mind. It didn't help that ulti would play routinely during that time, and the two of them would take over entire topics arguing. And not like "you're dumb" "no you're dumb" kind of stuff. Like "I am going to stick a pineapple up your ass and the world would be better if you killed yourself" kind of stuff. This would go on for literally pages, and you couldn't convince either of them to shut up. They derailed entire games that way. Chris, who was her last defender, finally kicked her out of even his games when she completely ruined a fun set up he put together by doing this.

Corrik, because he was a crazy person (also him and dream were in love and don't let him tell you otherwise) invited her back on CE games when we went over there for a while. Corrik was her like second most hated person, not because he was vicious like Ulti, but because he's just very direct and DG took this as a personal attack on herself. Like he was just being Corrik, but she would lose her mind.

In one game, they were scum together. She was a scum usurper. Corrik figured it out like immediately. Like within two posts. And when he called her on it and ultimately stopped her from achieving her win condition, she threatened to murder him.

Not an exaggeration.

Corrik thought she was usurper, which she WAS, and she was so mad at this she threatened to go to his house in real life using real details which everyone knew about him, and told Corrik she was going to murder him. It wasn't joking, either. She was either serious, or wanted Corrik to be afraid like she might actually do it. Again, not because Corrik was mean to her or tormented her or anything like that. But because he thought she was usurper and she was.

Someone reported her and she got banned.

It was bonkers bananas crazy and I hope she finally got some help. Because she had serious issues that needed to be addressed.
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O_o
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Forceful_Dragon posted...

O_o

Tell the forceful goose
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Dels posted...

What is the best way to get a town to avoid lynching "low hanging fruit"? (i.e. taking easy lynches on the newer, less experienced, less active players, who make obvious mistakes and are therefore easily painted as scum)

Well my experience in successfully doing this is looking for town tells instead of scum tells and trying to pass that along. Obviously these traits make it harder to find these tells, but only looking for signs of scumminess without looking for towniness is much more likely to lead to a low hanging fruit issue simply because you are taking in half the data. It isn't fool proof obviously and mistakes will be made when people are inactive or not experienced, but I feel like if you look at both metrics easily your rate of lynching players simply for being bad instead of mafia is going to go down drastically (and my success rate of calling out these players is very high, so I speak from experience.)

Johnbobb posted...

how do I have the patience to stay informed and active when coming home to hundreds upon hundreds of posts?

I answered this already more or less by my reply to eaed.

greengravy294 posted...

how do I make Meow1000 pay attention on day 1 without accidentally editing his role to require 10 posts with more than 100 words of coherent thought as proofread as my cohost articun2001

this one is a real thinker, I know

Don't bother, he wouldn't know what to do with himself honestly. He 'tries' and then he just looks around confused and goes back to doing something else. Forcing a mind like Blade's, which lacks imagination, to be creative like this is an exercise in futility.

Corrik posted...

If you get a day shot but you must use it within the first 6 hours of the game or lose it. Do you always take the shot or not.

Yeah, without question. For one it would likely confirm me town or if I am scum then obviously I take the extra kill, but assuming I am town I can put extreme pressure on the game and exert my will for six hours and then murder someone. I also think I am 1/1 on first six hours of game day vigs in my history, although I forget who the poor soul was that I murdered. Plum, perhaps? Anyway even if you shoot town instead of scum, bound to happen, if you are at all intuitive you can change the land scape of the game and get a lot of reads that you have no right getting day one due to the absurdity of the circumstances. I take that shot every time as it provides a wealth of information by using the power proactively.
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Panthera posted...

On a more serious note, how do you learn to stop stressing out over the fact that any mistakes you make end up hurting your team as well as you? To the surprise of no one that followed the aftermath of PW mafia, one of my biggest problems with mafia is that I have a hard time not being pissed off at myself for anything I do wrong in a team game.

I think this one is an easy one to answer but very few people will understand it fully because it's not something people like to do: don't be results based. Ever. When you do something amazing, don't get too high. When you err, don't be too low. Follow a method of attack and do your best to go after it. I have had some crushing mistakes in judgment that I still remember, and some brilliant plays that others still talk about on my behalf all of these years later, but really what carries with me is that I am really fucking great at mafia. I have a good faith belief that even when I make an error I played the game the right way.

Example? PW, actually. I was hounded all of day one, lynched day three, and just had very little impact on the game as scum. I still thought I played well. I contributed to the win, and I don't think my day play was objectively poor, people just wanted to lynch me. Maybe they see ghosts, maybe there is something that I can't perceive, but I thought to myself 'I played well' despite the result being poor.

Mafia is too stressful to worry about the results, you have to worry about how you played the game. I found it shocking, I won't lie, that you were so hard on yourself following PW. I thought you played a good game after you replaced in for DYL and Donker did you no favors with his attitude and that Zach, flawed though he may have been (also as an aside, observers who waltz in and go 'ergh so obvious' do not have enough end game experience, its totally different when you have the pressure on rather than off, Zach did very well) put pressure on you by really going after it. You made the wrong decision, but you examined the evidence with care and behaved properly. You had nothing to be ashamed of at all.

Due to the amount of mafia I have played I am almost certain I have made more errors in judgment than the rest of board 8, I just don't let it bother me because those errors were done with good play behind them and I tend to learn from those mistakes. You should care a lot about the game, but realize it is too variable to ever be correct all the time.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Dels posted...

What is the best way to get a town to avoid lynching "low hanging fruit"? (i.e. taking easy lynches on the newer, less experienced, less active players, who make obvious mistakes and are therefore easily painted as scum)

Well my experience in successfully doing this is looking for town tells instead of scum tells and trying to pass that along. Obviously these traits make it harder to find these tells, but only looking for signs of scumminess without looking for towniness is much more likely to lead to a low hanging fruit issue simply because you are taking in half the data. It isn't fool proof obviously and mistakes will be made when people are inactive or not experienced, but I feel like if you look at both metrics easily your rate of lynching players simply for being bad instead of mafia is going to go down drastically (and my success rate of calling out these players is very high, so I speak from experience.)

Johnbobb posted...

how do I have the patience to stay informed and active when coming home to hundreds upon hundreds of posts?

I answered this already more or less by my reply to eaed.

greengravy294 posted...

how do I make Meow1000 pay attention on day 1 without accidentally editing his role to require 10 posts with more than 100 words of coherent thought as proofread as my cohost articun2001

this one is a real thinker, I know

Don't bother, he wouldn't know what to do with himself honestly. He 'tries' and then he just looks around confused and goes back to doing something else. Forcing a mind like Blade's, which lacks imagination, to be creative like this is an exercise in futility.

Corrik posted...

If you get a day shot but you must use it within the first 6 hours of the game or lose it. Do you always take the shot or not.

Yeah, without question. For one it would likely confirm me town or if I am scum then obviously I take the extra kill, but assuming I am town I can put extreme pressure on the game and exert my will for six hours and then murder someone. I also think I am 1/1 on first six hours of game day vigs in my history, although I forget who the poor soul was that I murdered. Plum, perhaps? Anyway even if you shoot town instead of scum, bound to happen, if you are at all intuitive you can change the land scape of the game and get a lot of reads that you have no right getting day one due to the absurdity of the circumstances. I take that shot every time as it provides a wealth of information by using the power proactively.

What if I told you I am 1/1 on dayvig shots in the first 26 minutes of the game? Lolol
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

Meow1000 posted...

During the DAY phase there is no reason whatsoever for the game to ever be autoended at 2-2-1. No one made the argument that it should be.

From where I came into the argument, that was not clear in the slightest. The argument appeared to be "during day in a 2-2-1 situation, do you just end the game automatically?"

Going into night? There is no 2-2-1 situation. It's a 2-2 after Scum shoots, so Scum win. Is the argument just "do you skip the formality of Scum firing and award the Survivor the win?" That's different.

I would still think scum needs to pick who they shoot. They dont know if someone is BP or there is a doctor etc.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Mafia is too stressful to worry about the results, you have to worry about how you played the game.

This is the truth. The town vanillas trying to sort out who amongst them is scum have the hardest job because there is almost always one townie that has roughly the same case built against them. And you've spent weeks digging and looking and researching and posting and etc. And at the end, the more you dig, the less you find. You kind of have to go with your gut and be fine with it.

We've made some strides in pushing back against the postgame I KNEW YOU WERE SCUM mentality because that used to just be an even worse toxic nightmare than what you see now. Players would spend the game talking crap and the postgame talking crap and it felt like Mafia was a topic series about a game, and not the actual game.

And town doesn't organize their efforts well at all. You shouldn't need FD to dig for days to maintain a list of claims and stuff. If town made it easier to dig up claims on a daily/topicly basis and made their gut reactions/tells known, you'd have less situations where a player is stuck making a tough decision, and more situations where that player can look quickly at the collective wisdom of confirmed (dead) town. And sure, scum could play into that.
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Meow1000 posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Suprak the Stud posted...

Meow1000 posted...

turbopuns2 posted...

Boo ya, score one for LOGIC AND REALITY

Yeah you've read absolutely nothing directed at you. No one said that during DAY is an auto scum win except for you.

Nice selective listening.

I did!

Because of the way I word my win conditions. I do it intentionally to skip the formality of what Chris says.

(Although I just wouldnt use survivor tbqh)

The formality is someone could fake being survivor as town,bait scum, and then win the game for town.

The argument is that if it's 2-2-1 heading into night the game is immediately over (barring any role that can block the kill, or kill scum) and both scum and survivor win. We have seen survivors win this way by helping scum at lylo before.

He's just been completely ignoring it.

This has literally not been the case.

We were saying survivor/scum has to out themselves in order to ensure victory. We were even talking about no lynching. I even listed the potential vote scenarios. How the fuck does that happen in the night phase?

I was the only person who said if survivor no lynches, scum should actually have to take their shot to see if it's a shared or solo victory. But I was the only person who said that. Every one else was purely talking about the day phase.

Of course game is over at 2/2/1 in the night phase if no role remains to mess with the kill. Everyone was talking about 2/2/1 entering the day phase.

I mean christ, Corrik even listed 3/2/1 as scum auto win

Most of this topic went over my head, but I'm glad I read through it for that DG story.
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neonreaper posted...

Mafia was a topic series about a game, and not the actual game

Beautiful haha

Corrik posted...

NewDonker posted...

Ive heard the names Dream Goddess and Se7enthrust muttered in a quite negative context. What are the stories behind them?

Suprak likes retelling the DG story. Se7en isn't really a fair story. He is just a newb who doesn't know the rules well.

Disagree, though we may be talking about two different stories involving se7en.
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How can we reduce toxicity in games and encourage everyone to be more happy?
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

How can we reduce toxicity in games and encourage everyone to be more happy?

Stop being so uptight and realize it is a game.
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Whats a potentially good flavor that hasnt been explored yet
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didn't you just try to modkill yourself last game
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neonreaper posted...

didn't you just try to modkill yourself last game

I was modkilled for telling a person who was going to DreamGoddess lengths of behavior "sorry" in a pm.
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So what happened with se7enthrust anyways?
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When is it correct to throw a fellow scum under the bus so you gain credibility with town? I do this in Resistance a lot, to great effect, but this game is a different animal.
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Se7en is a troll account what do you expect
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As a master of being shot N1, what can/do you do early on to help a town win after you're dead? I find most people just write off lists and arguments from such players with the logic of "dead people should be dead," but scum tends to keep around the players they think are most likely to be off base.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I think this one is an easy one to answer but very few people will understand it fully because it's not something people like to do: don't be results based.

This is what I have trouble with, I can do it fine in anything where I'm a one man team because I figured if I lose, I didn't deserve to win anyway so it's no big deal, but when I'm on a team I have a hard time not being frustrated at myself for making teammates lose.
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I either get totally wound up/stressed by the game to the point where it gradually impairs my ability to perform other functions, or I totally distance myself from it and can barely engage at all. What would be your advice for finding a middle ground?

Second question: I have little knowledge of anyone here, and most here have little knowledge of me. Do you think that helps or hurts in this case?

Crescent-Moon posted...

I either get totally wound up/stressed by the game to the point where it gradually impairs my ability to perform other functions, or I totally distance myself from it and can barely engage at all. What would be your advice for finding a middle ground?

Second question: I have little knowledge of anyone here, and most here have little knowledge of me. Do you think that helps or hurts in this case?

Hurts immensely.
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Why does it hurt "immensely"?

Crescent-Moon posted...

Why does it hurt "immensely"?

Better to know how a player plays as alignments then to not know. What is a scumtell may not be for someone else.
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I was not referring on an in-game level. I was referring on a personal level. Coming to this forum or talking to it's members is not nearly a daily occurrence for me, not even to lurk, unless I have a reason to be here or unless I notice a ping like I did earlier today. I couldn't tell you one not-mafia related fact about most of the people here and they couldn't tell you one about me. It's that level of dissociation from the community itself. I'm not sure that "dissociation" carries into the game or not in a meaningful way.

My gaps between games are large so patterns are not the easiest to remember, but I am good at remember specific acts committed by players that I can use as a basis for comparison. I need no less than a month between games. More would be preferable.

Crescent-Moon posted...

I was not referring on an in-game level. I was referring on a personal level. Coming to this forum or talking to it's members is not nearly a daily occurrence for me, not even to lurk, unless I have a reason to be here or unless I notice a ping like I did earlier today. I couldn't tell you one not-mafia related fact about most of the people here and they couldn't tell you one about me. It's that level of dissociation from the community itself. I'm not sure that "dissociation" carries into the game or not in a meaningful way.

My gaps between games are large so patterns are not the easiest to remember, but I am good at remember specific acts committed by players that I can use as a basis for comparison. I need no less than a month between games. More would be preferable.

Oh then know who the fuck cares who you are outside of the game, imo.
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That's the answer I thought I'd get for that question, though I feel personal bias does sometimes take place regardless of if someone is consciously aware of it. It probably is not a major factor in any case.

I wondered if more familiarity could make it easier to find some sort of "middle ground" for myself, though. That's where I have my struggle. I replaced out of the previous game on day 4 because of something that triggered me before the game began that I couldn't shake off without a clean disconnect from a game it had nothing to do with.

It's more trying to come up with a way to be engaged without going overboard... I had an experiment I wanted to run last game, but I couldn't due to outside events. I am not sure if it would have any real long term effect though.

Crescent-Moon posted...

That's the answer I thought I'd get for that question, though I feel personal bias does sometimes take place regardless of if someone is consciously aware of it. It probably is not a major factor in any case.

I wondered if more familiarity could make it easier to find some sort of "middle ground" for myself, though. That's where I have my struggle. I replaced out of the previous game on day 4 because of something that triggered me before the game began that I couldn't shake off without a clean disconnect from a game it had nothing to do with.

A few people last game couldn't separate their political differences with me from the game. So, it actually, can be quite a bad thing to know too much about people. As you said, biases and grudges.
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how do you get b8 to NL
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Corrik posted...

Crescent-Moon posted...

That's the answer I thought I'd get for that question, though I feel personal bias does sometimes take place regardless of if someone is consciously aware of it. It probably is not a major factor in any case.

I wondered if more familiarity could make it easier to find some sort of "middle ground" for myself, though. That's where I have my struggle. I replaced out of the previous game on day 4 because of something that triggered me before the game began that I couldn't shake off without a clean disconnect from a game it had nothing to do with.

A few people last game couldn't separate their political differences with me from the game. So, it actually, can be quite a bad thing to know too much about people. As you said, biases and grudges.

Corrik posted...

Crescent-Moon posted...

That's the answer I thought I'd get for that question, though I feel personal bias does sometimes take place regardless of if someone is consciously aware of it. It probably is not a major factor in any case.

I wondered if more familiarity could make it easier to find some sort of "middle ground" for myself, though. That's where I have my struggle. I replaced out of the previous game on day 4 because of something that triggered me before the game began that I couldn't shake off without a clean disconnect from a game it had nothing to do with.

A few people last game couldn't separate their political differences with me from the game. So, it actually, can be quite a bad thing to know too much about people. As you said, biases and grudges.

I think it's possible that with too much experience also comes being more jaded about it when it comes to the game. Grudges can especially grow over time if someone feels someone else has not gotten their "due". I've already dealt with a few situations where I desperately wanted someone to be scum but thought they were town. If someone starts giving into that "want" to fabricate reasons to themselves, they've lost their way... At least that's how it feels to me.

Not really on topic from what this was about... But it's my two cents on it.

Hey corrik what's all this then?
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Pirate_Harris posted...

Hey corrik what's all this then?

You can ask Mafia related questions here, im sure Corrik tagged you because you come across as an eager young player looking for ways to improve you play skills.
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

Pirate_Harris posted...

Hey corrik what's all this then?

You can ask Mafia related questions here, im sure Corrik tagged you because you come across as an eager young player looking for ways to improve you play skills.

That's neat. Alright thanks @Corrik
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foolm0r0n posted...

how do you get b8 to NL

3 v 1 endgame
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foolm0r0n posted...

how do you get b8 to NL

Be Town Mayor
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foolm0r0n posted...

how do you get b8 to NL

follow me on day one
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Arti posted...

foolm0r0n posted...

how do you get b8 to NL

follow me on day one

FALSE.

Remember that game when you were self-votestuffer? And you had to use it D1 because we tried to special you.

And then you didn't no lynch!!!

Disappointment of the decade.

VeryInsane posted...

Whats a potentially good flavor that hasnt been explored yet

Critical Role
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Corrik posted...

HanOfTheNekos posted...

How can we reduce toxicity in games and encourage everyone to be more happy?

Stop being so uptight and realize it is a game.

Nobody wants you to answer questions, Corrik.
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

Corrik posted...

HanOfTheNekos posted...

How can we reduce toxicity in games and encourage everyone to be more happy?

Stop being so uptight and realize it is a game.

Nobody wants you to answer questions, Corrik.

Stop being so uptight and listen to the answers.
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

Corrik posted...

HanOfTheNekos posted...

How can we reduce toxicity in games and encourage everyone to be more happy?

Stop being so uptight and realize it is a game.

Nobody wants you to answer questions, Corrik.

Wait, are Corrik and Chris the same person?
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Corrik has the fundamentals to be on Chris's level, but is lacking about a decade of experience. Plus he's limited in his skill cap by not having significant experience in more than one community. Plus he hasn't figured out the advantages of being humble.

Will be answering more, but re: Corrik.

Corrik's natural ability at the game of mafia has always supremely impressed me. Truly, 100% the man can play this game on a world class level when it comes to insight as well as his ability to dominate the day - very important aspects of the game that few grasp. Raw intelligence and mafia IQ I have tremendous respect for Corrik.

Corrik lacks some of the nuance of my game though. He may be a better pure reader of scum than I am (I am average at scum hunting but tend to be low on critical errors) but he also will need to see a flip a lot to be satisfied. One of the most dangerous things about my game is I can be wrong for 90% of the day and then go 'okay wait, I am wrong let's do THIS instead' because things click for me. My ability to analyse data is, literally, world class in the world of mafia. I have picked apart the very best in the world if left alive and given time to find the pieces.

I will 100% say I am handicapped on board 8 these days. My legend is too big to play 100% serious because he'd make me angry to do so. I die too much as town and am suspected too much as scum, to the point that my play matters less here. One of Corrik's favorite jabs at me is I benefit from this community, but in my first full year in another, slower paced community I literally won town, scum, and overall player of the year lol.
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