Poll of the Day > Why on earth do people buy remasters of games they've played (e.g. Dark Souls)?

(+) Yeah! (+)

silvermaiden posted...

EichiroNobunaga posted...

Like, I wanna support the series in hopes we get another but most of the time I can't justify getting the game again when I have a perfectly playable version and a multitude of games I need to catch up on.

This is still, and always will be the dumbest logic people have about video games. They are not going to make Okami 2 just because you bought the HD version of the first game, which came out 12 years ago by the way; that ship has sailed. If anything, why wouldn't they simply make Okamiden HD? Would you buy that, too? If they really wanted to make a sequel, they would have done it by now. One thing you do not want is for a series to be revived with the sole motivation being money instead of creating a good product.

I wouldn't buy Okamiden HD just like I'm not buying Okami HD. The thing is, if back then the game didn't sell well enough for them to justify another, the remake is a new opportunity to gauge interest.

Games can develop a cult status overtime. In addition to remakes providing the means to play an old game on newer hardware (for the multitude of reasons listed in this thread), it can also serve to revive an IP. New generations or even older ones that missed out can see what they were missing. If Capcom sees that Okami HD does well, they might be inclined to gambit on a new entry.

While I agree that I would rather have a game made to be good rather than to make money, I don't agree on the premise that they would have made it by now. There's a lot more to it than that. Money is an issue, and while whether or not you support a remake is not the be-all of the decision, to cast aside the sales numbers of ports and remakes (a relatively easy way to make money all things considered) as idiotic is in itself idiotic.

Kingdom Hearts, while I think can be used well enough as an example, does have a few differences. While I'm sure the -.5 &.8 Collections helped perhaps incentivized them to capitalize on newfound fandom / rebuilt nostalgia for 3, it was by no means a dead series beforehand.

I think Megaman is a better example. No games in ? number of years despite all the subseries and huge following the bomber has, and now we're getting Megaman 11? Preceded by all these collections no less? Now granted a lot of this has to do with fan outreach, projects like MN9, etc, but the Legacy sales prolly helped. But sales are a major part of showing developers what we want and what we would spend our money on.

For Capcom, the sales of these ports is important. If I remember right, the sales of the SFII port for Switch, a 20+ year old game with minimal changes put at an absurd $40 tag, sparked huge fears for a lack of Capcom support for an entire console due to poor sales. Perhaps a lot of that was based in rumor, but the idea stands that these can have a huge impact.

Oh, and Okami is Capcom's game. Lord knows this company loves their remasters and ports.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

JanwayDaahl posted...

No it doesn't. There's not really anything significant you unlock a second playthrough of any of the souls games. The playstyles can be slightly different (e.g. pyro instead of dex build), but ultimately they're the same crap where you study boss patterns and use slightly different methods of DPS to win the battle.

This is not different from roguelites.

Really? What score of new bosses/enemies get unlocked with NG+? What randomized elements are added to keep the game fresh? What new items/weapons get unlocked with subsequent playthroughs?
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EichiroNobunaga posted...

silvermaiden posted...

EichiroNobunaga posted...

Like, I wanna support the series in hopes we get another but most of the time I can't justify getting the game again when I have a perfectly playable version and a multitude of games I need to catch up on.

This is still, and always will be the dumbest logic people have about video games. They are not going to make Okami 2 just because you bought the HD version of the first game, which came out 12 years ago by the way; that ship has sailed. If anything, why wouldn't they simply make Okamiden HD? Would you buy that, too? If they really wanted to make a sequel, they would have done it by now. One thing you do not want is for a series to be revived with the sole motivation being money instead of creating a good product.

I wouldn't buy Okamiden HD just like I'm not buying Okami HD. The thing is, if back then the game didn't sell well enough for them to justify another, the remake is a new opportunity to gauge interest.

Games can develop a cult status overtime. In addition to remakes providing the means to play an old game on newer hardware (for the multitude of reasons listed in this thread), it can also serve to revive an IP. New generations or even older ones that missed out can see what they were missing. If Capcom sees that Okami HD does well, they might be inclined to gambit on a new entry.

While I agree that I would rather have a game made to be good rather than to make money, I don't agree on the premise that they would have made it by now. There's a lot more to it than that. Money is an issue, and while whether or not you support a remake is not the be-all of the decision, to cast aside the sales numbers of ports and remakes (a relatively easy way to make money all things considered) as idiotic is in itself idiotic.

Kingdom Hearts, while I think can be used well enough as an example, does have a few differences. While I'm sure the -.5 &.8 Collections helped perhaps incentivized them to capitalize on newfound fandom / rebuilt nostalgia for 3, it was by no means a dead series beforehand.

I think Megaman is a better example. No games in ? number of years despite all the subseries and huge following the bomber has, and now we're getting Megaman 11? Preceded by all these collections no less? Now granted a lot of this has to do with fan outreach, projects like MN9, etc, but the Legacy sales prolly helped. But sales are a major part of showing developers what we want and what we would spend our money on.

For Capcom, the sales of these ports is important. If I remember right, the sales of the SFII port for Switch, a 20+ year old game with minimal changes put at an absurd $40 tag, sparked huge fears for a lack of Capcom support for an entire console due to poor sales. Perhaps a lot of that was based in rumor, but the idea stands that these can have a huge impact.

Oh, and Okami is Capcom's game. Lord knows this company loves their remasters and ports.

The only time a remake is a gamble is if they change the gameplay completely. Like that shitty Lufia 2 remake for DS.
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JanwayDaahl posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

JanwayDaahl posted...

No it doesn't. There's not really anything significant you unlock a second playthrough of any of the souls games. The playstyles can be slightly different (e.g. pyro instead of dex build), but ultimately they're the same crap where you study boss patterns and use slightly different methods of DPS to win the battle.

This is not different from roguelites.

Really? What score of new bosses/enemies get unlocked with NG+? What randomized elements are added to keep the game fresh? What new items/weapons get unlocked with subsequent playthroughs?

Enemies-wise you get black phantoms and additional enemies, randomized elements don't inherently "keep the game fresh" (but invasions are pretty damn random) and you can only get some rings and shit in NG+.

Roguelites don't vary in any meaningful way that distinguishes it from DkS.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

JanwayDaahl posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

JanwayDaahl posted...

No it doesn't. There's not really anything significant you unlock a second playthrough of any of the souls games. The playstyles can be slightly different (e.g. pyro instead of dex build), but ultimately they're the same crap where you study boss patterns and use slightly different methods of DPS to win the battle.

This is not different from roguelites.

Really? What score of new bosses/enemies get unlocked with NG+? What randomized elements are added to keep the game fresh? What new items/weapons get unlocked with subsequent playthroughs?

Enemies-wise you get black phantoms and additional enemies, randomized elements don't inherently "keep the game fresh" (but invasions are pretty damn random) and you can only get some rings and shit in NG+.

Roguelites don't vary in any meaningful way that distinguishes it from DkS.

You're being disingenuous and you know it. You hardly get additional enemies on NG+, and yes-- randomized elements definitely do help keep the game fresh when done well. There's a reason why roguelites sell pretty well; their gameplay elements make replaying them rewarding and fun, which is why your analogy doesn't hold up.
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JanwayDaahl posted...

You're being disingenuous and you know it. You hardly get additional enemies on NG+, and yes-- randomized elements definitely do help keep the game fresh when done well. There's a reason why roguelites sell pretty well; their gameplay elements make replaying them rewarding and fun, which is why your analogy doesn't hold up.

There's a reason why Dark Souls sells better than every roguelite ever.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

JanwayDaahl posted...

You're being disingenuous and you know it. You hardly get additional enemies on NG+, and yes-- randomized elements definitely do help keep the game fresh when done well. There's a reason why roguelites sell pretty well; their gameplay elements make replaying them rewarding and fun, which is why your analogy doesn't hold up.

There's a reason why Dark Souls sells better than every roguelite ever.

I've yet to see a AAA studio produce a AAA roguelite. They've pretty much all been indie AFAIK. The comparison is a really dumb one to make.
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JanwayDaahl posted...

What new items/weapons get unlocked with subsequent playthroughs?

Depends how you choose to build yourself the second time around, as well as the question of what you end up finding (especially if you go in blind). There's no meaningful difference between unlocking a weapon and using a different build that allows you to actually use it. It also does take a minimum of 3 playthroughs on one character to unlock all of the weapons/armour in the first Dark Souls (the Soul of Sif can be used for three different items, and you only get one per playthrough). Plus everything you get from the Soul of Gwyn.

Really, there are lots of examples. You'd remember this if your tastes were good enough to enjoy replaying Dark Souls.
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JanwayDaahl posted...

I've yet to see a AAA studio produce a AAA roguelite. They've pretty much all been indie AFAIK. The comparison is a really dumb one to make.

Yeah a studio should do that and every level for a roguelike dungeon should be one DLC for $5.99.
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JanwayDaahl posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

JanwayDaahl posted...

No it doesn't. There's not really anything significant you unlock a second playthrough of any of the souls games. The playstyles can be slightly different (e.g. pyro instead of dex build), but ultimately they're the same crap where you study boss patterns and use slightly different methods of DPS to win the battle.

This is not different from roguelites.

Really? What score of new bosses/enemies get unlocked with NG+? What randomized elements are added to keep the game fresh? What new items/weapons get unlocked with subsequent playthroughs?

You know, Invisible Inc. is a roguelike game, but I don't remember it added new weapons or enemies. It just makes every level very different. And even though every level on Rogue Legacy is different, the basic layout is the same... I think games usually have roguelike elements more so than being fully roguelike. And if Dark Souls has roguelike elements in any way(which it can because you get different things based on different builds and stuff), then there's value in replay. Not to mention, playing a different build is like playing a different characters. Where you have to play different way for the whole game. It's the same basic gameplay, but it's still very different. You're blind if you can't see that...
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LinkPizza posted...

JanwayDaahl posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

JanwayDaahl posted...

No it doesn't. There's not really anything significant you unlock a second playthrough of any of the souls games. The playstyles can be slightly different (e.g. pyro instead of dex build), but ultimately they're the same crap where you study boss patterns and use slightly different methods of DPS to win the battle.

This is not different from roguelites.

Really? What score of new bosses/enemies get unlocked with NG+? What randomized elements are added to keep the game fresh? What new items/weapons get unlocked with subsequent playthroughs?

You know, Invisible Inc. is a roguelike game, but I don't remember it added new weapons or enemies. It just makes every level very different. And even though every level on Rogue Legacy is different, the basic layout is the same... I think games usually have roguelike elements more so than being fully roguelike. And if Dark Souls has roguelike elements in any way(which it can because you get different things based on different builds and stuff), then there's value in replay. Not to mention, playing a different build is like playing a different characters. Where you have to play different way for the whole game. It's the same basic gameplay, but it's still very different. You're blind if you can't see that...

First of all, I'm talking about rogueliTes, not rogueliKes. The former is pretty much its own genre by now, borrowing elements of the latter. Dark Souls absolutely does NOT have roguelike elements to it. Playing a different build is hardly like playing different characters because of how similar the game plays out for the most part (e.g. pyro/miracle builds aren't much different at the end of the day than other spellcaster builds). Not to mention there is barely any, if at all, unlocked additional content.

Like I said, gamers these days are content with the same boring content and bland replayability. Dark Souls is no such exception. It might be fun for one or two replays, if that, but it's easy to see how dull things can get even when you mix it up
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JanwayDaahl posted...

Not to mention there is barely any, if at all, unlocked additional content.

Formally unlocked? No. Stuff that is new because you just didn't find, notice, or successfully acquire it the first time? Absolutely. You shouldn't expect games to gate all of the content that makes replaying fun behind formal unlocking processes.

JanwayDaahl posted...

(e.g. pyro/miracle builds aren't much different at the end of the day than other spellcaster builds)

Uh huh. Now compare non-spellcaster builds to each other. Choosing to play with/without a shield is damn near a different game.
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adjl posted...

Uh huh. Now compare non-spellcaster builds to each other. Choosing to play with/without a shield is damn near a different game.

Same as fast weapons vs slow, heavy armour vs clothes, hp vs dps, etc., etc.
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Plus there's NPC stories you can complete or not complete. Or you can kill them.
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Because of the added modes and characters?
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