Current Events > Who created this "toxic masculinity" narrative?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I've being seeing that term tossed around a lot these days. And it's not just your usual crazy feminist whining about how much they hate men, even respected publications and some people - both male and female- I considered smart are starting to use that term. I don't even know what the hell it means
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Wimpy males
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Effeminate males who need to "win" by saying masculinity is just a toxic social construct anyway.

It's when someone (often a man) does something super assholy just because they feel they are manly and special enough to get away with it and fuck other people.

The example I always is when someone spreads their legs really far apart on a bus or something pushing against the people next to them.

Actually that's not what it is exactly, it's more about the need to show off how manly you are that occurs in most dude's minds. Things like not wanting help with things you really do need help with, and feeling like you shouldn't cry at a funeral.
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It's the idea that to be a "real man" means being a stoic, macho archetype who struggles to express emotions other than anger.
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I just heard it on the HBO show "Barry."

The show is pretty good
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It's because reality doesn't exist anymore.

It basically means that how men are supposed to be - strong, dominant, etc is now translated into - abusive, domineering, patriarchal.

They want men to be lovey dovey guys wearing boardshorts, moccassins, and reads Hemingway whilst crying quietly to themselves over Sunday brunch.

It's pretty fascinating because I think it's some sort of weird natural selection thing going on. Think about it - you rarely see that type of guy dating. Even the girls who spout that whole "Toxic masculinity is bad" dribble wind up dating guys who have more of those "toxic qualities" than those who don't...

Weird. It's the "We're nice guys and demand girlfriends!" bullshit with a new coat of paint.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_masculinity

The concept of toxic masculinity is used in psychology and gender studies to refer to certain norms of masculine behavior in North America and Europe that are associated with harm to society and to men themselves. Traditional stereotypes of men as socially dominant, along with related traits such as misogyny and homophobia, can be considered "toxic" due to their promotion of violence, including sexual assault and domestic violence. Other stereotypically masculine traits, such as self-reliance and the stifling of emotions, are correlated with increased psychological problems in men such as depression, increased stress, and substance abuse.

Toxic masculine traits are characteristic of the unspoken code of behavior among men in American prisons, where they exist in part as a response to the harsh conditions of prison life. Scholars argue that the socialization of boys often normalizes violence, such as in the saying "boys will be boys" with regard to bullying and aggression.

Other traditionally masculine traits such as devotion to work, pride in excelling at sports, and providing for one's family, are not considered to be "toxic". The concept of toxic masculinity was originally used by authors associated with the mythopoetic men's movement in contrast to a "real" or "deep" masculinity that they say men have lost touch with in modern society.

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Why does that definition restrict itself to men in NA and Europe?
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RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Effeminate males who need to "win" by saying masculinity is just a toxic social construct anyway.

People who think this don't know what "toxic masculinity" is, it is not an attack on masculinity as a whole.
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The same people who complain about the wussification of men in society are also the first ones to chime in with "Men have disadvantages too! You aren't allowed to show emotion!".
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creativerealms posted...

RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Effeminate males who need to "win" by saying masculinity is just a toxic social construct anyway.

People who think this don't know what "toxic masculinity" is, it is not an attack on masculinity as a whole.

Ehh, a lot of the time it is used that way.

RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Ehh, a lot of the time it is used that way.

Only by people like you that are purposefully misrepresenting the discussion because you can't admit there is a problem.
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BLAKUboy posted...

RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Ehh, a lot of the time it is used that way.

Only by people like you that are purposefully misrepresenting the discussion because you can't admit there is a problem.

Now we're getting into absolutes.

Bye.

Toxic masculinity doesn't mean that all masculinity is toxic. It means that a specific level or expression of it is toxic. Even good traits can be toxic if they are expressed in the wrong way. This topic is made several times a week on this board and elsewhere on the internet. If you don't get it by now, I don't know what to tell ya.

Incels are a pretty clear example of toxic masculinity. One element of a version of masculinity is to measure yourself through sexual conquests and desirability, they do that to such an extent that they take their lack of desirability as an identity and it warps them into hating women and more successful men. That's a toxic form of masculinity, hence toxic masculinity.

It's what makes guys clown each other for being emotional and makes them bottle everything inside until they explode in anger or fall into depression. That's a trait associated with masculinity and it's def toxic....hence toxic masculinity. That's not attacking all men or disparaging masculinity as a concept.
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Why is that every single person who whines about this term is too stupid to understand that it's not saying masculinity is toxic

It's insane

It was created when society decided that men shouldn't openly emote.
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women don't like to admit it but a lot of toxic masculinity is born out of them being attracted to said toxicly masculine men only.

MrPeppers posted...

Why does that definition restrict itself to men in NA and Europe?

Because social sciences have been taken over by leftist propaganda.
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It doesn't even have anything necessarily to do with feminism. Toxic masculinity is just as much a male issue as it is a feminism thing. The idea that you're a piece of shit and a failure for thinking or doing certain things, social peer pressure to present yourself in certain ways, etc
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legendary_zell posted...

Toxic masculinity doesn't mean that all masculinity is toxic. It means that a specific level or expression of it is toxic. Even good traits can be toxic if they are expressed in the wrong way. This topic is made several times a week on this board and elsewhere on the internet. If you don't get it by now, I don't know what to tell ya.

Incels are a pretty clear example of toxic masculinity. One element of a version of masculinity is to measure yourself through sexual conquests and desirability, they do that to such an extent that they take their lack of desirability as an identity and it warps them into hating women and more successful men. That's a toxic form of masculinity, hence toxic masculinity.

It's what makes guys clown each other for being emotional and makes them bottle everything inside until they explode in anger or fall into depression. That's a trait associated with masculinity and it's def toxic....hence toxic masculinity. That's not attacking all men or disparaging masculinity as a concept.

Good post
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Aki_Narukami posted...

women don't like to admit it but a lot of toxic masculinity is born out of them being attracted to said toxicly masculine men only.

Women also don't like to admit toxic feminity is just as real. A lot of what they call "toxic masculinity" stems from their hypocrisy and oppression olympics. For example, who would have thought straight men of color (or "cis men", as feminist call them) who have to deal with oppression every day would not take well to being called privileged or part of the "patricarthy"
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"Let's talk about how child custody laws favo-'

Shut your mouth you sexist MRA your toxic masculinity is disgusting. You have a penis don't you realize how much easier your life is compared to mine. ten cents on the dollar rarrrghhh glass ceiling yasss

Where did these MRAs from the PWB come from

i_eat_the_booty posted...

Where did these MRAs from the PWB come from

Who you calling an MRA?

RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Effeminate males who need to "win" by saying masculinity is just a toxic social construct anyway.

What a fucking joke. Masculinity IS toxic. The whole garbage about acting tough and not crying and all that to be a real man is so incredibly insecure and the sign of a deeply paranoid society, no surprise it's much more on the conservative side.
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i_eat_the_booty posted...

Where did these MRAs from the PWB come from

It's a video game board. We've always been here.

I'm not a MRA, btw. I just happen to disagree with mainstream feminism on toxic masculinity.
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StanZarnack posted...

RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Effeminate males who need to "win" by saying masculinity is just a toxic social construct anyway.

What a fucking joke. Masculinity IS toxic. The whole garbage about acting tough and not crying and all that to be a real man is so incredibly insecure and the sign of a deeply paranoid society, no surprise it's much more on the conservative side.

Masculinity doesn't inherently suggest that you have to refrain from crying. Only certain neanderthals act that way.

There's nothing wrong with being masculine. There is something wrong with giving someone shit because they're not masculine enough. That's the whole point of 'toxic masculinity'

CrimsonRage posted...

Aki_Narukami posted...

women don't like to admit it but a lot of toxic masculinity is born out of them being attracted to said toxicly masculine men only.

incorrect. once again, toxic masculinity doesn't mean all masculinity.

please explain what that has to do with my post because i dont see it

StanZarnack posted...

RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Effeminate males who need to "win" by saying masculinity is just a toxic social construct anyway.

What a fucking joke. Masculinity IS toxic. The whole garbage about acting tough and not crying and all that to be a real man is so incredibly insecure and the sign of a deeply paranoid society, no surprise it's much more on the conservative side.

Uh, what?
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It refers to dudes that are rapey and take advantage of every damaged girl they come across.

Aki_Narukami posted...

women don't like to admit it but a lot of toxic masculinity is born out of them being attracted to said toxicly masculine men only.

Bingo.

If a man chooses to take on an extreme caricature persona of masculine qualities or perhaps just partially, it's only harmful if their actions tangibly and directly harm others. The notion he's negatively affecting everyone by radiating "toxicity" with his words and actions is a purely bullshit assumption.

Toxic to whom? Feminists who don't like his attitude? Does not liking someone's attitude mean they're hurting you? Or hot and attractive to a large portion of women?
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It's kind of a more general term that relates to a lot of different areas, ie, things like the alpha/beta mindset, criticizing other males for traits they deem feminine, the objectification of the female body, ect.
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legendary_zell posted...

Toxic masculinity doesn't mean that all masculinity is toxic. It means that a specific level or expression of it is toxic. Even good traits can be toxic if they are expressed in the wrong way. This topic is made several times a week on this board and elsewhere on the internet. If you don't get it by now, I don't know what to tell ya.

Incels are a pretty clear example of toxic masculinity. One element of a version of masculinity is to measure yourself through sexual conquests and desirability, they do that to such an extent that they take their lack of desirability as an identity and it warps them into hating women and more successful men. That's a toxic form of masculinity, hence toxic masculinity.

It's what makes guys clown each other for being emotional and makes them bottle everything inside until they explode in anger or fall into depression. That's a trait associated with masculinity and it's def toxic....hence toxic masculinity. That's not attacking all men or disparaging masculinity as a concept.

finally someone who actually knows what is meant when "toxic masculinity" is referred to
I feel like at this point people are intentionally misunderstanding because they need to imagine a world where they're surrounded by misandrists or something.
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whining 4th wave radfems made it up
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Funbazooka posted...

Aki_Narukami posted...

women don't like to admit it but a lot of toxic masculinity is born out of them being attracted to said toxicly masculine men only.

Bingo.

If a man chooses to take on an extreme caricature persona of masculine qualities or perhaps just partially, it's only harmful if their actions tangibly and directly harm others. The notion he's negatively affecting everyone by radiating "toxicity" with his words and actions is a purely bullshit assumption.

Toxic to whom? Feminists who don't like his attitude? Does not liking someone's attitude mean they're hurting you? Or hot and attractive to a large portion of women?

You typed all of that crap up and said absolutely nothing.

StanZarnack posted...

RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Effeminate males who need to "win" by saying masculinity is just a toxic social construct anyway.

What a fucking joke. Masculinity IS toxic. The whole garbage about acting tough and not crying and all that to be a real man is so incredibly insecure and the sign of a deeply paranoid society, no surprise it's much more on the conservative side.

Do you also think femininity is inherently toxic?

Do you want everyone to be androgynous grey nothings or is it just testosterone that is an abomination?

Funbazooka posted...

Aki_Narukami posted...

women don't like to admit it but a lot of toxic masculinity is born out of them being attracted to said toxicly masculine men only.

Bingo.

If a man chooses to take on an extreme caricature persona of masculine qualities or perhaps just partially, it's only harmful if their actions tangibly and directly harm others. The notion he's negatively affecting everyone by radiating "toxicity" with his words and actions is a purely bullshit assumption.

Toxic to whom? Feminists who don't like his attitude? Does not liking someone's attitude mean they're hurting you? Or hot and attractive to a large portion of women?

you say bingo and yet go on to say something completely unrelated to my point

Funbazooka posted...

If a man chooses to take on an extreme caricature persona of masculine qualities or perhaps just partially, it's only harmful if their actions tangibly and directly harm others. The notion he's negatively affecting everyone by radiating "toxicity" with his words and actions is a purely bullshit assumption.

You're individualizing what is a societal problem. Critiques of toxic masculinity aren't focused on individuals, but on broader attitudes.
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clickbaiters not realizing that the term isn't going to help situations and instead will just aggravate already aggressive persons

Aki_Narukami posted...

Funbazooka posted...

Aki_Narukami posted...

women don't like to admit it but a lot of toxic masculinity is born out of them being attracted to said toxicly masculine men only.

Bingo.

If a man chooses to take on an extreme caricature persona of masculine qualities or perhaps just partially, it's only harmful if their actions tangibly and directly harm others. The notion he's negatively affecting everyone by radiating "toxicity" with his words and actions is a purely bullshit assumption.

Toxic to whom? Feminists who don't like his attitude? Does not liking someone's attitude mean they're hurting you? Or hot and attractive to a large portion of women?

you say bingo and yet go on to say something completely unrelated to my point

I'm exploring and expanding the topic from another angle. Sounds related to me. *shrug*
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Second_Chances posted...

clickbaiters not realizing that the term isn't going to help situations and instead will just aggravate already aggressive persons

this is also true

You get some men who seem to think a mention of toxic masculinity is an attack on men. It's not. It's largely identified as something which is detrimental to men.

Things like the idea that men shouldn't convey, or even feel, certain emotions. That they should be strong, financial providers, good at fighting, having lots of sex, etc. Very few men are actually capable in the all the areas that society tells them they need to be. It leads to poor mental health and a lack of willingness to talk about their issues. That is toxic masculinity.

It's worth noting that toxic masculinity isn't something that comes exclusively from men. It's produced by society at large and women are just as guilty of perpetuating it as men are.
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Antifar posted...

Funbazooka posted...

If a man chooses to take on an extreme caricature persona of masculine qualities or perhaps just partially, it's only harmful if their actions tangibly and directly harm others. The notion he's negatively affecting everyone by radiating "toxicity" with his words and actions is a purely bullshit assumption.

You're individualizing what is a societal problem. Critiques of toxic masculinity aren't focused on individuals, but on broader attitudes.

But you can't remove individuals from the equation. The concept of toxic masculinity means jack shit if not for individuals, right? Society is made up of individuals. I don't know what your complaint is. You've not actually addressed what I brought up. Essentially you're just saying I'm not allowed to discuss it the way I want.
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IloveJesus posted...

You get some men who seem to think a mention of toxic masculinity is an attack on men. It's not. It's largely identified as something which is detrimental to men.

Things like the idea that men shouldn't convey, or even feel, certain emotions. That they should be strong, financial providers, good at fighting, having lots of sex, etc. Very few men are actually capable in the all the areas that society tells them they need to be. It leads to poor mental health and a lack of willingness to talk about their issues. That is toxic masculinity.

It's worth noting that toxic masculinity isn't something that comes exclusively from men. It's produced by society at large and women are just as guilty of perpetuating it as men are.

This is well put
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Funbazooka posted...

But you can't remove individuals from the equation. The concept of toxic masculinity means jack shit if not for individuals, right?

But your individualization understands the critique all wrong. It's not that the caricature you've described is harming others, it's that he himself is harmed by the expectations he feels a need to meet. As are men who don't meet those expectations.
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I only hear it from the people that complain that it's a term.
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StanZarnack posted...

RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Effeminate males who need to "win" by saying masculinity is just a toxic social construct anyway.

What a fucking joke. Masculinity IS toxic. The whole garbage about acting tough and not crying and all that to be a real man is so incredibly insecure and the sign of a deeply paranoid society, no surprise it's much more on the conservative side.

Jesus christ
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IloveJesus posted...

You get some men who seem to think a mention of toxic masculinity is an attack on men. It's not. It's largely identified as something which is detrimental to men.

Things like the idea that men shouldn't convey, or even feel, certain emotions. That they should be strong, financial providers, good at fighting, having lots of sex, etc. Very few men are actually capable in the all the areas that society tells them they need to be. It leads to poor mental health and a lack of willingness to talk about their issues. That is toxic masculinity.

It's worth noting that toxic masculinity isn't something that comes exclusively from men. It's produced by society at large and women are just as guilty of perpetuating it as men are.

Yep. This is put well. All of the "I prefer men / I'm not like other girls" and internalized misogyny from women also stems from and remains in working order care of toxic masculinity
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