Board 8 > The answer to Public schooling has always been and always will be

(+) Yeah! (+)

100% online schooling (or at least for middle school on). Districts still have sports and some events / social events (Plays, Dances, etc) where they can have much more extensive security

Improvements.

+Reduction of a lot of in person bullying
+Reduction in costs
- only a few busses needed
- not needing school cafeteria, nurses, full time security
- Needing one centralized small school building, sports complex.
- less teachers/less administration
+ No snow days / ability to take part even when sick
+ Almost complete reduction of school shootings and violence / better ability to prevent them
+ Prepares students for the technological world that waits them in much of the workforce

Downsides/why it will not work

- Parents will never be okay with it. School is a babysitter for them. Who will watch their kid during school?
- Accountability - cheating made easier and how can you mandate attendance in this scenario?
- lack of social skills developed due to lack of in person interaction
- Inconsistent internet coverage or stability

Is this how we stop school shootings?
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Those are some pretty big minuses
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VintageGin posted...

Those are some pretty big minuses

Not to say that this will happen over night. But, that is the future of schooling if you could ever get the parents on board.
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I would rather have my kid shot in the head at 13
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This is a terrible idea.

You limit classroom discussion and debate, not to mention social skills, and networking. I can't imagine not being able to ask a student in class a question to see if they're getting the information before I test them (every student learns differently after all). And then you have the fact that you can't answer a student's question right away either. It'd all be done by email, which might be hours later. Not to mention out goes tests that aren't open book unless you require all tests to be proctored.

This seems like a great way to increase gang activity.
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ElizeLutus posted...

This is a terrible idea.

You limit classroom discussion and debate, not to mention social skills, and networking. I can't imagine not being able to ask a student in class a question to see if they're getting the information before I test them (every student learns differently after all). And then you have the fact that you can't answer a student's question right away either. It'd all be done by email, which might be hours later. Not to mention out goes tests that aren't open book unless you require all tests to be proctored.

Interactive software solves a lot of this. Students get immediate feedback and teachers get to know which students are having trouble as well as what they're having trouble with.
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ElizeLutus posted...

This is a terrible idea.

You limit classroom discussion and debate, not to mention social skills, and networking. I can't imagine not being able to ask a student in class a question to see if they're getting the information before I test them (every student learns differently after all). And then you have the fact that you can't answer a student's question right away either. It'd all be done by email, which might be hours later. Not to mention out goes tests that aren't open book unless you require all tests to be proctored.

Uh, you do realize you can have live online classes right? This isn't on a forum. Even current online schooling has this already in many areas. You can both see each other.
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So the answer is to run away from the problem and eliminate a whole bunch of jobs on top of it?
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As a future educator living in an area where there are already very little teaching jobs, no thanks.
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Youre basically taking away the only thing school is good at (social skills and independence) and magnifying the thing school is bad at (education)

Why not just have your own kid work remotely with a tutor instead of proposing to ruin all children
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Look at these pluses jesus christ

+Reduction of a lot of in person bullying
Not a plus, unless youre a helicopter parent who doesnt want their kid to experience anything negative before 18

+Reduction in costs
Sure
+ No snow days / ability to take part even when sick

Wow! An extra two days a year!!! Sometimes.

+ Almost complete reduction of school shootings and violence / better ability to prevent them

Yeah i personally would feel safer with an entire generation of antisocial shut ins without any social skills running around in the adult world. Those guys wouldnt be violent at all.

+ Prepares students for the technological world that waits them in much of the workforce

Is this even an issue? In america, most kids are growing up with technology even in the poorest conditions.
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SantaRPidgey posted...

+Reduction of a lot of in person bullying
Not a plus, unless youre a helicopter parent who doesnt want their kid to experience anything negative before 18

Wait, what

There's a big difference between "experiencing anything native" and flat out bullying. In what world is "Kids should be bullied" a thing
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SantaRPidgey posted...

Is this even an issue? In america, most kids are growing up with technology even in the poorest conditions.

My 5 year olds know more about my cell phone than I do. And I'm not remotely tech illiterate.
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lordloki12 posted...

So the answer is to run away from the problem and eliminate a whole bunch of jobs on top of it?

The answer to what? Schooling is a spiraling cost. There is no answer to it besides to adapt. Online schooling is the most adaptable way it could be anyways.
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HashtagSEP posted...

There's a big difference between "experiencing anything native" and flat out bullying. In what world is "Kids should be bullied" a thing

Probably a much better world than "kids should never be bullied ever"

Ask any dog trainer what happens if you keep puppies from biting each other when theyre little. Those are the ones who never learn how to control themselves, whats "play" and whats "pain"
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*reads topic*

*rubs hands together like that Raccoon*
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BTW, I do have a teaching degree.

The day when you can have a teacher with a livefeed to 20 students at a time with all them showing up to the teacher through their cams. He/She selects who she wants to answer questions by putting them up on the main feed for other students, able to remove them if behavior is unwarranted from screen to not distract other students learning, and so on.

There is no longer distractions of boys/girls on the opposite sex, what to wear, social stigma. No longer the one student who keeps talking out of turn or trying to derail the class. Talking to others on the side causing distractions to others. No longer students not able to properly hear the teacher or see the chalkboards. All these are removed in this setting.

The only distraction that can interfere is stability in the system and household distractions.

There is a lot of positives this system brings about. That said, there are negatives. No system is perfect.

You would still have your social events and such for those who wished to participate. Still have your sports. The classroom itself is just no longer in the school avenue. If students wish to mingle, they can do so. It just won't be in the classroom.
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School shootings are effectively non-existent in the vast majority of the developed world. Yet the sensible areas don't need to do this.

I think it's pretty obvious how to solve the problem.
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Lightning Strikes posted...

School shootings are effectively non-existent in the vast majority of the developed world. Yet the sensible areas don't need to do this.

I think it's pretty obvious how to solve the problem.

This is not a school shooting topic. This is a viability of schooling topic. That is simply a side perk.
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Corrik posted...

There is no longer distractions of boys/girls on the opposite sex, what to wear, social stigma. No longer the one student who keeps talking out of turn or trying to derail the class. Talking to others on the side causing distractions to others. No longer students not able to properly hear the teacher or see the chalkboards. All these are removed in this setting.

Have you ever read like, any dystopian literature ever?
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SantaRPidgey posted...

Corrik posted...

There is no longer distractions of boys/girls on the opposite sex, what to wear, social stigma. No longer the one student who keeps talking out of turn or trying to derail the class. Talking to others on the side causing distractions to others. No longer students not able to properly hear the teacher or see the chalkboards. All these are removed in this setting.

Have you ever read like, any dystopian literature ever?

Are you blind to where society is going?
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How would you indoctrinate kids to obey police, government, God without locking them in a building for 8 hours a day? This idea is completely ineffective
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Are you?
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SantaRPidgey posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

There's a big difference between "experiencing anything native" and flat out bullying. In what world is "Kids should be bullied" a thing

Probably a much better world than "kids should never be bullied ever"

Ask any dog trainer what happens if you keep puppies from biting each other when theyre little. Those are the ones who never learn how to control themselves, whats "play" and whats "pain"

Well, for one thing, dogs aren't people.

A good amount of kids learn that bullying is wrong without having to be bullied or bullying somebody else first.
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One thing I left out is that entrenched teachers will be soundly against this. They are not going to want to learn how to do it. Nor may some older ones even be capable of it. Also, it creates further accountability on the teachers as everything they do will be by nature always recorded.

Teachers will be against it full force.
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On the other hand, teachers will be able to be paid more by reducing costs across the board for much of the school, and property taxes would dip in districts.
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So one of your "improvements" was less teachers and now you are trying to tell us these livefeed classes are only going out to 20 kids at a time and we are going to pay them more? How does the math on that work? When was the last time anyone in a decent sized town had class sizes as low as 20?
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Yeah, no. If I have to stay home while my kid is taught online, I'm not gonna have any money to feed them.
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lordloki12 posted...

So one of your "improvements" was less teachers and now you are trying to tell us these livefeed classes are only going out to 20 kids at a time and we are going to pay them more? How does the math on that work? When was the last time anyone in a decent sized town had class sizes as low as 20?

There are tons of districts with that many kids per teacher, especially now. People are having less kids lately. This is one of the problems a lot of schools are having. They built these big schools 10-15 years ago and a lot of schools have less students now than then. So districts in many areas are looking to merge schools or merge districts, leaving defunct buildings and teachers who don't have full class loads.

I mean, it really depends on your area specifically. The good thing is that online schooling can adapt to fluctuations in student populations.
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I think when I subbed in Monessen (who desperately wants to merge with Belle Vernon School District (who along with neighboring Ringgold has merged some of their schools inside their districts)) that Monessen had classes with 4 to 20 students very regularly. (Granted the 4 student classes were their like top classes).
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lordloki12 posted...

So one of your "improvements" was less teachers and now you are trying to tell us these livefeed classes are only going out to 20 kids at a time and we are going to pay them more? How does the math on that work? When was the last time anyone in a decent sized town had class sizes as low as 20?

outsource to india bro
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Corrik posted...

You would still have your social events and such for those who wished to participate. Still have your sports. The classroom itself is just no longer in the school avenue. If students wish to mingle, they can do so. It just won't be in the classroom.

This kind of system could work for some kids, but it wouldn't have worked for me. When I was a kid I totally wouldn't have bothered with optional social events -- I'd rather stay home to read or whatever. But I got enough incidental social interaction through lunch, recess, chatting before class, etc. I think I'd be a worse person without, and definitely a more awkward one.

lordloki12 posted...

When was the last time anyone in a decent sized town had class sizes as low as 20?

I grew up in a decent-sized college town. Elementary/middle school had classes of around 25. For high school, big classes ran around 20-25 (for stuff everyone had to take like English and history). More niche things like creative writing or higher level language/science would be 10-15, sometimes less.
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foolm0r0n posted...

lordloki12 posted...

So one of your "improvements" was less teachers and now you are trying to tell us these livefeed classes are only going out to 20 kids at a time and we are going to pay them more? How does the math on that work? When was the last time anyone in a decent sized town had class sizes as low as 20?

outsource to india bro

That might work. He never specified that we would be paying american teachers more.
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lordloki12 posted...

foolm0r0n posted...

lordloki12 posted...

So one of your "improvements" was less teachers and now you are trying to tell us these livefeed classes are only going out to 20 kids at a time and we are going to pay them more? How does the math on that work? When was the last time anyone in a decent sized town had class sizes as low as 20?

outsource to india bro

That might work. He never specified that we would be paying american teachers more.

Your teachers would be in district. And report to the centralized building to teach. In my scenario.
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I dunno about having teenagers sitting around the house all day being bored.
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"Going" to school is so ingrained in our society I don't see this replacing the system in a large scale way.

Maybe both systems side by side?
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this sounds like a really good plan

are you looking forward to this when you turn 13?
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Honestly, its a good idea to discuss, even if Im personally against it.

Heres the thing I cant do online classes. Not at all. And I was valedictorian of my class. I would have been destroyed doing this because I learn optimally when I am around others. I know Im not the only one, too, and were sacrificing those kids to cut costs here.
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neonreaper posted...

I dunno about having teenagers sitting around the house all day being bored.

Well, remember school days would be shorter. Take out the bus rides and walking to classes. Homerooms could be streamlined into setup.

No more parents complaining the bus rides are too long. Classes would likely be starting later due time saved and waking up could be done later due to no busses. Etc.

No more parents complaining their student has to carry books around the halls to classes. No more wondering if a student is really going to the restroom or if they are smoking, writing grafitti, or whatever in the restroom. No more pdas, potentially harder access to student/teacher relationships.
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I'm not opposed to the idea. I can't imagine it's fun to come home to 3 teenagers that have been starting at a boring screen for 6 hours. I think they need to get out of the house and move around and talk to each other.
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No more parents complaining their student has to carry books around the halls to classes

is that a real thing people complain about?

all the kids are going to be lazy fatties who never have to leave their chair
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The "real" answer is just to wait until cyberbrains are a thing and literally just download all the information needed into a child in increments each year and let them play, be social, create and actually enjoy their childhood. Real talk that's more likely to be implemented than what's being proposed here.
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I don't see how 100% online could ever work for impoverished areas. Or just for particularly poor families in any area, where the kids rely on schools even if for nothing other than free meals.
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Gatarix posted...

I grew up in a decent-sized college town. Elementary/middle school had classes of around 25. For high school, big classes ran around 20-25 (for stuff everyone had to take like English and history). More niche things like creative writing or higher level language/science would be 10-15, sometimes less.

I grew up in a smaller suburb and the class sizes were 30ish for the core classes which is what I was really thinking of when it comes to class size. The more popular electives like spanish ran around 35. Ap classes and the niche classes were probably in the 15-20 range. So for my school district Corriks class size only works for the advanced placement classes and electives most people didnt want to take.

Corrik posted...

Your teachers would be in district. And report to the centralized building to teach. In my scenario.

Cool so now my district is hiring more teachers to meet your 20 student class size but firing everyone else who used to work there so we can pay them more. So even if I agreed an all online approach could work for the core curriculum(I don't), how would it work for anything requiring a hands on approach? In this scenario how does a video conferenced woodshop class work? You promised us there would still be plays. How does the drama class prepare for a play over Skype?
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mnkboy907 posted...

I don't see how 100% online could ever work for impoverished areas. Or just for particularly poor families in any area, where the kids rely on schools even if for nothing other than free meals.

Schools spend a lot of money per student everywhere. Students who take cyber school theoretically would cost the district less (if every student would be enrolled due to all the things that would no longer be necessary). They provide you with a computer, books, and even internet access.
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What about special ed? Students that get free/reduced lunch? Technical classes like shop/etc?
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lordloki12 posted...

Gatarix posted...

I grew up in a decent-sized college town. Elementary/middle school had classes of around 25. For high school, big classes ran around 20-25 (for stuff everyone had to take like English and history). More niche things like creative writing or higher level language/science would be 10-15, sometimes less.

I grew up in a smaller suburb and the class sizes were 30ish for the core classes which is what I was really thinking of when it comes to class size. The more popular electives like spanish ran around 35. Ap classes and the niche classes were probably in the 15-20 range. So for my school district Corriks class size only works for the advanced placement classes and electives most people didnt want to take.

Corrik posted...

Your teachers would be in district. And report to the centralized building to teach. In my scenario.

Cool so now my district is hiring more teachers to meet your 20 student class size but firing everyone else who used to work there so we can pay them more. So even if I agreed an all online approach could work for the core curriculum(I don't), how would it work for anything requiring a hands on approach? In this scenario how does a video conferenced woodshop class work? You promised us there would still be plays. How does the drama class prepare for a play over Skype?

If you are in an extracurricular activity you would meet to practice... seriously?

Do you really think they would learn how to play football over the internet? lmfao

Drama class can be taught over the internet, and in many cases, it may be beneficial as you could have direct feed back and film to see what you are doing and how to. If you are practicing for a play, that would just be an extracurricular activity in which you would meet for. Hence having the central localized building.

And, yes, if you have 30-40 students in a class that number is considered more than is optimal for a regular classroom. That number is very detrimental to learning for students at that age.
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This topic is accomplishing nothing.

This would fit in the Politics topic and no where else.

Corrik posted...

Your teachers would be in district. And report to the centralized building to teach. In my scenario.

Wait why if it's online?
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