Current Events > Trump's $4.4 trillion budget moves deficit sharply higher

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trumps-4-trillion-budget-helps-062340996.html

wtf we love deficits now

I wish people would stop taking first proposals like this at face value. It's basic bargaining... start higher than you want so you settle closer to what you were originally hoping for.

Even the article says as much:

Presidential budgets are often declared dead-on-arrival in Congress where lawmakers have their own ideas about spending priorities. But the documents do represent the most detailed elaboration of an administration's priorities.

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That's more than double the 2019 deficit the administration promised last year.

Republicans have absolutely zero legitimacy to ever criticize deficit spending ever again
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All the strippers and whores in the world couldn't suck more than the GOP has been in doing to the deficit.
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s0nicfan posted...

I wish people would stop taking first proposals like this at face value. It's basic bargaining... start higher than you want so you settle closer to what you were originally hoping for.

Even the article says as much:

Presidential budgets are often declared dead-on-arrival in Congress where lawmakers have their own ideas about spending priorities. But the documents do represent the most detailed elaboration of an administration's priorities.

Why would he want a high budget? What happened to fiscal conservatism?

s0nicfan posted...

I wish people would stop taking first proposals like this at face value. It's basic bargaining... start higher than you want so you settle closer to what you were originally hoping for.

Even the article says as much:

Presidential budgets are often declared dead-on-arrival in Congress where lawmakers have their own ideas about spending priorities. But the documents do represent the most detailed elaboration of an administration's priorities.

Yeah, and the administration's priority here is clearly to damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead on the deficit.
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Republican governments tend to raise our debt in order to spend, with the intent of creating economic growth. There are pros and cons to both methods.

byrone posted...

s0nicfan posted...

I wish people would stop taking first proposals like this at face value. It's basic bargaining... start higher than you want so you settle closer to what you were originally hoping for.

Even the article says as much:

Presidential budgets are often declared dead-on-arrival in Congress where lawmakers have their own ideas about spending priorities. But the documents do represent the most detailed elaboration of an administration's priorities.

Why would he want a high budget? What happened to fiscal conservatism?

Are you playing dumb here? He doesn't want a high budget. He's proposing a budget with significant cuts to things and significant spending on other things. Through the negotiation process, some cuts will be removed, and some added spending will be reduced. The result will be something closer to reality that allows both sides to feel they've made compromises but still got things they wanted.
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byrone posted...

wtf we love deficits now

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ArchiePeck posted...

Republican governments tend to raise our debt in order to spend, with the intent of creating economic growth. There are pros and cons to both methods.

How often does it really create significant economic growth?
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s0nicfan posted...

byrone posted...

s0nicfan posted...

I wish people would stop taking first proposals like this at face value. It's basic bargaining... start higher than you want so you settle closer to what you were originally hoping for.

Even the article says as much:

Presidential budgets are often declared dead-on-arrival in Congress where lawmakers have their own ideas about spending priorities. But the documents do represent the most detailed elaboration of an administration's priorities.

Why would he want a high budget? What happened to fiscal conservatism?

Are you playing dumb here? He doesn't want a high budget. He's proposing a budget with significant cuts to things and significant spending on other things. Through the negotiation process, some cuts will be removed, and some added spending will be reduced. The result will be something closer to reality that allows both sides to feel they've made compromises but still got things they wanted.

What happened to fiscal conservatism?

Big deficit = bad!

ArchiePeck posted...

Republican governments tend to raise our debt in order to spend, with the intent of creating economic growth. There are pros and cons to both methods.

one major con is driving up treasury yields

which drives up bond yields in general

which can kill equity values

imo it won't matter because this budget will be ignored and the status quo maintained

because congress doesnt want yields up and the fed is unlikely to enact another round of t-bond buying to drive yields back down

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TREAST
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byrone posted...

wtf we love deficits now

We have the best deficits, folks. Just the largest and most handsome, if I might say so. My predecessor could not even think about having such wonderful deficits, it's really, honestly, very sad.
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ArchiePeck posted...

Republican governments tend to raise our debt in order to spend, with the intent of creating economic growth. There are pros and cons to both methods.

Isn't that what both parties do? Increase spending to spur economic growth?

byrone posted...

ArchiePeck posted...

Republican governments tend to raise our debt in order to spend, with the intent of creating economic growth. There are pros and cons to both methods.

Isn't that what both parties do? Increase spending to spur economic growth?

Not really, Democrat governments tend to work on measures to reduce the deficit, on the premise that the less debt we have the more valuable our economy is to trade with.

As I said, pros and cons to both!

I'm not worried. You gotta spend money to make money. And Trump knows how to make money.
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what?! DEMOCRATS DONT WANNA PAY UP TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN?

oh no you'd rather fund surgeries for transvestites becoming gay children again.
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Bullet_Wing posted...

https://mobile.twitter.com/TopherSpiro/status/963100104357040130

BREAKING: Trump budget calls for ACA repeal and gutting Medicaid. It slashes health care by $675 billionfar more than the $230 billion CBO estimated for Graham-Cassidy repeal.

LMFAO! This is DOA in Congress. Trump is a fucking moron, as his Secretary of State says.

it is pretty impressive that the deficit could explode so much even with that proposal in the budget

it is too long for me to read through tbh
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Bullet_Wing posted...

LMFAO! This is DOA in Congress.

Try reading the article next time:

Presidential budgets are often declared dead-on-arrival in Congress where lawmakers have their own ideas about spending priorities.

"A lot of presidents' budgets are ignored. But I would expect this one to be completely irrelevant and totally ignored," said Jason Furman, a top economic adviser to President Barack Obama. "In fact, Congress passed a law last week that basically undid the budget before it was even submitted."

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s0nicfan posted...

Bullet_Wing posted...

LMFAO! This is DOA in Congress.

Try reading the article next time:

Presidential budgets are often declared dead-on-arrival in Congress where lawmakers have their own ideas about spending priorities.

"A lot of presidents' budgets are ignored. But I would expect this one to be completely irrelevant and totally ignored," said Jason Furman, a top economic adviser to President Barack Obama. "In fact, Congress passed a law last week that basically undid the budget before it was even submitted."

Ask for something that is ridiculous and DOA. What a great dealmaker!

Bullet_Wing posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Bullet_Wing posted...

LMFAO! This is DOA in Congress.

Try reading the article next time:

Presidential budgets are often declared dead-on-arrival in Congress where lawmakers have their own ideas about spending priorities.

"A lot of presidents' budgets are ignored. But I would expect this one to be completely irrelevant and totally ignored," said Jason Furman, a top economic adviser to President Barack Obama. "In fact, Congress passed a law last week that basically undid the budget before it was even submitted."

But this isn't the beginning of a negotiation, this is asking for something completely ridiculous from a place of ignorance.

It's no different than any other president ever and we shouldn't pretend this is some "uniquely stupid" trump behavior. It signals his priorities for the upcoming budget discussions. Nothing more.
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Bullet_Wing posted...

s0nicfan posted...

It's no different than any other president ever and we shouldn't pretend this is some "uniquely stupid" trump behavior. It signals his priorities for the upcoming budget discussions. Nothing more.

Do you ever get tired of defending a liar who constantly contradicts himself?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/596338364187602944

I was the first & only potential GOP candidate to state there will be no cuts to Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid. Huckabee copied me.

No, because I have no problem calling him out on his bullshit, such as the twitter post you linked to. I may defend some of his actions, but not all of them. See, there's this strange place where rational people live where they can see both the good and the bad of people's actions without having to assign a label to them so they can ignore what they're saying in favor of checking their label's list of "how I should treat them" before responding.

Trump can be a compulsive bullshitter on twitter and STILL be doing exactly what every other president has done prior to budget talks. Those things are not mutually exclusive. He can be a coarse, uncivilized man who says racist things and still sometimes have good policy. I defend when I think he's being unfairly criticized because I hate double standards. I know that makes me whatever label you're using this week because how dare I not treat literally everything he says and does like the end of the world, but that's my choice.
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s0nicfan posted...

It's no different than any other president ever and we shouldn't pretend this is some "uniquely stupid" trump behavior. It signals his priorities for the upcoming budget discussions. Nothing more.

you're right, its not uniquely stupid trump behavior.

its uniquely stupid republican and republican follower behavior. so much for not electing some dumb politician! really showing those liherals
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Nobody gives one ounce of a shit about the debt, and nor should they. GOP concern over the debt and deficit was always a reverse-engineered explanation for their opposition to Democratic programs, which tend to involve more government spending.

Likewise, any Democrat who suddenly cares about the deficit is doing their own cause a disservice.
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

That's more than double the 2019 deficit the administration promised last year.

Republicans have absolutely zero legitimacy to ever criticize deficit spending ever again

Are you new here? This is literally every term.

Democrat deficit: OBUMMER is bankrupting the country! Think of the children and troops!

Republican deficit: Who said deficits were bad? We love deficits!

but Trump not caring about budget deficits isn't mutually exclusive with the idea that he's using the budget proposal to set up a bargaining table

in fact the explosion of the deficit even in his proposed budget is an important aspect of setting his priorities
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Antifar posted...

Nobody gives one ounce of a shit about the debt, and nor should they. GOP concern over the debt and deficit was always a reverse-engineered explanation for their opposition to Democratic programs, which tend to involve more government spending.

Likewise, any Democrat who suddenly cares about the deficit is doing their own cause a disservice.

yeesh totally

why don't we just lower taxes to zero and increase spending at the same time, it won't matter
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This is funny because liberals should like this and conservatives should dislike this and, but the opposite will happen
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s0nicfan posted...

Bullet_Wing posted...

s0nicfan posted...

It's no different than any other president ever and we shouldn't pretend this is some "uniquely stupid" trump behavior. It signals his priorities for the upcoming budget discussions. Nothing more.

Do you ever get tired of defending a liar who constantly contradicts himself?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/596338364187602944

I was the first & only potential GOP candidate to state there will be no cuts to Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid. Huckabee copied me.

No, because I have no problem calling him out on his bullshit, such as the twitter post you linked to. I may defend some of his actions, but not all of them. See, there's this strange place where rational people live where they can see both the good and the bad of people's actions without having to assign a label to them so they can ignore what they're saying in favor of checking their label's list of "how I should treat them" before responding.

Trump can be a compulsive bullshitter on twitter and STILL be doing exactly what every other president has done prior to budget talks. Those things are not mutually exclusive. He can be a coarse, uncivilized man who says racist things and still sometimes have good policy. I defend when I think he's being unfairly criticized because I hate double standards. I know that makes me whatever label you're using this week because how dare I not treat literally everything he says and does like the end of the world, but that's my choice.

Missing the forest for the trees
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Damn_Underscore posted...

This is funny because liberals should like this and conservatives should dislike this and, but the opposite will happen

Your not even thinking before you respond. It's pathetic. Why would Liberals want liberal programs cut?
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Bandit_Keith posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

This is funny because liberals should like this and conservatives should dislike this and, but the opposite will happen

Your not even thinking before you respond. It's pathetic. Why would Liberals want liberal programs cut?

@Damn_Underscore

The idea is that he wants to spend a lot of money with the major intent of improving the country's infrastructure. It's easy to point to a few things wrong with it so you can disagree with it because Trump's doing it, but this budget is very Keynesian and therefore very liberal economically.
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To be fair in just one year we spent 250 billion in Afghanistan to build roads
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Ben_Ruggiero posted...

To be fair in just one year we spent 250 billion in Afghanistan to build roads

was that under obama?

under him our debt went from 10-19 trillion.

those 8 years our debt went up as much as almost all the presidents before him. so in that way he outspent all past republicans all by himself. i thought democrats spent less so i could not figure out where he spent it all.
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pokemonzero posted...

those 8 years our debt went up as much as almost all the presidents before him.

total debt is less relevant than debt as percent of gdp



as you can see the lion's share of the spike occurred during FY2008-2009, which was not a budget Obama could control at all. it was heavily influenced by a reduction in tax receipts from the recession.

the stimulus was a big spend early on in his presidency, but that was really the only big one. the ACA was revenue neutral.
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