Current Events > ADS and Sprint are the worst things to happen to the FPS genre

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Darmik 02/05/18 4:28:58 PM #1:	Not because the mechanics are inherently bad (they fit COD well) but because they are almost seen as requirements for FPS games even though they're really not needed. An FPS game doesn't inherently need an aim button ffs. Waggling a gun in front of my face to make me feel like I'm running fast is also not a necessity. This has lead to a lot of FPS games feeling samey. The game design has to take those balance choices into account. So we get a lot of 'stop and pop' FPS gameplay design. Unfortunately a lot of gamers out there want uniformity in control schemes so I doubt this will change anytime soon. There's the odd exception out there. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:895519935] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>Not because the mechanics are inherently bad (they fit COD well) but because they are almost seen as requirements for FPS games even though they're really not needed. An FPS game doesn't inherently need an aim button ffs. Waggling a gun in front of my face to make me feel like I'm running fast is also not a necessity. This has lead to a lot of FPS games feeling samey. The game design has to take those balance choices into account. So we get a lot of 'stop and pop' FPS gameplay design. Unfortunately a lot of gamers out there want uniformity in control schemes so I doubt this will change anytime soon. There's the odd exception out there.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
flussence 02/05/18 4:29:50 PM #2:	e-sports are the worst thing to happen to FPS games --- u <cite>flussence posted [p:895519992] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>e-sports are the worst thing to happen to FPS games</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NeverOffended 02/05/18 4:30:37 PM #3:	party chat was the worst <cite>NeverOffended posted [p:895520046] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>party chat was the worst</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
eston 02/05/18 4:34:52 PM #4:	An FPS game doesn't inherently need an aim button ffs This is obviously true, as many FPS games of the past did not have it, however including a distinction between hip-firing and sight aiming not only makes loads of sense in context, it also adds another layer of gameplay to a genre that can be rather shallow at times. --- http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i215/estonc/grizzly_bear_chairs_2.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8kjZU.jpg <cite>eston posted [p:895520353] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><quote>An FPS game doesn't inherently need an aim button ffs</quote> This is obviously true, as many FPS games of the past did not have it, however including a distinction between hip-firing and sight aiming not only makes loads of sense in context, it also adds another layer of gameplay to a genre that can be rather shallow at times.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Giant_Aspirin 02/05/18 4:36:29 PM #5:	one reason why DOOM (2016) was so refreshing --- Playing: Dark Souls III (PC) *(~);} - Get out the pans, don't just stand there dreamin' - {;(~)* <cite>Giant_Aspirin posted [p:895520446] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>one reason why DOOM (2016) was so refreshing</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 02/05/18 4:38:26 PM #6:	eston posted... An FPS game doesn't inherently need an aim button ffs This is obviously true, as many FPS games of the past did not have it, however including a distinction between hip-firing and sight aiming not only makes loads of sense in context, it also adds another layer of gameplay to a genre that can be rather shallow at times. The mechanic itself isn't really adding a layer of anything. It's a button that slows down player movement to give more accurate aiming. That's it. The same thing could be accomplished by changing weapon accuracy depending on the players movement speed. Or by giving crouch more accurate aiming. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:895520568] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>eston posted...</cite> <quote><quote>An FPS game doesn't inherently need an aim button ffs</quote> This is obviously true, as many FPS games of the past did not have it, however including a distinction between hip-firing and sight aiming not only makes loads of sense in context, it also adds another layer of gameplay to a genre that can be rather shallow at times.</quote> The mechanic itself isn't really adding a layer of anything. It's a button that slows down player movement to give more accurate aiming. That's it. The same thing could be accomplished by changing weapon accuracy depending on the players movement speed. Or by giving crouch more accurate aiming.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Damn_Underscore 02/05/18 4:45:50 PM #7:	MW2 is still the best multiplayer FPS ever made --- Shenmue II = best game of all time Shenmue = 2nd best game of all time <cite>Damn_Underscore posted [p:895521057] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>MW2 is still the best multiplayer FPS ever made</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AvantgardeAClue 02/05/18 4:47:39 PM #8:	Giant_Aspirin posted... one reason why DOOM (2016) was so refreshing Doom also had plenty of modern mechanics that balanced out the old school vibe. Anyway, sprint buttons are okay for me, but respawning on Overwatch takes way too much time for those who aren't DPS characters. Aiming though? Have you seen Rainbow Six Siege? Aiming is a big deal for certain shooters and not nearly as much for others. --- Sometimes I say things and I'm not voice acting. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted [p:895521163] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>Giant_Aspirin posted...</cite> <quote>one reason why DOOM (2016) was so refreshing</quote> Doom also had plenty of modern mechanics that balanced out the old school vibe. Anyway, sprint buttons are okay for me, but respawning on Overwatch takes way too much time for those who aren't DPS characters. Aiming though? Have you seen Rainbow Six Siege? Aiming is a big deal for certain shooters and not nearly as much for others.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doe 02/05/18 4:47:44 PM #9:	flussence posted... e-sports are the worst thing to happen to FPS games definitely gimped Overwatch, CSGO is fine though --- https://i.imgur.com/tviNQV5.jpg https://i.imgur.com/SJT9tyG.png <cite>Doe posted [p:895521169] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>flussence posted...</cite> <quote>e-sports are the worst thing to happen to FPS games</quote> definitely gimped Overwatch, CSGO is fine though</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
charey 02/05/18 4:48:52 PM #10:	Aim down sights isnt a bad feature, it can let you set engagements at different ranges with the same weapon. The problem with ADS is the penelty to hip fire that goes with it in modern shooters which means you cant effectivly engage while moving. Sprinting plays into this by making your full movement speed lock out any combat options you have, again forcing you to stay still in order to fight. I know you didnt mention these but there are a few more standard game mechanics in modern shooters turning them into stop and go affairs. Regenerating health which means if you do get hit the best plan is to hide from combat entirely. Cover systems that make it so you dont even need to move anymore once the fight starts just sit down for a bit when the screen gets red, dont worry the bad guys will wait for you. It all combines into a game of red light green light rather then a fun combat encounter. --- I won't have it! I'm not having anyone talk about me in the past tense! ~Squall Leonhart <cite>charey posted [p:895521235] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>Aim down sights isnt a bad feature, it can let you set engagements at different ranges with the same weapon. The problem with ADS is the penelty to hip fire that goes with it in modern shooters which means you cant effectivly engage while moving. Sprinting plays into this by making your full movement speed lock out any combat options you have, again forcing you to stay still in order to fight. I know you didnt mention these but there are a few more standard game mechanics in modern shooters turning them into stop and go affairs. Regenerating health which means if you do get hit the best plan is to hide from combat entirely. Cover systems that make it so you dont even need to move anymore once the fight starts just sit down for a bit when the screen gets red, dont worry the bad guys will wait for you. It all combines into a game of red light green light rather then a fun combat encounter.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gnomefromnome 02/05/18 4:49:00 PM #11:	..there was a Sprint Ad last night? --- Oh my God... That was the dumbest collection of dumbosity I've ever seen! - Famine https://youtu.be/pOtTxMC1ZZQ <cite>gnomefromnome posted [p:895521245] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>..there was a Sprint Ad last night?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AsucaHayashi 02/05/18 4:50:18 PM #12:	ADS has always been around for guns that actually needed it like scoped rifles etc. who seriously cares about aiming down the "sight" of a standard handgun? --- http://abload.de/img/pcgamingxtuvt.jpg http://i.imgur.com/9Yv0R2Z.jpg <cite>AsucaHayashi posted [p:895521319] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>ADS has always been around for guns that actually needed it like scoped rifles etc. who seriously cares about aiming down the "sight" of a standard handgun?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 02/05/18 4:51:31 PM #13:	I think they fit modern shooters fine unless they're going for an arcade feel. But sci-fi shooters don't need them. Those are the games that give the opportunity to have players constantly running and using creative weapons and moves and feeling like a badass. Seems like a waste to just have the typical COD gameplay for those games. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:895521411] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>I think they fit modern shooters fine unless they're going for an arcade feel. But sci-fi shooters don't need them. Those are the games that give the opportunity to have players constantly running and using creative weapons and moves and feeling like a badass. Seems like a waste to just have the typical COD gameplay for those games.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AvantgardeAClue 02/05/18 4:59:00 PM #14:	AsucaHayashi posted... ADS has always been around for guns that actually needed it like scoped rifles etc. who seriously cares about aiming down the "sight" of a standard handgun? People who want the mechanics of a gun to be more than who can aim the crosshair over the other guy first? --- Sometimes I say things and I'm not voice acting. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted [p:895521867] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>AsucaHayashi posted...</cite> <quote>ADS has always been around for guns that actually needed it like scoped rifles etc. who seriously cares about aiming down the "sight" of a standard handgun?</quote> People who want the mechanics of a gun to be more than who can aim the crosshair over the other guy first?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 02/05/18 5:04:53 PM #15:	AvantgardeAClue posted... AsucaHayashi posted... ADS has always been around for guns that actually needed it like scoped rifles etc. who seriously cares about aiming down the "sight" of a standard handgun? People who want the mechanics of a gun to be more than who can aim the crosshair over the other guy first? I think ADS/Sprint encourages that design more since it's limiting your options. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:895522220] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>AvantgardeAClue posted...</cite> <quote><cite>AsucaHayashi posted...</cite> <quote>ADS has always been around for guns that actually needed it like scoped rifles etc. who seriously cares about aiming down the "sight" of a standard handgun?</quote> People who want the mechanics of a gun to be more than who can aim the crosshair over the other guy first?</quote> I think ADS/Sprint encourages that design more since it's limiting your options.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
I_Stay_Noided 02/05/18 5:04:57 PM #16:	FPS design has been going downhill since 1999 <cite>I_Stay_Noided posted [p:895522227] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>FPS design has been going downhill since 1999</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AsucaHayashi 02/05/18 5:05:19 PM #17:	AvantgardeAClue posted... People who want the mechanics of a gun to be more than who can aim the crosshair over the other guy first? so you're saying they're not getting that type of mechanic with scoped guns? --- http://abload.de/img/pcgamingxtuvt.jpg http://i.imgur.com/9Yv0R2Z.jpg <cite>AsucaHayashi posted [p:895522255] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>AvantgardeAClue posted...</cite> <quote>People who want the mechanics of a gun to be more than who can aim the crosshair over the other guy first?</quote> so you're saying they're not getting that type of mechanic with scoped guns?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
90s 02/05/18 5:06:23 PM #18:	best --- You secretly prepared for Y2K. <cite>90s posted [p:895522325] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>best</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Trumpo 02/05/18 5:06:46 PM #19:	Play CS or Insurgency <cite>Trumpo posted [p:895522343] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>Play CS or Insurgency</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 02/05/18 5:09:16 PM #20:	Yeah scopes are a different thing and have always been around. They clearly give a distinct advantage compared to non-scoped guns. They give you a clear and zoomed line of sight which increases your range. They're usually limited to a specific weapons too. I think ADS swallowed up the alt-fire button for a lot of developers. So you could easily have a sniper rifle that has a scope as the alt-fire button for example. IIRC this was how Unreal Tournament did it. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:895522508] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>Yeah scopes are a different thing and have always been around. They clearly give a distinct advantage compared to non-scoped guns. They give you a clear and zoomed line of sight which increases your range. They're usually limited to a specific weapons too. I think ADS swallowed up the alt-fire button for a lot of developers. So you could easily have a sniper rifle that has a scope as the alt-fire button for example. IIRC this was how Unreal Tournament did it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Webmaster4531 02/05/18 5:09:57 PM #21:	It's ridiculous they put it in Halo 5. --- Ad Hominem. <cite>Webmaster4531 posted [p:895522551] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>It's ridiculous they put it in Halo 5.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ZombiePelican 02/05/18 5:15:00 PM #22:	Why don't you blame your precious corporations for copying CoD instead of doing their own thing? --- https://i.imgur.com/SiKIsHD.jpg https://i.imgur.com/V62ygzP.jpg https://i.imgur.com/M0MRS6S.gifv https://i.imgur.com/Lc56ify.jpg <cite>ZombiePelican posted [p:895522847] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>Why don't you blame your precious corporations for copying CoD instead of doing their own thing?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Romulox28 02/05/18 5:17:02 PM #23:	i agree with you TC. ADS is annoying to me because it messes with hipfire and movement in a lot of games, but to me sprinting is the bigger culprit. with sprinting, your gameplay now revolves around you being stationary and shooting, or sprinting and not shooting to take cover. you can't really run and gun anymore. it also fucks up multiplayer design for a lot of games, because now players can cover more ground quicker and maps need to be bigger with longer corridors and shit, which ruins the flow. case in point for ADS and sprint fucking up a game: Halo 5. ADS was totally unnecessary and the map design really suffered as a result of sprint being standard --- http://i.imgur.com/LhwwG.gif <cite>Romulox28 posted [p:895522982] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>i agree with you TC. ADS is annoying to me because it messes with hipfire and movement in a lot of games, but to me sprinting is the bigger culprit. with sprinting, your gameplay now revolves around you being stationary and shooting, or sprinting and not shooting to take cover. you can't really run and gun anymore. it also fucks up multiplayer design for a lot of games, because now players can cover more ground quicker and maps need to be bigger with longer corridors and shit, which ruins the flow. case in point for ADS and sprint fucking up a game: Halo 5. ADS was totally unnecessary and the map design really suffered as a result of sprint being standard</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 02/05/18 5:17:42 PM #24:	ZombiePelican posted... Why don't you blame your precious corporations for copying CoD instead of doing their own thing? I...am? And http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-01-31-nintendo-switch-outsold-wii-u-in-less-than-a-year --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:895523030] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>ZombiePelican posted...</cite> <quote>Why don't you blame your precious corporations for copying CoD instead of doing their own thing?</quote> I...am? And http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-01-31-nintendo-switch-outsold-wii-u-in-less-than-a-year</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 02/05/18 5:20:59 PM #25:	Romulox28 posted... i agree with you TC. ADS is annoying to me because it messes with hipfire and movement in a lot of games, but to me sprinting is the bigger culprit. with sprinting, your gameplay now revolves around you being stationary and shooting, or sprinting and not shooting to take cover. you can't really run and gun anymore. it also fucks up multiplayer design for a lot of games, because now players can cover more ground quicker and maps need to be bigger with longer corridors and shit, which ruins the flow. case in point for ADS and sprint fucking up a game: Halo 5. ADS was totally unnecessary and the map design really suffered as a result of sprint being standard I agree completely. It's sad because I don't know if Halo will close that Pandora's box anymore. It's just not the same. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:895523237] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>Romulox28 posted...</cite> <quote>i agree with you TC. ADS is annoying to me because it messes with hipfire and movement in a lot of games, but to me sprinting is the bigger culprit. with sprinting, your gameplay now revolves around you being stationary and shooting, or sprinting and not shooting to take cover. you can't really run and gun anymore. it also fucks up multiplayer design for a lot of games, because now players can cover more ground quicker and maps need to be bigger with longer corridors and shit, which ruins the flow. case in point for ADS and sprint fucking up a game: Halo 5. ADS was totally unnecessary and the map design really suffered as a result of sprint being standard</quote> I agree completely. It's sad because I don't know if Halo will close that Pandora's box anymore. It's just not the same.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AvantgardeAClue 02/05/18 5:21:39 PM #26:	AsucaHayashi posted... AvantgardeAClue posted... People who want the mechanics of a gun to be more than who can aim the crosshair over the other guy first? so you're saying they're not getting that type of mechanic with scoped guns? There's a reason scoped guns were godly in early shooters that had them; they provided a distinct advantage over guns that didn't have them. What more is hip-firing guns other than a spray and pray fiesta every single time? Look at a game like R6S, where headshots are instant kills. Taking time to aim is rewarded more than just firing from the hip, or even aiming center mass. So no, there is no vacuum where games with ADS are killing the FPS genre. DOOM 4 works without ADS because your guns are lasers with explosive hitboxes the size of refrigerators, you move so fast it's like a permanent sprint, and your enemies do the same. ADS/sprinting aren't necessary because the game doesn't make them so. --- Sometimes I say things and I'm not voice acting. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted [p:895523281] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>AsucaHayashi posted...</cite> <quote><cite>AvantgardeAClue posted...</cite> <quote>People who want the mechanics of a gun to be more than who can aim the crosshair over the other guy first?</quote> so you're saying they're not getting that type of mechanic with scoped guns?</quote> There's a reason scoped guns were godly in early shooters that had them; they provided a distinct advantage over guns that didn't have them. What more is hip-firing guns other than a spray and pray fiesta every single time? Look at a game like R6S, where headshots are instant kills. Taking time to aim is rewarded more than just firing from the hip, or even aiming center mass. So no, there is no vacuum where games with ADS are killing the FPS genre. DOOM 4 works without ADS because your guns are lasers with explosive hitboxes the size of refrigerators, you move so fast it's like a permanent sprint, and your enemies do the same. ADS/sprinting aren't necessary because the game doesn't make them so.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tyranthraxus 02/05/18 5:24:07 PM #27:	Sprint I'm okay with. It's really more of an evolution of the CS mechanic where you ran faster with your knife out. ADS was basically invented for consoles though since you can't fucking aim with an analog stick. Most ADS games include better aim assist or aim snapping when you first go into the ironsight so you can actually it the thing you're looking at. --- https://puu.sh/tcLsT/24f4611235.png https://i.imgur.com/dQgC4kv.jpg <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:895523427] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>Sprint I'm okay with. It's really more of an evolution of the CS mechanic where you ran faster with your knife out. ADS was basically invented for consoles though since you can't fucking aim with an analog stick. Most ADS games include better aim assist or aim snapping when you first go into the ironsight so you can actually it the thing you're looking at.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 02/05/18 5:28:41 PM #28:	AvantgardeAClue posted... What more is hip-firing guns other than a spray and pray fiesta every single time? It's only 'hip firing' if the game has ADS. Otherwise it's just firing your gun. Older games with accurate crosshair aiming weren't spray and pray. They often relied on getting the headshot. AvantgardeAClue posted... So no, there is no vacuum where games with ADS are killing the FPS genre. DOOM 4 works without ADS because your guns are lasers with explosive hitboxes the size of refrigerators, you move so fast it's like a permanent sprint, and your enemies do the same. ADS/sprinting aren't necessary because the game doesn't make them so. That's my point. By forcing nearly every game to have sprint and ADS you can't have games that do different stuff like this. Uniformity stifles creativity and innovation. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:895523702] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>AvantgardeAClue posted...</cite> <quote>What more is hip-firing guns other than a spray and pray fiesta every single time?</quote> It's only 'hip firing' if the game has ADS. Otherwise it's just firing your gun. Older games with accurate crosshair aiming weren't spray and pray. They often relied on getting the headshot. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted...</cite> <quote>So no, there is no vacuum where games with ADS are killing the FPS genre. DOOM 4 works without ADS because your guns are lasers with explosive hitboxes the size of refrigerators, you move so fast it's like a permanent sprint, and your enemies do the same. ADS/sprinting aren't necessary because the game doesn't make them so.</quote> That's my point. By forcing nearly every game to have sprint and ADS you can't have games that do different stuff like this. Uniformity stifles creativity and innovation.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Romulox28 02/05/18 5:30:19 PM #29:	AvantgardeAClue posted... AsucaHayashi posted... AvantgardeAClue posted... People who want the mechanics of a gun to be more than who can aim the crosshair over the other guy first? so you're saying they're not getting that type of mechanic with scoped guns? There's a reason scoped guns were godly in early shooters that had them; they provided a distinct advantage over guns that didn't have them. What more is hip-firing guns other than a spray and pray fiesta every single time? Look at a game like R6S, where headshots are instant kills. Taking time to aim is rewarded more than just firing from the hip, or even aiming center mass. So no, there is no vacuum where games with ADS are killing the FPS genre. DOOM 4 works without ADS because your guns are lasers with explosive hitboxes the size of refrigerators, you move so fast it's like a permanent sprint, and your enemies do the same. ADS/sprinting aren't necessary because the game doesn't make them so. the thing is that 10 - 15 years ago, rainbow six siege would be considered a tactical shooter, so it makes sense to have these mechanics in it. nowadays every shooter is more or less the same from a shooting perspective, sharing most of the same gameplay mechanics, controls, etc, and when you have some kind of a game that doesnt fit the mold, having the tactical shooter mechanics forced into it kind of sucks (i.e. Halo 5). --- http://i.imgur.com/LhwwG.gif <cite>Romulox28 posted [p:895523801] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>AvantgardeAClue posted...</cite> <quote><cite>AsucaHayashi posted...</cite> <quote><cite>AvantgardeAClue posted...</cite> <quote>People who want the mechanics of a gun to be more than who can aim the crosshair over the other guy first?</quote> so you're saying they're not getting that type of mechanic with scoped guns?</quote> There's a reason scoped guns were godly in early shooters that had them; they provided a distinct advantage over guns that didn't have them. What more is hip-firing guns other than a spray and pray fiesta every single time? Look at a game like R6S, where headshots are instant kills. Taking time to aim is rewarded more than just firing from the hip, or even aiming center mass. So no, there is no vacuum where games with ADS are killing the FPS genre. DOOM 4 works without ADS because your guns are lasers with explosive hitboxes the size of refrigerators, you move so fast it's like a permanent sprint, and your enemies do the same. ADS/sprinting aren't necessary because the game doesn't make them so.</quote> the thing is that 10 - 15 years ago, rainbow six siege would be considered a tactical shooter, so it makes sense to have these mechanics in it. nowadays every shooter is more or less the same from a shooting perspective, sharing most of the same gameplay mechanics, controls, etc, and when you have some kind of a game that doesnt fit the mold, having the tactical shooter mechanics forced into it kind of sucks (i.e. Halo 5).</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Broseph_Stalin 02/05/18 5:31:56 PM #30:	Can't think of a single FPS game I play that has either of those. <cite>Broseph_Stalin posted [p:895523909] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>Can't think of a single FPS game I play that has either of those.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AvantgardeAClue 02/05/18 5:39:20 PM #31:	Darmik posted... That's my point. By forcing nearly every game to have sprint and ADS you can't have games that do different stuff like this. Uniformity stifles creativity and innovation. I don't think Overwatch necessarily gains anything from being a mostly hip-fire shooter, nor do I think it's creative/innovative. It all depends on the way its utilized. CoD having a sprint mechanic was necessary because of the nature of the shooter. Now if you're arguing that certain games have no business having one or the other, I agree. But it's not right to accuse it as being toxic to the genre as a whole. --- Sometimes I say things and I'm not voice acting. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted [p:895524372] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote> That's my point. By forcing nearly every game to have sprint and ADS you can't have games that do different stuff like this. Uniformity stifles creativity and innovation.</quote> I don't think Overwatch necessarily gains anything from being a mostly hip-fire shooter, nor do I think it's creative/innovative. It all depends on the way its utilized. CoD having a sprint mechanic was necessary because of the nature of the shooter. Now if you're arguing that certain games have no business having one or the other, I agree. But it's not right to accuse it as being toxic to the genre as a whole.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 02/05/18 5:50:14 PM #32:	AvantgardeAClue posted... I don't think Overwatch necessarily gains anything from being a mostly hip-fire shooter, nor do I think it's creative/innovative. It all depends on the way its utilized. CoD having a sprint mechanic was necessary because of the nature of the shooter. I know. I discuss that in the OP. I never said the mechanic is outright bad. Just that it isn't needed for every game. AvantgardeAClue posted... Now if you're arguing that certain games have no business having one or the other, I agree. But it's not right to accuse it as being toxic to the genre as a whole. The reason I consider it toxic is that there's a big mentality that FPS games need these mechanics. Halo was used as an example and is a victim of it. Likewise shooters like Titanfall, Wolfenstein and even RPG's like Fallout have all used them. It's almost like developers are afraid to design an FPS without them. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:895525068] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>AvantgardeAClue posted...</cite> <quote>I don't think Overwatch necessarily gains anything from being a mostly hip-fire shooter, nor do I think it's creative/innovative. It all depends on the way its utilized. CoD having a sprint mechanic was necessary because of the nature of the shooter.</quote> I know. I discuss that in the OP. I never said the mechanic is outright bad. Just that it isn't needed for every game. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted...</cite> <quote>Now if you're arguing that certain games have no business having one or the other, I agree. But it's not right to accuse it as being toxic to the genre as a whole.</quote> The reason I consider it toxic is that there's a big mentality that FPS games need these mechanics. Halo was used as an example and is a victim of it. Likewise shooters like Titanfall, Wolfenstein and even RPG's like Fallout have all used them. It's almost like developers are afraid to design an FPS without them.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AvantgardeAClue 02/05/18 5:51:56 PM #33:	Fallout 4 needed it because it was a poor shooter without it and a weak RPG if you could only rely on it. --- Sometimes I say things and I'm not voice acting. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted [p:895525181] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>Fallout 4 needed it because it was a poor shooter without it and a weak RPG if you could only rely on it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AmonAmarth 02/05/18 5:54:04 PM #34:	I agree with ADS, it slowed down gaming, and stuff. I came from a generation of gmaes without it. early wolfenstein multiplayer games, and such games. as for sprint? again the games I had were faster paced, and you could sprint and strafe. I liked it. there was also trick jumping and stuff. (it was kinda like a sligtly slower version of quake, but with WW2 teams, but faster than Cod). sigh. those types are not popular anymore. --- i7-4790@ 3.6GHZ \| GA-Z97-HD3 \| ASUS GTX 960 2GB \| Samsung 850 EVO 250GB \| 1TB HDD \| CX750M \| 12GB DDR3 <cite>AmonAmarth posted [p:895525308] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>I agree with ADS, it slowed down gaming, and stuff. I came from a generation of gmaes without it. early wolfenstein multiplayer games, and such games. as for sprint? again the games I had were faster paced, and you could sprint and strafe. I liked it. there was also trick jumping and stuff. (it was kinda like a sligtly slower version of quake, but with WW2 teams, but faster than Cod). sigh. those types are not popular anymore.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Webmaster4531 02/05/18 5:56:03 PM #35:	Titanfall was made by former Infinity Ward so having ads and sprint are completely understandable. The problem was they didn't have a single player for the original and they tried to directly compete against 2(3 including MW4:R) shooters in a crowded holiday season. --- Ad Hominem. <cite>Webmaster4531 posted [p:895525440] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>Titanfall was made by former Infinity Ward so having ads and sprint are completely understandable. The problem was they didn't have a single player for the original and they tried to directly compete against 2(3 including MW4:R) shooters in a crowded holiday season.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
weapon_d00d816 02/05/18 5:58:50 PM #36:	ADS is the BEST thing that ever happened. Hipfiring 100% of the time and zooming in by squinting really hard is extremely moronic and antiquated. --- SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SlG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SlG <cite>weapon_d00d816 posted [p:895525617] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>ADS is the BEST thing that ever happened. Hipfiring 100% of the time and zooming in by squinting really hard is extremely moronic and antiquated.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 02/05/18 5:58:51 PM #37:	Webmaster4531 posted... Titanfall was made by former Infinity Ward so having ads and sprint are completely understandable. The problem was they didn't have a single player for the original and they tried to directly compete against 2(3 including MW4:R) shooters in a crowded holiday season. I think one of the issues with Titanfall is that it never really escaped being seen as 'COD with mechs' People who wanna play COD will stick to COD. COD didn't become king by becoming Halo set in the modern day. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:895525618] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>Webmaster4531 posted...</cite> <quote>Titanfall was made by former Infinity Ward so having ads and sprint are completely understandable. The problem was they didn't have a single player for the original and they tried to directly compete against 2(3 including MW4:R) shooters in a crowded holiday season.</quote> I think one of the issues with Titanfall is that it never really escaped being seen as 'COD with mechs' People who wanna play COD will stick to COD. COD didn't become king by becoming Halo set in the modern day.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 02/05/18 6:00:36 PM #38:	weapon_d00d816 posted... ADS is the BEST thing that ever happened. Hipfiring 100% of the time and zooming in by squinting really hard is extremely moronic and antiquated. Squinting? What? A lot of the time you see less using ADS. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:895525758] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>weapon_d00d816 posted...</cite> <quote>ADS is the BEST thing that ever happened. Hipfiring 100% of the time and zooming in by squinting really hard is extremely moronic and antiquated.</quote> Squinting? What? A lot of the time you see less using ADS.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
weapon_d00d816 02/05/18 6:01:10 PM #39:	Darmik posted... weapon_d00d816 posted... ADS is the BEST thing that ever happened. Hipfiring 100% of the time and zooming in by squinting really hard is extremely moronic and antiquated. Squinting? What? A lot of the time you see less using ADS. What are you talking about? --- SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SlG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SlG <cite>weapon_d00d816 posted [p:895525791] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote><cite>weapon_d00d816 posted...</cite> <quote>ADS is the BEST thing that ever happened. Hipfiring 100% of the time and zooming in by squinting really hard is extremely moronic and antiquated.</quote> Squinting? What? A lot of the time you see less using ADS.</quote> What are you talking about?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Webmaster4531 02/05/18 6:03:55 PM #40:	Darmik posted... Webmaster4531 posted... Titanfall was made by former Infinity Ward so having ads and sprint are completely understandable. The problem was they didn't have a single player for the original and they tried to directly compete against 2(3 including MW4:R) shooters in a crowded holiday season. I think one of the issues with Titanfall is that it never really escaped being seen as 'COD with mechs' People who wanna play COD will stick to COD. COD didn't become king by becoming Halo set in the modern day. The original sold very well but didn't have staying power. It was the first game to experiment with advanced movement which was copied back into COD. I still say all Titanfall 2 needed was better release timing. --- Ad Hominem. <cite>Webmaster4531 posted [p:895525953] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Webmaster4531 posted...</cite> <quote>Titanfall was made by former Infinity Ward so having ads and sprint are completely understandable. The problem was they didn't have a single player for the original and they tried to directly compete against 2(3 including MW4:R) shooters in a crowded holiday season.</quote> I think one of the issues with Titanfall is that it never really escaped being seen as 'COD with mechs' People who wanna play COD will stick to COD. COD didn't become king by becoming Halo set in the modern day.</quote> The original sold very well but didn't have staying power. It was the first game to experiment with advanced movement which was copied back into COD. I still say all Titanfall 2 needed was better release timing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 02/05/18 6:04:54 PM #41:	weapon_d00d816 posted... Darmik posted... weapon_d00d816 posted... ADS is the BEST thing that ever happened. Hipfiring 100% of the time and zooming in by squinting really hard is extremely moronic and antiquated. Squinting? What? A lot of the time you see less using ADS. What are you talking about? https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/callofduty/images/f/f4/Ripper_SMG_ADS.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140307075155 http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/255674-halo-3-xbox-360-screenshot-my-npc-buddy-is-helping-me-against.jpg Why would you be squinting in the bottom screenshot but not the top? --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:895526027] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>weapon_d00d816 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote><cite>weapon_d00d816 posted...</cite> <quote>ADS is the BEST thing that ever happened. Hipfiring 100% of the time and zooming in by squinting really hard is extremely moronic and antiquated.</quote> Squinting? What? A lot of the time you see less using ADS.</quote> What are you talking about?</quote> https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/callofduty/images/f/f4/Ripper_SMG_ADS.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140307075155 http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/255674-halo-3-xbox-360-screenshot-my-npc-buddy-is-helping-me-against.jpg Why would you be squinting in the bottom screenshot but not the top?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
weapon_d00d816 02/05/18 6:15:31 PM #42:	Darmik posted... weapon_d00d816 posted... Darmik posted... weapon_d00d816 posted... ADS is the BEST thing that ever happened. Hipfiring 100% of the time and zooming in by squinting really hard is extremely moronic and antiquated. Squinting? What? A lot of the time you see less using ADS. What are you talking about? https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/callofduty/images/f/f4/Ripper_SMG_ADS.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140307075155 http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/255674-halo-3-xbox-360-screenshot-my-npc-buddy-is-helping-me-against.jpg Why would you be squinting in the bottom screenshot but not the top? Oh, that's not what I meant by squinting. I was making a joke to explain the seemingly miraculous zoom you gain by doing absolutely nothing. --- SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SlG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SlG <cite>weapon_d00d816 posted [p:895526679] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote><cite>weapon_d00d816 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote><cite>weapon_d00d816 posted...</cite> <quote>ADS is the BEST thing that ever happened. Hipfiring 100% of the time and zooming in by squinting really hard is extremely moronic and antiquated.</quote> Squinting? What? A lot of the time you see less using ADS.</quote> What are you talking about?</quote> https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/callofduty/images/f/f4/Ripper_SMG_ADS.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140307075155 http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/255674-halo-3-xbox-360-screenshot-my-npc-buddy-is-helping-me-against.jpg Why would you be squinting in the bottom screenshot but not the top?</quote> Oh, that's not what I meant by squinting. I was making a joke to explain the seemingly miraculous zoom you gain by doing absolutely nothing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 02/05/18 6:27:00 PM #43:	weapon_d00d816 posted... Oh, that's not what I meant by squinting. I was making a joke to explain the seemingly miraculous zoom you gain by doing absolutely nothing. Is that better than the explanation that you have eyes on the top of your stomach to make hip firing make any sense? <_< --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:895527289] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>weapon_d00d816 posted...</cite> <quote>Oh, that's not what I meant by squinting. I was making a joke to explain the seemingly miraculous zoom you gain by doing absolutely nothing.</quote> Is that better than the explanation that you have eyes on the top of your stomach to make hip firing make any sense? <_<</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GATTJT 02/05/18 6:31:45 PM #44:	ZombiePelican posted... Why don't you blame your precious corporations for copying CoD instead of doing their own thing? Why don't you close your account? --- http://steamcommunity.com/id/gamerfanfan/wishlist <cite>GATTJT posted [p:895527587] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>ZombiePelican posted...</cite> <quote>Why don't you blame your precious corporations for copying CoD instead of doing their own thing?</quote> Why don't you close your account?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AmonAmarth 02/05/18 7:32:20 PM #45:	Webmaster4531 posted... The original sold very well but didn't have staying power. It was the first game to experiment with advanced movement which was copied back into COD. which game are you speaking of? ("original sold")? --- i7-4790@ 3.6GHZ \| GA-Z97-HD3 \| ASUS GTX 960 2GB \| Samsung 850 EVO 250GB \| 1TB HDD \| CX750M \| 12GB DDR3 <cite>AmonAmarth posted [p:895531521] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>Webmaster4531 posted...</cite> <quote> The original sold very well but didn't have staying power. It was the first game to experiment with advanced movement which was copied back into COD.</quote> which game are you speaking of? ("original sold")?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Webmaster4531 02/05/18 7:47:40 PM #46:	AmonAmarth posted... Webmaster4531 posted... The original sold very well but didn't have staying power. It was the first game to experiment with advanced movement which was copied back into COD. which game are you speaking of? ("original sold")? Titanfall 1. --- Ad Hominem. <cite>Webmaster4531 posted [p:895532542] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>AmonAmarth posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Webmaster4531 posted...</cite> <quote> The original sold very well but didn't have staying power. It was the first game to experiment with advanced movement which was copied back into COD.</quote> which game are you speaking of? ("original sold")?</quote> Titanfall 1.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
I_Stay_Noided 02/05/18 8:27:13 PM #47:	Webmaster4531 posted... It was the first game to experiment with advanced movement uh no it wasnt lmao <cite>I_Stay_Noided posted [p:895535036] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>Webmaster4531 posted...</cite> <quote>It was the first game to experiment with advanced movement</quote> uh no it wasnt lmao</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Webmaster4531 02/05/18 8:29:41 PM #48:	I_Stay_Noided posted... Webmaster4531 posted... It was the first game to experiment with advanced movement uh no it wasnt lmao Well first successful game. --- Ad Hominem. <cite>Webmaster4531 posted [p:895535180] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>I_Stay_Noided posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Webmaster4531 posted...</cite> <quote>It was the first game to experiment with advanced movement</quote> uh no it wasnt lmao</quote> Well first successful game.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
I_Stay_Noided 02/05/18 8:30:10 PM #49:	Webmaster4531 posted... I_Stay_Noided posted... Webmaster4531 posted... It was the first game to experiment with advanced movement uh no it wasnt lmao Well first successful game. uh no it wasnt lmao <cite>I_Stay_Noided posted [p:895535203] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote><cite>Webmaster4531 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>I_Stay_Noided posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Webmaster4531 posted...</cite> <quote>It was the first game to experiment with advanced movement</quote> uh no it wasnt lmao</quote> Well first successful game.</quote> uh no it wasnt lmao</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
weapon_d00d816 02/05/18 8:31:23 PM #50:	Yeah advanced movement was already old by the time Titanfall got its hands on it. --- SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SlG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SlG <cite>weapon_d00d816 posted [p:895535283] in ADS and Sp... [t:76286516]...</cite> <quote>Yeah advanced movement was already old by the time Titanfall got its hands on it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > ADS and Sprint are the worst things to happen to the FPS genre (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > ADS and Sprint are the worst things to happen to the FPS genre