Current Events > I figured it out guys. Rian Johnson wanted you to hate the Last Jedi (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

The movie was made intentionally bad and he did it to troll everyone.

I did a video review which you can find here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht_IBUkSbgY

[/shameless plug]

But I ain't gonna force you to watch my shit. The point is everything in this movie is so bad that it absolutely has to be intentional, and there's so many times in the movie that they break the fourth wall and talk directly to the audience with heavy-handed shit that you can just see it's Rian Johnson shouting "Look what they made me do!"

And then Luke just up and dies at the end for no reason? Disney obviously wanted to push him out so they could stop paying Mark Hamill and Harrison Ford kind of money for actors.
The whole movie is basically "Our parents are to blame for all our problems" and "Stop liking the old things and just accept what we're giving you!"

It had to be purposely bad, right?
That's the only way it works.
---

yea okay
---

I liked it.

I feel like 'hating popular stuff' is worst now because of Youtube. People shamelessly plugging their shitty overblown problems because it is easily produced clickbait that gets the attention of both people who liked it and people who didn't.

Dash_Harber posted...

I liked it.

I feel like 'hating popular stuff' is worst now because of Youtube. People shamelessly plugging their shitty overblown problems because it is easily produced clickbait that gets the attention of both people who liked it and people who didn't.

Naw there's no money in YouTube anymore. I just do it for fun.

But what did you enjoy about the film?
---

Dash_Harber posted...

I feel like 'hating popular stuff' is worst now because of Youtube.

If anything I think it's the opposite. A movie reviewer whose name I can't remember right now coined the term 'apology press'. Everyone is so goody goody and generous to movies, particularly franchise ones, so they keep getting mediocre free crap or invites to special premiere events and so on.
---

Stalolin posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

I feel like 'hating popular stuff' is worst now because of Youtube.

If anything I think it's the opposite. A movie reviewer whose name I can't remember right now coined the term 'apology press'. Everyone is so goody goody and generous to movies, particularly franchise ones, so they keep getting mediocre free crap or invites to special premiere events and so on.

Can definitely agree with this. I used to work for microsoft on public relations and the amount of money spent on "goodwill" is absurd.
---

I personally thought it was pretty good with some issues. Luke dying at the end made more sense when someone speculated that he sent his Force energy to the rest of the galaxy, supported by the fact that the kid at the end was suddenly shown as Force-sensitive.
---

Jorep posted...

But what did you enjoy about the film?

Really? Okay.

Space battles, lightsaber duels, space wizards, great action, dramatic twists, basic arguments of good v.s. evil, nostalgic cameos, the explorations of more Star Wars lore, new characters, quirky aliens, cool vehicles and starships, a storyline that emphasized it's bad to deify heroes and obsessive over legends, the shirking of expectations, and a satisfying explanation for Kylo Ren's character.

I mean, that's the whole fucking point of Space Operas, isn't it?

Awful review. You didn't understand the movie.

Stalolin posted...

If anything I think it's the opposite. A movie reviewer whose name I can't remember right now coined the term 'apology press'. Everyone is so goody goody and generous to movies, particularly franchise ones, so they keep getting mediocre free crap or invites to special premiere events and so on.

In ideal conditions, I'd agree. However, 90% of these 'reviews' are just people making the same arguments word-for-word copied from other critics over and over again.

It was a not very good movie
---

Jorep posted...

The point is everything in this movie is so bad that it absolutely has to be intentional, and there's so many times in the movie that they break the fourth wall and talk directly to the audience with heavy-handed shit that you can just see it's Rian Johnson shouting "Look what they made me do!"

I did get this vibe.
---

Dash_Harber posted...

Jorep posted...

But what did you enjoy about the film?

Really? Okay.

Space battles, lightsaber duels, space wizards, great action, dramatic twists, basic arguments of good v.s. evil, nostalgic cameos, the explorations of more Star Wars lore, new characters, quirky aliens, cool vehicles and starships, a storyline that emphasized it's bad to deify heroes and obsessive over legends, the shirking of expectations, and a satisfying explanation for Kylo Ren's character.

I mean, that's the whole fucking point of Space Operas, isn't it?

I'll give that the battle in the beginning was dope, but there were no good lightsaber duels in the film. The Praetorian Guard scene barely counts and it was dull anyway, and the final battle that should have been awesome was a copout.
In an odd way the movie was both incredibly safe but exceptionally obtuse, answering questions nobody asked, cutting off the vein of questions that narratively required answers, and asking questions nobody cares about the answer to.

Did love the crystal foxes, though.

Ammonitida posted...

Awful review. You didn't understand the movie.

My bad. I'll watch it again.
---

Jorep posted...

I'll give that the battle in the beginning was dope, but there were no good lightsaber duels in the film. The Praetorian Guard scene barely counts and it was dull anyway, and the final battle that should have been awesome was a copout.
In an odd way the movie was both incredibly safe but exceptionally obtuse, answering questions nobody asked, cutting off the vein of questions that narratively required answers, and asking questions nobody cares about the answer to.

I disagree.

Dash_Harber posted...

Jorep posted...

I'll give that the battle in the beginning was dope, but there were no good lightsaber duels in the film. The Praetorian Guard scene barely counts and it was dull anyway, and the final battle that should have been awesome was a copout.
In an odd way the movie was both incredibly safe but exceptionally obtuse, answering questions nobody asked, cutting off the vein of questions that narratively required answers, and asking questions nobody cares about the answer to.

I disagree.

Fair.
I respect your right to disagree about an opinion of subjective entertainment.
---

Jorep posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Jorep posted...

I'll give that the battle in the beginning was dope, but there were no good lightsaber duels in the film. The Praetorian Guard scene barely counts and it was dull anyway, and the final battle that should have been awesome was a copout.
In an odd way the movie was both incredibly safe but exceptionally obtuse, answering questions nobody asked, cutting off the vein of questions that narratively required answers, and asking questions nobody cares about the answer to.

I disagree.

Fair.
I respect your right to disagree with an opinion of subjective entertainment.

You are honestly being unexpectedly reasonable for a person that came in with an intentionally provocative clickbait argument to shill their Youtube video.

Dash_Harber posted...

Jorep posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Jorep posted...

I'll give that the battle in the beginning was dope, but there were no good lightsaber duels in the film. The Praetorian Guard scene barely counts and it was dull anyway, and the final battle that should have been awesome was a copout.
In an odd way the movie was both incredibly safe but exceptionally obtuse, answering questions nobody asked, cutting off the vein of questions that narratively required answers, and asking questions nobody cares about the answer to.

I disagree.

Fair.
I respect your right to disagree with an opinion of subjective entertainment.

You are honestly being unexpectedly reasonable for a person that came in with an intentionally provocative clickbait argument to shill their Youtube video.

Shilling to an extent I'll give you - I make videos for fun because I have a dayjob I don't plan on quitting and I definitely appreciate if and when people are able to check them out, but I don't ever want to push that on people. I also wanted to give the summary of my video in the topic and open it up for further discussion because I absolutely understand how rude it can come off to just pop up your own topic and say "Hey guys here's my video and I want you to watch it!"

But I wouldn't call it intentionally provocative or clickbait. We definitely disagree on our opinions of the movie but this is how I honestly feel about it. When it comes to stuff like movies or videogames though everyone has their own set of likes and dislikes and something that one person thinks is a work of art could be absolute trash to another person.

Really I just wanna hang out and chat about Star Wars XD
---

Jorep posted...

But I wouldn't call it intentionally provocative or clickbait.

Then maybe don't accuse a multi-million dollar franchise of intentionally making a bad movie just to fuck with fans.

Does kinda seem like TLJ didn't have a ton of battle scenes or saber fights. The opening scene was ok but not great, the fight with the guards was ok but not great. The entire last scene was pretty meh overall. I don't remember much outside of that. I need more warring in muh Star Warz!
---

Dash_Harber posted...

Jorep posted...

But I wouldn't call it intentionally provocative or clickbait.

Then maybe don't accuse a multi-million dollar franchise of intentionally making a bad movie just to fuck with fans.

Hey man, it's only clickbait when you don't follow through. Like if I had my title as "Tiddies in video" but didn't have any tiddies LOL
I think to an extent they absolutely did that. I think Rian Johnson saw just how awful the ideas for the new trilogy were and had a list of contractual obligations from Disney, and chose to just go full bore with those in the best sardonic protest since Johnathan Swift was in his prime.

stoltenberg11 posted...

Does kinda seem like TLJ didn't have a ton of battle scenes or saber fights. The opening scene was ok but not great, the fight with the guards was ok but not great. The entire last scene was pretty meh overall. I don't remember much outside of that. I need more warring in muh Star Warz!

@stoltenberg11 freaking exactly, man. I wanted a major lightsaber duel, some more space battles, just some more action scenes that could really wow us. We got too much of stuff like the Phasma fight which is cool for like a second, and then just ends.

Which speaking of I do really like that Stormtrooper stun baton thing Finn always uses. It's a neat weapon.
---

Jorep posted...

That's the only way it works.

---

Banjo2553 posted...

I personally thought it was pretty good with some issues. Luke dying at the end made more sense when someone speculated that he sent his Force energy to the rest of the galaxy, supported by the fact that the kid at the end was suddenly shown as Force-sensitive.

Luke isn't some payload of the Force; him dying will not suddenly unleash a large amount of it anywhere as a result.

Of course, that's all up to Disney at this point.
---

AvantgardeAClue posted...

Luke isn't some payload of the Force; him dying will not suddenly unleash a large amount of it anywhere as a result.

I took it as, "I'm a 60-year-old man who just shot my consciousness across several galaxies, and now I'm probably going to die".

Jorep posted...

Disney obviously wanted to push him out so they could stop paying Mark Hamill and Harrison Ford kind of money for actors.

lol @ you if you actually think Luke isn't going to be in the next movie as a Force Ghost. Hell, he might as well have explicitly stated it with his line to Kylo about "if you strike me down in anger I will be with you forever."

Luke's gonna haunt the shit outta Kylo. Would actually be kind of interesting if he tries to finish teaching him and bring him back from the dark side as a force ghost.
---

Where I'm at right now with my feelings on TLJ. Saw it twice. Wouldn't have but we had tickets. It was pure shit imho.
I'm placing it only above TPM and AOTC but the more time passes, the more I think about it. The more I wonder if it truly belongs beneath even those.

Because for all the problems the PT had. And there were a lot of problems. And I'm not absolving them of their abject terribleness. I think you can chalk all the issues in the PT up to the in general incompetence of George Lucas calling all the shots. Merchandising and general incompetence.
But with TLJ. The only thing that I feel wafting off this turd is maliciousness from it's sole writer and director. All it's bs. It's throwing away of introduced plot points from TFA. The disrespect of Luke's character. The plot holes. The terrible, terrible writing.
It feels intentional. It's bad in a way that feels directly intentional. A big "fuck you" to it all.

I can dismiss the PT as incompetence.
But TLJ feels intentionally malicious in every way.

It absolutely feels like asshole Rian Johnson never even watched a SW movie before. Didn't care about established characters, already introduced plot elements or the rules by which certain things function in that universe. It's so complete in it's dismantling of everything it handles that it can't possibly be anything other than intentional.
---

Dash_Harber posted...

I took it as, "I'm a 60-year-old man who just shot my consciousness across several galaxies, and now I'm probably going to die".

I agree. It's clearly a very draining and exhausting power.

I mean Kylo says to Rey early in the film with regards to force projection: "There's no way you're doing this, the effort would kill you."

Also TC I didn't watch your review but

@Jorep posted...

and there's so many times in the movie that they break the fourth wall

when the hell did they break the fourth wall

Jorep posted...

And then Luke just up and dies at the end for no reason? Disney obviously wanted to push him out so they could stop paying Mark Hamill and Harrison Ford kind of money for actors.

I mean

A) His arc kinda came full circle. I felt the death was rather abrupt, but I appreciate the significance of it and what they were going for

B) You don't understand how contracts work, apparently.

Jorep posted...

The whole movie is basically "Our parents are to blame for all our problems" and "Stop liking the old things and just accept what we're giving you!"

I mean the theme of the film is stated outright by Kylo: "Let the past die"

The film is at its core about freeing yourself from what came before and trying to build something new/different while carrying on what worked.

That is the significance of Luke/Rey's arc and "I will not be the last Jedi"

It wasn't particularly subtle, either.

@EternalDivide posted...

stuff

Did you have specific criticisms or just vague non-specific rantings about how the movie was awful and Rian Johnson is literally evil?
---

Jorep posted...

It had to be purposely bad, right?
That's the only way it works.

Joke's on him, 'cause I liked it!
---

Jorep posted...

Praetorian Guard and it was dull anyway

Wow. Even the haters tended to like that scene. Yeah, you're trolling. Damn, you even made a Youtube video for the purpose. That's some dedication there.

people who disliked The Last Jedi have garbage taste in film
---

@Doom_Art no worries man. Re the fourth wall the most egregious instance is when Kylo and Rey are fighting over the lightsaber and Kylo's basically shouting directly at the audience, but then there's the bit with Leia at the end too where she's telling Luke "You showed up at the end. That's all that matters."
A theme of letting the past die would be all right with me if it wasn't so in your face as a metaphor to a divided fanbase.

@Ammonitida no trolling, man, I just found it to be a dull scene. Maybe the level of what we appreciate in terms of action scenes has been degraded as an audience over the years, but there was no technically flair to it. Each Praetorian guard had a sort of different weapon but very little focus on what they could accomplish, or how/why they were dangerous.
Daisy Ridley should have been trained better for the lightsaber fight because she just sort of fumbled around, and while I'll admit that watching Kylo Ren swing his like a claymore was pretty sick, it's not enough to save the fight.
There's very little in terms of dramatic stakes to the battle either, because they've just killed Snoke and while you're well aware Rey/Kylo will win, the Praetorian Guard doesn't feel particularly threatening.

Like sure it's neat when Kylo busts a hole in that dude's face, but it can't save a middling battle.
I did some quick looking but it's a little early to find and link the battle itself for comparison, but comparing it to other lightsaber battles of the series it's incredibly lacking. It may be a little disingenuous to compare it directly to Cloud City's exchange between Luke and Vader because of the sheer gravitas of that scene in the cinematic world, but we are in the same series so I think it's appropriate.

What I think the movie really needed was a true lightsaber duel or, at the very least, an equivalently high-stakes battle.

shockthemonkey posted...

I can understand not liking the movie but some of you are legitimately crazy if you think this was anything more than just a Star Wars movie you dont like.

I mean with the way everyone has a hidden agenda anymore, whether it's positive in nature (forced diversity) or negative (propaganda) I don't put anything out of the realm of possibility.
---

Jorep posted...

is when Kylo and Rey are fighting over the lightsaber and Kylo's basically shouting directly at the audience

what the hell are you talking about

Jorep posted...

but then there's the bit with Leia at the end too where she's telling Luke "You showed up at the end. That's all that matters."

She's referring to the end of the Resistance and likely her life.

I would've thought that was obvious

Jorep posted...

, but there was no technically flair to it. Each Praetorian guard had a sort of different weapon but very little focus on what they could accomplish, or how/why they were dangerous.

I was a very technically impressive fight, Iunno what you're on about with that.

I mean the focus on what they could accomplish and why they're dangerous is made clear rather quickly.

Jorep posted...

you're well aware Rey/Kylo will win

That's like every duel in the saga though.

The victor is always fairly obvious.

Jorep posted...

forced diversity

Oh god you're one of those people. Fucking ew
---

shockthemonkey posted...

lmao just proving my point

i hate how guys like that are always "on"

like there's always some sort of grand sjw conspiracy or hidden political point in literally everything

it must be fucking exhausting to live like that
---

I think its just white entitlement
---

Doom_Art posted...

I agree. It's clearly a very draining and exhausting power.

I mean Kylo says to Rey early in the film with regards to force projection: "There's no way you're doing this, the effort would kill you."

Ah, then yeah his death makes sense.
---

Doom_Art posted...

like there's always some sort of grand sjw conspiracy or hidden political point in literally everything

Social justice does play a part in Last Jedi but it's not as bad some make it out to be. It feels like it seeped into the film but not through deliberate "Ok we're gonna make this about social justice!" design. Basically, it isn't quite preachy about it even if some of it's obvious.

It isn't the reason why Last Jedi fails as good sequel to Force Awakens.
---

Funbazooka posted...

Doom_Art posted...

like there's always some sort of grand sjw conspiracy or hidden political point in literally everything

Social justice does play a part in Last Jedi but it's not as bad some make it out to be. It feels like it seeped into the film but not through deliberate "Ok we're gonna make this about social justice!" design. Basically, it isn't quite preachy about it even if some of it's obvious.

It isn't the reason why Last Jedi fails as good sequel to Force Awakens.

No, it succeeds as a great sequel to the FA.

Huh.

It's almost like different people have different opinions LOL
---

Banjo2553 posted...

I personally thought it was pretty good with some issues. Luke dying at the end made more sense when someone speculated that he sent his Force energy to the rest of the galaxy, supported by the fact that the kid at the end was suddenly shown as Force-sensitive.

Yep he did. Plus they've been alluding to physical dying doesn't mean you're completely gone. Force gods and shit.
---