Poll of the Day > Guys, I wanna learn to code in like 6-9 months to make money

(+) Yeah! (+)

How many hours a week should I spend learning? Where the hell do I start?

I'm currently a teacher, and am pretty busy as of now.

I want to eventually make money from coding.

Coders have a shelf life of like 34, so as soon as possible unless you're doing it as a hobby.

dedbus posted...

Coders have a shelf life of like 34

What do you mean? Are you saying it's hard to get a job when you're older?

I'm turning 27 next month

green dragon posted...

What do you mean? Are you saying it's hard to get a job when you're older?

I'm turning 27 next month

lmfao

Idk what they're talking about. but here's what I'm told you NEED in order to make $$$ coding:

1) To be certified
2) Experience coding in a job OR have some crazy coding project on the side

That's what I heard from a friend of mine and it makes sense. Jobs don't want to train anymore, they basically want you to fix all their problems on the get go

@Zangulus is prob the best person I can think of who can help
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I don't know. I learned a little bit of code in college and at work but it doesn't seem like it's enough to get me a job. I'm trying to learn on my own but I'm not sure if that's the best approach

Thanks for the replies.

What are your thoughts on coding bootcamps? I want potentially work part time, but idk if that's really feasible.

green dragon posted...

How many hours a week should I spend learning?

as many as possible. I don't think you could spend too much time. even working on it on a daily basis for many years, I'm constantly learning.

green dragon posted...

Where the hell do I start?

really I have no idea, but I tend to suggest Java, since it's a good OOP language without tons of features. it would teach you the nuts and bolts of OOP without overcomplicating things (though now with Java 8 that might be a bit different). other possibilities include C#, C/C++, or Python.

mastermix3000 posted...

That's what I heard from a friend of mine and it makes sense. Jobs don't want to train anymore, they basically want you to fix all their problems on the get go with little to no handholding

the thing with programming is that the difference between an experienced programmer and an inexperienced one is astronomical, so there tends to be WAY more senior positions than junior and intermediate. also there's little or no part-time work because programming is not really something you can do well unless you're devoting constant time to the same project.

the key challenge is always just how well what you write can scale. it's "easy" to write a small program that does something simple. it's very hard to write multiple large-scale programs that all interact with each other.
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I also kinda want to learn to program. I regret taking a web design course instead of C#, but the problem was I had signed up for C++ (which was listed in the coursebook) and they weren't actually doing it that semester.

Granted, what I'd want to do is learn enough programming to make a game. Realistically, though, it might be easier to just work everything out then pay somebody else to do the coding, the artwork, etc... although that would be a somewhat risky investment so maybe coding is the way to go.
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Zeus posted...

Realistically, though, it might be easier to just work everything out then pay somebody else to do the coding, the artwork, etc... although that would be a somewhat risky investment so maybe coding is the way to go.

This sounds like the "idea guy" attitude, which sounds nice in principle but doesn't tend to work in reality

Since this is an "I want to learn programming" topic let me ask experienced programmers a question: Is it better, when self-teaching, to start with a low level language like C, or a high level language like Java?

I always felt the former was better because you have to also learn about the workings of the underlying system, like processes, threading, memory management, and file I/O. In higher level language such things can be obscured by the language and you don't have to worry about it, which leaves you with a huge gap in knowledge.

But then again my knowledge of programming doesn't really extend beyond C/C++, Python, and bash.
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Zangulus posted...

kind9 posted...

Since this is an "I want to learn programming" topic let me ask experienced programmers a question: Is it better, when self-teaching, to start with a low level language like C, or a high level language like Java?

I always felt the former was better because you have to also learn about the workings of the underlying system, like processes, threading, memory management, and file I/O. In higher level language such things can be obscured by the language and you don't have to worry about it, which leaves you with a huge gap in knowledge.

It really doesnt matter, as you should learn how to Learn. Youll never know every last thing about programming, so learning how to look things up and debug code will still be a thing regardless.

And it wont tske you too long to find your first seg fault if you switch to a low level language from a high one, thus leading you down the never ending shithole thats is pointers, double pointers, memory allocation, freeing, and random access lists...

I think the reasoning I've heard about learning low level stuff first is that when using a high level language you could encounter situations that actually require lower level knowledge. I don't know of any examples though, maybe it's not really an issue like I thought.

I guess you're right though. In such situations you can search for a solution to the problem and thus your knowledge grows.
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Hey zang, I thought you were a parts manufacturer. Never knew you knew about programming

kind9 posted...

Since this is an "I want to learn programming" topic let me ask experienced programmers a question: Is it better, when self-teaching, to start with a low level language like C, or a high level language like Java?

I tend to suggest Java, so that you can learn good software design principles first. I don't really know if that's great advice. Personally I had to learn "structured programming" principles only to later unlearn them and replace them with OOP and modern practices. it also will depend on what you're aiming to build:

desktop business applications: C#, Java
systems programming: C
game programming: C++, C#
web applications: well... a lot of different things (I use TypeScript, JQuery, LESS, and ASP.NET/C#)
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Do it as much as possible, then do it more. The example I always give people are two semi-famous video game coders: Tom Hall and Scott Cawthan.

Tom Hall worked on a lot of ID software stuff like Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, etc. However, he made a TON of stuff before he even got considered for bigger projects. He even lists a lot of them on his site:

https://tomtomtom.wordpress.com/toms-games/

Just for reference, he worked on about 50 games before Commander Keen, which was probably the first one he saw any real money from.

Scott Cawthon is known for Five Nights at Freddy's, but he also worked on and released a ton of stuff before Five Nights at Freddy's:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Cawthon#Gameography

I could probably list a ton more examples, but these are the two that actually put out there most or all of their projects. Granted, I work in the professional "office" type environment (and I don't program so much as design larger projects), but even I can say that I have worked on hundreds of projects, and written tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of lines of code, and I am still not at the place where I can become an "architect" (someone who designs and builds a large software system from scratch).
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Sahuagin posted...

kind9 posted...

Since this is an "I want to learn programming" topic let me ask experienced programmers a question: Is it better, when self-teaching, to start with a low level language like C, or a high level language like Java?

I tend to suggest Java, so that you can learn good software design principles first. I don't really know if that's great advice.

Java is a great starting place. People also can use Python as a good starting language, but it doesn't have as much mainstream adaption as Java. Not that I hate Python, just that when you look at how many 3rd party tools exist for Java compared to Python there is no doubt which one makes things easier for bigger projects.

Once you learn the fundamentals with Java, transitioning to something like C/C++/C# is a lot easier.
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Dikitain posted...

Sahuagin posted...

kind9 posted...

Since this is an "I want to learn programming" topic let me ask experienced programmers a question: Is it better, when self-teaching, to start with a low level language like C, or a high level language like Java?

I tend to suggest Java, so that you can learn good software design principles first. I don't really know if that's great advice.

Java is a great starting place. People also can use Python as a good starting language, but it doesn't have as much mainstream adaption as Java. Not that I hate Python, just that when you look at how many 3rd party tools exist for Java compared to Python there is no doubt which one makes things easier for bigger projects.

Once you learn the fundamentals with Java, transitioning to something like C/C++/C# is a lot easier.

I've used python for creating GUI front-ends for existing software and it's unbelievably easy to get something up and running quickly, but when I tried using it to do a lot of number crunching it slows to a crawl. I also looked into file archiving libs and learned that they are terribly slow in python. I really like python for the simple, intuitive syntax, but I pretty much quit using it for anything other than simple scripts.

Also python only took like two days to learn, so I guess that's a pro.
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Zangulus posted...

My basic rule is this:

I want to program X. How do I do that?
Okay, inside of X I need to do ABCDEF and G.

An untrained person won't know they need to do ABC... they'll often fixate instead on trying to do Q which is an extremely roundabout way of accomplishing A in an inefficient way
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Has anyone used codecademy? I've tried using them, and they seem decent. Is that a good route for learning code?

I only used the free version, but it seemed like garbage. They pretty much just tell you what to write at each step, so I don't feel like I was actually learning much. The paid version might be better since it gives you projects, but you'd probably be better of just coming up with projects on your own or googling any number of free sites to find project ideas. Also, I had a software manager on a job interview tell me those sites "don't work", but I'm sure he isn't representative of every high-level developer's opinion.

You might want to just look up other resources for whatever language you're looking into. I've been doing this one for JavaScript lately:

https://javascript.info/

I like it a lot better than Codecademy since it really goes through a lot more of the language. None of these almost-completed scripts where they ask you to put it one line of code before telling you what it does. This one is a lot less interactive, though, so I'd recommend taking notes as you go along or taking the time to write some examples. For me, I already knew C++ so I'm not taking notes on stuff that's the same, and it isn't too bad so far but you might need to remember a lot more.

the best/fastest way to learn JavaScript that I found was watching Douglas Crockford's lectures.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2ifWcnQs6M&list=PL5586336C26BDB324

he's very opinionated and isn't always right, but these proved *very* useful to me, in fact I basically learned JavaScript in one or two weeks.

I'm not sure what they'd be like to someone who doesn't already know programming, though. probably you should at least understand HTML. (which isn't that hard)
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Is a lecture from 2007 even relevant for JS anymore? Of course some of the basics are gonna be the same, but I imagine it's stuff like arithmetic operations and loops that are common to several languages anyway. In terms of using it for web design, so much has changed in functionality and design approach since 2007. There's also more general stuff like var vs. let - and I'm sure plenty others, but I'm still pretty beginner with JS.

SteamedHams posted...

Is a lecture from 2007 even relevant for JS anymore? Of course some of the basics are gonna be the same, but I imagine it's stuff like arithmetic operations and loops that are common to several languages anyway. In terms of using it for web design, so much has changed in functionality and design approach since 2007. There's also more general stuff like var vs. let - and I'm sure plenty others, but I'm still pretty beginner with JS.

I was just thinking about that. Yeah, these lectures will talk about (IIRC) ECMAScript 5. (ECMAScript is the name of the standard which defines JavaScript.) The current standard is ECMAScript 6, and browsers will very soon be moving to ECMAScript 7. But it's not that the information is not relevant, it's just that there becomes new ways of doing things. You just have to then brush on what ECMAScript 6 allows, which can be found here:

http://es6-features.org
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don't almost all employers will want to have this certified, they won't just take your word for it
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I am a software/systems engineer. I self taught myself how to code. Like, I had one class on coding, and it was in C.

Like it's not even hard.
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AwesomeTurtwig posted...

Like, I had one class on coding, and it was in C. Like it's not even hard.

and what were you doing, writing text menus and tic-tac-toe?

I remember a young guy asking me if C++ was "hard". it's probably the single most complex language, so it's maybe as "hard" as it gets, but it's going to depend more on what you're doing with it.

Smallville posted...

don't almost all employers will want to have this certified, they won't just take your word for it

that's what interviews are for, not that I've ever had a coding interview
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Consider just coding apps or flash games etc in your spare time for now, start off with clicker games, or incremental games as they are very easy to code and can be popular. You can post them to websites like kong etc and get some income from adds that way. It'll get you practice and your name out there. You can do this in your spare time while teaching, so you'll still have a primary income.

Work up from there, some of those games ended up making serious money for the coders eventually. You might get one popular enough to sell on steam etc eventually.

Other ideas are to start working on muds etc (though they are mostly in C+ still which isn't as relevant anymore) this is a good way to learn coding quickly as there is tons of code for you to observe and use as templates etc, and you'll be usually working on a team with others who can give you advice etc.

I have not tried coding apps, but people make bank that way as well, so if you can do that eventually you could probably easily make a living that way.
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wolfy42 posted...

flash games

Don't literally do this. Flash is basically dead.

Sahuagin posted...

AwesomeTurtwig posted...

Like, I had one class on coding, and it was in C. Like it's not even hard.

and what were you doing, writing text menus and tic-tac-toe?

I remember a young guy asking me if C++ was "hard". it's probably the single most complex language, so it's maybe as "hard" as it gets, but it's going to depend more on what you're doing with it.

Smallville posted...

don't almost all employers will want to have this certified, they won't just take your word for it

that's what interviews are for, not that I've ever had a coding interview

so you're not going to get a degree in it? i meant they're gonna want a degree or something. You're gonna go into the interview and say trust me?
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JebronLames posted...

so you're not going to get a degree in it? i meant they're gonna want a degree or something. You're gonna go into the interview and say trust me?

I have a degree, but many positions will say "or equivalent experience". what matters is whether or not you can program well, and that isn't really proven by having a degree. it's the interview process that will determine if you can solve real problems or not. obviously, having a degree is still better than not having one.
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I don't have a degree in CS, but I have an EE degree, so I can't speak to the experience of people with no sort of formal credentials whatsoever. I can get a fair amount of interviews, but I haven't gotten a job yet, so I'm not sure if what I have is enough.

Zangulus posted...

Thats what portfolios are for

See, this is my thought process. And I live near seattle, so I'm not sure if that helps or hurts me. There's a lot of tech jobs near here, but I'm sure there's so many techies applying to those jobs.

Sahuagin posted...

AwesomeTurtwig posted...

Like, I had one class on coding, and it was in C. Like it's not even hard.

and what were you doing, writing text menus and tic-tac-toe?

I remember a young guy asking me if C++ was "hard". it's probably the single most complex language, so it's maybe as "hard" as it gets, but it's going to depend more on what you're doing with it.

In the class or work? In the class I don't remember. At work I develop a high fidelity radar model which communicates with other elements of a combat system. Very tough to explain.
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AwesomeTurtwig posted...

In the class or work? In the class I don't remember. At work I develop a high fidelity radar model which communicates with other elements of a combat system. Very tough to explain.

one thing you said that I didn't understand is that you said that "I am a software/systems engineer" but that you only had 1 "coding" class? I thought you were an electrical engineer, and then it'd maybe have made sense to have only 1 programming class. reading about systems engineering, that sounds like maybe what you're talking about. do you have a bachelors or a masters? is the bulk of the degree just modeling if you aren't doing any programming? or is it a mix of electrical and software, and maybe some others? it sounds like it might be a large mix of engineering fields, which is pretty cool.
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Sahuagin posted...

AwesomeTurtwig posted...

In the class or work? In the class I don't remember. At work I develop a high fidelity radar model which communicates with other elements of a combat system. Very tough to explain.

one thing you said that I didn't understand is that you said that "I am a software/systems engineer" but that you only had 1 "coding" class? I thought you were an electrical engineer, and then it'd maybe have made sense to have only 1 programming class. reading about systems engineering, that sounds like maybe what you're talking about. do you have a bachelors or a masters? is the bulk of the degree just modeling if you aren't doing any programming? or is it a mix of electrical and software, and maybe some others? it sounds like it might be a large mix of engineering fields, which is pretty cool.

Well I've been programming since high school, started with an unknown language of Action Script 2.0. I double majored in Electrical Engineering and Physics, no focus on coding. In my internships I told them I could code, so typically wrote in Visual Basic. Then I started working at my current job after school. I started off in radar test and evaluation. Then they pulled people who had programming experience to the modelling group. And now I model in C++, Ada, and other languages.
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