Current Events > 1 day after Israel declared independence, 5 Arab armies marched to attack it

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darkphoenix181 12/13/17 4:33:08 PM #1:	An interesting little tidbit of history. I heard it on NPR and decided to check it out. Interestingly enough, Israel kinda whooped butt in this war which allowed them to take more territory than the U.N. was going to give them in the first place. The 5 army line was uttered on the radio and I am going to trust it despite it looking like 4 countries below. Maybe someone can explain. The 5th is probably Palestine itself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Declaration_of_Independence The declaration was signed in a context of civil war between the Arab and Jewish populations of the Mandate that had started the day after the partition vote at the UN six months earlier. Neighbouring Arab states and the Arab League were opposed to the vote and had declared they would intervene to prevent its implementation. In a cablegram on 15 May 1948 to the Secretary-General of the United Nations, the Secretary-General of the League of Arab States claimed that "the Arab states find themselves compelled to intervene in order to restore law and order and to check further bloodshed".[20] Over the next few days after the declaration, armies of Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Iraq, and Syria engaged Israeli troops inside the area of what had just ceased to be Mandatory Palestine, thereby starting the 1948 ArabIsraeli War. A truce began on 11 June, but fighting resumed on 8 July and stopped again on 18 July, before restarting in mid-October and finally ending on 24 July 1949 with the signing of the armistice agreement with Syria. By then Israel had retained its independence and increased its land area by almost 50% compared to the 1947 UN Partition Plan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War On 15 May 1948 the ongoing civil war transformed into an inter-state conflict between Israel and the Arab states, following the Israeli Declaration of Independence the previous day. A combined invasion by Egypt, Jordan and Syria, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq, entered Palestine Jordan having declared privately to Yishuv emissaries on 2 May it would abide by a decision not to attack the Jewish state.[13] The invading forces took control of the Arab areas and immediately attacked Israeli forces and several Jewish settlements.[14][15][16] The 10 months of fighting, interrupted by several truce periods, took place mostly on the former territory of the British Mandate and for a short time also in the Sinai Peninsula and southern Lebanon.[17] As a result of the war the State of Israel controlled both the area that the UN General Assembly Resolution 181 had recommended for the proposed Jewish state as well as almost 60% of the area of Arab state proposed by the 1948 Partition Plan,[18] including the Jaffa, Lydda and Ramle area, Galilee, some parts of the Negev, a wide strip along the Tel-Aviv-Jerusalem road, West Jerusalem, and some territories in the West Bank. Transjordan took control of the remainder of the former British mandate, which it annexed, and the Egyptian military took control of the Gaza Strip. At the Jericho Conference on 1 December 1948, 2,000 Palestinian delegates called for unification of Palestine and Transjordan as a step toward full Arab unity."[19] No state was created for the Palestinian Arabs. The conflict triggered significant demographic change throughout the Middle East. Around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs fled or were expelled from their homes in the area that became Israel and they became Palestinian refugees[20] in what they refer to as Al-Nakba ("the catastrophe"). In the three years following the war, about 700,000 Jews immigrated to Israel with many of them having been expelled from their previous countries of residence in the Middle East.[21] --- chill02 to me: you are beautiful <cite>darkphoenix181 posted [p:892157970] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote>An interesting little tidbit of history. I heard it on NPR and decided to check it out. Interestingly enough, Israel kinda whooped butt in this war which allowed them to take more territory than the U.N. was going to give them in the first place. The 5 army line was uttered on the radio and I am going to trust it despite it looking like 4 countries below. Maybe someone can explain. The 5th is probably Palestine itself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Declaration_of_Independence <quote>The declaration was signed in a context of civil war between the Arab and Jewish populations of the Mandate that had started the day after the partition vote at the UN six months earlier. Neighbouring Arab states and the Arab League were opposed to the vote and had declared they would intervene to prevent its implementation. In a cablegram on 15 May 1948 to the Secretary-General of the United Nations, the Secretary-General of the League of Arab States claimed that "the Arab states find themselves compelled to intervene in order to restore law and order and to check further bloodshed".[20] Over the next few days after the declaration, armies of Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Iraq, and Syria engaged Israeli troops inside the area of what had just ceased to be Mandatory Palestine, thereby starting the 1948 ArabIsraeli War. A truce began on 11 June, but fighting resumed on 8 July and stopped again on 18 July, before restarting in mid-October and finally ending on 24 July 1949 with the signing of the armistice agreement with Syria. By then Israel had retained its independence and increased its land area by almost 50% compared to the 1947 UN Partition Plan.</quote> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War <quote> On 15 May 1948 the ongoing civil war transformed into an inter-state conflict between Israel and the Arab states, following the Israeli Declaration of Independence the previous day. A combined invasion by Egypt, Jordan and Syria, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq, entered Palestine Jordan having declared privately to Yishuv emissaries on 2 May it would abide by a decision not to attack the Jewish state.[13] The invading forces took control of the Arab areas and immediately attacked Israeli forces and several Jewish settlements.[14][15][16] The 10 months of fighting, interrupted by several truce periods, took place mostly on the former territory of the British Mandate and for a short time also in the Sinai Peninsula and southern Lebanon.[17] As a result of the war the State of Israel controlled both the area that the UN General Assembly Resolution 181 had recommended for the proposed Jewish state as well as almost 60% of the area of Arab state proposed by the 1948 Partition Plan,[18] including the Jaffa, Lydda and Ramle area, Galilee, some parts of the Negev, a wide strip along the Tel-Aviv-Jerusalem road, West Jerusalem, and some territories in the West Bank. Transjordan took control of the remainder of the former British mandate, which it annexed, and the Egyptian military took control of the Gaza Strip. At the Jericho Conference on 1 December 1948, 2,000 Palestinian delegates called for unification of Palestine and Transjordan as a step toward full Arab unity."[19] No state was created for the Palestinian Arabs. The conflict triggered significant demographic change throughout the Middle East. Around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs fled or were expelled from their homes in the area that became Israel and they became Palestinian refugees[20] in what they refer to as Al-Nakba ("the catastrophe"). In the three years following the war, about 700,000 Jews immigrated to Israel with many of them having been expelled from their previous countries of residence in the Middle East.[21]</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CarlGrimes 12/13/17 4:34:35 PM #2:	Huh --- You'll get a funeral if you don't wise up and call me....Carl Poppa. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9aM9Ch97U8 <cite>CarlGrimes posted [p:892158051] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote>Huh</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paper_Okami 12/13/17 4:41:50 PM #3:	You realize the british government took land that people had been living on for thousands of years to make Israel, right? --- "Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism"- Emma Goldman "Wimmy Wham Wham Wozzle!" -Slurms MacKenzie <cite>Paper_Okami posted [p:892158481] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote>You realize the british government took land that people had been living on for thousands of years to make Israel, right?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkphoenix181 12/13/17 4:42:16 PM #4:	CarlGrimes posted... Huh if this attack didn't occur, I wonder if this line would still have rung true: The conflict triggered significant demographic change throughout the Middle East. Around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs fled or were expelled from their homes in the area that became Israel and they became Palestinian refugees[20] in what they refer to as Al-Nakba ("the catastrophe"). In the three years following the war, about 700,000 Jews immigrated to Israel with many of them having been expelled from their previous countries of residence in the Middle East.[21] being a refugee isn't good, but at the same time, if your country attacks another and loses, that is kinda what happens... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_eastern_territories_of_Germany --- chill02 to me: you are beautiful <cite>darkphoenix181 posted [p:892158507] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>CarlGrimes posted...</cite> <quote>Huh</quote> if this attack didn't occur, I wonder if this line would still have rung true: <quote>The conflict triggered significant demographic change throughout the Middle East. Around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs fled or were expelled from their homes in the area that became Israel and they became Palestinian refugees[20] in what they refer to as Al-Nakba ("the catastrophe"). In the three years following the war, about 700,000 Jews immigrated to Israel with many of them having been expelled from their previous countries of residence in the Middle East.[21]</quote> being a refugee isn't good, but at the same time, if your country attacks another and loses, that is kinda what happens... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_eastern_territories_of_Germany</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 12/13/17 4:42:38 PM #5:	Paper_Okami posted... You realize the british government took land that people had been living on for thousands of years to make Israel, right? are you an averagejoel alt? --- but Marxist theory is extremely consistent, both internally and with reality. -averagejeol <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:892158532] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>Paper_Okami posted...</cite> <quote>You realize the british government took land that people had been living on for thousands of years to make Israel, right?</quote> are you an averagejoel alt?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 12/13/17 4:44:02 PM #6:	People tend to omit that Israel took their land in a defensive war against an attempted genocide by a unified muslim force when they talk about the Israel/Palestine conflict. It's almost as if they want really badly for the surrounding countries to look like victims and not gross-aggressors. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:892158614] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote>People tend to omit that Israel took their land in a defensive war against an attempted genocide by a unified muslim force when they talk about the Israel/Palestine conflict. It's almost as if they want really badly for the surrounding countries to look like victims and not gross-aggressors.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CarlGrimes 12/13/17 4:45:10 PM #7:	darkphoenix181 posted... CarlGrimes posted... Huh if this attack didn't occur, I wonder if this line would still have rung true: The conflict triggered significant demographic change throughout the Middle East. Around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs fled or were expelled from their homes in the area that became Israel and they became Palestinian refugees[20] in what they refer to as Al-Nakba ("the catastrophe"). In the three years following the war, about 700,000 Jews immigrated to Israel with many of them having been expelled from their previous countries of residence in the Middle East.[21] being a refugee isn't good, but at the same time, if your country attacks another and loses, that is kinda what happens... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_eastern_territories_of_Germany No, I was saying huh because when I first clicked the topic there wasn't a first post. --- You'll get a funeral if you don't wise up and call me....Carl Poppa. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9aM9Ch97U8 <cite>CarlGrimes posted [p:892158680] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>CarlGrimes posted...</cite> <quote>Huh</quote> if this attack didn't occur, I wonder if this line would still have rung true: <quote>The conflict triggered significant demographic change throughout the Middle East. Around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs fled or were expelled from their homes in the area that became Israel and they became Palestinian refugees[20] in what they refer to as Al-Nakba ("the catastrophe"). In the three years following the war, about 700,000 Jews immigrated to Israel with many of them having been expelled from their previous countries of residence in the Middle East.[21]</quote> being a refugee isn't good, but at the same time, if your country attacks another and loses, that is kinda what happens... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_eastern_territories_of_Germany</quote> No, I was saying huh because when I first clicked the topic there wasn't a first post.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Will446 12/13/17 4:45:18 PM #8:	Israel is owned by the choose race not goys. <cite>Will446 posted [p:892158685] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote>Israel is owned by the choose race not goys.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 12/13/17 4:45:29 PM #9:	s0nicfan posted... People tend to omit that Israel took their land in a defensive war against an attempted genocide by a unified muslim force when they talk about the Israel/Palestine conflict. It's almost as if they want really badly for the surrounding countries to look like victims and not gross-aggressors. That's exactly right. These clowns are secretly anti-semitic, and they'll just brush it off by claiming some bullshit cop-out about how being anti-Israel is not being anti-Jew. And yet if you're against Palestine you're somehow anti-Muslim / anti-brown people lmfao --- but Marxist theory is extremely consistent, both internally and with reality. -averagejeol <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:892158699] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>People tend to omit that Israel took their land in a defensive war against an attempted genocide by a unified muslim force when they talk about the Israel/Palestine conflict. It's almost as if they want really badly for the surrounding countries to look like victims and not gross-aggressors.</quote> That's exactly right. These clowns are secretly anti-semitic, and they'll just brush it off by claiming some bullshit cop-out about how being anti-Israel is not being anti-Jew. And yet if you're against Palestine you're somehow anti-Muslim / anti-brown people lmfao</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paper_Okami 12/13/17 4:46:40 PM #10:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Paper_Okami posted... You realize the british government took land that people had been living on for thousands of years to make Israel, right? are you an averagejoel alt? Shut the Fuck up Proudclad This is a widely known fact. --- "Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism"- Emma Goldman "Wimmy Wham Wham Wozzle!" -Slurms MacKenzie <cite>Paper_Okami posted [p:892158760] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Paper_Okami posted...</cite> <quote>You realize the british government took land that people had been living on for thousands of years to make Israel, right?</quote> are you an averagejoel alt?</quote> Shut the Fuck up Proudclad This is a widely known fact.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkphoenix181 12/13/17 4:47:31 PM #11:	Paper_Okami posted... You realize the british government took land that people had been living on for thousands of years to make Israel, right? You mean the Ottoman Empire lost their land to the British Empire who then gave it to the Jews from an agreement of the league of nations? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel#British_Mandate_of_Palestine_(1920%E2%80%931948) During World War I, most Jews supported the Germans because they were fighting the Russians who were regarded as the Jews' main enemy.[75] In Britain, the government sought Jewish support for the war effort for a variety of reasons including an erroneous antisemitic perception of "Jewish power" over the Ottoman Empire's Young Turks movement,[76] and a desire to secure American Jewish support for US intervention on Britain's behalf. There was already sympathy for the aims of Zionism in the British government, including the Prime Minister Lloyd George.[77] In late 1917, the British Army drove the Turks out of Southern Syria,[78] and the British foreign minister, Lord Balfour, sent a public letter to Lord Rothschild, a leading member of his party and leader of the Jewish community. The letter subsequently became known as the Balfour Declaration of 1917. It stated that the British Government "view[ed] with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people". The declaration provided the British government with a pretext for claiming and governing the country.[79] New Middle Eastern boundaries were decided by an agreement between British and French bureaucrats. The agreement gave Britain control over what parties would begin to call "Palestine". A Jewish Legion composed largely of Zionist volunteers organized by Jabotinsky and Trumpeldor participated in the British invasion. It also participated in the failed Gallipoli Campaign. A Zionist spy network provided the British with details of Ottoman troops. --- chill02 to me: you are beautiful <cite>darkphoenix181 posted [p:892158795] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>Paper_Okami posted...</cite> <quote>You realize the british government took land that people had been living on for thousands of years to make Israel, right?</quote> You mean the Ottoman Empire lost their land to the British Empire who then gave it to the Jews from an agreement of the league of nations? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel#British_Mandate_of_Palestine_(1920%E2%80%931948) <quote>During World War I, most Jews supported the Germans because they were fighting the Russians who were regarded as the Jews' main enemy.[75] In Britain, the government sought Jewish support for the war effort for a variety of reasons including an erroneous antisemitic perception of "Jewish power" over the Ottoman Empire's Young Turks movement,[76] and a desire to secure American Jewish support for US intervention on Britain's behalf. There was already sympathy for the aims of Zionism in the British government, including the Prime Minister Lloyd George.[77] In late 1917, the British Army drove the Turks out of Southern Syria,[78] and the British foreign minister, Lord Balfour, sent a public letter to Lord Rothschild, a leading member of his party and leader of the Jewish community. The letter subsequently became known as the Balfour Declaration of 1917. It stated that the British Government "view[ed] with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people". The declaration provided the British government with a pretext for claiming and governing the country.[79] New Middle Eastern boundaries were decided by an agreement between British and French bureaucrats. The agreement gave Britain control over what parties would begin to call "Palestine". A Jewish Legion composed largely of Zionist volunteers organized by Jabotinsky and Trumpeldor participated in the British invasion. It also participated in the failed Gallipoli Campaign. A Zionist spy network provided the British with details of Ottoman troops.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/13/17 4:48:57 PM #12:	darkphoenix181 posted... You mean the Ottoman Empire lost their land to the British Empire who then gave it to the Jews from an agreement of the league of nations? do you think this contradicts what he said? --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892158870] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>You mean the Ottoman Empire lost their land to the British Empire who then gave it to the Jews from an agreement of the league of nations? </quote> do you think this contradicts what he said?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheCyborgNinja 12/13/17 4:49:33 PM #13:	Paper_Okami posted... You realize the british government took land that people had been living on for thousands of years to make Israel, right? This. Its not that everybody hated the Jews, in most cases the place was harmonious. It was the combination of promises being broken by the British and radical sabre-rattling (supported by the Nazis) during and after WWII. --- "message parlor" ? do you mean the post office ? - SlayerX888 <cite>TheCyborgNinja posted [p:892158902] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>Paper_Okami posted...</cite> <quote>You realize the british government took land that people had been living on for thousands of years to make Israel, right?</quote> This. Its not that everybody hated the Jews, in most cases the place was harmonious. It was the combination of promises being broken by the British and radical sabre-rattling (supported by the Nazis) during and after WWII.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 12/13/17 4:53:34 PM #14:	Paper_Okami posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... Paper_Okami posted... You realize the british government took land that people had been living on for thousands of years to make Israel, right? are you an averagejoel alt? Shut the Fuck up Proudclad This is a widely known fact. That you're an averagejoel alt or the claim that the British government stole the land people had been living on for thousands of years in order to make Israel? --- but Marxist theory is extremely consistent, both internally and with reality. -averagejeol <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:892159130] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>Paper_Okami posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Paper_Okami posted...</cite> <quote>You realize the british government took land that people had been living on for thousands of years to make Israel, right?</quote> are you an averagejoel alt?</quote> Shut the Fuck up Proudclad This is a widely known fact.</quote> That you're an averagejoel alt or the claim that the British government stole the land people had been living on for thousands of years in order to make Israel?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paper_Okami 12/13/17 4:56:55 PM #15:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Paper_Okami posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... Paper_Okami posted... You realize the british government took land that people had been living on for thousands of years to make Israel, right? are you an averagejoel alt? Shut the Fuck up Proudclad This is a widely known fact. That you're an averagejoel alt or the claim that the British government stole the land people had been living on for thousands of years in order to make Israel? This is widely known that the British Government took it to create Israel. And i've been here a lot longer than Average Joel and you know that, go back to pretending to be evangelical you absolute joke of a person. --- "Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism"- Emma Goldman "Wimmy Wham Wham Wozzle!" -Slurms MacKenzie <cite>Paper_Okami posted [p:892159334] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Paper_Okami posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Paper_Okami posted...</cite> <quote>You realize the british government took land that people had been living on for thousands of years to make Israel, right?</quote> are you an averagejoel alt?</quote> Shut the Fuck up Proudclad This is a widely known fact.</quote> That you're an averagejoel alt or the claim that the British government stole the land people had been living on for thousands of years in order to make Israel?</quote> This is widely known that the British Government took it to create Israel. And i've been here a lot longer than Average Joel and you know that, go back to pretending to be evangelical you absolute joke of a person.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 12/13/17 4:58:12 PM #16:	You are way too upset LMAO. Literally calling someone else a joke even though you literally believe that the British government stole the land people had been living on for thousands of years in order to make Israel. Why are you so ass-blasted right now? @Paper_Okami --- but Marxist theory is extremely consistent, both internally and with reality. -averagejeol <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:892159409] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote>You are way too upset LMAO. Literally calling someone else a joke even though you literally believe that the British government stole the land people had been living on for thousands of years in order to make Israel. Why are you so ass-blasted right now? @Paper_Okami</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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darkphoenix181 12/13/17 4:59:06 PM #18:	Balrog0 posted... do you think this contradicts what he said? TheCyborgNinja posted... This. Its not that everybody hated the Jews, in most cases the place was harmonious. It was the combination of promises being broken by the British and radical sabre-rattling (supported by the Nazis) during and after WWII. Are you both talking about this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus The 1948 Palestinian exodus, also known as the Nakba (Arabic: , al-Nakbah, literally "disaster", "catastrophe", or "cataclysm"),[1] occurred when more than 700,000 Palestinian Arabs fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1948 Palestine war.[2] Between 400 and 600 Palestinian villages were sacked during the war, while urban Palestine was almost entirely extinguished.[3] The term "nakba" also refers to the period of war itself and events affecting Palestinians from December 1947 to January 1949. This was because of the armies marching to attack Israel, not because the British kicked them out. also what do you make of this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine#Jewish_Yishuv The conquest of the Ottoman Syria by the British forces in 1917, found a mixed community in the region, with Palestine, the southern part of the Ottoman Syria, containing a mixed population of Muslims, Christians, Jews and Druze. In this period, the Jewish community (Yishuv) in Palestine was composed of traditional Jewish communities in cities (the Old Yishuv), which had existed for centuries,[96] and the newly established agricultural Zionist communities (the New Yishuv), established since the 1870s. With the establishment of the Mandate, the Jewish community in Palestine formed the Zionist Commission to represent its interests. then we have those who did immigrate: Initially, Jewish immigration to Palestine met little opposition from the Palestinian Arabs. However, as anti-Semitism grew in Europe during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, Jewish immigration (mostly from Europe) to Palestine began to increase markedly. Combined with the growth of Arab nationalism in the region and increasing anti-Jewish sentiments the growth of Jewish population created much Arab resentment. The British government placed limitations on Jewish immigration to Palestine. These quotas were controversial, particularly in the latter years of British rule, and both Arabs and Jews disliked the policy, each for their own reasons. I am still reading it but so far I don't see Arabs kicked off their land UNTIL those 5 armies attacked and caused a war. Give me a link to point me in the right direction so I can find this information faster if you disagree. --- chill02 to me: you are beautiful <cite>darkphoenix181 posted [p:892159456] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>do you think this contradicts what he said?</quote> <cite>TheCyborgNinja posted...</cite> <quote> This. Its not that everybody hated the Jews, in most cases the place was harmonious. It was the combination of promises being broken by the British and radical sabre-rattling (supported by the Nazis) during and after WWII.</quote> Are you both talking about this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus <quote>The 1948 Palestinian exodus, also known as the Nakba (Arabic: , al-Nakbah, literally "disaster", "catastrophe", or "cataclysm"),[1] occurred when more than 700,000 Palestinian Arabs fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1948 Palestine war.[2] Between 400 and 600 Palestinian villages were sacked during the war, while urban Palestine was almost entirely extinguished.[3] The term "nakba" also refers to the period of war itself and events affecting Palestinians from December 1947 to January 1949.</quote> This was because of the armies marching to attack Israel, not because the British kicked them out. also what do you make of this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine#Jewish_Yishuv <quote>The conquest of the Ottoman Syria by the British forces in 1917, found a mixed community in the region, with Palestine, the southern part of the Ottoman Syria, containing a mixed population of Muslims, Christians, Jews and Druze. In this period, the Jewish community (Yishuv) in Palestine was composed of traditional Jewish communities in cities (the Old Yishuv), which<cite> had existed for centuries,</cite>[96] and the newly established agricultural Zionist communities (the New Yishuv), established since the 1870s. With the establishment of the Mandate, the Jewish community in Palestine formed the Zionist Commission to represent its interests.</quote> then we have those who did immigrate: <quote>Initially, Jewish immigration to Palestine met little opposition from the Palestinian Arabs. However, as anti-Semitism grew in Europe during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, Jewish immigration (mostly from Europe) to Palestine began to increase markedly. Combined with the growth of Arab nationalism in the region and increasing anti-Jewish sentiments the growth of Jewish population created much Arab resentment. The British government placed limitations on Jewish immigration to Palestine. These quotas were controversial, particularly in the latter years of British rule, and both Arabs and Jews disliked the policy, each for their own reasons.</quote> I am still reading it but so far I don't see Arabs kicked off their land UNTIL those 5 armies attacked and caused a war. Give me a link to point me in the right direction so I can find this information faster if you disagree.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paper_Okami 12/13/17 4:59:06 PM #19:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Literally calling someone else a joke even though you literally believe that the British government stole the land people had been living on for thousands of years in order to make Israel. I mean you've been a joke forever, and i'm a 100% correct, not my fault you don't know your history. --- "Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism"- Emma Goldman "Wimmy Wham Wham Wozzle!" -Slurms MacKenzie <cite>Paper_Okami posted [p:892159457] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>Literally calling someone else a joke even though you literally believe that the British government stole the land people had been living on for thousands of years in order to make Israel.</quote> I mean you've been a joke forever, and i'm a 100% correct, not my fault you don't know your history.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
averagejoel 12/13/17 4:59:37 PM #20:	fyi Proudclad I make sure to Ignore you on all my alts so anyone who responds directly to you isn't me --- peanut butter and dick <cite>averagejoel posted [p:892159494] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote>fyi Proudclad I make sure to Ignore you on all my alts so anyone who responds directly to you isn't me</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/13/17 5:02:11 PM #21:	darkphoenix181 posted... Are you both talking about this? I'm not talking about any specific instance other than what you mentioned, which is that two nations clashed and then one gave territory to another in what way do you think that is a counter to the argument that the land was 'stolen' from people who lived there for a long time? darkphoenix181 posted... I am still reading it but so far I don't see Arabs kicked off their land UNTIL those 5 armies attacked and caused a war. he didn't say they were kicked out, either. he said that it was taken from them. this is true, as evidenced by the fact that foreign nations were making rules regarding their immigration quotas among other things I just don't understand what you're trying to drive home. --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892159638] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>Are you both talking about this?</quote> I'm not talking about any specific instance other than what you mentioned, which is that two nations clashed and then one gave territory to another in what way do you think that is a counter to the argument that the land was 'stolen' from people who lived there for a long time? <cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>I am still reading it but so far I don't see Arabs kicked off their land UNTIL those 5 armies attacked and caused a war.</quote> he didn't say they were kicked out, either. he said that it was taken from them. this is true, as evidenced by the fact that foreign nations were making rules regarding their immigration quotas among other things I just don't understand what you're trying to drive home.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 12/13/17 5:07:07 PM #22:	@Paper_Okami https://int.icej.org/susans-blog/did-jews-steal-palestinians%E2%80%99-land Sounds like the British did not in fact steal land in order to establish Israel --- but Marxist theory is extremely consistent, both internally and with reality. -averagejeol <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:892159918] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote>@Paper_Okami https://int.icej.org/susans-blog/did-jews-steal-palestinians%E2%80%99-land Sounds like the British did not in fact steal land in order to establish Israel</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkphoenix181 12/13/17 5:09:48 PM #23:	Balrog0 posted... I just don't understand what you're trying to drive home. Well for one, the above quote dispels the notions that the British just threw the Jews at the land and kicked out the Arabs. Instead it shows that Jews already lived there and many immigrated with the approval of those people who later got kicked out. Then it was the Jewish army who kicked them out of their land in response to an invasion force to defend themselves from being kicked out. But yeah...they went really overboard: urban Palestine was almost entirely extinguished. So, no, him saying "the British took the land and kicked out the residents" is fallacious according to these facts unless I am missing something. Rather, it is like if a southern USA city had tons of Latino immigrants coming and the people who were there before got upset about them taking control of the government, then the Latinos beat them in a war and kicked them off their land. The point being both had a right to be there, but one decided there isn't enough room for both of us, tried to kick the others out and instead lost and they got kicked out. --- chill02 to me: you are beautiful <cite>darkphoenix181 posted [p:892160055] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote> I just don't understand what you're trying to drive home.</quote> Well for one, the above quote dispels the notions that the British just threw the Jews at the land and kicked out the Arabs. Instead it shows that Jews already lived there and many immigrated with the approval of those people who later got kicked out. Then it was the Jewish army who kicked them out of their land in response to an invasion force to defend themselves from being kicked out. But yeah...they went really overboard: <quote>urban Palestine was almost entirely extinguished.</quote> So, no, him saying "the British took the land and kicked out the residents" is fallacious according to these facts unless I am missing something. Rather, it is like if a southern USA city had tons of Latino immigrants coming and the people who were there before got upset about them taking control of the government, then the Latinos beat them in a war and kicked them off their land. The point being both had a right to be there, but one decided there isn't enough room for both of us, tried to kick the others out and instead lost and they got kicked out.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/13/17 5:10:11 PM #24:	FLUFFYGERM posted... @Paper_Okami https://int.icej.org/susans-blog/did-jews-steal-palestinians%E2%80%99-land Sounds like the British did not in fact steal land in order to establish Israel lol, areas "vacated" by the ottoman empire wonder why they left! --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892160080] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>@Paper_Okami https://int.icej.org/susans-blog/did-jews-steal-palestinians%E2%80%99-land Sounds like the British did not in fact steal land in order to establish Israel</quote> lol, areas "vacated" by the ottoman empire wonder why they left!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paper_Okami 12/13/17 5:10:26 PM #25:	FLUFFYGERM posted... https://int.icej.org/susans-blog/did-jews-steal-palestinians%E2%80%99-land Sounds like the British did not in fact steal land in order to establish Israel That does nothing to prove my point wrong, people were already fucking living there. These states made deals, but what gave them the right? they certainly didn't talk to the people living there. --- "Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism"- Emma Goldman "Wimmy Wham Wham Wozzle!" -Slurms MacKenzie <cite>Paper_Okami posted [p:892160096] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote> https://int.icej.org/susans-blog/did-jews-steal-palestinians%E2%80%99-land Sounds like the British did not in fact steal land in order to establish Israel</quote> That does nothing to prove my point wrong, people were already fucking living there. These states made deals, but what gave them the right? they certainly didn't talk to the people living there.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/13/17 5:11:07 PM #26:	darkphoenix181 posted... Well for one, the above quote dispels the notions that the British just threw the Jews at the land and kicked out the Arabs. who said that they did that? if someone came to your house and took over the TV, but let you sit on the couch, would you be happy? darkphoenix181 posted... So, no, him saying "the British took the land and kicked out the residents" is fallacious according to these facts unless I am missing something. he didn't say that. refer to my above hypothetical. --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892160124] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>Well for one, the above quote dispels the notions that the British just threw the Jews at the land and kicked out the Arabs.</quote> who said that they did that? if someone came to your house and took over the TV, but let you sit on the couch, would you be happy? <cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>So, no, him saying "the British took the land and kicked out the residents" is fallacious according to these facts unless I am missing something.</quote> he didn't say that. refer to my above hypothetical.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/13/17 5:12:50 PM #27:	darkphoenix181 posted... The point being both had a right to be there, but one decided there isn't enough room for both of us, tried to kick the others out and instead lost and they got kicked out. so let's say I own alabama and I say, no more northerners then georgia and florida come in, because they are more tied to the economic mileu of the north, and beat me up they then say, no more southerners, including alabamans is it alabamans fault? --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892160212] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>The point being both had a right to be there, but one decided there isn't enough room for both of us, tried to kick the others out and instead lost and they got kicked out.</quote> so let's say I own alabama and I say, no more northerners then georgia and florida come in, because they are more tied to the economic mileu of the north, and beat me up they then say, no more southerners, including alabamans is it alabamans fault?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 12/13/17 5:14:11 PM #28:	Holy shit balrog the olympic level hoop jumping you're performing to justify the attempted genocide of the remaining jewish people is impressive. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:892160271] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote>Holy shit balrog the olympic level hoop jumping you're performing to justify the attempted genocide of the remaining jewish people is impressive.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkphoenix181 12/13/17 5:14:30 PM #29:	Balrog0 posted... who said that they did that? if someone came to your house and took over the TV, but let you sit on the couch, would you be happy? What makes it their house? Because of the previous rulers of the Ottoman Empire? So the Ottoman Empire conquers the previous rulers and that is ok, but when Britain does it, it is wrong? That is to ask you, why wasn't it Britain's house at the time? --- chill02 to me: you are beautiful <cite>darkphoenix181 posted [p:892160294] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>who said that they did that? if someone came to your house and took over the TV, but let you sit on the couch, would you be happy?</quote> What makes it their house? Because of the previous rulers of the Ottoman Empire? So the Ottoman Empire conquers the previous rulers and that is ok, but when Britain does it, it is wrong? That is to ask you, why wasn't it Britain's house at the time?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/13/17 5:14:33 PM #30:	s0nicfan posted... Holy shit balrog the olympic level hoop jumping you're performing to justify the attempted genocide of the remaining jewish people is impressive. please point out where I justify it lol --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892160297] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Holy shit balrog the olympic level hoop jumping you're performing to justify the attempted genocide of the remaining jewish people is impressive.</quote> please point out where I justify it lol</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 12/13/17 5:16:17 PM #31:	Balrog0 posted... s0nicfan posted... Holy shit balrog the olympic level hoop jumping you're performing to justify the attempted genocide of the remaining jewish people is impressive. please point out where I justify it lol Well, for one all your metaphors start with the presumed ownership of the land by non-jews which led to Jews "taking over the TV" or "splitting up Alabama", which in EVERY instance begins with the assumption that it isn't their land to own. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:892160405] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Holy shit balrog the olympic level hoop jumping you're performing to justify the attempted genocide of the remaining jewish people is impressive.</quote> please point out where I justify it lol</quote> Well, for one all your metaphors start with the presumed ownership of the land by non-jews which led to Jews "taking over the TV" or "splitting up Alabama", which in EVERY instance begins with the assumption that it isn't their land to own.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/13/17 5:16:30 PM #32:	darkphoenix181 posted... What makes it their house? Because of the previous rulers of the Ottoman Empire? So the Ottoman Empire conquers the previous rulers and that is ok, but when Britain does it, it is wrong? That is to ask you, why wasn't it Britain's house at the time? who said that it was ok when the ottomans did it? you guys are making way too many assumptions, please stop I am saying to you that there are obvious reasons that people are uncomfortable with the divine right of conquerors. people lived there under both ottomans and the british, and were not represented by either. is that really difficult to understand? --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892160418] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>What makes it their house? Because of the previous rulers of the Ottoman Empire? So the Ottoman Empire conquers the previous rulers and that is ok, but when Britain does it, it is wrong? That is to ask you, why wasn't it Britain's house at the time? </quote> who said that it was ok when the ottomans did it? you guys are making way too many assumptions, please stop I am saying to you that there are obvious reasons that people are uncomfortable with the divine right of conquerors. people lived there under both ottomans and the british, and were not represented by either. is that really difficult to understand?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 12/13/17 5:17:04 PM #33:	Paper_Okami posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... https://int.icej.org/susans-blog/did-jews-steal-palestinians%E2%80%99-land Sounds like the British did not in fact steal land in order to establish Israel That does nothing to prove my point wrong, people were already fucking living there. These states made deals, but what gave them the right? they certainly didn't talk to the people living there. you realize that jews have lived there for thousands of years right? --- but Marxist theory is extremely consistent, both internally and with reality. -averagejeol <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:892160459] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>Paper_Okami posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote> https://int.icej.org/susans-blog/did-jews-steal-palestinians%E2%80%99-land Sounds like the British did not in fact steal land in order to establish Israel</quote> That does nothing to prove my point wrong, people were already fucking living there. These states made deals, but what gave them the right? they certainly didn't talk to the people living there.</quote> you realize that jews have lived there for thousands of years right?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/13/17 5:17:54 PM #34:	s0nicfan posted... Well, for one all your metaphors start with the presumed ownership of the land by non-jews which led to Jews "crashing in their house" or "splitting up Alabama", which in EVERY instance begins with the assumption that it isn't their land to own. no they don't neither alabaman nor southerner nor 'hypothetical homeowner' connotes palestinean ownership I agree that arabs and jews lived together. That doesn't mean that britain (and other nations) didn't usurp their joint claim to the land. tehre was more than one native american tribe in america but we took their land, I dont get why thsi is a hard concept --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892160511] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Well, for one all your metaphors start with the presumed ownership of the land by non-jews which led to Jews "crashing in their house" or "splitting up Alabama", which in EVERY instance begins with the assumption that it isn't their land to own.</quote> no they don't neither alabaman nor southerner nor 'hypothetical homeowner' connotes palestinean ownership I agree that arabs and jews lived together. That doesn't mean that britain (and other nations) didn't usurp their joint claim to the land. tehre was more than one native american tribe in america but we took their land, I dont get why thsi is a hard concept</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkphoenix181 12/13/17 5:18:04 PM #35:	Balrog0 posted... darkphoenix181 posted... The point being both had a right to be there, but one decided there isn't enough room for both of us, tried to kick the others out and instead lost and they got kicked out. so let's say I own alabama and I say, no more northerners then georgia and florida come in, because they are more tied to the economic mileu of the north, and beat me up they then say, no more southerners, including alabamans is it alabamans fault? I do agree that it sounds like the Jews went overboard in their victory. However, they did win the war so the region should be Jewish Israel. Does that mean they should kick out all the Arabs? no Like I was musing above, had this war not happened, I wonder if maybe those 700,000 people would still be on their land today. --- chill02 to me: you are beautiful <cite>darkphoenix181 posted [p:892160526] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>The point being both had a right to be there, but one decided there isn't enough room for both of us, tried to kick the others out and instead lost and they got kicked out.</quote> so let's say I own alabama and I say, no more northerners then georgia and florida come in, because they are more tied to the economic mileu of the north, and beat me up they then say, no more southerners, including alabamans is it alabamans fault?</quote> I do agree that it sounds like the Jews went overboard in their victory. However, they did win the war so the region should be Jewish Israel. Does that mean they should kick out all the Arabs? no Like I was musing above, had this war not happened, I wonder if maybe those 700,000 people would still be on their land today.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paper_Okami 12/13/17 5:18:59 PM #36:	Also proposal were had for a jewish state in Argentina, where you know everybody in the area didn't hate them, they decided to settle where they did instead. It is what is, Israel is where it is and we need a two state compromise. Einstein himself jewish opposed a jewish state. https://dissidentvoice.org/2010/01/einstein-on-palestine-and-zionism/ --- "Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism"- Emma Goldman "Wimmy Wham Wham Wozzle!" -Slurms MacKenzie <cite>Paper_Okami posted [p:892160591] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote>Also proposal were had for a jewish state in Argentina, where you know everybody in the area didn't hate them, they decided to settle where they did instead. It is what is, Israel is where it is and we need a two state compromise. Einstein himself jewish opposed a jewish state. https://dissidentvoice.org/2010/01/einstein-on-palestine-and-zionism/</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 12/13/17 5:19:03 PM #37:	Balrog0 posted... s0nicfan posted... Well, for one all your metaphors start with the presumed ownership of the land by non-jews which led to Jews "crashing in their house" or "splitting up Alabama", which in EVERY instance begins with the assumption that it isn't their land to own. no they don't neither alabaman nor southerner nor 'hypothetical homeowner' connotes palestinean ownership I agree that arabs and jews lived together. That doesn't mean that britain (and other nations) didn't usurp their joint claim to the land. tehre was more than one native american tribe in america but we took their land, I dont get why thsi is a hard concept Fine, then maybe we're getting too deep into assumtpions. Let's start with this: Do you believe that Israel has a right to exist? Do you condemn the attempted genocide of the jewish people in the 6 day war? Do you believe any land the Israelis had taken as part of this defense is theirs to keep? --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:892160597] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Well, for one all your metaphors start with the presumed ownership of the land by non-jews which led to Jews "crashing in their house" or "splitting up Alabama", which in EVERY instance begins with the assumption that it isn't their land to own.</quote> no they don't neither alabaman nor southerner nor 'hypothetical homeowner' connotes palestinean ownership I agree that arabs and jews lived together. That doesn't mean that britain (and other nations) didn't usurp their joint claim to the land. tehre was more than one native american tribe in america but we took their land, I dont get why thsi is a hard concept</quote> Fine, then maybe we're getting too deep into assumtpions. Let's start with this: Do you believe that Israel has a right to exist? Do you condemn the attempted genocide of the jewish people in the 6 day war? Do you believe any land the Israelis had taken as part of this defense is theirs to keep?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 12/13/17 5:19:56 PM #38:	Paper_Okami posted... Also proposal were had for a jewish state in Argentina, where you know everybody in the area didn't hate them, they decided to settle where they did instead. It is what is, Israel is where it is and we need a two state compromise. Einstein himself jewish opposed a jewish state. https://dissidentvoice.org/2010/01/einstein-on-palestine-and-zionism/ why should they leave the area they've inhabited for thousands of years just because the muslim countries around them want to destroy them? maybe those other people should abandon their anti semitism instead --- but Marxist theory is extremely consistent, both internally and with reality. -averagejeol <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:892160649] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>Paper_Okami posted...</cite> <quote>Also proposal were had for a jewish state in Argentina, where you know everybody in the area didn't hate them, they decided to settle where they did instead. It is what is, Israel is where it is and we need a two state compromise. Einstein himself jewish opposed a jewish state. https://dissidentvoice.org/2010/01/einstein-on-palestine-and-zionism/</quote> why should they leave the area they've inhabited for thousands of years just because the muslim countries around them want to destroy them? maybe those other people should abandon their anti semitism instead</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NibeIungsnarf 12/13/17 5:19:57 PM #39:	FLUFFYGERM posted... you realize that jews have lived there for thousands of years right? Do you apply this logic in other situations? Is it okay for all Italian Americans to suddenly move to Italy and oust the population living here? Are all people in Mexico of Spaniard descent given automatic citizenship in Spain? Should they? <cite>NibeIungsnarf posted [p:892160652] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>you realize that jews have lived there for thousands of years right?</quote> Do you apply this logic in other situations? Is it okay for all Italian Americans to suddenly move to Italy and oust the population living here? Are all people in Mexico of Spaniard descent given automatic citizenship in Spain? Should they?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkphoenix181 12/13/17 5:20:37 PM #40:	s0nicfan posted... Do you believe any land the Israelis had taken as part of this defense is theirs to keep? I am not sure I absolutely agree with this one. How far did they march? I mean, a defensive is to defend what you have, not to take more right? --- chill02 to me: you are beautiful <cite>darkphoenix181 posted [p:892160694] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Do you believe any land the Israelis had taken as part of this defense is theirs to keep?</quote> I am not sure I absolutely agree with this one. How far did they march? I mean, a defensive is to defend what you have, not to take more right?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/13/17 5:20:54 PM #41:	s0nicfan posted... Do you believe that Israel has a right to exist? not really, at least not the modern day state of Israel* s0nicfan posted... Do you condemn the attempted genocide of the jewish people in the 6 day war? yes s0nicfan posted... Do you believe any land the Israelis had taken as part of this defense is theirs to keep? not really to bring us back to analogies, I also don't think 'we' have a just claim to the USA but I doubt that will change any time soon. I do not think might makes right. --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892160710] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Do you believe that Israel has a right to exist?</quote> not really, at least not the modern day state of Israel* <cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Do you condemn the attempted genocide of the jewish people in the 6 day war?</quote> yes <cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Do you believe any land the Israelis had taken as part of this defense is theirs to keep?</quote> not really to bring us back to analogies, I also don't think 'we' have a just claim to the USA but I doubt that will change any time soon. I do not think might makes right.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 12/13/17 5:22:08 PM #42:	Balrog0 posted... s0nicfan posted... Do you believe that Israel has a right to exist? not really, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpMXs58L5x4 --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:892160781] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Do you believe that Israel has a right to exist?</quote> not really, </quote> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpMXs58L5x4</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkphoenix181 12/13/17 5:22:38 PM #43:	NibeIungsnarf posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... you realize that jews have lived there for thousands of years right? Do you apply this logic in other situations? Is it okay for all Italian Americans to suddenly move to Italy and oust the population living here? Are all people in Mexico of Spaniard descent given automatic citizenship in Spain? Should they? A touchy issue since we see no reason against letting it happen in America. That is, minus the ousting part which according to wiki wasn't done in Israel either until they had to defend themselves from 5 armies. That is to say, if Italians from all over the world wanted to immigrate back into Italy, would it be wrong? If it is, then what do you think of people from Latin America coming into America for a better life? Is that wrong? --- chill02 to me: you are beautiful <cite>darkphoenix181 posted [p:892160812] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>NibeIungsnarf posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>you realize that jews have lived there for thousands of years right?</quote> Do you apply this logic in other situations? Is it okay for all Italian Americans to suddenly move to Italy and oust the population living here? Are all people in Mexico of Spaniard descent given automatic citizenship in Spain? Should they?</quote> A touchy issue since we see no reason against letting it happen in America. That is, minus the ousting part which according to wiki wasn't done in Israel either until they had to defend themselves from 5 armies. That is to say, if Italians from all over the world wanted to immigrate back into Italy, would it be wrong? If it is, then what do you think of people from Latin America coming into America for a better life? Is that wrong?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 12/13/17 5:22:46 PM #44:	darkphoenix181 posted... s0nicfan posted... Do you believe any land the Israelis had taken as part of this defense is theirs to keep? I am not sure I absolutely agree with this one. How far did they march? I mean, a defensive is to defend what you have, not to take more right? They took over the hills to the west where their cities were easy targets, and the remainder of a major city to secure its borders. It's not possible for them to have marched any less without giving up MASSIVE strategic positions. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:892160820] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Do you believe any land the Israelis had taken as part of this defense is theirs to keep?</quote> I am not sure I absolutely agree with this one. How far did they march? I mean, a defensive is to defend what you have, not to take more right?</quote> They took over the hills to the west where their cities were easy targets, and the remainder of a major city to secure its borders. It's not possible for them to have marched any less without giving up MASSIVE strategic positions.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkphoenix181 12/13/17 5:25:23 PM #45:	Balrog0 posted... not really, at least not the modern day state of Israel* Clarify what you mean lest Proudclad paint you as a Jew hater. You mean that Israel should allow Jews to live there but be ruled by the Arabs? It should not be ruled by either? In other words, what are the things you have against "modern Israel" ? --- chill02 to me: you are beautiful <cite>darkphoenix181 posted [p:892160999] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>not really, at least not the modern day state of Israel*</quote> Clarify what you mean lest Proudclad paint you as a Jew hater. You mean that Israel should allow Jews to live there but be ruled by the Arabs? It should not be ruled by either? In other words, what are the things you have against "modern Israel" ?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/13/17 5:28:49 PM #46:	darkphoenix181 posted... You mean that Israel should allow Jews to live there but be ruled by the Arabs? It should not be ruled by either? idk why do I need to know an alternative arrangement to know the current one isn't just? is that how things normally work? --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892161200] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>You mean that Israel should allow Jews to live there but be ruled by the Arabs? It should not be ruled by either? </quote> idk why do I need to know an alternative arrangement to know the current one isn't just? is that how things normally work?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/13/17 5:30:04 PM #47:	darkphoenix181 posted... In other words, what are the things you have against "modern Israel" ? the usurpation of local control by imperial armies your question is hard to answer because that area of the world has suffered from that an absurd number of times --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892161271] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>In other words, what are the things you have against "modern Israel" ?</quote> the usurpation of local control by imperial armies your question is hard to answer because that area of the world has suffered from that an absurd number of times</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PrettyBoyFloyd 12/13/17 5:30:33 PM #48:	Nothing is gained without taking it from someone else. That's just how life works. --- The Evil Republicans - Est.2004 - WoT [Government Destabilizing Branch] <cite>PrettyBoyFloyd posted [p:892161293] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote>Nothing is gained without taking it from someone else. That's just how life works.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NibeIungsnarf 12/13/17 5:37:46 PM #49:	darkphoenix181 posted... That is, minus the ousting part which according to wiki wasn't done in Israel either until they had to defend themselves from 5 armies. I mean... the reason there was a partition discussion in the first place is because due to zionist ideology suddenly hundreds of thousands of Jewish people rushed into the region which influenced the political sphere of the area negatively for the Palestinians. I call that outsting. darkphoenix181 posted... That is to say, if Italians from all over the world wanted to immigrate back into Italy, would it be wrong? I don't particularly care whether or not their desires are right or wrong as much as I care how 17 million people suddenly moving into Italy with different culture and desires for the country than the current population might negatively affect said current population. darkphoenix181 posted... If it is, then what do you think of people from Latin America coming into America for a better life? Is that wrong? Of course it's not wrong. It's not legal though. And while I see the parallels I didn't really post in this topic to have a long discussion about illegal immigration in the US. <cite>NibeIungsnarf posted [p:892161713] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>That is, minus the ousting part which according to wiki wasn't done in Israel either until they had to defend themselves from 5 armies.</quote> I mean... the reason there was a partition discussion in the first place is because due to zionist ideology suddenly hundreds of thousands of Jewish people rushed into the region which influenced the political sphere of the area negatively for the Palestinians. I call that outsting. <cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>That is to say, if Italians from all over the world wanted to immigrate back into Italy, would it be wrong?</quote> I don't particularly care whether or not their desires are right or wrong as much as I care how 17 million people suddenly moving into Italy with different culture and desires for the country than the current population might negatively affect said current population. <cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>If it is, then what do you think of people from Latin America coming into America for a better life? Is that wrong?</quote> Of course it's not wrong. It's not legal though. And while I see the parallels I didn't really post in this topic to have a long discussion about illegal immigration in the US.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkphoenix181 12/13/17 6:08:35 PM #50:	NibeIungsnarf posted... Of course it's not wrong. It's not legal though. And while I see the parallels I didn't really post in this topic to have a long discussion about illegal immigration in the US. but the point is: NibeIungsnarf posted... I care how 17 million people suddenly moving into Italy with different culture and desires for the country than the current population might negatively affect said current population. I mean, do you think illegal immigration to the US doesn't do this? As you said, it is not wrong. So I am just trying to understand why it is perhaps wrong for the Jews to have migrated to Israel shifting the culture and political structure vs. the same being done say from latin America to USA? Can one be wrong and the other right? And while some in USA think that is fine and good, there is a huge other side that partially voted a man into office because they think it is not right. Also, if you can understand the sentiment people in the US against this immigration have, you might could use that to convince them to dislike how it was in Israel. Alternatively, if you say that they need to get over it and just accept it, that illegal immigration will happen and change the demographics of their country, then maybe the same should be said to those in Palestine? That is minus the 700,000 person exodus. But ironically one who is against illegal immigration in US seems to side with Israel and those for it in the US seem to be against Israel. --- chill02 to me: you are beautiful <cite>darkphoenix181 posted [p:892163434] in 1 day afte... [t:76095538]...</cite> <quote><cite>NibeIungsnarf posted...</cite> <quote>Of course it's not wrong. It's not legal though. And while I see the parallels I didn't really post in this topic to have a long discussion about illegal immigration in the US.</quote> but the point is: <cite>NibeIungsnarf posted...</cite> <quote> I care how 17 million people suddenly moving into Italy with different culture and desires for the country than the current population might negatively affect said current population. </quote> I mean, do you think illegal immigration to the US doesn't do this? As you said, it is not wrong. So I am just trying to understand why it is perhaps wrong for the Jews to have migrated to Israel shifting the culture and political structure vs. the same being done say from latin America to USA? Can one be wrong and the other right? And while some in USA think that is fine and good, there is a huge other side that partially voted a man into office because they think it is not right. Also, if you can understand the sentiment people in the US against this immigration have, you might could use that to convince them to dislike how it was in Israel. Alternatively, if you say that they need to get over it and just accept it, that illegal immigration will happen and change the demographics of their country, then maybe the same should be said to those in Palestine? That is minus the 700,000 person exodus. But ironically one who is against illegal immigration in US seems to side with Israel and those for it in the US seem to be against Israel.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > 1 day after Israel declared independence, 5 Arab armies marched to attack it (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > 1 day after Israel declared independence, 5 Arab armies marched to attack it