Poll of the Day > Do you recognize the country of Catalonia?

(+) Yeah! (+)

>_>
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it sounds vaguely familiar but I have no clue why
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mooreandrew58 posted...

it sounds vaguely familiar but I have no clue why

Salad dressing?

They haven't officially declared independence yet and so it's not a separate country yet, so no. But I support their movement.
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KJ StErOiDs posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

it sounds vaguely familiar but I have no clue why

Salad dressing?

They haven't officially declared independence yet and so it's not a separate country yet, so no. But I support their movement.

I don't use salad dressings and thus pay no attention to them. if its not Italian, Ranch, Thousand Island I likely ain't aware it exists. wanna say there is a ceasar as well, but not sure i'f im thinking the salad itself
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No i never even heard of it

I support an official referendum. As it is, the results are biased because the people who wanted independence went to the polls whereas the ones who didn't want it were more likely to stay at home (by government order) and didn't vote at all.
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Yep. Soon there won't even be a Spain anymore, just Castille on the Iberian peninsula. Give it 10-20 years.

I dont understand why anyone wants to keep people that dont want to be there and are better off gone... oh, wait, its because they have money.
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42% voted and 90% was pro seperation. That's a pretty clear result. 42% is high considering how Spain took down a lot of voting places.
I've been in Barcelona and spoke with people. They really consider themselves a country.
Bull torturing is the national pride of Spain. In Catalonia it was outlawed, but Spain forced it on them.

No they are part of Hawaii and they know it
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miki_sauvester posted...

Yep. Soon there won't even be a Spain anymore, just Castille on the Iberian peninsula. Give it 10-20 years.

How did Portugal get Galicia? o-o

@miki_sauvester
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benbeverfaqs posted...

42% voted and 90% was pro seperation. That's a pretty clear result. 42% is high considering how Spain took down a lot of voting places.
I've been in Barcelona and spoke with people. They really consider themselves a country.
Bull torturing is the national pride of Spain. In Catalonia it was outlawed, but Spain forced it on them.

i'm anything but a vegan or peta advocate, but bull fighting does need to go. few times i've watched a bull fight I always root for the bull
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benbeverfaqs posted...

42% voted and 90% was pro seperation. That's a pretty clear result. 42% is high considering how Spain took down a lot of voting places.
I've been in Barcelona and spoke with people. They really consider themselves a country.
Bull torturing is the national pride of Spain. In Catalonia it was outlawed, but Spain forced it on them.

Spain needs to get over itself. Theyve been beholden to German welfare checks for too long and Catalonia doesnt need to be dependent on that anymore on their own. Catalonia rules.
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Honeydew is the money melon

Why did they want independence so badly?

benbeverfaqs posted...

42% voted and 90% was pro seperation. That's a pretty clear result.

That's not clear at all.
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WarGreymon77 posted...

Why did they want independence so badly?

Theyre basically a different entity. Its like Czechoslovakia, except if the Slovaks refused to let the Czechs separate... Sort of.
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Veedrock- posted...

benbeverfaqs posted...

42% voted and 90% was pro seperation. That's a pretty clear result.

That's not clear at all.

its as clear as you can expect. I can't speak for other countries but thats a decent turnout for any voting in america.
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They even have their own language, which is a plus in my book. Yes to independence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C805ka3C20k

TheCyborgNinja posted...

I dont understand why anyone wants to keep people that dont want to be there and are better off gone... oh, wait, its because they have money.

This.

TheCyborgNinja posted...

I dont understand why anyone wants to keep people that dont want to be there and are better off gone... oh, wait, its because they have money.

No, it's because they intend to take the land with them. Anybody would rather miserable buggers get off their land, not requisition their driveway.

Why do you think any country would be happy with a revolt?
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See also: Quebec independence movement.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

I dont understand why anyone wants to keep people that dont want to be there and are better off gone... oh, wait, its because they have money.

No, it's because they intend to take the land with them. Anybody would rather miserable buggers get off their land, not requisition their driveway.

Why do you think any country would be happy with a revolt?

They dont have to be. Spain is like a parent mooching off their successful child. They have a distinct culture and arent united people. Its pretty cut-and-dry whats right and whats assholery here. Some revolts are just.
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The 42% voted and 90% votes yes numbers are from the Catalan government. They haven't been independently confirmed.

Personally I hope this is resolved without another Spanish civil war, and I'd think that unity is better than Catalan independence. I also don't favor Iraqi Kurdistan becoming independent. I sided with the Imperials in Skyrim, too. I generally think learning to get along is better than breaking apart. That requires movement from both sides, which doesn't always work out.

mooreandrew58 posted...

Veedrock- posted...

benbeverfaqs posted...

42% voted and 90% was pro seperation. That's a pretty clear result.

That's not clear at all.

its as clear as you can expect. I can't speak for other countries but thats a decent turnout for any voting in america.

Donald Trump was elected with 46% of the vote on a 54.7% turnout (aka about 25% of eligible voters), so Catalonia actually got more support for independence than he did, if those numbers are accurate (the vote wasn't properly monitored, so the results are pretty much a crapshoot at this point).

Anyways, I think that a proper referendum should have been held. Spain's government fucked themselves hard on this - polls going into this suggested that remain would have lost the vote, at least until the central government decided to declare the vote illegal and institute a crackdown, which did nothing but push more people into the separatist camp.
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Veedrock- posted...

benbeverfaqs posted...

42% voted and 90% was pro seperation. That's a pretty clear result.

That's not clear at all.

It's very clear. 42% is very high considering voting was illegal and almost made impossible. 90% of 42% is 38%. 38% of people taking that effort, means it should be taken seriously.

If you want an example of unclear results, take the US election of Bush or Trump, who won with less votes than their opponents.
Or Brexit, where 70% of people voted on a complex matter and 51.9% voted leave.
Those are democratically unclear results.

SushiSquid posted...

Personally I hope this is resolved without another Spanish civil war, and I'd think that unity is better than Catalan independence. I also don't favor Iraqi Kurdistan becoming independent. I sided with the Imperials in Skyrim, too. I generally think learning to get along is better than breaking apart. That requires movement from both sides, which doesn't always work out.

Getting along is great, but it doesn't have to be in one country. Catalonia has it's own language and culture. I don't know if they're better off as a small country between France and Spain, but that's for them to decide. Have a referendum and if 60% or 67% or so wants to leave, then so be it.
Same for Scotland. I think they're fine in the UK, but if they want to leave (for instance to stay in the EU) they should be free to do so.
I'm definitely in favor of Kurdistan. The kurds are basically a country (language, religion, culture etc) with no land. It was arbitrarily divided between Syria, Iraq and Turkey a century ago. A lot of middle eastern country borders were just drawn onto a map. Leading to a century of war. Just give the Kurds the land in Syria and Iraq where they have a 67%+ majority. They already fought for it. And it might bring peace. (note, not turkish land and not the oil fields in syria they'r occupying at the moment)

WarGreymon77 posted...

Why did they want independence so badly?

To put it delicately, Spain's government hasn't always kind to the region. To put it less delicately, they *might* still be a bit peeved by the government's brutal oppression and attempts at genocide in the past. @WarGreymon77
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Veedrock- posted...

See also: Quebec independence movement.

The difference there is that Canada is extremely decentralized and that Quebec, much like every other province, has a ton of power to govern itself. Catalonia has very little power to govern itself.

Quebec would go to shit if it were to separate, leaving it as the only French speaking territory in the western hemisphere (aside from Haiti and French Guiana...but who the hell cares about those places). Canada accommodates the French language reasonably well, at least in the eastern half of the country. Given the tyranny we've seen towards Catalan people in Spain, Catalonia would likely be better off independent.

While we're at it, for fuck sake let the Kurds make their own country.
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WarGreymon77 posted...

Why did they want independence so badly?

Looking at the recent reaction from Spanish police, it's no wonder they want independence.
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Veedrock- posted...

benbeverfaqs posted...

42% voted and 90% was pro seperation. That's a pretty clear result.

That's not clear at all.

Donald Trump was elected with 46% of the vote on a 54.7% turnout (aka about 25% of eligible voters), so Catalonia actually got more support for independence than he did, if those numbers are accurate (the vote wasn't properly monitored, so the results are pretty much a crapshoot at this point).

Anyways, I think that a proper referendum should have been held. Spain's government fucked themselves hard on this - polls going into this suggested that remain would have won the vote, at least until the central government decided to declare the vote illegal and institute a crackdown, which did nothing but push more people into the separatist camp.

(had to delete/repost this, since I said the exact opposite of what I meant to in the original and noticed it too late to edit).

faramir77 posted...

The difference there is that Canada is extremely decentralized and that Quebec, much like every other province, has a ton of power to govern itself.

If you actually read their separation proposals, it's a big example of having their cake and eating it too. For instance, they want to keep most of the things they get from Canada (continued use of the dollar, open land borders/freedom of movement without passports... I think they even wanted continued equalization payments, though it's honestly been a while and I could be misremembering that) without any of the drawbacks. Basically exactly the sort of stuff Brexit promised and now looks to be utterly failing to deliver.

That said, the Quebec independence movement is pretty much dead now. Very few in the province care much about it anymore.
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darkknight109 posted...

Donald Trump was elected with 46% of the vote on a 54.7% turnout (aka about 25% of eligible voters), so Catalonia actually got more support for independence than he did, if those numbers are accurate (the vote wasn't properly monitored, so the results are pretty much a crapshoot at this point).

Anyways, I think that a proper referendum should have been held. Spain's government fucked themselves hard on this - polls going into this suggested that remain would have won the vote, at least until the central government decided to declare the vote illegal and institute a crackdown, which did nothing but push more people into the separatist camp.

(had to delete/repost this, since I said the exact opposite of what I meant to in the original and noticed it too late to edit).

The problem with that argument is that the 2016 US presidential turnout was almost certainly in-line with the general population's opinion. The reason why this poll's turnout sucked is partly because a substantial number of number of people opposed to the referendum didn't turn out at all; ie, the overall number isn't representative of the overall feelings so the fact that it's a smaller % of the population IS damning whereas the US's is arguably representative.
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Zeus posted...

The problem with that argument is that the 2016 US presidential turnout was almost certainly in-line with the general population's opinion. The reason why this poll's turnout sucked is partly because a substantial number of number of people opposed to the referendum didn't turn out at all; ie, the overall number isn't representative of the overall feelings so the fact that it's a smaller % of the population IS damning whereas the US's is arguably representative.

Except that's Spain's own damn fault for siccing the police on people trying to vote. Of course the people who wanted to leave Spain were more likely to show up under those circumstances.
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Golden Road posted...

Zeus posted...

The problem with that argument is that the 2016 US presidential turnout was almost certainly in-line with the general population's opinion. The reason why this poll's turnout sucked is partly because a substantial number of number of people opposed to the referendum didn't turn out at all; ie, the overall number isn't representative of the overall feelings so the fact that it's a smaller % of the population IS damning whereas the US's is arguably representative.

Except that's Spain's own damn fault for siccing the police on people trying to vote. Of course the people who wanted to leave Spain were more likely to show up under those circumstances.

Even before then, the fact that it was an illegitimate vote makes Spanish supporter turnout less likely.
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If Catalonia splinters off, there's little stopping other regions of Spain to do so. Spain might splinter like Yugoslavia did.

Portugal lucked out during medieval Europe.
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Given that the whole country is a mess, I wouldn't be surprised if dissolution was favored.
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