Poll of the Day > New Manafort e-mails offer stronger evidence of a quid pro quo with a Russian...

(+) Yeah! (+)

oligarch. 80/80 limit

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/emails-suggest-manafort-sought-approval-from-putin-ally-deripaska/541677/

http://www.businessinsider.com/manafort-emails-during-trump-campaign-about-russian-oleg-deripaska-2017-10

On the evening of April 11, 2016, two weeks after Donald Trump hired the political consultant Paul Manafort to lead his campaigns efforts to wrangle Republican delegates, Manafort emailed his old lieutenant Konstantin Kilimnik, who had worked for him for a decade in the Ukrainian capital, Kiev.

I assume you have shown our friends my media coverage, right? Manafort wrote.

Absolutely, Kilimnik responded a few hours later from Kiev. Every article.

How do we use to get whole, Manafort asks. Has OVD operation seen?

According to a source close to Manafort, the initials OVD refer to Oleg Vladimirovich Deripaska, a Russian oligarch and one of Russias richest men. The source also confirmed that one of the individuals repeatedly mentioned in the email exchange as an intermediary to Deripaska is an aide to the oligarch.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2G360HrSAs

Get out Icoyar, with your russian YouTube propaganda, ok?
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ClarkDuke posted...

Get our Icoyar, with your russian YouTube propaganda, ok?

Because, Van Jones admitting it, unknowingly on camera, is "Russian propaganda"?

Who cares about political commentators and what they said several months ago? This is more current, and what information is available now is quite different from late June.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Who cares about political commentators and what they said several months ago? This is more current, and what information is available now is quite different from late June.

Even Obama admitted that there was no proof of Russia tampering with the election. And he hates Trump with a passion.

yeah but what does Obummer know, he was an incompetent tyrant
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WhatPoll posted...

ClarkDuke posted...

Get our Icoyar, with your russian YouTube propaganda, ok?

Because, Van Jones admitting it, unknowingly on camera, is "Russian propaganda"?

I have no idea who that is, ok?
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ClarkDuke posted...

I have no idea who that is, ok?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Jones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi4OQnDYzxc

WhatPoll posted...

Even Obama admitted that there was no proof of Russia tampering with the election. And he hates Trump with a passion.

wait so do you support Obama now or

RCtheWSBC posted...

yeah but what does Obummer know, he was an incompetent tyrant

lol

"hacking" an election is one thing. The concern at this time is a party of people in power with undisclosed debt to other nations, using the political system for their own gains. there seem to be some unscrupulous uses of advertising to manipulate voters. there were attempts to prevent people from voting by providing false polling information and imposing difficult restrictions on certain voting demographics (see all the stuff about voter ID). No one is talking about changing votes at polling stations at all

another country's oligarchs having leverage is a bad thing
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Doctor Foxx posted...

wait so do you support Obama now or

Nope.

Doctor Foxx posted...

hacking an election is one thing. The concern at this time is a party of people in power with undisclosed debt to other nations, using the political system for their own gains

There is absolutely no proof or evidence, that Russia hacked the election. 4chan would have found it shortly after the election if it did.

The only thing that was hacked during the election was all 26,000 of John Podesta's emails, which was forwarded to Wikileaks by Seth Rich (a Bernie Sanders Supporter).

Oh, thought you were going to say, "with a Russian politician." At any rate, it's unclear what they're talking about and, broadly speaking, we've since learned that Russia was promoting *both* sides on Facebook which generally weakens the claims of Russian favoritism towards Trump.
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WhatPoll posted...

There is absolutely no proof or evidence, that Russia hacked the election. 4chan would have found it shortly after the election if it did.

lol the Senate Intelligence Committee is probing 4chan (and Reddit) as part of the Russia investigation. Plants and shills abound in those cesspools. They're not going to leak on their own platform
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Zeus posted...

Oh, thought you were going to say, "with a Russian politician." At any rate, it's unclear what they're talking about and, broadly speaking, we've since learned that Russia was promoting *both* sides on Facebook which generally weakens the claims of Russian favoritism towards Trump.

An Oligarch Manafort was deeply in debt to. Every oligarch is in bed with Putin. A little more of a troublesome link than a politician.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

and imposing difficult restrictions on certain voting demographics (see all the stuff about voter ID).

That is another lie. Take India for example. Over 500,000,000 people over there lives in absolute poverty. Voter ID is mandatory, and yet they all have one.

If you are implying that minorities can not or will not get an ID because of their "status", then you are being racist, and have no basis for your claims.

You need an ID to buy cigarettes, alcohol, go to school, get a job, drive a car, go to the movies, go on a plane, and do things on a daily basis, so your position that voter ID suppresses demographics does not stand at all, unless if you want to remove all forms of ID for "suppression" of daily activities.

WhatPoll posted...

ClarkDuke posted...

I have no idea who that is, ok?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Jones

I refuse to read your alt-right literature, ok?
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Doctor Foxx posted...

lol the Senate Intelligence Committee is probing 4chan (and Reddit) as part of the Russia investigation. Plants and shills abound in those cesspools. They're not going to leak on their own platform

Because, a bunch of anonymous trolls, consisting of absolutely anybody, are all Russian operatives?

WhatPoll posted...

That is another lie. Take India for example. Over 500,000,000 people over there lives in absolute poverty. Voter ID is mandatory, and yet they all have one.

it's almost like india is not the USA and both poverty and access these services is drastically different in the US
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Doctor Foxx posted...

The concern at this time is a party of people in power with undisclosed debt to other nations, using the political system for their own gains.

Meaning literally every time in history ever?

Doctor Foxx posted...

another country's oligarchs having leverage is a bad thing

Which is a generally silly claim considering that all rich people with influence in government have foreign interests. And keep in mind that George Soros has extensively bought political influence which was used to manipulate foreign policy yet I don't recall you ever bringing him up.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

it's almost like india is not the USA and both poverty and access these services is drastically different in the US

Even the poorest man living here in the USA, would seem like a wealthy man, compared to one living in absolute squalor in India.

Doctor Foxx posted...

Who cares about political commentators and what they said several months ago? This is more current, and what information is available now is quite different from late June.

You seriously don't think its an important detail that commentators for major news organizations that push the idea of this Russian scandal are on film behind the scenes saying it's bullshit and that it's all for ratings? Because that seems like a pretty big deal

WhatPoll posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

it's almost like india is not the USA and both poverty and access these services is drastically different in the US

Even the poorest man living here in the USA, would seem like a wealthy man, compared to one living in absolute squalor in India.

But there's no SSDI coverage in India, ok?
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WhatPoll posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

and imposing difficult restrictions on certain voting demographics (see all the stuff about voter ID).

That is another lie. Take India for example. Over 500,000,000 people over there lives in absolute poverty. Voter ID is mandatory, and yet they all have one.

If you are implying that minorities can not or will not get an ID because of their "status", then you are being racist, and have no basis for your claims.

You need an ID to buy cigarettes, alcohol, go to school, get a job, drive a car, go to the movies, go on a plane, and do things on a daily basis, so your position that voter ID suppresses demographics does not stand at all, unless if you want to remove all forms of ID for "suppression" of daily activities.

None of those things are constitutional rights though, really. So having an ID for those things you dont have to do(and things such as tobacco you arent being carded for if you look way over 18) doesnt matter.

Poll taxes are illegal, so requiring an ID to vote(which costs money), could be construed as a poll tax, regardless of all the things you can do, but arent required to do with one.

I dont even think ID laws are racist at all. They do disenfranchise poor people the most(of all races and backgrounds), and those people vote in larger number...democrat.

OhhhJa posted...

You seriously don't think its an important detail that commentators for major news organizations that push the idea of this Russian scandal are on film behind the scenes saying it's bullshit and that it's all for ratings? Because that seems like a pretty big deal

But they think that a man, with no history in politics, and known for running his big mouth off at every opportunity, becoming the most powerful person in world history, all while cameras are pointed at him at all times, is a liar, and covers up everything possible, despite the fact that something irrelevant he said 15 years ago in private, and completely forgot about, was somehow, the biggest scandal of all time?

Call me when someone is being put in handcuffs by the FBI. Until then, as far as I'm concerned, this is speculation. I'm tired of hearing about it.
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WhatPoll posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

it's almost like india is not the USA and both poverty and access these services is drastically different in the US

Even the poorest man living here in the USA, would seem like a wealthy man, compared to one living in absolute squalor in India.

What on earth is your point? India has an entirely different social and political system.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx

Voter ID laws like this have been ruled unconstitutional and discriminatory in the US. Unfortunately many states enacted laws prior to this past election, and the rulings have only come in after the fact.
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argonautweakend posted...

Poll taxes are illegal, so requiring an ID to vote(which costs money), could be construed as a poll tax, regardless of all the things you can do, but arent required to do with one.

ANY form of photo ID would suffice. If one absolutely cannot procure a photo ID for any possible reason whatsoever, then one could be made for free for them, provided that they have means to prove their identity and social security number.

Doctor Foxx posted...

Voter ID laws like this have been ruled unconstitutional and discriminatory in the US

Explain to me how Voter ID is discriminatory.

Doctor Foxx posted...

WhatPoll posted...

There is absolutely no proof or evidence, that Russia hacked the election. 4chan would have found it shortly after the election if it did.

lol the Senate Intelligence Committee is probing 4chan (and Reddit) as part of the Russia investigation. Plants and shills abound in those cesspools. They're not going to leak on their own platform

#Conspiracy #AttackingThePlatformsIDislikeAndWasLookingForAnExcuseToShutDown

Doctor Foxx posted...

Zeus posted...

Oh, thought you were going to say, "with a Russian politician." At any rate, it's unclear what they're talking about and, broadly speaking, we've since learned that Russia was promoting *both* sides on Facebook which generally weakens the claims of Russian favoritism towards Trump.

An Oligarch Manafort was deeply in debt to. Every oligarch is in bed with Putin. A little more of a troublesome link than a politician.

Few things:

1) An official with direct ties to the government is always more damning than somebody with indirect ties.

2) Manafort was a one-time campaign manager who was quickly dismissed. While you're talking about "the party in charge with deep ties to Russia!", you're referring guys with NO connection to the party in power. He holds no office, never held office, wasn't there for the whole campaign, and is currently on Trump's shit list -- which is impressive, because Trump sticks by a lot of people.
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argonautweakend posted...

None of those things are constitutional rights though, really. So having an ID for those things you dont have to do(and things such as tobacco you arent being carded for if you look way over 18) doesnt matter.

Poll taxes are illegal, so requiring an ID to vote(which costs money), could be construed as a poll tax, regardless of all the things you can do, but arent required to do with one.

I dont even think ID laws are racist at all. They do disenfranchise poor people the most(of all races and backgrounds), and those people vote in larger number...democrat.

This is correct and these policies have been struck down by courts for being unconstitutional.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965

http://www.history.com/topics/black-history/voting-rights-act

2016 was the first election after the Voting Rights Act was gutted in 2013. 17 states had new voting restriction policies implemented before the election, including key swing states like Wisconsin.
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Any form of photo ID? such as a college ID? That doesnt prove you are a citizen at all, if the aim is to prevent noncitizens from voting.

I wouldn't mind programs that would get people IDs for free, but what if they are a citizen but somehow cannot prove their identity and social security number? People do lose those documents for some reason or another, but they cost money to replace.

Zeus posted...

Trump sticks by a lot of people.

http://www.businessinsider.com/who-has-trump-fired-so-far-james-comey-sean-spicer-michael-flynn-2017-7

mmhmm
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Doctor Foxx posted...

This is correct and these policies have been struck down by courts for being unconstitutional.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965

http://www.history.com/topics/black-history/voting-rights-act

2016 was the first election after the Voting Rights Act was gutted in 2013. 17 states had new voting restriction policies implemented before the election, including key swing states like Wisconsin.

You fail to explain how Voter ID laws are discriminatory, unless if you are implying that blacks are unable to get IDs, in which case, you are making a racist argument.

WhatPoll posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

Voter ID laws like this have been ruled unconstitutional and discriminatory in the US

Explain to me how Voter ID is discriminatory.

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Nobody is saying black people are unable to get IDs by the very nature. You're trying too hard to do the whole racist argument. Voting ID laws also disenfranchise the elderly, because they sometimes let their IDs expire without realizing it.

argonautweakend posted...

Any form of photo ID? such as a college ID? That doesnt prove you are a citizen at all, if the aim is to prevent noncitizens from voting.

I wouldn't mind programs that would get people IDs for free, but what if they are a citizen but somehow cannot prove their identity and social security number? People do lose those documents for some reason or another, but they cost money to replace.

And there is NO requirement for identification verification if you vote by mail. But it is not an option for everybody. not everyone has a fixed address and not everyone was registered early enough to get those ballots.

There is no way to verify that the mailed in ballot was completed and sent in by the registered voter.
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argonautweakend posted...

Any form of photo ID? such as a college ID? That doesnt prove you are a citizen at all, if the aim is to prevent noncitizens from voting.

I wouldn't mind programs that would get people IDs for free, but what if they are a citizen but somehow cannot prove their identity and social security number? People do lose those documents for some reason or another, but they cost money to replace.

Other than keeping a DNA database (which could cause trouble as DNA is similar enough between 1 person out of 1000 or so on basic tests that are done, and is the exact same in the case of identical twins), there isn't much else that can be done at the moment to prove citizenship, and identity.

argonautweakend posted...

Poll taxes are illegal, so requiring an ID to vote(which costs money), could be construed as a poll tax, regardless of all the things you can do, but arent required to do with one.

Then remove the charge for public IDs and only charge on specialized IDs like driver's licenses. Problem solved. Granted, a public ID is usually $10 or less and you need an ID to do anything in society so the discouragement of identification is silly.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Zeus posted...

Trump sticks by a lot of people.

http://www.businessinsider.com/who-has-trump-fired-so-far-james-comey-sean-spicer-michael-flynn-2017-7

mmhmm

That's not exclusively a list of people he fired, it's a list of people who left. Half of those -- including the recent Tom Price -- are resignations. More generally, a guy like Comey was never "with" Trump in the first place, which is part of the reason why he got rid of him.
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argonautweakend posted...

Nobody is saying black people are unable to get IDs by the very nature. You're trying too hard to do the whole racist argument. Voting ID laws also disenfranchise the elderly, because they sometimes let their IDs expire without realizing it.

Look at this nonsense (which refutes your point that nobody claims that blacks are unable to get IDs):

http://tinyurl.com/hwbu58s

http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/15/maher-on-voter-id-black-people-dont-have-picture-id-since-they-take-the-bus-because-theyre-poor/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odB1wWPqSlE

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/10/09/report-voter-id-laws-reduce-turnout-more-among-african-american-and-younger-voters/

http://www.npr.org/2012/01/28/146006217/why-new-photo-id-laws-mean-some-wont-vote

Why are all your citations from five or so years ago, ICO?
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Melon_Master posted...

Why are all your citations from five or so years ago, ICO?

You're right!

5 years ago is ancient history!

I should totally remove it, since absolutely everything changed since 2012!

https://i.redd.it/8e1rxgpjlkcz.png

WhatPoll posted...

Melon_Master posted...

Why are all your citations from five or so years ago, ICO?

You're right!

5 years ago is ancient history!

I should totally remove it, since absolutely everything changed since 2012!

By internet standards, it is.. Surely there must be more recent evidence to cite, otherwise it looks like you're cherry picking articles.
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well those links seem to be talking about financial situations. it is true, id laws do disenfranchise people wilthless financial means. in some areas, those people in higher number are minorities.

But I'm not saying these laws target any group in particular but the people with less financial means, be it black, white, whatever. This group of people(poor people) tend to vote democrat in higher number, so I dont feel these laws target any specific group. But if in an area the people mist disenfranchised(because IDs cost money) are minority, thats the way it is. But im not saying any group in particular except people with less money.

Ive heard people accuse the anti id law crowd of thinking black people are too stupid to get IDs, which I dont think is true at all.

Melon_Master posted...

By internet standards, it is.. Surely there must be more recent evidence to cite, otherwise it looks like you're cherry picking articles.

You do realize, that things that are not on the internet, tend to slow down to a crawl, right?

Melon_Master posted...

Why are all your citations from five or so years ago, ICO?

Classic deflection

WhatPoll posted...

And before DoctorFoxx uses this to base her claims, these stories are completely bullshit, and skin color has nothing to do with getting an ID that would make you eligible for voting.

uh do you realize most of the ID laws changed after 2012 when your sources are all really old? This is relevant because things changed in 2013.

https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet

VOTER ID LAWS DEPRIVE MANY AMERICANS OF THE RIGHT TO VOTE

Millions of Americans Lack ID. 11% of U.S. citizens or more than 21 million Americans do not have government-issued photo identification.1
Obtaining ID Costs Money. Even if ID is offered for free, voters must incur numerous costs (such as paying for birth certificates) to apply for a government-issued ID.
Underlying documents required to obtain ID cost money, a significant expense for lower-income Americans. The combined cost of document fees, travel expenses and waiting time are estimated to range from $75 to $175.2
The travel required is often a major burden on people with disabilities, the elderly, or those in rural areas without access to a car or public transportation. In Texas, some people in rural areas must travel approximately 170 miles to reach the nearest ID office.3
Voter ID Laws Reduce Voter Turnout. A 2014 GAO study found that strict photo ID laws reduce turnout by 2-3 percentage points,4 which can translate into tens of thousands of votes lost in a single state.5

VOTER ID LAWS ARE DISCRIMINATORY

Minority voters disproportionately lack ID. Nationally, up to 25% of African-American citizens of voting age lack government-issued photo ID, compared to only 8% of whites.6
States exclude forms of ID in a discriminatory manner. Texas allows concealed weapons permits for voting, but does not accept student ID cards. Until its voter ID law was struck down, North Carolina prohibited public assistance IDs and state employee ID cards, which are disproportionately held by Black voters. And until recently, Wisconsin permitted active duty military ID cards, but prohibited Veterans Affairs ID cards for voting.
Voter ID laws are enforced in a discriminatory manner. A Caltech/MIT study found that minority voters are more frequently questioned about ID than are white voters.7
Voter ID laws reduce turnout among minority voters. Several studies, including a 2014 GAO study, have found that photo ID laws have a particularly depressive effect on turnout among racial minorities and other vulnerable groups, worsening the participation gap between voters of color and whites.8

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/why-voter-id-laws-arent-really-about-fraud/

http://www.newsweek.com/voter-id-laws-texas-minority-voters-strict-states-582405

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/11/politics/texas-voter-id-law-discriminate/index.html

Critics of the voter ID law say such requirements disenfranchise poor and minority voters, who face difficulties obtaining IDs. They also point out that while Texas accepts a license to carry a handgun as a permissible form of voter ID, it doesn't accept federal or state government IDs or a student ID.
"The terms of the bill were unduly strict," wrote Judge Nelva Gonzales Ramos for the US District Court for the Southern District of Texas. "Many categories of acceptable photo IDs permitted by other states were omitted from the Texas bill."
She also concluded in Monday's ruling that the law "had a discriminatory impact" and that there had been a "pattern of conduct unexplainable on grounds other than (the) race factor."

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I dont even think a single thing in that link is a constitutional right, except for buying a firearm, which, not knowing laws in every state or every type of transaction, might not even be required 100% of the time.

You can use an ID for a great many things, but you arent required to do those things, thus, arent required to have an ID.