Poll of the Day > why was anime so much better looking in the 90's?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Watching Buu saga Dragon Ball Kai next to Super is baffling

I feel like Gundam Wing's popularity compared to other Gundams has a lot to do with how it's so much more aesthetically pleasing than Seed.

Probably cause anime can't be violent and good time slots these days.
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I haven't watched it but I was under the impression Super is an anonalously bad anime.

I think there's also a lot more low effort cash grab anime now, with a huge number of shows coming out every year, but I could be mistaken. I think there's still a lot of good looking stuff coming out. But I never really watches 90s or earlier anime.

Blightzkrieg posted...

I haven't watched it but I was under the impression Super is an anonalously bad anime.

First two sagas kinda sucked, third saga was alright, but imo it felt like it had bad pacing, current saga has been fucking awesome!
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To be fair, a ton of '90s anime look awful. Google "Masami Obari character design".
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It wasn't.
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i've always prefered the hand drawn art style but computer generated is SO much cheaper and is a lot easier on the artists so i get why animes look the way they do now.
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Japan entered a period of economic decline called stagflation that has continued to this day, rising living costs combined with a weak yen has made doing animation in house more expensive but also outsourcing it to other countries more expensive.

It wasn't. Today's HD anime looks way better.

But it also all depends on the artists. Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo look better than almost anything else, because of the artist.

Gundam Wing is better than any other Gundam series because of the artist. And the writing.

Was Dragon Ball ever good though?

shadowsword87 posted...

Was Dragon Ball ever good though?

Sure, the later seasons were insanely deep. The tournaments were awesome and the RR saga was fantastic

FinalFantasyIV posted...

Watching Buu saga Dragon Ball Kai next to Super is baffling

Well, you at least kinda picked apples-to-apples with that one. In that case, it's probably budget. Not that any Dragonballs show was known for quality artwork.

FinalFantasyIV posted...

I feel like Gundam Wing's popularity compared to other Gundams has a lot to do with how it's so much more aesthetically pleasing than Seed.

idk, I never liked Wing's art compared to the stuff that came before and after it.

FinalFantasyIV posted...

Probably cause anime can't be violent and good time slots these days.

Violence has zero impact on the style or look of animation, nor were the two examples you cited all that violent compared to their new versions. While a lot of anime looks far better than what was in the 90s -- because it's cleaner, thinner lines, etc -- the industry has increasingly adopted new technology and cost-saving shortcuts.

I_Abibde posted...

To be fair, a ton of '90s anime look awful. Google "Masami Obari character design".

Yes, it's more likely nostalgia than anything else. People tend to remember the good and forget all the shit.

shadowsword87 posted...

Was Dragon Ball ever good though?

In art? Not really. But in terms of entertainment, early DB was great as was some of the filler in Z. It's just the major story arcs that drag on and have stupidly long fights mostly consisting of repetitive, re-used action sequences.
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I just watched an ova from 1993 today, it's quite bad/dated compared to today. The high quality stuff tends to stand up, but in general it looks better today.
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I don't particularly dislike new stuff, but I tend to be partial to the old(ish) school. I watched Noir for the first time recently, and even during moments when the low budget seemed obvious, I thought it was just fine.
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Worse*

There are some rare exceptions, but they're still exceptions, not the rule.
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Modern anime looks fine, and I say that as someone who really likes the gritty/dirty aesthetic of old animation.

Now modern western cartoons, on the other hand, look like crap.
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GanonsSpirit posted...

Now modern western cartoons, on the other hand, look like crap.

Living up to your tag. In reality, some of the best-quality western animation has come out in recent years


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Sure, I guess in some universe shit like YuYu Hakusho and Sailor Moon looks good...
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Old Teen Titans and Powerpuff Girls blows the new style animation out of the water.

I think Dragonball Super looks better than old DBZ, though. At least, the cleaned up English/bluray version. I've seen Japanese screenshots and the animation looks really rushed with the weird faces and such.

DocDelicious posted...

Sure, I guess in some universe shit like YuYu Hakusho and Sailor Moon looks good...

I don't think I've even seen you before, but you're on Strike Two.
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Speaking of the 90s, why don't we call anime Japanimation anymore?

gannnon dont ever make me agree with zeus again, ok?
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It didn't. There was a lot of crappy anime with production values on par with 'North Korean Sweat Shop'. It's just that no one remembers something like Mad Bull 34 while almost everyone remembers Dragonball Z. Meanwhile everyone can easily access pretty much every modern anime, including the ones that look outright horrible.
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i love dragon ball super, ok?


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Ogurisama posted...

First two sagas kinda sucked, third saga was alright, but imo it felt like it had bad pacing, current saga has been fucking awesome!

Watching the dub, when does the fourth saga start and how is it?
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-Komaiko54- posted...

Ogurisama posted...

First two sagas kinda sucked, third saga was alright, but imo it felt like it had bad pacing, current saga has been fucking awesome!

Watching the dub, when does the fourth saga start and how is it?

Starts at episode 77
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JTekashiro posted...

Speaking of the 90s, why don't we call anime Japanimation anymore?

My landlord called me a Japanophile instead of a weeaboo and I don't think I've ever been quite so stunned.

lmao^

meme phrases taking over, damn...
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DocDelicious posted...

Sure, I guess in some universe shit like YuYu Hakusho and Sailor Moon looks good...

YYH is reasonably good. Sailor Moon... eh.

Ultima_Dragoon posted...

Old Teen Titans and Powerpuff Girls blows the new style animation out of the water.

Haven't seen much of New Power Puff but the animation looks nicer. As for Teen Titans, that's kind of an apples-to-oranges thing as they went for a drastic style change to reflect the new theme of the show.

JTekashiro posted...

Speaking of the 90s, why don't we call anime Japanimation anymore?

Oh right, that was a thing.
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ive been saying animation looks better back in the 80s since the 90s
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Zeus posted...

GanonsSpirit posted...

Now modern western cartoons, on the other hand, look like crap.

Living up to your tag. In reality, some of the best-quality western animation has come out in recent years

He's going to call that anime influenced.
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Revelation34 posted...

Zeus posted...

GanonsSpirit posted...

Now modern western cartoons, on the other hand, look like crap.

Living up to your tag. In reality, some of the best-quality western animation has come out in recent years

He's going to call that anime influenced.

Could you even name a cartoon that isn't? They're pretty much all animated on computers in China anyway. Modern anime looks amazing or cheap and shitty for exactly that reason. The only reason anyone would think 90s anime was universally better than modern anime is because they aren't looking at cheap trash from the 90s. I mean, I get liking the 90s style and DBS is a specific example of where I prefer its older style but good modern anime is capable of so much more than older stuff and on the whole looks much better.

SomeUsername529 posted...

Could you even name a cartoon that isn't?

Overlooking the incredibly vague criteria, it seems like there are a LOT of cartoons which clearly aren't (first thing to jump to mind -- because I recently watched some of it -- is Wander Over Yonder, although I wouldn't rank its animation as particularly great and it seems inspired by things Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network were doing in the 90s). In general, though, since anime as a medium was directly inspired by western animation, there's always going to be some overlap.

In the case of both Avatars, I think people more associate it with anime *because* of the setting and character designs rather than something inherent to the art style.
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Zeus posted...

In the case of both Avatars, I think people more associate it with anime *because* of the setting and character designs rather than something inherent to the art style.

This is true. Stylistically I think Avatar has way more in common with most western cartoons than any anime. The setup is "reverse-FMA" and I think that makes people associate it with anime, but it lacks most of what I would say are anime's "defining" traits. Though anime is such a broad medium that that doesn't mean much.

It has stuff in common with certain anime (and likely the anime most westerners are familiar with), but there are tons of anime which Avatar is the polar opposite of.

KevinceKostner posted...

Japan entered a period of economic decline called stagflation that has continued to this day, rising living costs combined with a weak yen has made doing animation in house more expensive but also outsourcing it to other countries more expensive.

/Topic

And yes, anime did look better.

A simple test? Go frame by frame and see how many animations per frame there is now compared to the past whenever people would move around.

Whenever people say "there was crappy stuff back then too" nobody is saying ALLLLLLL modern anime looks worse than newer anime, and nobody is saying the majority of it looked better either. What we are saying is there are certain styles and techniques and attention to detail that is never seen anymore and thats sad, no matter how good the new finished products look.

Its like how a lot of 90's pop sounds better because they were singing with their actual voices.

Also, some people lack the biological faculties to appreciate or notice the differences in sights and sounds, and I feel a lot of people who say they don't notice autotune, or 60fps, or when a cartoon has been animated through a pc vs hand drawn are just sour grapes.
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SomeUsername529 posted...

Could you even name a cartoon that isn't? They're pretty much all animated on computers in China anyway. Modern anime looks amazing or cheap and shitty for exactly that reason. The only reason anyone would think 90s anime was universally better than modern anime is because they aren't looking at cheap trash from the 90s. I mean, I get liking the 90s style and DBS is a specific example of where I prefer its older style but good modern anime is capable of so much more than older stuff and on the whole looks much better.

Japan is in China now?
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Simple. It is because you are trolling. lol :P
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bulbinking posted...

And yes, anime did look better.

A simple test? Go frame by frame and see how many animations per frame there is now compared to the past whenever people would move around.

If you have to argue something as inconsequential as frame counts, you've already lost.

bulbinking posted...

Whenever people say "there was crappy stuff back then too" nobody is saying ALLLLLLL modern anime looks worse than newer anime, and nobody is saying the majority of it looked better either. What we are saying is there are certain styles and techniques and attention to detail that is never seen anymore and thats sad, no matter how good the new finished products look.

The best stuff now generally looks better than the best stuff then, and the low stuff now generally looks better than the low stuff then. By contrast, what you're trying to argue is that it doesn't appeal to your specific tastes.

bulbinking posted...

Its like how a lot of 90's pop sounds better because they were singing with their actual voices.

Except that audio-fixing was a thing even in the 90s; in fact, the Josie and the Pussycats movie made fun of the tendency in 2001 and, in the same year, the Simpsons mocked it as well (Yvan eht noij). And, generally speaking, I can't think of a lot of 90s pop that sounded palatable.

bulbinking posted...

Also, some people lack the biological faculties to appreciate or notice the differences in sights and sounds, and I feel a lot of people who say they don't notice autotune, or 60fps, or when a cartoon has been animated through a pc vs hand drawn are just sour grapes.

lol, just fucking lol. As far as defenses go, this is the silliest. "It's worse, but only I can notice it because I have super-senses and you guys don't!" The only problem, of course, being that there's nothing inherent to autotuning or computer-drawn animation that makes it less appealing to somebody with sharper senses.
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There was a definite difference in line weight in the older anime... stuff like Fist of the North Star and Macross have different colour keys than modern animes also
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Sailor Moon is a classic (for me, at least), but I freely admit that it did not look up to par for its time (due to a very low budget, reliance on stock transformation footage, etc.). Then again, I find that faux '80s look endearing.
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Anime back then was hand drawn, now it is all CGI which alot cheaper and faster to make
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