Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 419: Global Force Total Nonstop Impact Wrestling

(+) Yeah! (+)

So with No Mercy on the horizon, I'm taking a brief glance back at the ppvs of the past and here are IMO, the 10 best matches No Mercy has had since its debut in 1999...

HBK vs. Jericho (2008)
Taker vs. Lesnar (2002)
Hardys vs. Edge/Christian (1999)
Angle/Benoit vs. Edge/Mysterio (2002)
Angle vs. Cena (2003)
Styles vs. Cena vs. Ambrose (2016)
Rock vs. Jericho (2001)
Edge vs. Christian (2001)
Miz vs. Ziggler (2016)
HHH vs. Orton's LMS match (2007)
Honorable mention: HHH vs. Jeff Hardy (2008)

This isn't in any order (except the top 4, and you might be able to swap Taker/Lesnar and Hardys/E&C). HHH/Orton Part II can easily be swapped out with HHH/Jeff. 2004-2006 is easy to skip, as a vast majority of the matches weren't that memorable, or at least not top ten worthy. 2000's only noteworthy matches were HHH/Benoit and Rock/Angle; both would probably make a top 15 or top 20 if I were to try ranking every No Mercy match (lololol)
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Here are all of Meltzer's ****+ No Mercy matches

****3/4
Chris Benoit/Kurt Angle vs. Edge/Rey Mysterio (2002)

****1/2
Hardy Boyz vs. Edge/Christian (1999)
Chris Jericho vs. The Rock (2001)
Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels (2008)
Dolph Ziggler vs. The Miz (2016)

****1/4
Kurt Angle vs. The Rock (2000)
Kurt Angle vs. John Cena (2003)
Randy Orton vs. Triple H (2007)
Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy (2008)

****
Triple H vs. Steve Austin (1999)
Triple H vs. Chris Benoit (2000)
Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker (2002)
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Goddamn Jericho/Michaels is so good
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I wonder if there are any other CEOs of major companies who willingly receive head trauma in the middle of running the business

I wonder how stock holders feel about Vince essentially concussing himself and going back to work the next day
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I feel like if you have money invested in the WWE you've long since made peace with the fact that the guy running the company is a lunatic
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Jakyl25 posted...

Here are all of Meltzer's ****+ No Mercy matches

<list>

So I wasn't far off, though I think Edge vs. Christian and Styles/Cena/Ambrose are still solid matches.

That leaves the following main events completely unmentioned, mostly for good reason...

Lesnar vs. Taker II (2003)
JBL vs. Taker (2004)
Batista vs. Eddie (2005)
Booker vs. Lashley vs. Batista vs. Finlay (2006)
Orton vs. Wyatt (2016)

Without question, Orton/Wyatt is the worst of the five and should never have been picked to close the ppv last year. The Last Ride match was considered by JBL to be one of the best matches of his career, and arguably, it might be one of the best ones during his 9 month run as champ, but it still pales in comparison to Meltzer's list posted above. Batista/Eddie was fine; not a great match, but not a terrible one either. The fatal four way was WWE desperately trying to boost the ppv at the last minute by turning two matches into one (which wouldn't be the last time they'd do that in 2006 on ppv either). Finally, I honestly admit I can't stand the Biker Chain match between Taker and Lesnar.

Admittedly, nearly the entire 2003 No Mercy outside Cena/Angle was a massive letdown, and nearly everything about Taker vs. Lesnar that night was rubbish. In 2002, Lesnar beats Taker practically clean in Hell in a Cell, including the part where Taker was allowed by Stephanie to use his own cast as a weapon. All of a sudden 12 months later, Lesnar needs help from Vince McMahon and a group of Italian jobbers to beat the same person? The only match worse that night was Vince vs. Stephanie.
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Jakyl25 posted...

I wonder if there are any other CEOs of major companies who willingly receive head trauma in the middle of running the business

I wonder how stock holders feel about Vince essentially concussing himself and going back to work the next day

Can't have Daniel Bryan taking bumps for risk of head trauma but we can have a 72 old man taking stiff headbutts. Totally makes sense

When does Bryan's contract expire? 2018?

Pretty sure Vince is immortal so taking bumps is safe.

Like really if he outlives all of us would you be shocked?

Hell even if he did die, his body would keep working. He hasn't slept in 42 years
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ShatteredElysium posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

I wonder if there are any other CEOs of major companies who willingly receive head trauma in the middle of running the business

I wonder how stock holders feel about Vince essentially concussing himself and going back to work the next day

Can't have Daniel Bryan taking bumps for risk of head trauma but we can have a 72 old man taking stiff headbutts. Totally makes sense

When does Bryan's contract expire? 2018?

September 2018 as long as they keep using him on TV at the current rate
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ShatteredElysium posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

I wonder if there are any other CEOs of major companies who willingly receive head trauma in the middle of running the business

I wonder how stock holders feel about Vince essentially concussing himself and going back to work the next day

Can't have Daniel Bryan taking bumps for risk of head trauma but we can have a 72 old man taking stiff headbutts. Totally makes sense

When does Bryan's contract expire? 2018?

Well, I don't think Vince is having seizures from prior injuries

Iunno, maybe I'm wrong.
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ShatteredElysium posted...

72 old man taking stiff headbutts. Totally makes sense

A 72 year-old man who still makes all the day to day decisions for the company
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RIP Bobby Heenan
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The greatest manager of all time.

RIP
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Damn

RIP
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Sucks. RIP.
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Holy shit

The greatest manager and the ONLY over-the-top heel commentator to have ever been good
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Sad, but not surprised. The man has had health problems for years. It was always disheartening to see such a fiery individual reduced to a frail old man.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Holy shit

The greatest manager and the ONLY over-the-top heel commentator to have ever been good

I dunno, I feel like Lawler was the perfect foil to JR in the late 90's/early 2000's.
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https://twitter.com/davemeltzerwon/status/909549502255603713

Bobby Heenan just passed away a few hours ago. He was the best ever at what he did.

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https://twitter.com/totaldivaseps/status/909581414810693632
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Ugh. At least he's not suffering anymore.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Holy shit

The greatest manager and the ONLY over-the-top heel commentator to have ever been good

I dunno, I feel like Lawler was the perfect foil to JR in the late 90's/early 2000's.

Did you ever watch a show because of Lawler on commentary?
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You know, of every aspect of what makes the 1992 Rumble one of if not the best examples of storytelling in wrestling, I think Heenan demonstrates better than anyone else ever what a heel commentator can do to put over the story.
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I wish the crowd tomorrow night would be savvy enough after the video tribute to chant "Weasel! Weasel!" instead of anything else.

I doubt it though
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Jerry Lawler has never had a Rumble 1992 moment in his commentary, but to be fair Heenan himself hasn't really had many himself either.

Don't get me wrong I'd put Heenan over peak Lawler pretty easily but I do think Lawler deserves to be in the "good over-the-top heel commentator" category, at his best.
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I don't think there are hardly any Rumble 1992 commentary moments in history though. How many heel commentators have created such iconic moments?
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That's what I was getting at yeah. I can't really judge Lawler for never having had one-- cause it's not like Heenan was generating them all the time himself. It was kinda like a perfect storm and he was just a capable part of that storm that stepped up.

I can't say for sure peak Lawler could have had a similar moment if given the opportunity but I don't hold the fact that he hasn't against him either. Lawler was pretty great when he was on-- don't let the fact that probably over half of his career's commentary was on average lethargic keep that from him.
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Saying Lawler was good isn't saying Lawler was AS good as Heenan cause he obviously wasn't. Your argument seemed to be that Heenan was the only good over-the-top heel commentator and I'd disagree with that.

Also I never watched a show because of anyone on commentary.
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Honestly I thought Ventura had his moments as well and was generally pretty good at it. And Johnny Polo (Raven for those who didn't watch any WWE in like 93-94, and I wouldn't blame you) was underrated in this role too, for what little time he did it.

I think Corey Graves has flashes of greatness, though I don't think he'll ever reach that level on anything remotely resembling a consistent basis. Not really his fault I think it's kinda impossible to do with the current product paradigm WWE has.

(Though he does have his cringe moments too. He feels like such a creeper whenever any women are out there. And yes I do realize I was just praising King-- it's worse than him for sure, probably largely because it's not really acknowledged as creeper material by the other announcers like it was for King)

So I mean, I guess what I'm saying is I think there were actually a decent amount of good over-the-top heel commentators, even though I will always say Heenan was the best by far. I do think it's a good role, but it is something that has large backfire potential if done poorly, and it is done poorly very often unfortunately which can leave a lot of us with bad tastes in our mouths about it.
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Wasn't JBL really good once upon a time?
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Depends on who you ask. I was never a huge fan personally, though he was obviously much better long ago much like King was.
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So who were the greatest potential heel commentators who never tried it as a full-time gig?

Excluding current workers, my #1 would probably be Austin. He had some real flashes of greatness in his early WWF days.
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Booker T is secretly the best heel commentator ever

How else do you figure everyone hates his commentary? You're supposed to!

lmao
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I actually like Booker T's commentary more than most. Dude makes no sense at all but at least he's enthusiastic.

Which probably makes most scoff at my appraisal of announcing but whatever.

Best guy who wasn't given a shot... hmmm... not sure about Austin not sure he translates well-- would expect him to be better as a face announcer actually as his style as a heel is more about cutting dudes down and obviously you don't want to bury the guys out there. Maybe he could make it work, but I mean we've seen like, Ted Dibiase and Macho Man so it's not a given you're a good announcer if you're a good talker.

All things considered, to be an effective heel announcer, to me the recurring theme has always been that the announcer needs to have some smarminess to em. So I cross map the great smarmy characters of the past with the great talkers, but removing the more bombastic ones like Flair as they'd just overwhelm the announce position. So we're left with Chris Jericho (specifically in his shrieking conspiracy theorist character), Christian, Edge, Christopher Daniels, Disco Inferno (yes) coming to mind as potentially great. Current guys Kevin Owens and Miz could in the future be pretty great too.

I actually often hired Disco Inferno as a color commentator in TEW games set in eras where he was well past wrestling prime so yeah I think that'd actually be really awesome. Disco Inferno is my official pick. I think he's just got the perfect character for it combined with enough natural talking ability and charisma to do pretty well there.
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i like booker t's only when I don't take it seriously shucky ducky quack quack

jbl's was just obnoxious
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Lopen posted...

Honestly I thought Ventura had his moments as well and was generally pretty good at it. And Johnny Polo (Raven for those who didn't watch any WWE in like 93-94, and I wouldn't blame you) was underrated in this role too, for what little time he did it.

I think Corey Graves has flashes of greatness, though I don't think he'll ever reach that level on anything remotely resembling a consistent basis. Not really his fault I think it's kinda impossible to do with the current product paradigm WWE has.

See these are the people I was excluding with the "over the top" qualifier.

None of these people were/are so comically heel that you can't take them seriously. Lawler was but not these guys. There was/is always a logic to their slants.
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I didn't like it when they swapped out Otunga on Raw for Booker. I've never really liked his commentary. Those times when he stumbles and tries to catch up make me cringe.
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But he's so GUUD!
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I took "over the top" to mean like "favors the heel exclusively" which to me is kinda over the top since no normal person is always going to favor the heel (though to be fair I believe this DQs Graves regardless once in a great while-- THE DRIFTER-- and I sorta got off topic)-- if you were being more narrow... well, maybe-- you've got a lot less to compare with too if you're going that route though.

I kinda think Johnny Polo still applies though! That guy was wacky!
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKA-eJNWAAIaDMj?format=jpg&name=large

Lol Starrcade
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You know, that actually gets me pretty hyped.
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https://twitter.com/codyrhodes/status/909812479068340228

Shots fired re: Starrcade
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Am I remembering correctly punk on heel color multiple times? I know I liked him.
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Punk was great on heel commentary. Very comparable to Graves
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Punk was awesome. Not sure if he holds up on an A show where he can't just completely bury the product at all times though. He's also not really an over-the-top type either.

Though he was on Raw a few times in addition to the NXT Divas show no one cared about-- not sure if he did that there or not.
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Bound for Glory is in Ottawa...

Do i go?
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Yes if only to see whatever the hell Laurel van Ness is going to do.
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I don't know who that is
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JetJaguar posted...

Wasn't JBL really good once upon a time?

I liked him during his first run as commentator from mid 2006 to late 2007. But his recent years on Raw/SD haven't been that good at all
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Zack Ryder's girlfriend

Wants to marry Grado
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