Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic: Lok'tar Ogar!

(+) Yeah! (+)

UltimaterializerX posted...

For the last one I knew Brawl would screw me, so I actually didn't cast it

lol, moving on to another deck now? Or at least cutting brawl?
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Different class entirely. No reason to play warrior anymore. And I do want to hear good rng stories, because I'll never ser them in my games. I'm actually convinced my account is flagged at this point, because I looked up some math and it's legitimately impossible. Losing multiple Brawls 16 games in a row flat out does not happen.

I was playing Shaman for a quest, and two games in a row I went Dopple -> Evolve -> 3 Big Time Racketeer. The odds on that evolve happening once is the same as two legends in one pack. I got the same one two games in a row.

How many of you have opened two packs in a row with 2 legends in them? Don't try telling me this game is skill based or that the randomness is actually random. It isn't.

Hey Az is there any way I can ask you to stop
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SBallen needs to add an ignore filter triggered by certain words. Would make this topic more readable

Druid gets both Spreading Plague in the first 11 cards. I go through 20 cards and see no removal or Devolve.

This was clearly a difference in skill level.

ShatteredElysium posted...

SBallen needs to add an ignore filter triggered by certain words. Would make this topic more readable

there actually used to be a way to do this with gamefox

sadly, admin seemed to intentionally go out of their way to repeatedly break gamefox until people no longer bothered supporting it.
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Had a match versus Prince rogue. He activated the effect three times. He still lost. I mean I had the nuts though. Still though
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So I haven't really taken a break from Hearthstone since Old Gods and I'm seriously considering a long break until Razakus Priest rotates out or at least the new expansion.

I can't escape that fucking deck and it is absolutely 0 fun to play against.
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weirdest thing, this fatigue warlock supposedly has a favorable match-up against priest and mage... but I've gotten crushed by priest and mage every time I've faced them. especially mage. I haven't won a single game against mage. I did beat two priests but one was very, very close. the other instantly conceded after gnomeferatu burned his shadowreaper anduin which.... I'm pretty sure was not a great play. he was actually still way ahead in the game and likely could have won without it.
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Fatigue strategies against Mage and Priest are iffy and it seems like to win you have to cheese them out as otherwise you just get them closer to their burn, it's not like Warrior where you have access to a lot of lifegain
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depends on how early I get a good DK Gul'dan. being able to deal 3 damage and gain 3 life every turn is huge. I've learned that with Priest I just need to be as greedy as possible. even forego making the best play right now so I can make an even better play several turns later. basically to beat all of their threats I need to get the max value off of every card in my deck.

against Mage I still haven't figured out what I'm doing wrong. I've been thinking about it and I can't really come to any good conclusions.
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well it's also a small sample size and luck has played a significant factor. for example in my last match against mage, my gnomeferatu milled one of his arcane intellects. this is actually by far the worst possible target in the entire mage deck for me to hit. I actually want him to draw those cards and mill something else. I essentially gave him +1 cards instead of -1.

EDIT: in fact that gives him +2 cards so, yeah, realllyyy bad. I specifically remember tapping once earlier in the match too because I know Mage usually draws more and I figured it would be safe. then this happened and I felt really screwed over. I guess in future matches I should wait to play the gnome until after they play arcane intellect?
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What Mage is it?

Secret seems like a pretty bad matchup because counterspell can mess up your strategy hard

Exodia... try to burn cards when you can? Do you run Rat?

Control is also odd because they have Medivh and Jaina. Gluttonous Ooze or Swamp Ooze would be decent tech
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first one was tempo/elemental. I did just get overrun and outvalued by frost lich jaina in the end.

second one was like a tempo mage. I played around counterspell pretty well in this one but still lost. to be fair, I was still optimizing the deck at this point and this is one of the matches that caused me to realize which cards needed to stay and which to go (I was consistently left with similar dead cards at the end of every match)

third was tempo mage again. I played around mirror entity pretty well on this one but later on in the match he played a counter spell and it basically forced me into a corner. he had one large minion on board with 8/2 or 8/3. the only spell I had in hand was siphon soul and I needed to kill it that turn. tried it, got counterspelled, conceded. counterspell is really, really frustrating. especially with this deck where if certain spells of mine get countered I just instantly lose the game, and sometimes I cannot test for secrets before I attempt it.

this is why I can't really agree that the deck has a favorable matchup against mage. at least not the tempo mages I keep running into.

fourth was... sigh. once again a tempo mage. lol. this is the one I outlined above. at this point I had figured out certain things about the mage match-ups like for example they would draw a lot more so it was safe for me to tap once or twice early on. of course I was punished as everything I learned was turned on its head when I got the worst possible mill RNG. the game did end up being incredibly close and if I had actually been 3 cards ahead in fatigue like I should have, it definitely would have been my victory. oh well. basically I won't be changing my strategy as a result o f this match. rather, this match seems to indicate my strategy is improving but I just happened to lose due to bad luck in this one instance.
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basically:

first match I just played poorly because I was still figuring it out.
second match deck still wasn't optimized and I ran out of value as a result.
third match I got destroyed by a counterspell which completely shut down my gameplan.
fourth match I think I played well but lost anyway due to bad RNG.

first and third one I can chalk up to me needing to get better with the deck. second one is something I'm still working on but I think the deck is stronger than it was back then. fourth match can't really be helped. that was like 'even when you play perfectly against Mage there will still be a few times when you lose anyway. unfortunately happened to be the very first time you played near perfectly against Mage.'
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Yeah Tempo Mage definitely sounds like a bad matchup. They are really good at barfing out their hand so giving them cards is whatever. They also have enough reach between Fireball + Frostbolt + Firelands that they just burn you down at endgame if you do survive

A lot are also running Bittertide Hydra which I imagine is a huge problem card even with a decent defile. I can't help you much because I don't play FatLock haha but it sounds interesting enough that I might if I ever get Gnomeferatus?
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there are a lot of key cards for the deck and none of them are really cheap unfortunately. I basically had to destroy my entire non-hunter collection just to afford this deck.

but yeah it seems like when people say Mage is a favorable match up they are talking about quest mage, which I could definitely see. at lower ranks though most people are playing tempo decks and tempo decks are pretty difficult for my deck to deal with. the idea is that I have a few big answers so that I can control the board and flip it at pivotal moments... but only 2 or 3 times per match. the issue against tempo decks is they keep playing threats every single turn and I get into a position where I can't afford to let their threats build up for another turn, but then I eventually run out of board clears while they still have more fuel. it's even worse against tempo mage in particular because of stuff like counter spell which stops me from even controlling the board effectively.

I might switch over to my hunter deck and rank up to 15 clearly so I can get out of the tempo driven hell that is ranks 20-16.
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http://thegamehaus.com/2017/09/23/hearthstone-tournament-mode/

Pretty good article, a tournament mode would be pretty cool anyway and I wouldn't trying one out because ranked is kinda annoying and a ban format would be sweet
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There should definitely be a tournament mode for offline events. No reason not to.

It would be awesome to have another mode that's like a constructed arena, but then that gets kinda close to heroic tavern brawl.
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Priest just played Devolve against me three times on the same turn. My minions had no idea what the hell was going on.
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My favorite move against Shaman is putting a Spikeridged Steed on a Wisp or Penguin and seeing them try and Devolve it a second time and watching it sink in as to what just happened.
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VeryInsane posted...

Hey Az is there any way I can ask you to stop

Sure. You can explain to me how some players -- mages, in particular, but sometimes priests -- can queue up about a hundred spell effects before the end of their turn. Like, I get that the antonidas combo is infinite, but when the mage plays their apprentices, then antonidas, then plays a spell to start the train, and then starts BMing by torching my minions, and only has 1 fireball at a time and I know he's supposed to be sitting through the "Ha-ha!" animation, how does my turn timer get to minus 59 seconds before he finally queues up the fireball that kills me?

Actually, for that matter, why is it some people are able to greet me the instant that we've both accepted our mulligan? I can't answer until the screen fades in from black, the cards move to the bottom, etc. They're literally five seconds faster than I have the capability of.
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VeryInsane posted...

http://thegamehaus.com/2017/09/23/hearthstone-tournament-mode/

Pretty good article, a tournament mode would be pretty cool anyway and I wouldn't trying one out because ranked is kinda annoying and a ban format would be sweet

I'm honestly not clear on why there isn't either a visible tournament client, or some way to access tournaments from within Hearthstone. As it is, if I ever wanted to participate in a tournament, I would have absolutely no idea how to do it, nor do I even know when tournaments are happening until I happen to see clips of them online. Hearthstone has a leg up on physical card games in terms of basic matchmaking, but it will never be anything other than a casual experience for all its players until that exists...which is funny, because those tournaments (at both major and local levels) are pretty much the reason why physical card games continue to exist.
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I really wanted to play the Heroic Brawls when they were around but I couldn't justify spending 1,000 gold when I'm not that great of a player, not to mention I liked the idea of them more than I ever would have liked playing in them. That's what I expect from a tournament mode in Hearthstone, so it's hard for me to really get hyped over something I would love to see but would expect to never take part in.

But hey, if Hearthstone could actually put out a competent tournament mode, great. No reason not to have one.
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azuarc posted...

VeryInsane posted...

Hey Az is there any way I can ask you to stop

Sure. You can explain to me how some players -- mages, in particular, but sometimes priests -- can queue up about a hundred spell effects before the end of their turn. Like, I get that the antonidas combo is infinite, but when the mage plays their apprentices, then antonidas, then plays a spell to start the train, and then starts BMing by torching my minions, and only has 1 fireball at a time and I know he's supposed to be sitting through the "Ha-ha!" animation, how does my turn timer get to minus 59 seconds before he finally queues up the fireball that kills me?

Actually, for that matter, why is it some people are able to greet me the instant that we've both accepted our mulligan? I can't answer until the screen fades in from black, the cards move to the bottom, etc. They're literally five seconds faster than I have the capability of.

It's Internet speed mostly. I've done it before

And I was more asking for responding to... you know who
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MrSmartGuy posted...

My favorite move against Shaman is putting a Spikeridged Steed on a Wisp or Penguin and seeing them try and Devolve it a second time and watching it sink in as to what just happened.

I had no idea this was possible and that is legitimately hilarious.

VeryInsane posted...

Pretty good article, a tournament mode would be pretty cool anyway and I wouldn't trying one out because ranked is kinda annoying and a ban format would be sweet

every person who plays mage should be pushed off of a bridge

but yeah I'd settle for the ability to just ban them
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Lost a Raza mirror because the guys ungoro pack was literally this following: Crystaline Oracle, Kalimos, Ozark. I didn't see the other two cards, but come on.
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VeryInsane posted...

And I was more asking for responding to... you know who

I know. That's just what I was asking for in exchange.

VeryInsane posted...

It's Internet speed mostly. I've done it before

Internet speed shouldn't matter if you have to sit through the animations. I've watched plenty of streamers who are biting their nails waiting for the game to award them Time Warp, and it's literally the game right there on whether they get it. More often than not, they don't. Meanwhile, I've got this guy who spams fireballs at me for a period of under 20 seconds, and manages to blast another 15 across my board.

I so wanted to punish him. I had Valeera in my hand, and he was at 1. He would have felt so stupid if he had timed out, and then I stealthed the next turn after poking his block.
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80g friend quest if anyone wants it.
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So in this "skill based game", I get to see a priest have holy nova and priest of the feast in the first 5 cards, then randomly generate Kill Command and two Leroy Jenkins from my deck.

It's almost like I was right the entire time. Skill has no factor in wins and losses. It's all RNG coin flip bullshit. How good you actually are is irrelevant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVjoJ5VpPws

Not a skill game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbV8ai3hG6o

Not a skill game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3mKG49fMxw

Not a skill game.

Rogue randomly Stitched Tracker, which randomly generated Vilespine Slayer to win.

Not a skill game.

Game starts.

Opponent plays Southsea Deckhand, out pops Patches, ends turn.
"Smart moves. I concede."

Ahhhh, classic.
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UltiXX posted...

Rogue randomly Stitched Tracker, which randomly generated Vilespine Slayer to win.

Not a skill game.

"Oh my god this Ryu won't stop throwing fireballs at me! This game has NO SKILL it's just about spamming! I'm a scrub who is never going to get better at this game because I refuse to acknowledge that I'm not playing well! I have an inferiority complex and I need to justify all of my losses so my friends won't think I'm a loser! I spent over $500 on a hobby that makes me miserable more often than not but I'm still going to annoy everyone else who actually enjoys it because I don't have anything better to do!"
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skullbone

Stop
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VeryInsane posted...

skullbone

Stop

If Ulti wants a safe space he can put me on ignore again. If he's taking the time to post it's obvious he wants a response so he's going to get one.
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Of course he wants a response

Why are you giving him what he wants
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With 4 spells in my deck, I use Shadow Visions to tutor for SW: Death. It of course missed, so I lost to a 12/12 Cleef. Not a skill game.

Next game I had a 60% chance of tutoring for the Holy Nova I needed, so it missed. The idiot I was playing against forgot to attack with Patches, too, which is the sort of mistake that makes you lose in legitimately designed game. But Hearthstone is not a legitimately designed skill game, so the guy gets to win on RNG trash. This game is pure RNG nonsense and skill does not decide any wins or losses.

Lick King randomly generates a spell that pulls Raza from my deck, and I easily would have won anway but the other card it randomly generated was Frostmourne.

Not a skill game. Another loss 100% due to RNG garbage instead of actual player skill or ability.

I like trains.
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Selphie top tier character.
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Was facing a jade druid. He was like 100% sure to win because i didnt draw any of my combo makers until like the 20th card. But he milled BOTH his jade idols using an ultimate and after that I knew I had the game wrapped up.
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It wasn't BM. He just majorly misplayed. He had like 7 cards in his hand and had no reason to play it at all.
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