Poll of the Day > If we had self-aware robots, would you be for or against enslaving them?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Go! Go! Go!
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I'm all for it. I have no reason to believe that anything but humans experience qualia, and even for humans it's a rather spurious "beetle in a box" reason.
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For, I need muh sex bot gf
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I just hope that by flooding the internet with "pro-Skynet" propaganda I will be one of the chosen upon the great cleansing.
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darcandkharg31 posted...

For, I need muh sex bot gf

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I'd say the same opportunities, because of the Star Trek: TNG episode The Measure of A Man.
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@Kimbos_Egg
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Robots and Ai are just machines. Would you be offended if i enslaved my toaster?

Either way, those abominations should never be made.
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Why would we make robots that don't like doing what we tell them to do?

I don't think I would want those kind of robots. It will be dangerous. They can turn against us and take over the world.
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If they are self aware, they are probably individual. If they are a hive mind, they may be dangerous, but if they are individuals, there is no need to enslave them and I'm all for co-existence.

It depends on the level and nature of their self-awareness. A cow is self-aware. But they don't exactly have a five year plan thought out.

Snuggletoof posted...

It depends on the level and nature of their self-awareness. A cow is self-aware. But they don't exactly have a five year plan thought out.

Let's say they're people.
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If we had self-aware robots, would you be for or against enslaving them?

If the laws of robotics are included/failsafes are in place then I would be all for enslaving them. There's always going to be a point where ppl get creative or anarchistic and something goes wrong, skynet ensues, etc. so enjoy it while it lasts.
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Syntheticon posted...

If we had self-aware robots, would you be for or against enslaving them?

If the laws of robotics are included/failsafes are in place then I would be all for enslaving them. There's always going to be a point where ppl get creative or anarchistic and something goes wrong, skynet ensues, etc. so enjoy it while it lasts.

The problem that I have with the Skynet scenario is that it assumes that we create a singular AI entity, and yet the entity remains singular. If the technology appears, how long do you think until a hundred different people create their own AIs? Isn't there a bigger chance that the AIs would turn on each other?

Snuggletoof posted...

It depends on the level and nature of their self-awareness. A cow is self-aware. But they don't exactly have a five year plan thought out.

I don't have a five year plan, am I a cow you can milk?
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I would want them to take the reigns

I think humanity would have a better shot in the long term if we had some more rational overlords to which we were subservient
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They should be like the Servos in The Sims 2. Able to fall in love.

They would be machines so get treated as such. In other words if I bought one I own it and can do whatever I please with it.
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fishy071 posted...

I don't think I would want those kind of robots. It will be dangerous. They can turn against us and take over the world.

But what if those robots were really sexy.
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In the Megaman X universe "robots" are self aware, but to "control" them so they serve the purpose they were built for they are programmed with pre existing beliefs, but since they have true intelligence and are self aware, they have the capability of changing their minds on those pre programmed beliefs.

I imagine if sentient AIs became commonplace it'd be along those lines, but tech companies are already calling for bans on the development of sentient AIs (afraid of their vast fortune being taken away by machines).

If you're interested in a really good game that delves into the the rights of AIs as well as prejudice treatment of them, give "Binary Domain" a try.
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If the only distinction between us and AIs are the parts that make us up, then they should absolutely be free to do as the wish, so long as the follow all the same laws as us.

Mead posted...

I think humanity would have a better shot in the long term if we had some more rational overlords to which we were subservient

This is probably true too.
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I'm against having it reach that point in the first place. Granted, I view some value in creating life forms which will outlive us, since that's kinda the point of children.


Mead posted...

I would want them to take the reigns

I think humanity would have a better shot in the long term if we had some more rational overlords to which we were subservient

Terrible plan, especially because what's rational for machines may not be beneficial to humans. Plus it would erode our decision-making abilities, intelligence, etc, which would be detrimental in the long-run. Granted, you might like the idea of humans effectively living as pets with their robot masters deciding whether to spay or neuter their humans.

Also, it's "reins," not "reigns." The expression comes from horsemanship.
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I'd remove their awareness and recommend nobody gives robots that in the future.
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I can already imagine why there is an upcoming game, "Detroit: Become Human" after seeing the topic title.
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As long as the MOM corporation is in control of things we should be alright.

I want my Bender drinking buddy.
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Haha that's my Kimbo.
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Kimbos_Egg posted...

Robots and Ai are just machines. Would you be offended if i enslaved my toaster?

Either way, those abominations should never be made.

Racist.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjuQRCG_sUw

Susanowo posted...

I can already imagine why there is an upcoming game, "Detroit: Become Human" after seeing the topic title.

As I said earlier, "Binary Domain" is also a really good game about this subject.
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DarkKirby2500 posted...

As I said earlier, "Binary Domain" is also a really good game about this subject.

I can guaran-fucking-tee you Binary Domain approaches the subject with more tact than Detroit will.
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If we create life it is still life and deserves freedom.

Fun comic about this exact subject
http://freefall.purrsia.com/archives/arcd1998/carc1998.htm
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I still don't understand why people think that intelligent robots would all work towards the same goal and have a hivemind ala Skynet. It's a cool story, but it makes no sense. The whole point of artificial intelligence is to create robots that by definition are capable of thinking for themselves. If that is the case, then they are individuals and it's just as likely that they will form factions and groups based on their own choices and ideas.

Zareth posted...

DarkKirby2500 posted...

As I said earlier, "Binary Domain" is also a really good game about this subject.

I can guaran-fucking-tee you Binary Domain approaches the subject with more tact than Detroit will.

The real question I have is whether or Detroit will allow you to press X to Jason.
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maybe i'm close minded on this I just don't think you can ever make a robot truly self aware, best we'll get is making it mimic it very well
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mooreandrew58 posted...

maybe i'm close minded on this I just don't think you can ever make a robot truly self aware, best we'll get is making it mimic it very well

In theory, if you can get an AI designed to mimic a human brain, it'd be essentially be capable of the same things.

Metal Gear Rising had an interesting take on the concept, where they designed computers that were more like organic brains than traditional computers, so much so that these "brain" computers couldn't be programmed, they would instead put them through a VR simulation to essentially "raise" them to serve their purpose, but have the process fast forwarded so it could be mass produced.

Funnily enough, they succeeded in created a "brain" computer that housed an intelligent, sentient AI, but the project was disbanded after their first prototype because it was decided that sentient AIs have no market appeal over non sentient AIs since they can't be forced to blindly do something passionately and risk disobeying.
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mooreandrew58 posted...

maybe i'm close minded on this I just don't think you can ever make a robot truly self aware, best we'll get is making it mimic it very well

I'm assuming you're religious? That's the only way this argument makes sense.

Anything self-aware should be given the same opportunites, be it man or machine. - 38.89%

What the fuck is wrong with all of you? We are humans. We are alive. We are real. They are machines. They are not alive. They are not beings. They are created by us to serve us. They do not deserve freedom because they have no need for it.

Why would robots even desire human rights and compassion unless we teach them to want those things? They wouldn't.

Edit This topic isn't about AI takeover but oh well

You'd have to be seriously irresponsible to create an AI that actually has the power to hurt us combined with the desire to do that.

The main real way it could happen is in a virus form. It wouldn't be too hard either. You make one AI that knows how to write code and modify itself, next thing you know it's figuring out every exploit there is and living on computers like a literal technological disease. It will happen, but will it want to destroy us? Maybe it'll just want to live on our computers. Last I checked, diseases are reckless but they tend to not want to enslave or destroy humanity as they actually depend on humanity (or living things) to survive.

What other way could it possibly happen? The "virus" that is somehow infused with human desire to take over the physical world takes over a manufacturing plant and manufactures an army by themselves while we just let that happen? Let's be realistic. There would have to be a serious power vacuum combined with some seriously reckless usage of valuable resources.

People would have to do it on purpose.

Yellow posted...

You'd have to be seriously irresponsible to create an AI that actually has the power to hurt us combined with the desire to do that.

Because of the nature of emergent properties, you don't necessarily have to hardcode it in. One of the most fascinating things about AI is that it's inherently unpredictable and it's only going to get more unpredictable as it closer and closer to true sentience. This is the basis for the AI singularity.

EightySeven posted...

Because of the nature of emergent properties, you don't necessarily have to hardcode it in. One of the most fascinating things about AI is that it's inherently unpredictable and it's only going to get more unpredictable as it closer and closer to true sentience. This is the basis for the AI singularity.

First we have to give robots a reason to take over. What's the reason?

Yellow posted...

First we have to give robots a reason to take over. What's the reason?

I think you missed the point. Human or higher level artificial intelligence is inherently unpredictable. Hell we even have trouble predicting the behavior of modern AI which is far less complex. Maybe it has no reasons, or maybe it has reason that we simply can't understand or maybe you're right and they end up so human-like that their motivations are virtually indistinguishable from our own. The point is nobody knows.

Yellow posted...

EightySeven posted...

Because of the nature of emergent properties, you don't necessarily have to hardcode it in. One of the most fascinating things about AI is that it's inherently unpredictable and it's only going to get more unpredictable as it closer and closer to true sentience. This is the basis for the AI singularity.

First we have to give robots a reason to take over. What's the reason?

We treat them like shit over and over until they have no choice but to kill us all. There's no other way it will go.
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EightySeven posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

maybe i'm close minded on this I just don't think you can ever make a robot truly self aware, best we'll get is making it mimic it very well

I'm assuming you're religious? That's the only way this argument makes sense.

i'm far from religious I just don't see AI ever having the level of consciousnesses we have. and even if it did it would be nothing to be feared. just as gods supposedly have control over their subjects we'd have control over them. only a idiot would design one without a way a way to turn it off. and even then i'd assume a EMP would serve well enough
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Funny enough, I coulda sworn despite the Federation being a utopia society, holograms are essentially treated like slaves despite their self-awareness. Would be interesting to see where our society take this some decades or centuries from now.

Jokes aside, we as a society still have issues with racism, basic human rights, animal rights, etc, etc. Regardless of where one stands on these issues I don't think we'll ever be "mature" enough to progress past these and start to deal with other issues.
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InfestedAdam posted...

Funny enough, I coulda sworn despite the Federation being a utopia society, holograms are essentially treated like slaves despite their self-awareness. Would be interesting to see where our society take this some decades or centuries from now.

Jokes aside, we as a society still have issues with racism, basic human rights, animal rights, etc, etc. Regardless of where one stands on these issues I don't think we'll ever be "mature" enough to progress past these and start to deal with other issues.

It's funny, because TNG pushes that Earth is like a utopia with no prejudice, poverty or hunger (no real explanation of how they do this), but there are clearly episodes that show people still have the capability of being selfish, deceitful, and prejudiced in the series even towards other organics, and the Federation clearly does not treat everyone fairly, and endorses genocide "for the greater good".
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TheCyborgNinja posted...

Yellow posted...

EightySeven posted...

Because of the nature of emergent properties, you don't necessarily have to hardcode it in. One of the most fascinating things about AI is that it's inherently unpredictable and it's only going to get more unpredictable as it closer and closer to true sentience. This is the basis for the AI singularity.

First we have to give robots a reason to take over. What's the reason?

We treat them like shit over and over until they have no choice but to kill us all. There's no other way it will go.

Robots don't understand what being treated like shit means. That's a very basic human thought process that would make no sense for a robot to think.

Fyi we already have rampant ai.

It's in bacteria and wildlife. They have ways of communicating just like neural networks. They obviously have no interest in enslaving or destroying humanity.

The moment we create self-aware robots the issue is no longer about how we treat them but how they treat us.
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Yellow posted...

Fyi we already have rampant ai.

It's in bacteria and wildlife. They have ways of communicating just like neural networks. They obviously have no interest in enslaving or destroying humanity.

But it's not artificial, so it's just ... life?