Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 125: Her Name Is Heather Heyer.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://twitter.com/senjohnmccain/status/897624579589451778

McCain also blasted Trump
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Wanglicious posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Would anyone here disagree that Trump at least SEEMED more pissed off about the Lee statue than he did about a white supremacist killing a person?

he totally did.
i don't know if he's just a big fan of Lee or if this is some warped "I defend our military!" mentality going on but he was absolutely more pissed about the statue than the murder.

I really think it's him protecting groups that praise him. That simple.
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Remember, Trump's big thing is loyalty. And his moral compass is guided by who likes him and who doesn't.
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that too. Trump at his core doesn't seem to have policy positions so much as general attitudes about how things should be.
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transience posted...

I don't think either. Trump is one of those guys that sees the backlash against the confederacy through the lens of political correctness/attacks on white america/etc. it's not about Lee himself at all. he probably sees the march as something that has legitimate roots and thinks the violence came from people protesting it.

As much as correlation can be drawn from that, I don't think that's what's happening, he's trying to hand wave a group that votes for him, how deep into those waters he goes exactly is difficult to determine, but the fact he's willing to dip a toe at all is worth condemnation.

His speeches have always left a sour taste in my mouth, but the fact he had to be chivied to condemn Nazis, and still couldn't do it without trying to bring culpability to those opposing it is just fucked.

I'm all for condemning the problems on both sides, but by equating the two here what he's doing is two fold one attributing racist views to the right on the whole, two ignoring the fact there's no positive to Nazism.

I can deal with the problems on the left later, the fact Nazis felt comfortable enough to publicly extol their views is deplorable.
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https://twitter.com/depresseddarth/status/897580909955883008

So true. Many sides
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It's alright remember Stormtroopers can't shoot so how could they have waged war efficiently against anybody?
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https://twitter.com/ismashfizzle/status/892557827675480064

This is a pretty interesting thread IMO. A look into some misperceptions people may have about affirmative action, even if they don't have any hatred behind them
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This 20 minute Vice documentary on what happened in cville is very worth watching (and also very disturbing):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P54sP0Nlngg

By the way, @SmartMuffin, don't you regularly listen to this Cantwell guy? In this video he's literally arguing that Heather Heyer's murder was justified.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

cville

Well I read that as cwcville and now I can't help but think Chris-Chan is involved.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

By the way, @SmartMuffin, don't you regularly listen to this Cantwell guy? In this video he's literally arguing that Heather Heyer's murder was justified.

He's DONATED MONEY to Cantwell
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Checked out Alex Jones' Twitter for a lunacy palette cleanser just to see what his goofiest take today is

Apparently the German government wants to inject drugs into the population that will affect their minds in such a way that they'll accept more migrants

Okay
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Jimmy Kimmel has a good idea

Let's negotiate with Trump. He likes that!

Let's cut him a deal where he gives up the Presidency and in exchange we crown him the first and only King of the United States of America

Give him a gold castle, and a bunch of fluff ceremonial powers, and we can all move on.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Jimmy Kimmel has a good idea

Let's negotiate with Trump. He likes that!

Let's cut him a deal where he gives up the Presidency and in exchange we crown him the first and only King of the United States of America

Give him a gold castle, and a bunch of fluff ceremonial powers, and we can all move on.

That sounds very risky. Powers have a way of expanding or contracting far beyond their original intention (see Commerce Clause).
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LordoftheMorons posted...

This 20 minute Vice documentary on what happened in cville is very worth watching (and also very disturbing):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P54sP0Nlngg

By the way, @SmartMuffin, don't you regularly listen to this Cantwell guy? In this video he's literally arguing that Heather Heyer's murder was justified.

Fucking hell. Fuck that guy. What fucking video did he watch? I'm going to assume it's just lies to further his pathetic sidemouthed bullshit.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Jimmy Kimmel has a good idea

Let's negotiate with Trump. He likes that!

Let's cut him a deal where he gives up the Presidency and in exchange we crown him the first and only King of the United States of America

Give him a gold castle, and a bunch of fluff ceremonial powers, and we can all move on.

Don't even have to do this. Tell him if he doesn't leave the presidency that we will fill his library with Hillary's books.
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Jakyl25 posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

By the way, @SmartMuffin, don't you regularly listen to this Cantwell guy? In this video he's literally arguing that Heather Heyer's murder was justified.

He's DONATED MONEY to Cantwell

Wtf...
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After a weekend like this, more than ever, I want Hillary to run for NYC Mayor.

Damn you Donald for ever making me say that.
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MenuWars posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

By the way, @SmartMuffin, don't you regularly listen to this Cantwell guy? In this video he's literally arguing that Heather Heyer's murder was justified.

He's DONATED MONEY to Cantwell

Wtf...

TBF, that was back when Cantwell was still a "Libertarian" (heavy use of quotation marks there) before he started openly identifying as a fascist. That said, Smartmuffin still follows him and has never disavowed him, I guess with the excuse LOL HE MAKES LIBURLS (AND "LEFT LIBERTARIANS" AN EVEN WORSE GROUP IN HIS EYES) SO MAD LOLOLOL!!!
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watching that vice vid and holy shit that guy in the first interview. just wow.

"Jewish communists and criminal n******."
see, that's one of the things if no protests existed, you would've heard more of. this is why i know they weren't close, this is the kind of language you'd hear from them and so much worse. and that would've been for everyone to see, hear, and realize just how incredibly bigoted they are.

and that interview with the Daily Stormer guy is confirming exactly what i was saying and i'm happy to see it from the horse's mouth so you guys don't have to think i'm just BS'ing my bio of them/what they genuinely thought. i said earlier that they legitimately thought this was their time and that's basically what he says. he just doesn't actually know better. "spreading our memes, organizing on the internet."

aha, no.
not at all. they do not understand memes and that's fairly self evident in this vid too.

good job to Vice there for getting this done, getting it fast, and letting them talk. these kind of interviews and discussions are what i want to see. like okay, sure, there's a spin to it. but there isn't any way to spin either of those guys into being reasonable human beings.
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"Doesn't know better"

What are they, children now?

They know exactly what they're spreading.
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Wanglicious posted...

"Jewish communists and criminal n******."
see, that's one of the things if no protests existed, you would've heard more of. this is why i know they weren't close, this is the kind of language you'd hear from them and so much worse. and that would've been for everyone to see, hear, and realize just how incredibly bigoted they are.

if someone didn't already know these people were bigots, this line would not convince them
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Fine people though

I wonder if the white supremacists offered Trump a speaking spot at a rally if he would accept?
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I also agree with the take that today's biggest winner is Sean Spicer
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One last thought before bed

The Allies really should have gotten a permit for Normandy
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"So you're the true non-violent protesters?"

"I'm not even say that we're non violent. I'm say that we didn't aggress, we didn't initiate force against anybody. We're not non-violent, we'll fucking kill these people if we have to."


Yeah these are a group of people who should totally be ignored.


"Now as you can see today, we greatly outnumber the 'Anti-White', 'Anti-American' filth. And at some point, we will have enough power that we will clear them from the streets forever!" "That which is degenerate in white countries, will be removed!"



*Looks at skin color*

Yeah that's not terrifying at all.

Not at all....
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https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnGHendy/status/897555743712391168

Look at those Alt-Left bastards!
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Dark Young Link posted...

"Doesn't know better"

What are they, children now?

They know exactly what they're spreading.

re-read that line and stick to it being direct, that had nothing to do with the content of their message. no, they don't know better. they really did go into this thinking, "this is our time."


and don't be terrified of them. that's the worst thing you can do really, laugh at 'em, mock 'em, give them the ridicule they deserve, but don't be scared of them.
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TheRock1525 posted...

https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnGHendy/status/897555743712391168

Look at those Alt-Left bastards!

reductio ad absurdum

Trying to equate everyone on the alt left with people who fought literal Nazis, is insincere and merely makes it easier to reduce debate. So I don't really like where that's going.

It's absolutely appalling however that these guys get to see actual Nazis parading around in their country like they have any legitimacy. Can't imagine how that must feel.
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Wanglicious posted...

and don't be terrified of them. that's the worst thing you can do really, laugh at 'em, mock 'em, give them the ridicule they deserve, but don't be scared of them.

Don't be afraid of the group that slaughtered people of my race because they were born? Okay, sure.

I don't find myself able to laugh at something that isn't funny. I'd rather have my boot on their neck.

But oh I suppose that makes me "just like them".
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But do you not see how your words look like excuses, Wang?

"They didn't know better." Grown ass men "not knowing better". Who's to say the same can't be said about ISIS? "They think it's their time." Yeah, and their time involved hanging men on the street because they had the wrong amount of melatonin in them.
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You absolutely have the right to be very angry about their existence DYL.
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Wanglicious posted...

Dark Young Link posted...

"Doesn't know better"

What are they, children now?

They know exactly what they're spreading.

re-read that line and stick to it being direct, that had nothing to do with the content of their message. no, they don't know better. they really did go into this thinking, "this is our time."


and don't be terrified of them. that's the worst thing you can do really, laugh at 'em, mock 'em, give them the ridicule they deserve, but don't be scared of them.

It is hard to laugh at someone that is threatening to eradicate large swaths of people from the country because they aren't white, or are white but Jewish, or are white and not Jewish but don't agree with them. Their history, recent and otherwise, along with their own words demonstrate that they aren't here just for a "free exchange of ideas".
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MenuWars posted...

Trying to equate everyone on the alt left

...there...is no alt-left. That's a made up term fed to Trump by the people who would defend the rallies from this weekend.
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I'm not just mad at their existence.

I'm mad at everyone who is okay with what they do.

I'm mad at the people who are okay siding with nazis "Because liberals are mad".

I'm mad at the people who tolerate nazis "Because the left are bad too!"

I'm mad at the people who don't care about the nazis because they aren't in the crossfire.

I'm mad that we have a "president" who literally doesn't give a fuck about any of his people, outside of his base.

I'm mad that so many people pretend to have a decent bone in their bodies, while insisting that there's not a problem.

....

This is what my life has come to, it seems.
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Trump and all these people puffing out their chest at us like we're denigrating them by calling them the alt-right, like we came up with this term to slander them.

Uh...that's how they refer to themselves. They call themselves the alt-right. That's an actual thing.
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http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/04/timeline-anti-fascists-nazi-punching/

Interesting read and shows the escalation we're currently seeing.
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Jakyl25 posted...

MenuWars posted...

Trying to equate everyone on the alt left

...there...is no alt-left. That's a made up term fed to Trump by the people who would defend the rallies from this weekend.

You know what I mean, it's like showing a picture of captain america punching red skull and going look this our political party.

I'll apologise for using the term Alt Left though, it was merely in response to Rock's post.
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DYL, don't get mad at Wang's words.

Just laugh at them.

Wanglicious posted...

and don't be terrified of them. that's the worst thing you can do really, laugh at 'em, mock 'em, give them the ridicule they deserve, but don't be scared of them.

I was gonna sleep but this stuff won't let me.

It's not THEM that I'm afraid of myself; it's their IDEAS. I don't have the faith that you do that the vast majority people will hear these ideas and write them off as the garbage ideas they are.

It's happened far too many times in human history to think it won't happen again.

Especially when you have the fucking POTUS out there talking about how legit their rally was before these big mean leftist thugs came at them, ignoring permits like real scumbags.
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MenuWars posted...

I'll apologise for using the term Alt Left though, it was merely in response to Rock's post.

I mean, you're not offending anyone by misusing it. Because it describes no one, and you didn't ascribe it to anyone in particular
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Jakyl25 posted...

Wanglicious posted...

and don't be terrified of them. that's the worst thing you can do really, laugh at 'em, mock 'em, give them the ridicule they deserve, but don't be scared of them.

I was gonna sleep but this stuff won't let me.

It's not THEM that I'm afraid of myself; it's their IDEAS. I don't have the faith that you do that the vast majority people will hear these ideas and write them off as the garbage ideas they are.

It's happened far too many times in human history to think it won't happen again.

Especially when you have the fucking POTUS out there talking about how legit their rally was before these big mean leftist thugs came at them, ignoring permits like real scumbags.

Also feel free to be afraid of them as well because they have a loose grasp of morality and are heavily armed.

They're justifying murdering a woman because she was on the other side. They say they'll do it again, and promise violence and "cleansing".

Somehow pointing and laughing while they plow through another crowd of people doesn't seem like it is going to discourage them.
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To rebut your fears Jakyl, each time those ideas have made it past the first stage of "nationalism approaching full blown racism" it's been because of free media blackout and propaganda. As soon as you open up discourse the vast majority always walks away from it.

It's when all your fed is lies and there's no availability for dissent that it becomes truly nightmarish. You get told something enough and it'll seep in eventually if it's not challenged.
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I feel like it's literally been the same exact cycle of Wang posts and 4 anti-Wang posts ad infinitum for the last 3 topics, never changing and never going anywhere.

Why bother?

MenuWars posted...

To rebut your fears Jakyl, each time those ideas have made it past the first stage of "nationalism approaching full blown racism" it's been because of free media blackout and propaganda. As soon as you open up discourse the vast majority always walks away from it.

It's when all your fed is lies and there's no availability for dissent that it becomes truly nightmarish. You get told something enough and it'll seep in eventually if it's not challenged.

That might be true when you blow it up to full blown nationalism, but for pure institutional racism, it doesn't take that. See: Segregation

Also there are far too many people who, BY CHOICE, get that media blackout you mention and make personal efforts to close discourse.
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MenuWars posted...

To rebut your fears Jakyl, each time those ideas have made it past the first stage of "nationalism approaching full blown racism" it's been because of free media blackout and propaganda. As soon as you open up discourse the vast majority always walks away from it.

It's when all your fed is lies and there's no availability for dissent that it becomes truly nightmarish. You get told something enough and it'll seep in eventually if it's not challenged.

Well, Fox's "entertainment" division is essentially running a propaganda operation to launder Trump's completely unacceptable comments. I'm sure in a few days when the polls come out you'll have 25-30% of the country saying "oh, maybe Trump didn't really say it in the best way, but his point was basically right!" (Whereas I'd guess 95%+ of the country would react to the video I posted earlier with disgust).
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Like I disagree with a lot of Wang's points but he is right that in a free ideas market it's much harder for these irrational ideas to gain traction. It's part of why I dislike the way the militant side of the left dismisses any opposition as Nazi, Fascist, Misogynistic, Racist. Because it gives people chance to manipulate them in the echo chambers they run to after speaking their minds.

Well I can't express my ideas here, so I'll go here to express them, then all it takes is someone full of hate to slowly twist away at it until they fall in line.

Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, most people I would hope are smart enough to go, well fuck you guys too, but some aren't.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

MenuWars posted...

To rebut your fears Jakyl, each time those ideas have made it past the first stage of "nationalism approaching full blown racism" it's been because of free media blackout and propaganda. As soon as you open up discourse the vast majority always walks away from it.

It's when all your fed is lies and there's no availability for dissent that it becomes truly nightmarish. You get told something enough and it'll seep in eventually if it's not challenged.

Well, Fox's "entertainment" division is essentially running a propaganda operation to launder Trump's completely unacceptable comments. I'm sure in a few days when the polls come out you'll have 25-30% of the country saying "oh, maybe Trump didn't really say it in the best way, but his point was basically right!" (Whereas I'd guess 95%+ of the country would react to the video I posted earlier with disgust).

Yeah that's basically the sort of thing both my recent posts attempted to address. But the good news is you guys have a billion other channels that aren't doing that.

But say, hmmm, say the superbowl half time show was presented by Fox, then you'd have reason to fear. (I'm assuming Fox is just a news channel and doesn't actually show the Superbowl if it does feel free to panic)
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MenuWars posted...

It's part of why I dislike the way the militant side of the left dismisses any opposition as Nazi, Fascist, Misogynistic, Racist

Sure, it's important to expand language and use better descriptors, or else you end up like Trump where everything is either "the best" or "sad." Especially after seeing REAL NAZIS, it should give anyone pause before they start calling, say, Mitch McConnell a Nazi.
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MenuWars posted...

But say, hmmm, say the superbowl half time show was presented by Fox, then you'd have reason to fear. (I'm assuming Fox is just a news channel and doesn't actually show the Superbowl if it does feel free to panic)

I have bad news for you

(But no it's actually not that bad. The main Fox channel that shows football isn't really tied to the News channels)
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