Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 125: Her Name Is Heather Heyer.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Well, most people don't watch Fox, but it's the main source of news for a pretty significant portion of the population (it's one of three major cable news channels). If they're running with a particular narrative it will likely color how, I don't know, 20-30% of the country view an issue. They're not going to make the whole country accept racism as okay, but they're certainly a big part of the reason Trump's support hasn't totally collapsed (and why his base is able to rationalize away most of the dumpster fire).
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Also the existence of other Fox networks beyond Fox News seems like a really odd thing to not be aware of? Are you a lifetime cord cutter maybe?
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Menu is a Brit iirc
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Jakyl25 posted...

Also the existence of other Fox networks beyond Fox News seems like a really odd thing to not be aware of? Are you a lifetime cord cutter maybe?

<<English. Which is why some of my views of culture clash heavily I think.
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Well congrats, you argue enough like an American that I never noticed

Take that as you will
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Let's see, there's

Fox
Fox News
Fox Business
Fox Sports 1
Fox Sports 2
FX
FXX
Fox Movie Channel

And then also bunch of regional Fox Sports channels (I get Fox Sports Detroit, for example)
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I read a lot and like to stay informed, especially since Brexit and Social Media being basically consumed by US culture, US Politics means much more to me these days.

If Google translate didn't suck I'd follow a lot of Russian and Chinese stuff too.
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Dark Young Link posted...

Don't be afraid of the group that slaughtered people of my race because they were born? Okay, sure.

I don't find myself able to laugh at something that isn't funny. I'd rather have my boot on their neck.

But oh I suppose that makes me "just like them".

violence is violence, that may well put you two in the same camp, yes. that's not a reasonable or rational statement, that's purely emotional and you gotta get through that. look, you don't laugh, mock, and ridicule them because they said something funny, you do that because they're a joke and don't deserve to be feared. fear is power and if you give them one you give the other. by all means, sleep it off. but there's no need to give 'em that.

Dark Young Link posted...

"They didn't know better." Grown ass men "not knowing better". Who's to say the same can't be said about ISIS? "They think it's their time." Yeah, and their time involved hanging men on the street because they had the wrong amount of melatonin in them.

that's why i told you to fucking read the posts. -_-
Wanglicious posted...

and that interview with the Daily Stormer guy is confirming exactly what i was saying and i'm happy to see it from the horse's mouth so you guys don't have to think i'm just BS'ing my bio of them/what they genuinely thought. i said earlier that they legitimately thought this was their time and that's basically what he says. he just doesn't actually know better. "spreading our memes, organizing on the internet."

yes.
he doesn't know better.
he IS that trapped in his own world to think this is their time. that's not some sort of excuse, THAT'S LITERALLY WHAT IT IS. he does not understand better. he is not capable of reaching a different conclusion from the one he has. all of his knowledge has gotten him to the singular conclusion that this time they'll win. he does not know better.

what are you adding to those words that makes you think it's anything but exactly what's stated?
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I knew they were a big deal thanks to the Simpsons and Family Guy, but I figured there'd be like specific sports network or something.
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I think DYL thinks it's unbelievable for anyone to be that blind about the company they keep
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LordoftheMorons posted...

I'm sure in a few days when the polls come out you'll have 25-30% of the country saying "oh, maybe Trump didn't really say it in the best way, but his point was basically right!"

yeah uh....
...it's gonna be way higher than that.

Jakyl25 posted...

It's not THEM that I'm afraid of myself; it's their IDEAS. I don't have the faith that you do that the vast majority people will hear these ideas and write them off as the garbage ideas they are.

it feels weird that i'm the optimist in this scenario, i gotta say.
i'm not sure what it would take to convince you really; their ideas don't work in today's society. they're fundamentally detached, so much so that they have to go militant. and with the statements he said there, he effectively said "I am a terrorist." don't be surprised if the FBI comes knocking on his door and his organization is declared a domestic terrorist group because that's what he should be labeled as.
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Also did you guys get to see all the feedback when Trump visited Scotland and he said he was loved there? One of the funniest things I've seen on Social Media.
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Wanglicious posted...

that's not a reasonable or rational statement, that's purely emotional and you gotta get through that.

There's nothing irrational about wanting to defend yourself from people that would kill you, IMO
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MenuWars posted...

Also did you guys get to see all the feedback when Trump visited Scotland and he said he was loved there? One of the funniest things I've seen on Social Media.

He has the best golf course
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Wanglicious posted...

don't be surprised if the FBI comes knocking on his door and his organization is declared a domestic terrorist group because that's what he should be labeled as.

But then who controls the FBI?

EDIT: To be clearer, that hypothetical assurance isn't enough for me when the men at the top of the chain of command for these things are their allies.
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Jakyl25 posted...

MenuWars posted...

Also did you guys get to see all the feedback when Trump visited Scotland and he said he was loved there? One of the funniest things I've seen on Social Media.

He has the best golf course

Scots insults for days it was joyous.
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I read "the fucking posts", them being idiot manchildren doesn't prevent them from murdering people.

I don't care what kind of world they're in, it's a world that cannot exist with decent people in it.

Emotional? You damn right I'm emotional! Because unlike someone, I don't think people dying is a laughing matter. -.-
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And no, it's not weird that you're optimistic in this situation.


Wanglicious posted...

i mean i pass enough that i'd avoid the bullet.

Like I said, it's not your problem.
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Like, Trump even hedged today on whether or not the driver that killed Heather Heyer should be labeled a terrorist.

If the President is unwilling to call them terrorists, I have my doubts that the FBI will take it to that level.
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Wanglicious posted...

violence is violence, that may well put you two in the same camp, yes.

yikes this is a bad take, even for you
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oh, that's another difference between us on this, jakyl.
i don't think FBI has a problem at all with that.

or Congress, state officials, and the many other people in power, for that matter. trump is very much so on his own here.

Dark Young Link posted...

Like I said, it's not your problem.

yeah, now read the rest of that post too. i might pass. i've got family that wouldn't. just go to bed, overly emotional arguments never make sense.
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Dark Young Link posted...

And no, it's not weird that you're optimistic in this situation.


Wanglicious posted...

i mean i pass enough that i'd avoid the bullet.

Like I said, it's not your problem.

I'm white as they come and I'll come stand on their necks with you, man.

(Actually I'm 1/8 Native American also but you'd never know and I have no connection to that heritage)
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He reminds me of Vlado, sprouting this "You are what you hate" nonsense.
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Wanglicious posted...

oh, that's another difference between us on this, jakyl.
i don't think FBI has a problem at all with that.

Hypothetically, what if they did, and left the groups alone, on order of the new FBI Director Gorka or something

Then what?
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Yeah that was a blatant act of terrorism, the main difference is global terrorist organisations will accept responsibility, whereas the pussy ass domestic ones will simply deny responsibility.

As much as WE KNOW, it was terrorism, it's hard to effectively prove it wasn't one guy going above board, or at least it would be, if he weren't a fucking Nazi >_> and people at the rally were accepting of his actions and trying to justify them.

At that point it becomes really easy, so his lack of fortitude here is just more fuel for the fire. I did see someone post a news report a day or so ago about his father being arrested for being involved with the Klan which I couldn't verify. But if true, it's even worse that he managed to get in and the only reason I didn't check it immediately is because I assumed it would've come up more had it been true.
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if telling him that him committing what would at the very least qualify as attempted murder ("my boot on their neck") could make him possibly be in the same group as them is "a bad take," you've got a warped idea of bad takes. that is not a line to cross. you only do that when you're willing to be just as bad as they are.
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Kenri posted...

Wanglicious posted...

violence is violence, that may well put you two in the same camp, yes.

yikes this is a bad take, even for you

This. They're fucking Nazis. When we're living in a utopia (lol) then you'll have a point until then it's just being irrational in the face of adversity.

Like their ideology is ethnic cleansing, therefore if you are of the ethnicity they want dead, you have every reason to fear them and every reason to kill them first in all honesty.
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Wanglicious posted...

if telling him that him committing what would at the very least qualify as attempted murder ("my boot on their neck") could make him possibly be in the same group as them is "a bad take," you've got a warped idea of bad takes. that is not a line to cross. you only do that when you're willing to be just as bad as they are.

So if my ideology is kill all Wanglicious's and I'm actively advocating for it. You'd be a bad person for trying to stop me?
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Jakyl25 posted...

Hypothetically, what if they did, and left the groups alone, on order of the new FBI Director Gorka or something

Then what?

then we'd have a hell of a time when that leak hits and a new FBI director comes in shortly after that adds Cantwell.
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Wanglicious posted...

if telling him that him committing what would at the very least qualify as attempted murder ("my boot on their neck") could make him possibly be in the same group as them is "a bad take," you've got a warped idea of bad takes. that is not a line to cross. you only do that when you're willing to be just as bad as they are.

I and others are willing to be almost bad as they are, to fight them.

Not to seek them out, just when they try to worm their way into sunlight and puff up
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Wanglicious posted...

yeah, now read the rest of that post too. i might pass. i've got family that wouldn't. just go to bed, overly emotional arguments never make sense.

Again, I've read your post. It makes me question again how many people you're okay with dying before you decide that laughing at this problem isn't going to accomplish anything.


And could you perhaps tone down your passive aggressive insults? I've been compared to a Nazi at least twice. You could at least not talk down to me like a child.
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Wang you are actually wrong here, and no circular argument will take you out of it.
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I just better get that Soros check on time this time
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MenuWars posted...

Like their ideology is ethnic cleansing, therefore if you are of the ethnicity they want dead, you have every reason to fear them and every reason to kill them first in all honesty.

if you shoot the first bullet, if you attack first, you forfeit every defense possible and give them a reason to shoot back, and then shoot first.

are you aware that you're essentially advocating for civil war and are escalating a bad problem?

MenuWars posted...

Wanglicious posted...

if telling him that him committing what would at the very least qualify as attempted murder ("my boot on their neck") could make him possibly be in the same group as them is "a bad take," you've got a warped idea of bad takes. that is not a line to cross. you only do that when you're willing to be just as bad as they are.

So if my ideology is kill all Wanglicious's and I'm actively advocating for it. You'd be a bad person for trying to stop me?

well first off, you do realize i'm a singular person, right?
that a statement like this against a person is very, VERY different than a group? including and especially legally? i mean by all means, if you seriously feel that you literally want me dead, i 100% support you having the freedom to say that.

but you'll simply have to accept the consequences of that too.
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Wanglicious posted...

if you shoot the first bullet, if you attack first, you forfeit every defense possible and give them a reason to shoot back, and then shoot first.

I don't think anyone's talking bullets
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Jakyl25 posted...

Not to seek them out, just when they try to worm their way into sunlight and puff up

This. I wouldn't throw the first punch. But should they try to spread their evil where I live. They'll have to snuff me out before I'd let them.



That's ignoring the fact that they already fired the first shot. If not ages ago, then in the riot in charlottesville.
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It's only a civil war if the civilian populace is made up of enough Nazis I don't think it is. Also I'm not saying you shouldn't be arrested for killing someone, but if people are allowed to advocate publicly for my death and I see them coming, bet your ass I'll strike first. I'd happily go to prison for protecting myself and my loved ones in that instance.

We're not talking about people making threat while they're drunk in a bar or some shit, we're talking about a militarised group of fascist racists... you're also ignoring the fact they could easily be called a terrorist organisation for what they stand for and what they've done, and be legally locked away and attempted to rehabilitate them.

If you allow people calling for genocide to walk the streets armed to the teeth in the same area the people they want dead live, you'd have to be fucking insane to expect them to sit there and wait to die.
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Wang kinda reminds me of a WWE referee in this debate

"It's okay to bring any weapon you want into the match, you won't be DQed until you use it."
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Dark Young Link posted...

Again, I've read your post. It makes me question again how many people you're okay with dying before you decide that laughing at this problem isn't going to accomplish anything.

well you certainly could advocate for getting Cantwell on a terror watch lists, have his group join domestic terrorist groups, check with local officials to see if he's added to them yet. these are absolutely things you should do if you're that afraid.

and when you do get over that, you should laugh at him, mock him, and continue doing what you can to limit him. you're giving him way too much power over you if you're being paralyzed by his statements that much.

Dark Young Link posted...

And could you perhaps tone down your passive aggressive insults? I've been compared to a Nazi at least twice. You could at least not talk down to me like a child.

i'm not insulting you and i'm not being passive aggressive. again, everything is direct. me telling you to go to bed isn't me talking down to you, we both agree you're being way too emotional here. there's nothing to really do when somebody's like that in an argument. it's not a jab at you, it's simply that there isn't much to really say or do and it's late so do what you can to calm down.
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This is pretty cool:

https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/897601573857222656

(Also that biographical fact is now even more relevant)
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Reminder that a couple of dorky, socially awkward teenagers were responsible for mass murder in Columbine.

Just because someone is clueless, delusional, divorced from reality, etc. does not mean they are not dangerous and should just be laughed at instead of taken seriously. It blows my mind that someone would even attempt to make that argument...
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Terror watch list isn't enough. That implies he's still a free man. Though yes, his klan being on the terrorist list would be a step in the right direction.

And again, I don't see the laughing matter in this. And I''ve a pretty morbid sense of humor. But this? No. There's only time I'll laugh in this situation, and it's when they're utterly and completely wiped out.


You've implied that I'm comparable to a nazi at least twice, I fail to see how that's not a grave insult. And excuse me? "Both agree"? You think I'm too emotional. I think I'm still relatively calm, and that no amount of sleep is going to change my overall demeanor regarding this. At the most I may be more or less... considerate with how I express my words.


If I'm "emotional", then it's because the alternative is to be dead.
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In a different twist on this subject, I wonder if there are any legal types irked by the part of Trump's conference where he's like

"Call him a terrorist, call him a murderer, whatever gets the quickest conviction."

Now of course, I think we are all in agreement that the police have the right guy and that he's guilty.

But from a procedural level, is that out of line for a President to say? Sounds like he already tried him.
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Jakyl25 posted...

I and others are willing to be almost bad as they are, to fight them.

so you're willing to be the monster you hate, then?
Dark Young Link posted...

That's ignoring the fact that they already fired the first shot. If not ages ago, then in the riot in charlottesville.

that's a big fear actually, that people would consider charlottesville as "the first shot." if so then i'd expect retaliation, blood for blood. at which point each side will have become fully militant and we're off to the races, pun not intended.

MenuWars posted...

It's only a civil war if the civilian populace is made up of enough Nazis I don't think it is.

so what happens when it's not a nazi?
because that's where this goes. just a protest with those on the right, no nazis. just somebody who's right wing.

and guess where that goes. seriously, escalation and rhetoric like yours does not help.

MenuWars posted...

you're also ignoring the fact they could easily be called a terrorist organisation for what they stand for and what they've done, and be legally locked away and attempted to rehabilitate them.

...are you fucking blind?

Wanglicious posted...

and with the statements he said there, he effectively said "I am a terrorist." don't be surprised if the FBI comes knocking on his door and his organization is declared a domestic terrorist group because that's what he should be labeled as.

i literally said Cantwell should be called one. what he said, what he stands for, puts him in that category, and he should be investigated to see who else might be.

MenuWars posted...

If you allow people calling for genocide to walk the streets armed to the teeth in the same area the people they want dead live, you'd have to be fucking insane to expect them to sit there and wait to die.

what is Skokie.
welcome to free speech.
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Jakyl25 posted...

But from a procedural level, is that out of line for a President to say?

You have to ask?
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Wanglicious posted...

so you're willing to be the monster you hate, then?

I don't hate them because they're violent. "The monster I hate" is killing people because of their race. I would not be doing that (and hopefully not killing anyone at all)
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There is no rhetoric though wang, I'm not saying all the right are bad, I'm saying Nazis are bad, there's a clear distinction and it doesn't imply culpability to unaffiliated factions. You're being intentionally obtuse by trying to turn that into a slippery slope argument, again you're wrong.

If you're seriously expecting people to have to listen to people tell them they're wanted dead and they're a scourge on society with no recourse, you are wrong. No rational person will allow themselves to be continually threatened with eradication.

As others have repeatedly told you, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequence. Nazi's want bloodshed it's part of their base ideology. It's not like comparing comparing a communist to a capitalist, the difference is stark and easy to see when it comes to the amount of personal danger they pose.

I'm all for devil's advocate but you'd soon change your tune if you had a bunch of them gathered around your neighbourhood calling for your head.
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Wanglicious posted...

so what happens when it's not a nazi?
because that's where this goes. just a protest with those on the right, no nazis. just somebody who's right wing.

That's why you draw lines at publicly demonstrated calls for murder

If someone is not doing that, let them have all the free speech in the world
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Actually, you know what?

Let's play ball.

Let's say that, yes. Yes we all decided to go out there and butcher the Nazis without remorse.
(And let us assume that we don't kill anyone innocent by mistake.)

What would you say to that?

What would you do about that?

How long would you mourn for those who advocated genocide?

Hypothetically, of course.
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Ya know Wang I'm just going to go back to glossing over everything you say, I'm literally shocked you compare DYL to a Nazi for wanting to defend himself and instead of making any sort of apology you just double down and invent scenarios where they're not being an active threat.

It's fucking farcical.
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