Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 125: Her Name Is Heather Heyer.

(+) Yeah! (+)

wang hows it feel being labeled a white supremacist sympathizer despite not being white

pretty sure im right (far more sure than the last time i was sure)
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redrocket_pub posted...

Man, I know that, "this is what group X actually believes" is an ancient meme by now, but it might not ever have been more relevant since it was created. Just imagine being one of these people and actually thinking that. Whoops!

yeah, it's the most bizarre aspect of it. that's why i was saying it was stupid to protest the rally, they literally think they're going to get support marching the way they are, acting the way they do. they'd have gotten crazier and crazier without anyone to confront them, feeling emboldened by that, and done some really stupid shit. that'd be them presenting themselves and then the other foot drops. instead we just had both feet come together and make a stupid idea with some really stupid premises behind it turn into a giant, tragic mess that makes everything look bad.
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greengravy294 posted...

wang hows it feel being labeled a white supremacist sympathizer despite not being white

pretty sure im right (far more sure than the last time i was sure)

i mean i pass enough that i'd avoid the bullet. officially am considered white hispanic, though i'm a mutt. for some idea of that: grandma i think was half Chinese, half sister was part indian (the ones who were native in Costa Rica, whatever that is), nephew was part black, niece has a bit more indian blood in her due to her father also being mixed from yet another Central American country, etc.

so pretty weird!
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AL Senate primary results (to replace Sessions):

Moore and Strange advance to a runoff on the Republican side (with 40 and 32% of the vote, respectively)

Real candidate Doug Jones won outright on the Dem side, beating random guy named Robert Kennedy 64-19.
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yeah, it's the most bizarre aspect of it. that's why i was saying it was stupid to protest the rally, they literally think they're going to get support marching the way they are, acting the way they do. they'd have gotten crazier and crazier without anyone to confront them, feeling emboldened by that, and done some really stupid shit.

I'm sorry but I must be misunderstanding your argument. Isn't the second part the very reason the first part SHOULD happen? They've grown bolder because 1) Trump wasn't condemning them and 2) most rational people were just sort of rolling their eyes at the loons for a while.
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Suprak the Stud posted...

yeah, it's the most bizarre aspect of it. that's why i was saying it was stupid to protest the rally, they literally think they're going to get support marching the way they are, acting the way they do. they'd have gotten crazier and crazier without anyone to confront them, feeling emboldened by that, and done some really stupid shit.

I'm sorry but I must be misunderstanding your argument. Isn't the second part the very reason the first part SHOULD happen? They've grown bolder because 1) Trump wasn't condemning them and 2) most rational people were just sort of rolling their eyes at the loons for a while.

Exactly this. Donald Trump getting elected on the back of their rhetoric pretty much told them "hey, the guy in the White House is on OUR side now!" So why would they even remotely stop if people ignored them?
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LordoftheMorons posted...

AL Senate primary results (to replace Sessions):

Moore and Strange advance to a runoff on the Republican side (with 40 and 32% of the vote, respectively)

Real candidate Doug Jones won outright on the Dem side, beating random guy named Robert Kennedy 64-19.

Aw man those polls with No, Not That Robert Kennedy winning handily were FAKE NEWS?

Now this is going to be all the more embarrassing when actual candidate Doug Jones loses in the general election by 50+ points.
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Trump is REALLY supporting Strange, so it's good to see that the best he can manage even in a Republican primary is 32%
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Man that's some background. I barely know my background besides half-Armenian heritage (who knows about Irish background could be some English there)

I just find it amusing that you're so...Wang (best way i can put it but I'm also the type of dude that doesn't argue/debate with people who will debate for EVER i've learned my lesson) when you're being called a neo-nazi supporter and a white supremacist apologist when you're like, not white. How does that even work. Can non-white people become a white supremacist non ironically? That seems pretty bizarre
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Jakyl25 posted...

Trump is REALLY supporting Strange, so it's good to see that the best he can manage even in a Republican primary is 32%

Isn't Roy Moore even worse?
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ExThaNemesis posted...

None of this is worth getting run over by a psycho in his car.

I disagree
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greengravy294 posted...

Man that's some background. I barely know my background besides half-Armenian heritage (who knows about Irish background could be some English there)

I just find it amusing that you're so...Wang (best way i can put it but I'm also the type of dude that doesn't argue/debate with people who will debate for EVER i've learned my lesson) when you're being called a neo-nazi supporter and a white supremacist apologist when you're like, not white. How does that even work. Can non-white people become a white supremacist non ironically? That seems pretty bizarre

I don't think Wang is a Neo Nazi.

But here is an example of a crazy person being a Neo Nazi while also not being white (no, it isn't Clayton Bixby): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tila-tequila-twitter-suspended-neo-nazi_us_58348e5ee4b01ba68ac320f2
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Suprak the Stud posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

AL Senate primary results (to replace Sessions):

Moore and Strange advance to a runoff on the Republican side (with 40 and 32% of the vote, respectively)

Real candidate Doug Jones won outright on the Dem side, beating random guy named Robert Kennedy 64-19.

Aw man those polls with No, Not That Robert Kennedy winning handily were FAKE NEWS?

Now this is going to be all the more embarrassing when actual candidate Doug Jones loses in the general election by 50+ points.

Harry Enten from 538 had a few theories:
1. Bad likely voter screens (turnout was very low)
2. Voters researching candidates late (Jones' numbers increased quite a bit over the past week, though he also got some big name endorsements from Biden and some Alabama Dems)
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Inviso posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Trump is REALLY supporting Strange, so it's good to see that the best he can manage even in a Republican primary is 32%

Isn't Roy Moore even worse?

Probably, I mean he's an Alabama Republican

I know nothing about any candidate there. Just using it as a referendum on the ceiling of people who jump when God Emperor Trump says so
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Inviso posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Trump is REALLY supporting Strange, so it's good to see that the best he can manage even in a Republican primary is 32%

Isn't Roy Moore even worse?

Yeah, he's definitely worse (though it seems he may be a problem for McConnell like Rand and like the Freedom Caucus are for Ryan).

Mitch apparently spent his efforts and PAC money sinking Mo Brooks (who came in third). Brooks is a Freedom Caucus member and all around nutjob.
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But like, Roy Moore was a scumbag I actually knew about LONG before this race. He was one of the token Republicans Bernie Goldberg criticized in his "110 People Who Are Screwing Up America" book, so if a token Republican is bad enough to warrant inclusion...I figured he was a bonafide awful person.
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Jakyl25 posted...

I disagree

Gonna just have to agree to disagree then.
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Moore has been removed* as Chief Justice of Alabama's State Supreme Court twice

*technically he resigned the second time, but all indications are he would have been removed again
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ah. by "stupid shit" i mean chanting more hateful slurs against blacks, anti-semitism on full blast, and having demonstrations with the KKK as friends. i don't mean anything that'd be a direct harm to people. just things that make you realize exactly how far gone these people actually are, in their purest, unfiltered form. wouldn't be long for the other shoe to drop.

what actually happened - someone dying, a dozen or so injured - is probably stronger than what that could've done but i don't think it was worth it. it could've been a funny thing to laugh at where everyone agrees it needs to get hammered and instead turned into a tragic thing to be mad about where there's too many nails to deal with.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

I disagree

Gonna just have to agree to disagree then.

Sure.

I just think any surfacing of Nazis and their ideas into the public sphere must be shut down at any cost.

They are the worst of humanity
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ExThaNemesis posted...

Not to undo any of the good will I built up by blasting Trump last topic, but you guys really haven't heard of Antifa before?

Like you just missed the part where they started violent riots in Berkley just to shut down Milo's speech? Featuring hitting some woman in the head with a pole?

Like I said, there was a time to criticize Antifa and name them and make the public aware of them. But to do it in the same breath as you're criticizing the Nazis who KILLED SOMEONE is fucking poor form.

I'm way behind on the topic and too tired to catch up atm, but in case this wasn't discussed further I was asking "Who are Antifa and how do you identify them?" repeatedly to Ulti and Wang because they seem like a convenient scapegoat that is very easily exaggerated.

Seriously, how do you identify and separate them from your regular anti-Nazi protesters?

I spend a lot of time on Weirdbook (it's a dumb Facebook culture thing), and I see videos of "Antifa" being shared by people across the spectrum, and it's always these super scrawny, terribly spoken, awkward young people who brag about their "training" and their "guns" in such a way that I feel like they can't be real, or there is some sort of bandwagon element going on with kids trying to be cool "bashing fascists".

Seriously, go to Facebook and search "antifa training" and you'll find a bunch of different videos reminiscent of that one fucking LARPing video with the "Magic missile! Magic Missile!" from forever ago.

*shrug*
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greengravy294 posted...

I just find it amusing that you're so...Wang (best way i can put it but I'm also the type of dude that doesn't argue/debate with people who will debate for EVER i've learned my lesson) when you're being called a neo-nazi supporter and a white supremacist apologist when you're like, not white. How does that even work. Can non-white people become a white supremacist non ironically? That seems pretty bizarre

they can be, yes. asians exist in this field too, they're generally "exempt" from any white supremacist lists. even Hitler respected the Japanese so there's precedent there and in terms of testing, society, and financial success, they're at the top. hispanics can also be pretty fucking racist, though it's not really supremacist type views but more mockery of differences. money and power tends to matter more but that's how all third world countries work.
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Yeah, obviously there aren't enough whites to populate the globe so they're generally okay with Asians having Asia

Some may not be okay with Asians integrating into white communities though
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I'm way behind on the topic and too tired to catch up atm, but in case this wasn't discussed further I was asking "Who are Antifa and how do you identify them?" repeatedly to Ulti and Wang because they seem like a convenient scapegoat that is very easily exaggerated.

...wait what, no you didn't.
you specifically said NOT me.

"Can anyone (besides Wang, obvs)..."

i have a few examples, even mentioned one in this topic and that one (because of course i'm answering anyway). i do have a question for you: was the question asked that way because you don't think the other people know much about them and just use them?
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Wanglicious posted...

...wait what, no you didn't.
you specifically said NOT me.

"Can anyone (besides Wang, obvs)..."

I said "can you NAME a prominent Antifa (not Wang)" specifically because Ulti was acting like Antifa is this big well known group, and there's a 0% chance he could.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVxYfbBOPv8

Like seriously dudes, you expect me to believe this group (and there are plenty more videos as bad as this), is as serious and dangerous as actual Nazis? Pretty please come the fuck on.


Edit: I didn't read your post completely before I responded (my kid is 8 months so I'm doing sleep training and basically a zombie right now <_<), but in case I didn't answer this:

Wanglicious posted...

i have a few examples, even mentioned one in this topic and that one (because of course i'm answering anyway). i do have a question for you: was the question asked that way because you don't think the other people know much about them and just use them?

Yeah.
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thats a fair point on asians being exempt, thanks for clarifying because that actually was a genuine actual question

now regardless wang being a white supremacist is kinda lmao to me but i also dont really ever talk here.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Yeah, obviously there aren't enough whites to populate the globe so they're generally okay with Asians having Asia

Some may not be okay with Asians integrating into white communities though

right.
and beauty standards for the more extreme ones tend to be along the lines of things like "even a 10/10 asian would only be like a 6/10 on the white scale."

which technically means they're accepted, just not approved on for race mixing. though Hitler was incredibly supportive of the Chinese and Japanese. quote of his:

"I have never regarded the Chinese or the Japanese as being inferior to ourselves. They belong to ancient civilizations, and I admit freely that their history is superior to our own."


so your range on neo nazis and white supremacists goes from "eh, they're okay, wouldn't have babies with" to "they're better than us."
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Wanglicious posted...

"I have never regarded the Chinese or the Japanese as being inferior to ourselves. They belong to ancient civilizations, and I admit freely that their history is superior to our own."

And black people and Jewish people don't? LOL Hitler
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i have no clue what antifa is but man that video is dorky as fuck. i guess not ALL the weirdos on 4chan turned into alt right shut ins.......some got wealthy and still just were weird (like me, besides the wealth)
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black people were willed into existence by dragonballs when vasco de gama sailed to africa and wanted some dudes to do work for him, shenron just accidentally made them black
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im done shitposting for the night sorry political friends
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Antifa is a thing but equating them to Nazis is a very flagrant use of false equivalence.
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Question for Wang, you said that if everyone just let the Nazis march without resistance, we'd laugh at them and they'd be humilated back into hiding.

Does that viewpoint evolve at all in light of these Trump speeches where you have the President himself hemming and hawing about even saying they're worse than people who knocked a statue over?
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KamikazePotato posted...

Antifa is a thing but equating them to Nazis is a very flagrant use of false equivalence.

Yeah

There's also a lot of grouping in normal protestors with antifa going on
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greengravy294 posted...

black people were willed into existence by dragonballs when vasco de gama sailed to africa and wanted some dudes to do work for him, shenron just accidentally made them black

I can vouch for this.
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Would anyone here disagree that Trump at least SEEMED more pissed off about the Lee statue than he did about a white supremacist killing a person?
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Edit: I didn't read your post completely before I responded (my kid is 8 months so I'm doing sleep training and basically a zombie right now <_<), but in case I didn't answer this:

oh. shit, i thought you were kinda zoning in and out and acting that way out of malice. didn't even think about your newborn. sorry if i was a dick to you then, that's a rough period.

if you want any input on them i don't mind. earlier in this topic i pointed out they're considered a domestic terrorist group by New Jersey (which is something Ulti should know since he lives there but i don't recall ever seeing him mention it); ExTha pointed out the thwarted acid attack a few had (this gained some popularity as it was revealed in a Project Veritas video); i can point you to a former professor (Eric Clanton) who got arrested for chucking bike locks at people's heads, one of which as caught on camera and seriously injured him; there's the Berkeley rally with Milo; there's the Berkeley rally that happened afterwards which involved them shooting fireworks and smoke bombs, i think this is the same rally with the girl who got punched in the face when she was holding a glass bottle wrist down on the neck. though the harassment she got afterwards wasn't very pretty (they found out she did porn). there's also a couple Sargon streams where he did talk to antifa members. and generally speaking anyone here's mostly referring to their antics in the US, not the G20 last month, though that was really bad. Europe in general is just a lot more extreme than us when it comes to rioting.
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tbh the statue thing was pretty dumb but i mean, cars get tipped in sports "celebrations" all the time so vandalism is a pretty whatever thing anyway

thats my hot take
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yeah the thing I compared the statue thing to was pulling down hoops after a big basketball game. it just felt like pointless vandalism, only this one had some symbolic meaning (not much, it's purely reactionary to try to piss off neonazis/"white lives matter" people)

good luck tony - my son didn't sleep 5 hours straight until 2 and a half. those were tough days.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Would anyone here disagree that Trump at least SEEMED more pissed off about the Lee statue than he did about a white supremacist killing a person?

The thing he's most pissed about is that everyone is treating him "unfairly"

(And he definitely cares about that way more than the murder victim).
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I think it was telling that Trump was pissed that the counter-protestors were, to use his words, "changing culture" by toppling the Lee statue

Like, no shit, that's not always a bad thing

And does that imply that the white supremacists are just a natural part of our culture?
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All it takes for evil to succeed is for good to do nothing.

Ergo, protesting Nazis is an absolute, bare minimum necessity.
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transience posted...

good luck tony - my son didn't sleep 5 hours straight until 2 and a half. those were tough days.

This makes me so afraid.
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https://twitter.com/jordanuhl/status/897615846742401024

Sometimes Wikipedia vandalism can be great
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greengravy294 posted...

black people were willed into existence by dragonballs when vasco de gama sailed to africa and wanted some dudes to do work for him, shenron just accidentally made them black

as someone with multiple years experience grading history essays this is not the worst one i've ever seen
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BowserCuffs posted...

All it takes for evil to succeed is for good to do nothing.

Ergo, protesting Nazis is an absolute, bare minimum necessity.

My protest is by withdrawing my support from the President I helped get elected who has allowed them to grow to this point by refusing to demoralize them with a denouncement.

I am absolutely not going out to the streets to wait for one of these psychopaths to have an AR stashed somewhere. Not worth my life.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Question for Wang, you said that if everyone just let the Nazis march without resistance, we'd laugh at them and they'd be humilated back into hiding.

Does that viewpoint evolve at all in light of these Trump speeches where you have the President himself hemming and hawing about even saying they're worse than people who knocked a statue over?

oh i think it'd be more than humiliated but i don't think that aspect is worth argument. how that'd change with Trump's reaction? mmm... i think he'd have an easier time denouncing them but that's because all you'd have is a very high level extreme. but i really don't like that he struggles to name the devil. it's very easy, even in their not-as-extreme form here, to tell they're Nazis by Saturday night. i mean he did say even today that they're bad but this isn't something you need to struggle with. i think Colbert had the best summary when said that this is a softball of softball questions. fyi, if you haven't seen his segment it's pretty good, though you should see the ep anyway because he talks to THE MOOCH in that episode.

at this point i don't think he's really evil about his dumb way of denouncing, but more lazy incompetence in a more "eh, what have they done, who have they harmed" attitude. that might sound stupid but that also sounds incredibly "Trump."
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

transience posted...

good luck tony - my son didn't sleep 5 hours straight until 2 and a half. those were tough days.

This makes me so afraid.

he went to bed at 8pm. he'll sleep until about 6am.

it gets better
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Jakyl25 posted...

Would anyone here disagree that Trump at least SEEMED more pissed off about the Lee statue than he did about a white supremacist killing a person?

he totally did.
i don't know if he's just a big fan of Lee or if this is some warped "I defend our military!" mentality going on but he was absolutely more pissed about the statue than the murder.
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I don't think either. Trump is one of those guys that sees the backlash against the confederacy through the lens of political correctness/attacks on white america/etc. it's not about Lee himself at all. he probably sees the march as something that has legitimate roots and thinks the violence came from people protesting it.
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