Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 120: A Nationally Lampooned Vacation

(+) Yeah! (+)

So the FBI raided Paul Manafort's house out of concern that he might not be forthcoming with all of the documents requested of him.

And now Trump's pals at the National Enquirer, which he has used to spread fake news about his enemies before, are smearing Manafort with a hot scoop from a "White House insider" about a sex scandal.


Hmmmm
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Has he been sexting Bigfoot?
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Wrong tabloid. That's the Weekly World News. The Enquirer is more about trashy celebrity gossip, like how maybe Ted Cruz's dad killed JFK


http://www.nationalenquirer.com/photos/paul-manafort-sex-scandal-mistress/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=ManafortSexScandal
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I love how that article reads like a Full Throttle topic.
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That’s the shocking revelation ofThe National ENQUIRERinvestigation that exposedManafort, 68, as a tawdry adulterer — who wore his wedding ring while romping with his 33-year-old mistress in the bedroom he shares with his wife!

I like to think that full throttle is a better writer than this.
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Also he would replace the word mistress with heifer.
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red sox 777 posted...

Corrik posted...

red sox 777 posted...

Farm owners are so used to the low wages they pay that they refuse to pay the higher wages demanded by American workers. Going from $10/hr to $20/hr (which is probably where you'd need farm labor wages to be to attract Americans) is a 100% increase. Plus, they'll have to provide health insurance, a matching social security contribution, and if Americans are injured on the job, they are ready to sue. In total, we're probably looking at a 150% increase to costs, minimum.

And, I'm not sure $20/hr is enough. You can make almost as much driving an Uber, which is vastly more pleasant. It's driving around in a nice air-conditioned car vs. backbreaking labor in the hot sun.

Now, if we don't allow illegal immigrants to do the farm jobs, eventually wages will stabilize at a rate Americans will accept, once farm owners adapt to the new reality (with a big cut to their profit margins). Or, if they cannot turn a profit at any wage acceptable to Americans, then the farms will mechanize or shut down. If more mechanization is too expensive, we'll end up cutting our farm production and exporting less food. If it's extreme enough a shift, we might become a net importer of food.

Most uber drivers make minimum wage or lose money.

Lose money for tax purposes or actually have negative cash flow?

I mean, I guess the vehicle cost will eat the profits.

After taxes, gas, idle time, car depreciation, etc. Car depreciation and time idling is isually not calculated a lot by people. Some ubder drivers make decent money but they are the minority in it.
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Yeah, most Uber/Lyft drivers don’t make a lot of money after expenses unless they are lucky to live/work in certain cities.

Though Corrik, why should idle time be taken into account? Most people already measure per hour or per day and not per transaction.
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theoretically, it's time they could be doing something else. Everything has an opportunity cost.
But it's improper to only consider that from one profession if you're not doing that for all
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Car depreciation is one thing, but idling is just opportunity cost in what else you could be doing, besides whatever gas that uses but you counted that separately. No one thinks you're making a fixed amount per hour on Uber (sort of the point), but idling isn't a significant direct cost.

That's like saying you won't make as much in tips as a waiter at 3pm versus 7pm. No shit, but that's not a direct cost either.
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Corrik posted...

red sox 777 posted...

Corrik posted...

red sox 777 posted...

Farm owners are so used to the low wages they pay that they refuse to pay the higher wages demanded by American workers. Going from $10/hr to $20/hr (which is probably where you'd need farm labor wages to be to attract Americans) is a 100% increase. Plus, they'll have to provide health insurance, a matching social security contribution, and if Americans are injured on the job, they are ready to sue. In total, we're probably looking at a 150% increase to costs, minimum.

And, I'm not sure $20/hr is enough. You can make almost as much driving an Uber, which is vastly more pleasant. It's driving around in a nice air-conditioned car vs. backbreaking labor in the hot sun.

Now, if we don't allow illegal immigrants to do the farm jobs, eventually wages will stabilize at a rate Americans will accept, once farm owners adapt to the new reality (with a big cut to their profit margins). Or, if they cannot turn a profit at any wage acceptable to Americans, then the farms will mechanize or shut down. If more mechanization is too expensive, we'll end up cutting our farm production and exporting less food. If it's extreme enough a shift, we might become a net importer of food.

Most uber drivers make minimum wage or lose money.

Lose money for tax purposes or actually have negative cash flow?

I mean, I guess the vehicle cost will eat the profits.

After taxes, gas, idle time, car depreciation, etc. Car depreciation and time idling is isually not calculated a lot by people. Some ubder drivers make decent money but they are the minority in it.

That's true, although I don't think it impacts my feeling too much regarding farm labor wages.
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theoretically, it's time they could be doing something else. Everything has an opportunity cost.
But it's improper to only consider that from one profession if you're not doing that for all

But they can’t do something else, it’s not like they can run into Starbucks and make coffee until the next caller. If they wanted to make more money then don’t become an Uber/Lyft driver.

It’s why they calculate per day or per hour and not per transaction.
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And the way to stop farm jobs from being outsourced if illegal immigrants are not allowed to work here is to put up big tariffs on imported food. Then Americans will be able to earn a living wage through farm labor, and it will be paid for largely by the middle class, who will pay more for food.
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https://twitter.com/naomi_schalit/status/895268312950636544

Oh no, it's worse than we thought
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Jesus Christ Trump needs to be 25th amendmented ASAP or we're going to have a nuclear war on our hands.

https://twitter.com/GlennThrush/status/895301998588952581
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Idling time is fair, it's time you need to spend on call, doing nothing else.
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/naomi_schalit/status/895268312950636544

Oh no, it's worse than we thought

Oh my, please no
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fucking furries
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-FFDragon- posted...

fucking furries

The worst kind.
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Not sure what is scary about fire and fury. It's about as vague as possible, leaving maximum room to save face. Everyone already knows that the US can produce fire and fury.
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Please re-read, friend.
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red sox 777 posted...

Not sure what is scary about fire and fury. It's about as vague as possible, leaving maximum room to save face. Everyone already knows that the US can produce fire and fury.

Being vague about red lines is exactly how the other side accidentally steps across them and you get into a war.
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You mean improvisation is scary? The president needs to be able to improvise, and it's not particulary hard to come up with "fire and fury" on the spot. I could do that.

The most threatening thing Trump has done in foreign policy was launching the missiles against Bashar Assad's forces while having dinner with Xi Jinping, and informing him of it during dinner. There's almost no way that wasn't seen as a veiled threat.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

red sox 777 posted...

Not sure what is scary about fire and fury. It's about as vague as possible, leaving maximum room to save face. Everyone already knows that the US can produce fire and fury.

Being vague about red lines is exactly how the other side accidentally steps across them and you get into a war.

That wasn't a red line, any more than NK's weekly promises to unleash nuclear war over the slightest provocation. NK can't cross a red line that doesn't exist.
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Trump didn't say "we will bring down fire and fury in response to a nuclear strike on the US." He said that it would come in response to "any more threats to the United States," something that the North Koreans immediately called his bluff on by threatening Guam. It was an absurd red line given how we know the North Koreans to operate, and necessarily either in the best case undermine Trump's already barely existent credibility on the world stage and in the worst case actually cause military retaliation. Thankfully it appears to have been the former (for now), but that's still really bad.
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Someone find an old Trump tweet about Obama's red line in the sand
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red sox 777 posted...

That wasn't a red line, any more than NK's weekly promises to unleash nuclear war over the slightest provocation. NK can't cross a red line that doesn't exist.

If the world can't take the US's word seriously on matters of foreign policy that's a huge fucking problem (albeit, admittedly, less of a problem than nuclear war).
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Suprak the Stud posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

The more I hear about John Kelly, the more I almost like the guy.

If Trump was removed from any authority, and the decision making was in the hands of Mattis/Kelly/McMaster I would feel infinitely better. Which is a weird thing to say because I understand that would basically be a military coup at that point, and that's typically something that doesn't go well for most countries.

Military Coups do usually happen under these exact circumstances.

"Country with stronger military elects well meaning but overwhelmed populist, makes reckless decisions, has to be taken behind the shed and shot like theyre old yeller"
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Eddv posted...

Suprak the Stud posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

The more I hear about John Kelly, the more I almost like the guy.

If Trump was removed from any authority, and the decision making was in the hands of Mattis/Kelly/McMaster I would feel infinitely better. Which is a weird thing to say because I understand that would basically be a military coup at that point, and that's typically something that doesn't go well for most countries.

Military Coups do usually happen under these exact circumstances.

"Country with stronger military elects well meaning but overwhelmed populist, makes reckless decisions, has to be taken behind the shed and shot like theyre old yeller"

"well meaning"
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Eddv posted...

well meaning

???
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LordoftheMorons posted...

red sox 777 posted...

That wasn't a red line, any more than NK's weekly promises to unleash nuclear war over the slightest provocation. NK can't cross a red line that doesn't exist.

If the world can't take the US's word seriously on matters of foreign policy that's a huge fucking problem (albeit, admittedly, less of a problem than nuclear war).

No reasonable person understood it as a genuine red line, so no credibility will be lost.

Like, asking NK not to threaten? That's like asking someone to stop breathing. It's about as plausible as the German ultimatum to Belgium in 1914. Threatening others is the foundation of the existence of the North Korean state.

There was no way they would comply with that, meaning either it was not a red line but just bluster, or it was an ultimatum designed to offer a pretext for a war. But I think everyone knew it wasn't the latter, from the moment it was said.
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He probably doesnt view himself as a villain!
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And this was precisely Obama's problem with negotiation. He said what he wanted from the start! Then when the other side simply said no, he was left without good options.
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charmander6000 posted...

Yeah, most Uber/Lyft drivers don’t make a lot of money after expenses unless they are lucky to live/work in certain cities.

Though Corrik, why should idle time be taken into account? Most people already measure per hour or per day and not per transaction.

I know someone who tells me I ubered for 4 hours today, and I am like uhhhh weren't you gone for like 6 hours. And she is like well I wasn't taking people anywhere during that time. Lol

I assume she isn't the only one who looks at it that way haha.
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red sox 777 posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

red sox 777 posted...

That wasn't a red line, any more than NK's weekly promises to unleash nuclear war over the slightest provocation. NK can't cross a red line that doesn't exist.

If the world can't take the US's word seriously on matters of foreign policy that's a huge fucking problem (albeit, admittedly, less of a problem than nuclear war).

No reasonable person understood it as a genuine red line, so no credibility will be lost.

Like, asking NK not to threaten? That's like asking someone to stop breathing. It's about as plausible as the German ultimatum to Belgium in 1914. Threatening others is the foundation of the existence of the North Korean state.

There was no way they would comply with that, meaning either it was not a red line but just bluster, or it was an ultimatum designed to offer a pretext for a war. But I think everyone knew it wasn't the latter, from the moment it was said.

"Everyone knew it wasn't credible, so no credibility is lost"?
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https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/895347654431035393

Let the GOP civil war begin
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

red sox 777 posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

red sox 777 posted...

That wasn't a red line, any more than NK's weekly promises to unleash nuclear war over the slightest provocation. NK can't cross a red line that doesn't exist.

If the world can't take the US's word seriously on matters of foreign policy that's a huge fucking problem (albeit, admittedly, less of a problem than nuclear war).

No reasonable person understood it as a genuine red line, so no credibility will be lost.

Like, asking NK not to threaten? That's like asking someone to stop breathing. It's about as plausible as the German ultimatum to Belgium in 1914. Threatening others is the foundation of the existence of the North Korean state.

There was no way they would comply with that, meaning either it was not a red line but just bluster, or it was an ultimatum designed to offer a pretext for a war. But I think everyone knew it wasn't the latter, from the moment it was said.

"Everyone knew it wasn't credible, so no credibility is lost"?

Precisely.
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He definitely feels the axe getting closer to his neck.

I only hope that both he and the traditional republican leadership come out of this covered in piss.
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Peace___Frog posted...

He definitely feels the axe getting closer to his neck.

I only hope that both he and the traditional republican leadership come out of this covered in piss.

I would think most reasonable adults already think the Republican party is full of incompetents, given how they blustered about repealing Obamacare for 7 goddamn years and when the time came to present their alternative it was clear they had absolutely no plan at all.
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Not everyone has been provided that information, unfortunately.
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Not_an_Owl posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

He definitely feels the axe getting closer to his neck.

I only hope that both he and the traditional republican leadership come out of this covered in piss.

I would think most reasonable adults already think the Republican party is full of incompetents, given how they blustered about repealing Obamacare for 7 goddamn years and when the time came to present their alternative it was clear they had absolutely no plan at all.

I'd say most democrats feel that way. And most republicans feel democrats are incompetent. For obvious reasons lol.
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They did have a plan. Straight repeal.
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250 people having 250 plans does not equate to 250 people agreeing on a plan.

Furthermore, there was no need for the Senate to write their bill over a lunch. They had plenty of time to consolidate their ideas.
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red sox 777 posted...

They did have a plan. Straight repeal.

The plan failed though.
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Also how much support does Trump have in congress? Like if impeachment proceedings were ongoing and it looks like he will be impeached, what percentage of people would still vote against it?
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red sox 777 posted...

They did have a plan. Straight repeal.

Let me rephrase - they didn't have a plan they could successfully pass into law.
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red sox 777 posted...

They did have a plan. Straight repeal.

To be fair, their plans before straight repeal was garbage. Republicans want a full repeal, not the garbage they were peddling.
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Corrik posted...

red sox 777 posted...

They did have a plan. Straight repeal.

To be fair, their plans before straight repeal was garbage. Republicans want a full repeal, not the garbage they were peddling.

Source?
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*carrying goalposts* if they don't want a full repeal they're not a republican
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charmander6000 posted...

Also how much support does Trump have in congress? Like if impeachment proceedings were ongoing and it looks like he will be impeached, what percentage of people would still vote against it?

I think he has a decent amount of soft support that's mainly based on the assumption that if Trump goes down they'll go down too. I don't think he has many true believers (especially in the Senate where 2/3 are needed to remove him), so if the political calculus changed so that it looked less bad for them to take him out they would probably be willing to do it.
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