Poll of the Day > Who did it better? Let It Go - Frozen vs Hamilton

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kxl9YkiQn4s

Originally following a different rendition of "Schuyler Defeated" where the senate race was portrayed as being underway rather than over, "Let It Go" featured various characters trying to calm Hamilton down. It notably incorporates lyrics which wound up appearing in "The Election of 1800" (notably some of my favorite lyrics from the show) and was cut because Disney's Frozen made popular a song with a similar name, etc.

However, I put this question to you: Which song is better?
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No comments? I won't let that go!
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Even though I have heard the frozen song WAY to many times, have the freaking lyrics memorized at this point, I still have to vote for Frozen.

Don't even wanna imagine having to sit through Hamilton.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItVdX9ntUug

i like this version
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wolfy42 posted...

Don't even wanna imagine having to sit through Hamilton.

Don't be a philistine.
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Zeus posted...

wolfy42 posted...

Don't even wanna imagine having to sit through Hamilton.

Don't be a philistine.

Hey, I liked Cabaret, Phanton of the Opera and Chicago. I can enjoy a good play/musical.

But not Hamilton. Nope.

Also not The Lion King (I pretended to be sad when we didn't get to go, but inside...I was SOOOO happy).

Seriously though, Hamilton sounds like torture to me. If there is a hell, and I somehow deserved to go there (I'm not worshiping any gods so yeah...could happen), I'd probably be forced to watch that for eternity (then again even being forced to watch Bill and Teds excellent adventures for eternity would eventually become torture.....probably).
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wolfy42 posted...

Hamilton sounds like torture to me.

It's literally all just musical numbers. Even the segues -- which didn't make the soundtrack (ie, news that John Laurens died) -- are done in a song-like manner. Ever listened to or seen Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat? It's kinda like that, except without the cringey genre-shifts to country and calypso.

Honestly, you don't really need to watch the thing -- although it's a tremendous spectacle with some great choreography -- you could just listen to the entire soundtrack to get the story. Granted, it doesn't segue as smoothly as Joseph ("My Shot" to "Story of Tonight" in particular is rough, but it's meant to imply that they've been drinking for several hours after the introductions), but it comes close.
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wolfy42 posted...

Zeus posted...

wolfy42 posted...

Don't even wanna imagine having to sit through Hamilton.

Don't be a philistine.

Hey, I liked Cabaret, Phanton of the Opera and Chicago. I can enjoy a good play/musical.

But not Hamilton. Nope.

I'd tend to agree. I'm a fan of musicals, but no matter how hard some people fellate Hamilton, every single time I learn something new about it, it just makes me like it even less than I did before. I can't imagine a scenario where I'd actually want to go see it, let alone enjoy it if I did.


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

I'd tend to agree. I'm a fan of musicals, but no matter how hard some people fellate Hamilton, every single time I learn something new about it, it just makes me like it even less than I did before. I can't imagine a scenario where I'd actually want to go see it, let alone enjoy it if I did.

Then don't see it. Listen to the soundtrack. You can hear the whole thing on Youtube. I can understand your skepticism. Had I not gotten into it early and unexpectedly (as it was part of a NPR bit), I might have seen the hype and been all like, "Nope!"

However, I heard a clip from "The Schuyler Sisters" on NPR then, because I didn't get the name, spent over an hour trying to find the song to hear the rest. I even went to the Broadway site and looked through all of the listings but, each time I saw Hamilton, I figured it couldn't be that. Then after finding it, I listened to the songs mostly out of order before finding a list.

And now? Probably my favorite musical album. It also got me to check out Bring It On: The Musical, which I also loved. (I still need to check out In the Heights.)
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Zeus posted...

Then don't see it. Listen to the soundtrack.

I think you're missing the point. The music is the part I don't see myself enjoying.


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Zeus posted...

Then don't see it. Listen to the soundtrack.

I think you're missing the point. The music is the part I don't see myself enjoying.

Why, what have you actually listened to at this point excluding (presumably) "Let It Go"?
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I went back and listened to all of it (only made it half way the first time).

It's not horrible. I have heard other parts of Hamilton though that seemed like rap or cursing or something, it's been awhile, but I KNOW that I didn't like what I heard back then.

That being said, Let it go isn't horrible. To be honest though, that type of music/singing/musical performance only really works for me live. There is something about feeling the emotions, and seeing the performers that brings it to life.

So yeah, I would have to experience it live to really know if I could like it. I'll try and keep a more open mind about parts of Hamilton, but I still would not go see it. I may look up other songs and see if I like them online though.

I didn't expect to like Chicago at all for instance, but really enjoyed it. That being said, I don't like rap (at least not traditional, some music rap is ok) so if many parts of Hamilton are rap or rap light, that isn't going to work for me.
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Zeus posted...

Why, what have you actually listened to at this point excluding (presumably) "Let It Go"?

ParanoidObsessive posted...

every single time I learn something new about it, it just makes me like it even less than I did before.

Whenever I read a review that describes what the music is like, it never sounds like something I want to hear. Whenever someone gushes about it and describes all the aspects of it that they love, they describe things I either don't care about or actively dislike.

At the end of the day, I don't NEED to listen to it, because a) I have no vested interest in objectively proving or disproving whether or not I would like it (or ultimately convincing other people why I should or shouldn't), and b) because we live in an era of functionally near-infinite media availability. There will not be enough hours in my lifetime even if I lived to be ten times as old as I'm going to to listen to/watch/read every single form of media I might potentially be interested in. So if something can't reach out and grab me by the balls almost immediately from the start, I simply can't be bothered to care about it. I don't feel the need to repeatedly force myself to wade through rivers of shit on the off-chance that some of the shit might turn out to be delicious chocolate pudding.

(And every time I have to write a post like this, that's another few minutes of not reading/watching/playing/listening to something subtracted from my lifetime total, because this is time being devoted to something else.)

Does this mean I might miss something I might otherwise have liked? Sure. But that's going to happen countless times no matter what I do, because the world we live in now makes it literally impossible to experience every single thing worth experiencing without immortality and a time machine.

So yeah. I'm not going to say the music is objectively terrible and that anyone who likes it is wrong to do so, but based on everything I've ever heard about it it doesn't sound like something I would be interested in and I have no real motivation to ever listen to it to find out whether I'm right or wrong.

Maybe if I'd actually heard a single review up to this point comparing the music to a musical I actually like, or describing it in terms that actually sound appealing, or even someone who knows we well enough and whose opinion I trust (ie, absolutely no one on PotD or the Internet in general) said to me "No, really, you'll like this"otherwise gave me a SINGLE reason to actually be optimistic about it I might be interested or open enough to bother listening to tracks on YouTube or elsewhere.

But like I said, "Every single time I learn something new about it, it just makes me like it even less than I did before." Every time I read a review, it was basically like "Oh, that's something I didn't know or realize about the show before! Now it sounds even LESS like something I want to listen to."

It's not my style, it's not my scene, it's not my sound. And there's absolutely no reason why it needs to be. There is literally nothing on Earth from across the entire span of human history that will appeal to all people all the time. Art is subjective, and so is entertainment - and that means there are always going to be people who dislike or are apathetic towards things that you personally love.


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Though if it makes you feel any better, I didn't care about Frozen, either.


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Whenever I read a review that describes what the music is like, it never sounds like something I want to hear. Whenever someone gushes about it and describes all the aspects of it that they love, they describe things I either don't care about or actively dislike.

So rather than taking 5 minutes to listen to a few songs, you've taken 10 or 15 to read reviews? Kind of a backward approach.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

(And every time I have to write a post like this, that's another few minutes of not reading/watching/playing/listening to something subtracted from my lifetime total, because this is time being devoted to something else.)

Then save it so you can c/p. Of course, you probably spent longer on that post than it'd take to listen a song or two >_>

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Maybe if I'd actually heard a single review up to this point comparing the music to a musical I actually like, or describing it in terms that actually sound appealing, or even someone who knows we well enough and whose opinion I trust (ie, absolutely no one on PotD or the Internet in general) said to me "No, really, you'll like this"otherwise gave me a SINGLE reason to actually be optimistic about it I might be interested or open enough to bother listening to tracks on YouTube or elsewhere.

#Hurt

But PO, don't you fret, I'll win you over yet! (Perhaps I'll write reviews under a pseudonym / You'll see what I can do to them.) And, if that fails, we'll just have to have a "put on the glasses!" moment #TheyLive

ParanoidObsessive posted...

It's not my style, it's not my scene, it's not my sound. And there's absolutely no reason why it needs to be. There is literally nothing on Earth from across the entire span of human history that will appeal to all people all the time. Art is subjective, and so is entertainment - and that means there are always going to be people who dislike or are apathetic towards things that you personally love.

While everybody has preferences, the day that you stop trying things is the day you start shouting at people to stay off your lawn and contemplate sticking balloons onto your house to move from your neighborhood. You don't want that, do you? To be stuck with a boy scout and a talking dog on some strange island?!
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I listened to Hamilton, if I had to describe it it's like the geek topics as sound.
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Zeus posted...

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Whenever I read a review that describes what the music is like, it never sounds like something I want to hear. Whenever someone gushes about it and describes all the aspects of it that they love, they describe things I either don't care about or actively dislike.

So rather than taking 5 minutes to listen to a few songs, you've taken 10 or 15 to read reviews? Kind of a backward approach.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

(And every time I have to write a post like this, that's another few minutes of not reading/watching/playing/listening to something subtracted from my lifetime total, because this is time being devoted to something else.)

Then save it so you can c/p. Of course, you probably spent longer on that post than it'd take to listen a song or two >_>

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Maybe if I'd actually heard a single review up to this point comparing the music to a musical I actually like, or describing it in terms that actually sound appealing, or even someone who knows we well enough and whose opinion I trust (ie, absolutely no one on PotD or the Internet in general) said to me "No, really, you'll like this"otherwise gave me a SINGLE reason to actually be optimistic about it I might be interested or open enough to bother listening to tracks on YouTube or elsewhere.

#Hurt

But PO, don't you fret, I'll win you over yet! (Perhaps I'll write reviews under a pseudonym / You'll see what I can do to them.) And, if that fails, we'll just have to have a "put on the glasses!" moment #TheyLive

ParanoidObsessive posted...

It's not my style, it's not my scene, it's not my sound. And there's absolutely no reason why it needs to be. There is literally nothing on Earth from across the entire span of human history that will appeal to all people all the time. Art is subjective, and so is entertainment - and that means there are always going to be people who dislike or are apathetic towards things that you personally love.

While everybody has preferences, the day that you stop trying things is the day you start shouting at people to stay off your lawn and contemplate sticking balloons onto your house to move from your neighborhood. You don't want that, do you? To be stuck with a boy scout and a talking dog on some strange island?!

*Starts buying balloons*
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Zeus posted...

So rather than taking 5 minutes to listen to a few songs, you've taken 10 or 15 to read reviews? Kind of a backward approach.

No, it's more like, during the course of my life, I have heard people on shows I watch mention the show, or I've been reading some article or another that brings it up, or I've otherwise passively been exposed to reviews that give me a pretty good picture of what most of the musical is probably like (and I may even have heard some of those people attempting to sing a song they personally liked from the musical). Whereas going looking for the music would require a more active commitment on my part that isn't likely to happen when I don't give a single flying fuck about the musical and literally nothing I've heard about it has made me want to care.

"Man, it's so good! I loved it!" isn't a statement that's going to motivate me to care. "You really should listen to it because culture!" is usually going to make my apathy turn more to distasteful spite because it sounds way too pretentious and pushy.

If you want me to like it, tell me exactly what it is about the music I'm supposed to like, and hope I actually care about the same things you do (spoiler: I probably do not).

And again, on the occasions where I've heard or read someone state specifically what they like about the music or what it's like, I've heard literally nothing that would make me want to listen to it and multiple things that would make me not want to listen to it. Sooooo....



Zeus posted...

Then save it so you can c/p. Of course, you probably spent longer on that post than it'd take to listen a song or two.

It hasn't come up in online conversation often enough to warrant it.

If anything, it really just ties into my old "I don't have to eat a dogshit sandwich to know that I won't enjoy eating a dogshit sandwich" argument as to why humans are perfectly capable of judging experiential activities without having to directly experience every single individual example of said experience. Secondary sources and deductive reasoning go a long way towards allowing us to form a coherent picture of things even if we haven't directly experienced them.

If every single secondary source paints a picture of a musical I won't like with music that I won't like, why would I go out of my way to try and listen to it?



Zeus posted...

#Hurt

If it makes you feel any better, the long-time regulars in the Geek topic should feel way more hurt than you about that, since they probably WOULD have at least a passing chance of predicting what I would and wouldn't like based on prior discussions. But I'm not giving them any respect, either.

But honestly, "I know you as a person and I know without a doubt this is something you would like"-style arguments really only work for about four people in the entire world for me. My GF and a couple of my really, really good friends probably know me well enough to make recommendations that I will absolutely trust without reservation. Everyone else's recommendations tend to be taken tentatively at best, and not without a bit of secondary fact-checking.



Zeus posted...

But PO, don't you fret, I'll win you over yet! (Perhaps I'll write reviews under a pseudonym / You'll see what I can do to them.)

All you really have to do is convince me that the entire musical sounds like a 1980s New Wave dance club soundtrack or otherwise calls to mind other musicals that I actually LIKE to increase my odds of giving in.

But realistically, HOW much of the musical would you say falls under either "rap" or "spoken word" as a musical genre?


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Zeus posted...

While everybody has preferences, the day that you stop trying things is the day you start shouting at people to stay off your lawn and contemplate sticking balloons onto your house to move from your neighborhood.

Let's be honest, I've been shouting at people to get off my lawn for almost 30 years now.

And I didn't like Up, either. Pixar's made precisely one movie in their entire history that I kinda sorta liked. And that was less about the movie and more about my pre-existing interests and biases.

But you're confusing two concepts there. Being willing to stay open-minded and open to new ideas and experiences is not the same as feeling a crushing existential obligation to experience EVERY new thing regardless of context so long as even a single other person claims that they enjoyed it.

If I didn't start watching My Little Pony when half the Internet started masturbating over it (and you can substitute Avatar/Adventure Time/Steven Universe/Gravity Falls/etc here if you like), and I hated 90% of the music my peers in high school listened to all the time, I'm probably not going to be all that susceptible to peer pressure now. Especially when I'm a misanthrope who hates most of my peers anyway.



Zeus posted...

You don't want that, do you? To be stuck with a boy scout and a talking dog on some strange island?!

The boy not so much, but being on a strange island with a talking dog sounds fucking awesome.

Maybe you can teach the dog to sing and get him to sing songs from Hamilton to me. Maybe then I'd listen.


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

"Man, it's so good! I loved it!" isn't a statement that's going to motivate me to care. "You really should listen to it because culture!" is usually going to make my apathy turn more to distasteful spite because it sounds way too pretentious and pushy.

If you want me to like it, tell me exactly what it is about the music I'm supposed to like, and hope I actually care about the same things you do (spoiler: I probably do not).

And again, on the occasions where I've heard or read someone state specifically what they like about the music or what it's like, I've heard literally nothing that would make me want to listen to it and multiple things that would make me not want to listen to it. Sooooo....

The album is a self-encapsulated story. That's great by itself. Most musical albums require context. Even Wicked, which is a pretty good album, has scenes bridging the songs so they make sense. Phantom of the Opera even more so.

But, just out of curiosity, what musicals -- if any -- do you even like?

ParanoidObsessive posted...

If anything, it really just ties into my old "I don't have to eat a dogshit sandwich to know that I won't enjoy eating a dogshit sandwich" argument as to why humans are perfectly capable of judging experiential activities without having to directly experience every single individual example of said experience. Secondary sources and deductive reasoning go a long way towards allowing us to form a coherent picture of things even if we haven't directly experienced them.

The problem with that argument is minimum investment and maximum harm. For instance, while somebody might not know for certain that stabbing themselves in the gut won't feel good, the actual harm is pretty well understood (ditto for the dog shit). Likewise, if you're going to spent $300 or $400 on something, that's a sizable investment so you want to know whether you'd like it beforehand. Compare that to this, which has no investment except a minimal use of time -- which can be used while doing anything else because it's music -- and no real potential for harm.

Personally, while the vast majority of music will never appeal to me, half the time I click peoples' links anyway to hear a bit of a song just out of curiosity. Sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

All you really have to do is convince me that the entire musical sounds like a 1980s New Wave dance club soundtrack or otherwise calls to mind other musicals that I actually LIKE to increase my odds of giving in.

I can't even visualize that so not sure if it relates.
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

But realistically, HOW much of the musical would you say falls under either "rap" or "spoken word" as a musical genre?

Actual rap? About three songs -- the two cabinet battles and "My Shot" (you could also make an argument for "Guns and Ships"). Spoken word? Eh, depends on how you want to define it. There's some talking intermingled into a few of the songs but often it's not just speaking although you could still argue that said portions were spoken word. A good example is "Blow Us All Away" which uses borderline talking in a few places to segue events in the song; granted, it's something that happens in a lot of other musicals as well although this is a bit more egregious.

The kind of "spoken word" is, at times, reminiscent of Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody. Case-in-point might be "Right Hand Man."

"Schuyler Sisters" and "Helpless" both incorporate a few spoken bits (the counterpart to "Helpless," "Satisfied," works in some borderline rapping). The insufferably slow "Burn" is singing only, "Hurricane" is also predominantly just singing. Actually, most of the solo bits are predominantly singing.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

But you're confusing two concepts there. Being willing to stay open-minded and open to new ideas and experiences is not the same as feeling a crushing existential obligation to experience EVERY new thing regardless of context so long as even a single other person claims that they enjoyed it.

No, that's purely a matter of openness especially considering that it's not some tiny fringe thing.
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