Poll of the Day > I haven't consumed any animal products in a week

(+) Yeah! (+)

Smarkil posted...

You would certainly have to cull the cow population. If left to their own devices, cows probably wouldn't survive at all. At least not given how much we've domesticated them. I don't think they have any sort of survival instinct left.

it's not culling in the sense you're thinking when it's planned breeding and killing. There are mass killings of animals for other reasons like disease all the time.

Yes the cattle will die without anyone to feed or care for them because they are confined in pens and feedlots with no natural shelter, water, or food source. They were bred to be killed and raised in such a way that human intervention is necessary. Any domesticated animal left on its own in that scenario wouldn't fare well in that situation.

Just like with cattle, for cats and dogs I support long term population reduction by greatly reduced breeding and repopulation. Less demand for meat = fewer bred animals = fewer killed animals. it's not an overnight solution.

Smarkil posted...

But that's kind of beside the point as they only exist because we made them. That said, do you have a problem with people hunting for meat then? Trophy hunting is obviously gonna be a no-go, but if I go and hunt a deer, theoretically that should be fine then right?

Deer hunting or sustenance hunting is leagues above people buying meat from a grocery store or fast food meat, and I don't have an issue with people hunting properly.
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in new york where i grew up they have lots of deer hunting because if you don't hunt for deer they'll practically become an invasive species and overwhelm the local environment.
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Jen0125 posted...

in new york where i grew up they have lots of deer hunting because if you don't hunt for deer they'll practically become an invasive species and overwhelm the local environment.

which is when culling happens

They do deer, coyote, and boar hunts here. Or they used to do boar hunts. I guess it was ineffective and the boar are too smart for hunters.
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So youre against the cultivating of food?

Not everyone has access to wild game. I have to drive 2+ hours if I want a wild deer. I have to drive 20+ hours if I want wild elk.

Id much rather kill a wild deer or elk four times a year for meat than go to the store and buy the flavorless shit they sell, but its just not practical where I live.
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SmokeMassTree posted...

So youre against the cultivating of food?

No, I'm opposed to factory farming of livestock. I choose to act on that opposition by not consuming animal products.

Humans can easily cultivate food that is non-animal... like plants. In fact, all those animals being raised need to also eat plants. When I have a place with a deck or more windows or a yard it will be back to gardening for me.

SmokeMassTree posted...

Not everyone has access to wild game. I have to drive 2+ hours if I want a wild deer. I have to drive 20+ hours if I want wild elk.

I have access to it but I'm not eating it.

SmokeMassTree posted...

Id much rather kill a wild deer or elk four times a year for meat than go to the store and buy the flavorless shit they sell, but its just not practical where I live.

That's true. You can eat what you want.

I just personally do not support factory farming or raising animals for slaughter, and for me that means not consuming animal products. I'd rather act on my convictions than do something I feel is wrong over and over.
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What do you suggest we do instead of factory farming?

People are never going to stop eating meat, so dont suggest that.

I understand where you are coming from, but it%u2019s just the best way for us to have Fresh meat readily available.
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SmokeMassTree posted...

What do you suggest we do instead of factory farming?

People are never going to stop eating meat, so dont suggest that.

I understand where you are coming from, but it%u2019s just the best way for us to have Fresh meat readily available.

Meat doesn't need to be a part of every single meal. That causes a lot of the demand for meat. You have a sausage biscuit for breakfast, lunchmeat for lunch, steak for dinner. It's seeped into the consciousness that it's not a meal without meat, but that is a very recent development. If people just reduced the amount of meat they ate it would go a long way to reducing factory farming. Also I wouldn't be so sure that people are 'never' going to stop eating meat. It could definitely happen especially if reasonable alternatives like lab grown meat come out.
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SmokeMassTree posted...

What do you suggest we do instead of factory farming?

People are never going to stop eating meat, so dont suggest that.

Some people will stop. more should. For those that don't, reduce meat consumption. If people ate as much meat as they should and no more, it would be a fraction of the current consumption rates. Animals could be raised more humanely and sustainably. Don't just overeat meat for fun or to make some weird point.

Factory farming is also not going away until regulations regarding animal welfare change drastically.

a portion of meat is only three ounces. The recommended maximum intake of red/processed meat for a person is only 500 grams in a week.

SmokeMassTree posted...

I understand where you are coming from, but it%u2019s just the best way for us to have Fresh meat readily available.

that's up to the individual if they feel they can justify eating meat/eggs/dairy even knowing how it is produced. Many of us are not OK with it and opt out.

if deer is only 2 hours away that's really not much in the grand scheme to put in time and source much better meat in a more environmentally and ethically sound manner.

priorities though
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That's fair, I suppose. I'm not personally invested in it, but I can see the logic.
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GhostGiblet posted...

Also I wouldn't be so sure that people are 'never' going to stop eating meat. It could definitely happen especially if reasonable alternatives like lab grown meat come out.

Yeah. That will change things (potentially).

It's an attitude from surrounding culture. In some cultures and following some religion it's abhorrent to eat meat. Some critical examination of meat eating practices combined with increased interest in animal welfare and environmental protection may make eating meat less culturally acceptable. I know for me it's absurd to spend so much time working in animal rescue to just go home and eat a different animal that would have also liked to live. I put spiders and insects outside and do all I can to not hurt creatures and eating meat didn't really jive with that.

But the American attitude of excess is best doesn't help things at all, unfortunately. The USA leads the consumption per capita. 264 pounds of meat consumed per person annually. In India the consumption rate is under ten pounds per person.
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So is Poison Ivy like vegan because she thinks the world doesn't need animals or a carnivore because she loves plants too much to eat them?
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DarkKirby2500 posted...

So is Poison Ivy like vegan because she thinks the world doesn't need animals or a carnivore because she loves plants too much to eat them?

i think she would be a plant hybrid that photosynthesizes for herself

If not, ultimately she would be a vegan or at least eat plant-based. She is a staunch environmentalist against the exploitation of the planet, and eating plant-based is more friendly than eating animal products. Eating plants yourself directly kills fewer plants than eating animals that eat plants for nourishment. Vegan means less plant death. Plants are not static objects, and fruit-bearing plants have evolved parts specifically to be eaten and have seed spread around by animals.

I'd say plant-based fruitarian is most likely. Carnivore makes no sense for her really
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Deer aren't always in season, ok?

In order for me to have enough meat just from deer, I would have to get atleast 5 tags (extremely unlikely unless you have crooked connections), pray that atleast 4 of them are kills, haul it all back ( we're talking 1200 pounds), find a butcher that has the time to cut it all up, pay for that service (not cheap), and then find a way to store it all without it going bad.

It's not realistic.

I'd also have to come across 4 wild deer, idk if you're familiar with hunting but that isn't likely in one trip. On top of that I'd have to find a way to store the first two kills while I'm hunting the next two.

I honestly wish I could hunt for and prepare all of my meals. It's just not an option for most people.
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Don't think anyone said deer are always in season, or that you'd have to exclusively eat deer. Just... the option exists.

The big thing above all else is EAT LESS MEAT (and eggs and dairy). Eat more plants. And eat a variety of food. Monoculture is also harmful.

SmokeMassTree2 posted...

One pound of bacon
Two packages of sausages
6 eggs
Glass of whole milk

that is just gross excess, ok?
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That was between two people and we had lots of left over sausage.

And no, the option doesn't exist and I listed reasons why.
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that's still a lot of meat for two people.

a serving size of bacon is like 2 slices. a pound of bacon is ... 8-10 slices.

how many sausages in 2 packages?


and if you're logging how much meat you're eating but had "lots of leftover sausage" you didn't actually eat two packages of sausage and you're just being an inflammatory troll in foxx's topic to annoy her for no reason. which you're doing anyway posting your meat eating habits in her topic about her not eating meat and sharing her meatless meals.
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Jen0125 posted...

that's still a lot of meat for two people.

a serving size of bacon is like 2 slices. a pound of bacon is ... 8-10 slices.

how many sausages in 2 packages?


and if you're logging how much meat you're eating but had "lots of leftover sausage" you didn't actually eat two packages of sausage and you're just being an inflammatory troll in foxx's topic to annoy her for no reason. which you're doing anyway posting your meat eating habits in her topic about her not eating meat and sharing her meatless meals.

Aww Jen you're a gem
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Pork chop
Beef jerky
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Jen0125 posted...

a serving size of bacon is like 2 slices

Two slices: Meaning if you're going to eat a pack of bacon, you should at least cut it in half first.
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GhostGiblet posted...

but that is a very recent development.

Wat.

GhostGiblet posted...

It could definitely happen especially if reasonable alternatives like lab grown meat come out.

That would still qualify as meat since it's called meat.

RIP_Supa posted...

Two slices: Meaning if you're going to eat a pack of bacon, you should at least cut it in half first.

That makes no sense unless you're using the bacon in something like a chili.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sM8pDH-HMc
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10 pounds of potatoes, 4 pounds of brown rice, 2 pounds of lentils... Cost all of $8 and going to feed me well for many weeks. All that healthy starch and protein. I'm grateful to have a decent place for staples. There's no way to even get 5 chicken breasts for that much here.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f2P5yJFQKw
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Doctor Foxx posted...

10 pounds of potatoes, 4 pounds of brown rice, 2 pounds of lentils... Cost all of $8 and going to feed me well for many weeks. All that healthy starch and protein. I'm grateful to have a decent place for staples. There's no way to even get 5 chicken breasts for that much here.

That must be some really shitty quality of food if you can get all of that for $8.
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You should donate your incisors and canines to someone less fortunate because you're obviously not using them.
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Revelation34 posted...

That must be some really shitty quality of food if you can get all of that for $8.

Plants are inexpensive to eat. Nothing bad about brown rice or lentils nutritionally. Potatoes were on sale. Maybe you don't shop much for unprocessed dry goods.

Zareth posted...

You should donate your incisors and canines to someone less fortunate because you're obviously not using them.

Lol you don't use your incisors or canines to eat either. They exist but not for chewing.

Check out these canine teeth



Used to kill prey and shred flesh. Carnivores gulp down big chunks of their kills.

Let's look at gorilla teeth. They eat 97% fruit and leaves, and 3% insects. No hunting or killing or flesh. They also have well developed molars.



You'll notice huge canines on top and bottom. Much smaller than a carnivore but still noticeable.

Then there are humans...



Those barely pointed little things (and not always pointed or present in the mouth). They're pretty decorative but functionally do little. They are not built well to tear into flesh. Many herbivores have larger canines than humans do. Humans also have well developed molars for chewing plant material. We chew with molars and not with front teeth.

I get the point you're trying to make but human canine teeth are a joke and don't work like that
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What about those of us with very sharp canines, @Doctor_Foxx, ok?
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ClarkDuke posted...

What about those of us with very sharp canines, @Doctor_Foxx, ok?

Like me? I still don't chew with them and didn't when eating meat :p
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Doctor Foxx posted...

ClarkDuke posted...

What about those of us with very sharp canines, @Doctor_Foxx, ok?

Like me? I still don't chew with them and didn't when eating meat :p

Yes, I too have sharp canines, I've found they are great for meats and corn, ok?
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Being a vegan isnt natural my friend.

That said i agree that being a vegetarian can be healthy but eating meat can be just as healthy if you put in the same amount of time into planning a omnivorous diet as you do planning a vegan diet.

ClarkDuke posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

ClarkDuke posted...

What about those of us with very sharp canines, @Doctor_Foxx, ok?

Like me? I still don't chew with them and didn't when eating meat :p

Yes, I too have sharp canines, I've found they are great for meats and corn, ok?

ok. are you ziggi's alt? ok?
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Quol posted...

Being a vegan isnt natural my friend.

That said i agree that being a vegetarian can be healthy but eating meat can be just as healthy if you put in the same amount of time into planning a omnivorous diet as you do planning a vegan diet.

Don't think I said it was? It can be healthy. more countries are beginning to put meats under the bad food list and doing what they can to promote plant based eating for health. The US is going to pay behind there.

Eating meat these days is generally not healthy. Not that meat can't be healthy. Most meat people are eating is portioned too large, processed too much, too high in fat, or it's red meat. Even unprocessed red meat is really not healthy and linked to all sorts of health issues.
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they dont care if is not healthy. people like to eat what tastes good. (dont try and tell me crap like tofu tastes good)
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

they dont care if is not healthy. people like to eat what tastes good. (dont try and tell me crap like tofu tastes good)

Ok but why is that an acceptable attitude? "I like to do things that are bad for me and I'll do them because it is pleasurable in the short term" cheesecake tastes good but that would be foolish to have it every day.

Food is fuel for your body, not daily recreation. Though people will treat it as the latter and end up with issues.

Tofu tastes good to me when it's prepared properly. Otherwise it's so bland it's not really offensive or delicious. I haven't said anywhere that meat tastes bad, it can be really good, but that doesn't mean it should be eaten the way it usually is
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Have you tried fried gluten? They are delicious!!
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Krazy_Kirby posted...

they dont care if is not healthy. people like to eat what tastes good. (dont try and tell me crap like tofu tastes good)

Ok but why is that an acceptable attitude? "I like to do things that are bad for me and I'll do them because it is pleasurable in the short term" cheesecake tastes good but that would be foolish to have it every day.

Food is fuel for your body, not daily recreation. Though people will treat it as the latter and end up with issues.

Tofu tastes good to me when it's prepared properly. Otherwise it's so bland it's not really offensive or delicious. I haven't said anywhere that meat tastes bad, it can be really good, but that doesn't mean it should be eaten the way it usually is

because it is their choice to do so and im not going to make them change. don't get me wrong, i find fat people disgusting (take the fucking stairs, it's one damn floor). but they can eat what they want.

flipping it around... why spend a time and effort eating healthier food that doesn't taste as good when it's not gaurenteed to make you live longer?
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

because it is their choice to do so and im not going to make them change. don't get me wrong, i find fat people disgusting (take the fucking stairs, it's one damn floor). but they can eat what they want.

flipping it around... why spend a time and effort eating healthier food that doesn't taste as good when it's not gaurenteed to make you live longer?

No one here is making them change. All I'm saying is it's a poor attitude that leads to issues. Justifying destructive behaviors.

Personally I find food tastes great even without meat or dairy so I don't have that issue at all. It's about living better when you are alive rather than living longer. So if I can avoid strokes, heart disease, arterial plaque, high cholesterol, type 2 diabetes, colon cancer, etc. while I am still alive that would be wonderful. And studies have shown proper plant based eating does (substantially) decrease risks of those conditions.
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Susanowo posted...

Have you tried fried gluten? They are delicious!!

Seitan? Yeah that can be really tasty sometimes!
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Plants are inexpensive to eat. Nothing bad about brown rice or lentils nutritionally. Potatoes were on sale. Maybe you don't shop much for unprocessed dry goods.

Not even Walmart would sell that amount of food for $8 here.
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"living better" can mean "eating what you want" to some people
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

"living better" can mean "eating what you want" to some people

I would say that's most people and not just some.
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

"living better" can mean "eating what you want" to some people

Cool I want to not eat meat or dairy!

Revelation34 posted...

Not even Walmart would sell that amount of food for $8 here

Yeah it would be ten bucks at Walmart here just because they don't put things in sale and those potatoes were a great price. Rice is roughly $1 per pound or less and lentils are $.75 - $1.00 per pound. This is in small bags. Bigger bags have a smaller cost by weight (like 8 bucks for 20 pounds).

If you're paying more you're over paying. Ethnic markets are great for rice and lentils. If I had those here I'd pay even less!
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Foxx, I'm not sure if this has been asked yet, or what, but what are your thoughts on lab grown meat?
Is it fine to eat or not? And by fine I mean morally or whatever reason you chose to go for a more vegan-friendly diet.

shadowsword87 posted...

Foxx, I'm not sure if this has been asked yet, or what, but what are your thoughts on lab grown meat?
Is it fine to eat or not? And by fine I mean morally or whatever reason you chose to go for a more vegan-friendly diet.

I'd be interested in trying it but would probably not have it regularly for health reasons anyway. I don't think it would be considered vegan. It's still created from animal cells and tissues. Morally and environmentally I think it's so much better it's not in the same league as farmed meats.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

No food or other products.

Still lots of tasty things to eat. :3

Bullshit. I could believe it if you just said you hadn't eaten meat, but without meat and dairy there is nothing tasty.

Currant_Kaiser posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

No food or other products.

Still lots of tasty things to eat. :3

Bullshit. I could believe it if you just said you hadn't eaten meat, but without meat and dairy there is nothing tasty.

You may have a pretty limited diet if those are the only things that taste good to you. I rarely ate dairy before as I'm lactose intolerant and really didn't miss it.

Right now I mostly miss cooking with butter but I've cut back on oils and added fats considerably.
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

ClarkDuke posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

ClarkDuke posted...

What about those of us with very sharp canines, @Doctor_Foxx, ok?

Like me? I still don't chew with them and didn't when eating meat :p

Yes, I too have sharp canines, I've found they are great for meats and corn, ok?

ok. are you ziggi's alt? ok?

I am me, ok?

And Ziggi is a fantastic human being, he will be an excellent father, ok?
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Going for Thanksgiving dinner tonight. The host said they're going to make sure that all the vegetables are left vegan and one of the guests is making me a vegan pumpkin pie. I just had to promise to share some of my weird fake turkey. Works for me. This should be nice!
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Going for Thanksgiving dinner tonight. The host said they're going to make sure that all the vegetables are left vegan and one of the guests is making me a vegan pumpkin pie. I just had to promise to share some of my weird fake turkey. Works for me. This should be nice!

what?
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ill eat anything if it tastes good. meat, no meat, fake meat, who cares?

ive had vegetarian/vegan meals ive enjoyed. i eat litsa meat but i do laugh at people who act like theyd die if they didnt eat meat with every meal