Current Events > Philando Castile Dash cam is out.

Topic List	Page List: 1 ... 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
#252	Post #252 was unavailable or deleted.
#253	Post #253 was unavailable or deleted.
RickyTheBAWSE 06/21/17 4:28:28 PM #254:	never change, CE. same cast new episode. --- Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to your story! BAWSE! <cite>RickyTheBAWSE posted [p:881553737] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote>never change, CE. same cast new episode.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DezCaughtIt 06/21/17 4:28:29 PM #255:	scorpion41 posted... "Can I have your ID please?" "Yessir," while reaching for the wallet,"sir I have to inform you I have a weapon on me." "Don't reach for it then." "Yessir," places hands on steering wheel waiting for next direction. It's really not that hard. Except he was never reaching for it nor did the guy know where it was. Maybe don't give vague as fuck instructions then empty your clip out when they somehow don't get followed. --- *The user formally known as freakofnature30* I like posting. <cite>DezCaughtIt posted [p:881553738] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>scorpion41 posted...</cite> <quote>"Can I have your ID please?" "Yessir," while reaching for the wallet,"sir I have to inform you I have a weapon on me." "Don't reach for it then." "Yessir," places hands on steering wheel waiting for next direction. It's really not that hard.</quote> Except he was never reaching for it nor did the guy know where it was. Maybe don't give vague as fuck instructions then empty your clip out when they somehow don't get followed.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mal_Fet 06/21/17 4:29:04 PM #256:	cjsdowg posted... But killing someone for not following an order that you did not give is . It's sad that it happened, but when an officer tells you not to reach for "it", it's probably best to assume that the officer is not a mind reader and cannot tell that what you are reaching for isn't "it". --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell <cite>Mal_Fet posted [p:881553762] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>cjsdowg posted...</cite> <quote>But killing someone for not following an order that you did not give is .</quote> It's sad that it happened, but when an officer tells you not to reach for "it", it's probably best to assume that the officer is not a mind reader and cannot tell that what you are reaching for isn't "it".</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 06/21/17 4:31:32 PM #257:	Mal_Fet posted... cjsdowg posted... But killing someone for not following an order that you did not give is . It's sad that it happened, but when an officer tells you not to reach for "it", it's probably best to assume that the officer is not a mind reader and cannot tell that what you are reaching for isn't "it". And if the cop shoots that person, who also isn't a mind reader, then they should get the fucking book thrown at him. Who cares if he doen't have hindsight? Regretting severe, fatal mistakes doesn't absolve you of responsibility for your mistakes. You can't give the cop every benefit of the doubt and then rattle off a bunch of things every untrained civilian should do impeccably or else it is their fault they get shot. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:881553937] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote><cite>cjsdowg posted...</cite> <quote>But killing someone for not following an order that you did not give is .</quote> It's sad that it happened, but when an officer tells you not to reach for "it", it's probably best to assume that the officer is not a mind reader and cannot tell that what you are reaching for isn't "it".</quote> And if the cop shoots that person, who also isn't a mind reader, then they should get the fucking book thrown at him. Who cares if he doen't have hindsight? Regretting severe, fatal mistakes doesn't absolve you of responsibility for your mistakes. You can't give the cop every benefit of the doubt and then rattle off a bunch of things every untrained civilian should do impeccably or else it is their fault they get shot.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
#258	Post #258 was unavailable or deleted.
s0nicfan 06/21/17 4:33:07 PM #259:	hockeybub89 posted... Mal_Fet posted... cjsdowg posted... But killing someone for not following an order that you did not give is . It's sad that it happened, but when an officer tells you not to reach for "it", it's probably best to assume that the officer is not a mind reader and cannot tell that what you are reaching for isn't "it". And if the cop shoots that person, who also isn't a mind reader, then they should get the fucking book thrown at him. Who cares if he doen't have hindsight? Regretting severe, fatal mistakes doesn't absolve you of responsibility for your mistakes. So when the cop told the guy to not reach for it 3 times, and the guy didn't stop and got shot, HIS severe, fatal mistake doesn't absolve him of responsibility for his mistake? Right? --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:881554030] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote><cite>cjsdowg posted...</cite> <quote>But killing someone for not following an order that you did not give is .</quote> It's sad that it happened, but when an officer tells you not to reach for "it", it's probably best to assume that the officer is not a mind reader and cannot tell that what you are reaching for isn't "it".</quote> And if the cop shoots that person, who also isn't a mind reader, then they should get the fucking book thrown at him. Who cares if he doen't have hindsight? Regretting severe, fatal mistakes doesn't absolve you of responsibility for your mistakes.</quote> So when the cop told the guy to not reach for it 3 times, and the guy didn't stop and got shot, HIS severe, fatal mistake doesn't absolve him of responsibility for his mistake? Right?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
legendary_zell 06/21/17 4:34:30 PM #260:	scorpion41 posted... "Can I have your ID please?" "Yessir," while reaching for the wallet,"sir I have to inform you I have a weapon on me." "Don't reach for it then." "Yessir," places hands on steering wheel waiting for next direction. It's really not that hard. Where's the allowance for confusion on the part of the civilian? He was told one direction and then another that was not related and was contradictory. He was trying to comply with one and was shot for disobeying the other. Police are offered all types of anti-hindsight coverage and allowances for reasonable and even reckless mistakes. Those same types mistakes seem to be a death sentence for motorists though. Castille likely thought he was continuing to comply as he had been throughout the entirety of the stop. Just because he didn't take the one action that would calm down an irrationally panicked cop doesn't mean he did something wrong or unreasonable. The officer gave unclear direction and almost immediately shot Castille when he didn't comply by performing an action completely different from what he was directed to do. With how jumpy the officer was, he may have shot for any unexpected movement, including a motion by Castille to put his hands on the dashboard. The problem here is that the officer entered an irrational mindset where he was unable to think clearly or give clear commands and his first instinct was to shoot wildly. --- http://i.imgur.com/0Bi86cp.gif <cite>legendary_zell posted [p:881554114] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>scorpion41 posted...</cite> <quote>"Can I have your ID please?" "Yessir," while reaching for the wallet,"sir I have to inform you I have a weapon on me." "Don't reach for it then." "Yessir," places hands on steering wheel waiting for next direction. It's really not that hard.</quote> Where's the allowance for confusion on the part of the civilian? He was told one direction and then another that was not related and was contradictory. He was trying to comply with one and was shot for disobeying the other. Police are offered all types of anti-hindsight coverage and allowances for reasonable and even reckless mistakes. Those same types mistakes seem to be a death sentence for motorists though. Castille likely thought he was continuing to comply as he had been throughout the entirety of the stop. Just because he didn't take the one action that would calm down an irrationally panicked cop doesn't mean he did something wrong or unreasonable. The officer gave unclear direction and almost immediately shot Castille when he didn't comply by performing an action completely different from what he was directed to do. With how jumpy the officer was, he may have shot for any unexpected movement, including a motion by Castille to put his hands on the dashboard. The problem here is that the officer entered an irrational mindset where he was unable to think clearly or give clear commands and his first instinct was to shoot wildly.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
scorpion41 06/21/17 4:34:59 PM #261:	DezCaughtIt posted... scorpion41 posted... "Can I have your ID please?" "Yessir," while reaching for the wallet,"sir I have to inform you I have a weapon on me." "Don't reach for it then." "Yessir," places hands on steering wheel waiting for next direction. It's really not that hard. Except he was never reaching for it nor did the guy know where it was. Maybe don't give vague as fuck instructions then empty your clip out when they somehow don't get followed. Most people carry in the 3-5 o'clock position on the right hip...that's the first place to assume the weapon is. When he says don't reach for "it" and you have no idea what "it" he is referring to, then don't move and keep your hands visible. Its not that hard. --- PSN: scorpion_4160 Currently Playing: NCAA 14, Devil May Cry HD collection <cite>scorpion41 posted [p:881554140] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>DezCaughtIt posted...</cite> <quote><cite>scorpion41 posted...</cite> <quote>"Can I have your ID please?" "Yessir," while reaching for the wallet,"sir I have to inform you I have a weapon on me." "Don't reach for it then." "Yessir," places hands on steering wheel waiting for next direction. It's really not that hard.</quote> Except he was never reaching for it nor did the guy know where it was. Maybe don't give vague as fuck instructions then empty your clip out when they somehow don't get followed.</quote> Most people carry in the 3-5 o'clock position on the right hip...that's the first place to assume the weapon is. When he says don't reach for "it" and you have no idea what "it" he is referring to, then don't move and keep your hands visible. Its not that hard.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mal_Fet 06/21/17 4:35:01 PM #262:	hockeybub89 posted... And if the cop shoots that person, who also isn't a mind reader, then they should get the fucking book thrown at him. You don't need to be a mind reader... ...to know that someone else isn't a mind reader --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell <cite>Mal_Fet posted [p:881554147] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>And if the cop shoots that person, who also isn't a mind reader, then they should get the fucking book thrown at him.</quote> You don't need to be a mind reader... ...to know that someone else isn't a mind reader</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 06/21/17 4:37:58 PM #263:	legendary_zell posted... Where's the allowance for confusion on the part of the civilian? The allowance was the second and third time he was given an instruction and ignored it. How many more should the cop have given? --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:881554328] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>legendary_zell posted...</cite> <quote>Where's the allowance for confusion on the part of the civilian?</quote> The allowance was the second and third time he was given an instruction and ignored it. How many more should the cop have given?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 06/21/17 4:40:27 PM #264:	s0nicfan posted... hockeybub89 posted... Mal_Fet posted... cjsdowg posted... But killing someone for not following an order that you did not give is . It's sad that it happened, but when an officer tells you not to reach for "it", it's probably best to assume that the officer is not a mind reader and cannot tell that what you are reaching for isn't "it". And if the cop shoots that person, who also isn't a mind reader, then they should get the fucking book thrown at him. Who cares if he doen't have hindsight? Regretting severe, fatal mistakes doesn't absolve you of responsibility for your mistakes. So when the cop told the guy to not reach for it 3 times, and the guy didn't stop and got shot, HIS severe, fatal mistake doesn't absolve him of responsibility for his mistake? Right? Who is being paid to be in a position of power and already has his gun trained on the guy? Not Philando Castile. It is not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. So not right. The cop bears 100% responsibility for this shooting and others like it. You can't expect the untrained civvie to pick up the slack for your incompetence when you have made him nervous and scared and given him a handful of seconds to pull his shit together. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:881554473] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote><cite>cjsdowg posted...</cite> <quote>But killing someone for not following an order that you did not give is .</quote> It's sad that it happened, but when an officer tells you not to reach for "it", it's probably best to assume that the officer is not a mind reader and cannot tell that what you are reaching for isn't "it".</quote> And if the cop shoots that person, who also isn't a mind reader, then they should get the fucking book thrown at him. Who cares if he doen't have hindsight? Regretting severe, fatal mistakes doesn't absolve you of responsibility for your mistakes.</quote> So when the cop told the guy to not reach for it 3 times, and the guy didn't stop and got shot, HIS severe, fatal mistake doesn't absolve him of responsibility for his mistake? Right?</quote> Who is being paid to be in a position of power and already has his gun trained on the guy? Not Philando Castile. It is not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. So not right. The cop bears 100% responsibility for this shooting and others like it. You can't expect the untrained civvie to pick up the slack for your incompetence when you have made him nervous and scared and given him a handful of seconds to pull his shit together.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 06/21/17 4:41:54 PM #265:	hockeybub89 posted... Who is being paid to be in a position of power and already has his gun trained on the guy? Not Philando Castile. It is not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. So not right. The cop bears 100% responsibility for this shooting and others like it. You can't expect the untrained civvie to pick up the slack for your incompetence when you have made him nervous and scared and given him a handful of seconds to pull his shit together. You're correct. It is the civilian's job to listen to the officer's instructions and follow them. If the instructions are unclear, it is the civilian's job to clarify while doing nothing to provoke suspicion. The officer gave him 3 opportunities to do his job, and he failed all 3 times. How many more times should the officer have given him? --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:881554568] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>Who is being paid to be in a position of power and already has his gun trained on the guy? Not Philando Castile. It is not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. So not right. The cop bears 100% responsibility for this shooting and others like it. You can't expect the untrained civvie to pick up the slack for your incompetence when you have made him nervous and scared and given him a handful of seconds to pull his shit together.</quote> You're correct. It is the civilian's job to listen to the officer's instructions and follow them. If the instructions are unclear, it is the civilian's job to clarify while doing nothing to provoke suspicion. The officer gave him 3 opportunities to do his job, and he failed all 3 times. How many more times should the officer have given him?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
#266	Post #266 was unavailable or deleted.
legendary_zell 06/21/17 4:43:33 PM #267:	s0nicfan posted... legendary_zell posted... Where's the allowance for confusion on the part of the civilian? The allowance was the second and third time he was given an instruction and ignored it. How many more should the cop have given? He repeated the same unclear instruction twice within a second. How about changing your instruction to what you actually want them to do or giving time for a compliant and stressed civilian to understand your unclear instruction and make non-jerky movements in a pressure situation? Is that too much to ask? Or is every traffic stop a game where if you guess wrong about what the officer wants you to do, you're dead and the officer will suffer no consequences because afterwards, people can say "he should have done X".? --- http://i.imgur.com/0Bi86cp.gif <cite>legendary_zell posted [p:881554657] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>legendary_zell posted...</cite> <quote>Where's the allowance for confusion on the part of the civilian?</quote> The allowance was the second and third time he was given an instruction and ignored it. How many more should the cop have given?</quote> He repeated the same unclear instruction twice within a second. How about changing your instruction to what you actually want them to do or giving time for a compliant and stressed civilian to understand your unclear instruction and make non-jerky movements in a pressure situation? Is that too much to ask? Or is every traffic stop a game where if you guess wrong about what the officer wants you to do, you're dead and the officer will suffer no consequences because afterwards, people can say "he should have done X".?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 06/21/17 4:45:07 PM #268:	Mal_Fet posted... hockeybub89 posted... And if the cop shoots that person, who also isn't a mind reader, then they should get the fucking book thrown at him. You don't need to be a mind reader... ...to know that someone else isn't a mind reader The civilian, by the sound of it, thought "it" meant the gun. Why should he have known that "don't reach for it (the gun)" meant "freeze in place and do nothing"? There was only a handful of seconds from the beginning of the encounter to the shooting. You are expecting a non-professional to remain calm and properly interpret ambiguous orders in the span of seconds while someone is screaming at them with their gun drawn. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:881554747] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>And if the cop shoots that person, who also isn't a mind reader, then they should get the fucking book thrown at him.</quote> You don't need to be a mind reader... ...to know that someone else isn't a mind reader</quote> The civilian, by the sound of it, thought "it" meant the gun. Why should he have known that "don't reach for it (the gun)" meant "freeze in place and do nothing"? There was only a handful of seconds from the beginning of the encounter to the shooting. You are expecting a non-professional to remain calm and properly interpret ambiguous orders in the span of seconds while someone is screaming at them with their gun drawn.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
legendary_zell 06/21/17 4:45:14 PM #269:	s0nicfan posted... hockeybub89 posted... Who is being paid to be in a position of power and already has his gun trained on the guy? Not Philando Castile. It is not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. So not right. The cop bears 100% responsibility for this shooting and others like it. You can't expect the untrained civvie to pick up the slack for your incompetence when you have made him nervous and scared and given him a handful of seconds to pull his shit together. You're correct. It is the civilian's job to listen to the officer's instructions and follow them. If the instructions are unclear, it is the civilian's job to clarify while doing nothing to provoke suspicion. The officer gave him 3 opportunities to do his job, and he failed all 3 times. How many more times should the officer have given him? You must be trolling now. This is the opposite of what the poster you quoted said. I assumed this whole time you've been arguing in good faith, but I guess not. --- http://i.imgur.com/0Bi86cp.gif <cite>legendary_zell posted [p:881554756] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>Who is being paid to be in a position of power and already has his gun trained on the guy? Not Philando Castile. It is not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. So not right. The cop bears 100% responsibility for this shooting and others like it. You can't expect the untrained civvie to pick up the slack for your incompetence when you have made him nervous and scared and given him a handful of seconds to pull his shit together.</quote> You're correct. It is the civilian's job to listen to the officer's instructions and follow them. If the instructions are unclear, it is the civilian's job to clarify while doing nothing to provoke suspicion. The officer gave him 3 opportunities to do his job, and he failed all 3 times. How many more times should the officer have given him?</quote> You must be trolling now. This is the opposite of what the poster you quoted said. I assumed this whole time you've been arguing in good faith, but I guess not.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 06/21/17 4:45:44 PM #270:	shockthemonkey posted... s0nicfan posted... legendary_zell posted... Where's the allowance for confusion on the part of the civilian? The allowance was the second and third time he was given an instruction and ignored it. How many more should the cop have given? It's been explained repeatedly how you're wrong here. Stop pretending. I have yet to have a single person provide a number, so I'm not going to stop asking. Everyone thinks this is so cut and dry, but have come up with a thousand different ways to not answer a very simple, very direct question. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:881554795] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>legendary_zell posted...</cite> <quote>Where's the allowance for confusion on the part of the civilian?</quote> The allowance was the second and third time he was given an instruction and ignored it. How many more should the cop have given?</quote> It's been explained repeatedly how you're wrong here. Stop pretending.</quote> I have yet to have a single person provide a number, so I'm not going to stop asking. Everyone thinks this is so cut and dry, but have come up with a thousand different ways to not answer a very simple, very direct question.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 06/21/17 4:46:38 PM #271:	legendary_zell posted... s0nicfan posted... hockeybub89 posted... Who is being paid to be in a position of power and already has his gun trained on the guy? Not Philando Castile. It is not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. So not right. The cop bears 100% responsibility for this shooting and others like it. You can't expect the untrained civvie to pick up the slack for your incompetence when you have made him nervous and scared and given him a handful of seconds to pull his shit together. You're correct. It is the civilian's job to listen to the officer's instructions and follow them. If the instructions are unclear, it is the civilian's job to clarify while doing nothing to provoke suspicion. The officer gave him 3 opportunities to do his job, and he failed all 3 times. How many more times should the officer have given him? You must be trolling now. This is the opposite of what the poster you quoted said. I assumed this whole time you've been arguing in good faith, but I guess not. I meant he is correct in that it's not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. That doesn't mean the civilian doesn't also have a responsibility to act a certain way in a police exchange. My point was BOTH OF THEM failed at their responsibilities. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:881554848] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>legendary_zell posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>Who is being paid to be in a position of power and already has his gun trained on the guy? Not Philando Castile. It is not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. So not right. The cop bears 100% responsibility for this shooting and others like it. You can't expect the untrained civvie to pick up the slack for your incompetence when you have made him nervous and scared and given him a handful of seconds to pull his shit together.</quote> You're correct. It is the civilian's job to listen to the officer's instructions and follow them. If the instructions are unclear, it is the civilian's job to clarify while doing nothing to provoke suspicion. The officer gave him 3 opportunities to do his job, and he failed all 3 times. How many more times should the officer have given him?</quote> You must be trolling now. This is the opposite of what the poster you quoted said. I assumed this whole time you've been arguing in good faith, but I guess not.</quote> I meant he is correct in that it's not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. That doesn't mean the civilian doesn't also have a responsibility to act a certain way in a police exchange. My point was BOTH OF THEM failed at their responsibilities.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
cjsdowg 06/21/17 4:47:33 PM #272:	s0nicfan posted... shockthemonkey posted... s0nicfan posted... legendary_zell posted... Where's the allowance for confusion on the part of the civilian? The allowance was the second and third time he was given an instruction and ignored it. How many more should the cop have given? It's been explained repeatedly how you're wrong here. Stop pretending. I have yet to have a single person provide a number, so I'm not going to stop asking. Everyone thinks this is so cut and dry, but have come up with a thousand different ways to not answer a very simple, very direct question. We have addressed this . He was not disobeying anything, thus your question is pointless. --- Bender: Well, everybody, I just saved a turtle. What have you done with your lives? <cite>cjsdowg posted [p:881554906] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>legendary_zell posted...</cite> <quote>Where's the allowance for confusion on the part of the civilian?</quote> The allowance was the second and third time he was given an instruction and ignored it. How many more should the cop have given?</quote> It's been explained repeatedly how you're wrong here. Stop pretending.</quote> I have yet to have a single person provide a number, so I'm not going to stop asking. Everyone thinks this is so cut and dry, but have come up with a thousand different ways to not answer a very simple, very direct question.</quote> We have addressed this . He was not disobeying anything, thus your question is pointless.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 06/21/17 4:49:14 PM #273:	s0nicfan posted... hockeybub89 posted... Who is being paid to be in a position of power and already has his gun trained on the guy? Not Philando Castile. It is not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. So not right. The cop bears 100% responsibility for this shooting and others like it. You can't expect the untrained civvie to pick up the slack for your incompetence when you have made him nervous and scared and given him a handful of seconds to pull his shit together. You're correct. It is the civilian's job to listen to the officer's instructions and follow them. If the instructions are unclear, it is the civilian's job to clarify while doing nothing to provoke suspicion. The officer gave him 3 opportunities to do his job, and he failed all 3 times. How many more times should the officer have given him? What if the civilian thinks the instructions are clear, but was given the wrong instructions by the cop? It is the civilian's job to go "Hold up, officer. Are you sure those are the correct instructions you want me to follow? Are you positive?" But wait, then jokers would be going on about the guy was being non-compliant instead of just silently obeying. Fuck outta here. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:881555005] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>Who is being paid to be in a position of power and already has his gun trained on the guy? Not Philando Castile. It is not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. So not right. The cop bears 100% responsibility for this shooting and others like it. You can't expect the untrained civvie to pick up the slack for your incompetence when you have made him nervous and scared and given him a handful of seconds to pull his shit together.</quote> You're correct. It is the civilian's job to listen to the officer's instructions and follow them. If the instructions are unclear, it is the civilian's job to clarify while doing nothing to provoke suspicion. The officer gave him 3 opportunities to do his job, and he failed all 3 times. How many more times should the officer have given him?</quote> What if the civilian thinks the instructions are clear, but was given the wrong instructions by the cop? It is the civilian's job to go "Hold up, officer. Are you sure those are the correct instructions you want me to follow? Are you positive?" But wait, then jokers would be going on about the guy was being non-compliant instead of just silently obeying. Fuck outta here.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 06/21/17 4:49:27 PM #274:	cjsdowg posted... s0nicfan posted... shockthemonkey posted... s0nicfan posted... legendary_zell posted... Where's the allowance for confusion on the part of the civilian? The allowance was the second and third time he was given an instruction and ignored it. How many more should the cop have given? It's been explained repeatedly how you're wrong here. Stop pretending. I have yet to have a single person provide a number, so I'm not going to stop asking. Everyone thinks this is so cut and dry, but have come up with a thousand different ways to not answer a very simple, very direct question. We have addressed this . He was not disobeying anything, thus your question is pointless. The whole crux of that argument is that the person in the car was completely unable to comprehend what the officer meant in all 3 cases. It's entirely possible he was confused by the first request, maybe even the second, but by the third time a cop is telling you to NOT DO SOMETHING, now in a shouting tone, common sense should kick in and maybe he should have stopped doing anything, let alone continue to reach for something. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:881555021] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>cjsdowg posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>legendary_zell posted...</cite> <quote>Where's the allowance for confusion on the part of the civilian?</quote> The allowance was the second and third time he was given an instruction and ignored it. How many more should the cop have given?</quote> It's been explained repeatedly how you're wrong here. Stop pretending.</quote> I have yet to have a single person provide a number, so I'm not going to stop asking. Everyone thinks this is so cut and dry, but have come up with a thousand different ways to not answer a very simple, very direct question.</quote> We have addressed this . He was not disobeying anything, thus your question is pointless.</quote> The whole crux of that argument is that the person in the car was completely unable to comprehend what the officer meant in all 3 cases. It's entirely possible he was confused by the first request, maybe even the second, but by the third time a cop is telling you to NOT DO SOMETHING, now in a shouting tone, common sense should kick in and maybe he should have stopped doing anything, let alone continue to reach for something.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 06/21/17 4:51:24 PM #275:	hockeybub89 posted... s0nicfan posted... hockeybub89 posted... Who is being paid to be in a position of power and already has his gun trained on the guy? Not Philando Castile. It is not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. So not right. The cop bears 100% responsibility for this shooting and others like it. You can't expect the untrained civvie to pick up the slack for your incompetence when you have made him nervous and scared and given him a handful of seconds to pull his shit together. You're correct. It is the civilian's job to listen to the officer's instructions and follow them. If the instructions are unclear, it is the civilian's job to clarify while doing nothing to provoke suspicion. The officer gave him 3 opportunities to do his job, and he failed all 3 times. How many more times should the officer have given him? What if the civilian thinks the instructions are clear, but was given the wrong instructions by the cop? It is the civilian's job to go "Hold up, officer. Are you sure that is what you want me to do?" But wait, then jokers would be going on about the guy was being non-compliant instead of just silently obeying. Fuck outta here. Again, this is common sense. The cop is shouting at him by the third time. Of COURSE he should ask for clarification before doing anything further. Your hypothetical strawman jokers that would complain about him being non-compliant are irrelevant. He would still be alive. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:881555168] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>Who is being paid to be in a position of power and already has his gun trained on the guy? Not Philando Castile. It is not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. So not right. The cop bears 100% responsibility for this shooting and others like it. You can't expect the untrained civvie to pick up the slack for your incompetence when you have made him nervous and scared and given him a handful of seconds to pull his shit together.</quote> You're correct. It is the civilian's job to listen to the officer's instructions and follow them. If the instructions are unclear, it is the civilian's job to clarify while doing nothing to provoke suspicion. The officer gave him 3 opportunities to do his job, and he failed all 3 times. How many more times should the officer have given him?</quote> What if the civilian thinks the instructions are clear, but was given the wrong instructions by the cop? It is the civilian's job to go "Hold up, officer. Are you sure that is what you want me to do?" But wait, then jokers would be going on about the guy was being non-compliant instead of just silently obeying. Fuck outta here.</quote> Again, this is common sense. The cop is shouting at him by the third time. Of COURSE he should ask for clarification before doing anything further. Your hypothetical strawman jokers that would complain about him being non-compliant are irrelevant. He would still be alive.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 06/21/17 4:52:47 PM #276:	s0nicfan posted... legendary_zell posted... s0nicfan posted... hockeybub89 posted... Who is being paid to be in a position of power and already has his gun trained on the guy? Not Philando Castile. It is not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. So not right. The cop bears 100% responsibility for this shooting and others like it. You can't expect the untrained civvie to pick up the slack for your incompetence when you have made him nervous and scared and given him a handful of seconds to pull his shit together. You're correct. It is the civilian's job to listen to the officer's instructions and follow them. If the instructions are unclear, it is the civilian's job to clarify while doing nothing to provoke suspicion. The officer gave him 3 opportunities to do his job, and he failed all 3 times. How many more times should the officer have given him? You must be trolling now. This is the opposite of what the poster you quoted said. I assumed this whole time you've been arguing in good faith, but I guess not. I meant he is correct in that it's not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. That doesn't mean the civilian doesn't also have a responsibility to act a certain way in a police exchange. My point was BOTH OF THEM failed at their responsibilities. But cops are typically not held accountable for those failed responsibilities. It's just "oops-a-daisy people make mistakes" for one side. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:881555256] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>legendary_zell posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>Who is being paid to be in a position of power and already has his gun trained on the guy? Not Philando Castile. It is not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. So not right. The cop bears 100% responsibility for this shooting and others like it. You can't expect the untrained civvie to pick up the slack for your incompetence when you have made him nervous and scared and given him a handful of seconds to pull his shit together.</quote> You're correct. It is the civilian's job to listen to the officer's instructions and follow them. If the instructions are unclear, it is the civilian's job to clarify while doing nothing to provoke suspicion. The officer gave him 3 opportunities to do his job, and he failed all 3 times. How many more times should the officer have given him?</quote> You must be trolling now. This is the opposite of what the poster you quoted said. I assumed this whole time you've been arguing in good faith, but I guess not.</quote> I meant he is correct in that it's not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. That doesn't mean the civilian doesn't also have a responsibility to act a certain way in a police exchange. My point was BOTH OF THEM failed at their responsibilities.</quote> But cops are typically not held accountable for those failed responsibilities. It's just "oops-a-daisy people make mistakes" for one side.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 06/21/17 4:54:33 PM #277:	hockeybub89 posted... But cops are typically not held accountable for those failed responsibilities. It's just "oops-a-daisy people make mistakes" for one side. We're not talking generalities (or at least I'm not, which is where the confusion may lie). This isn't about whether "cops aren't held responsible" in a general, global sense. It's about whether, in this instance, this cop should be held accountable for the death of this man. If you want to talk about general officer failures we can talk about that, but the point you just made is irrelevant to this specific case. I'm sure there are cases where a cop acted out of turn and killed someone. That hypothetical cop isn't the one in this well documented case. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:881555364] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote> But cops are typically not held accountable for those failed responsibilities. It's just "oops-a-daisy people make mistakes" for one side.</quote> We're not talking generalities (or at least I'm not, which is where the confusion may lie). This isn't about whether "cops aren't held responsible" in a general, global sense. It's about whether, in this instance, this cop should be held accountable for the death of this man. If you want to talk about general officer failures we can talk about that, but the point you just made is irrelevant to this specific case. I'm sure there are cases where a cop acted out of turn and killed someone. That hypothetical cop isn't the one in this well documented case.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 06/21/17 4:55:08 PM #278:	s0nicfan posted... cjsdowg posted... s0nicfan posted... shockthemonkey posted... s0nicfan posted... legendary_zell posted... Where's the allowance for confusion on the part of the civilian? The allowance was the second and third time he was given an instruction and ignored it. How many more should the cop have given? It's been explained repeatedly how you're wrong here. Stop pretending. I have yet to have a single person provide a number, so I'm not going to stop asking. Everyone thinks this is so cut and dry, but have come up with a thousand different ways to not answer a very simple, very direct question. We have addressed this . He was not disobeying anything, thus your question is pointless. The whole crux of that argument is that the person in the car was completely unable to comprehend what the officer meant in all 3 cases. It's entirely possible he was confused by the first request, maybe even the second, but by the third time a cop is telling you to NOT DO SOMETHING, now in a shouting tone, common sense should kick in and maybe he should have stopped doing anything, let alone continue to reach for something. Common sense didn't kick in for the cop, so why should it kick in for the untrained civilian after the stressful situation has gone nuclear? If anything, logic flies out the window the longer things go on. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:881555395] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>cjsdowg posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>legendary_zell posted...</cite> <quote>Where's the allowance for confusion on the part of the civilian?</quote> The allowance was the second and third time he was given an instruction and ignored it. How many more should the cop have given?</quote> It's been explained repeatedly how you're wrong here. Stop pretending.</quote> I have yet to have a single person provide a number, so I'm not going to stop asking. Everyone thinks this is so cut and dry, but have come up with a thousand different ways to not answer a very simple, very direct question.</quote> We have addressed this . He was not disobeying anything, thus your question is pointless.</quote> The whole crux of that argument is that the person in the car was completely unable to comprehend what the officer meant in all 3 cases. It's entirely possible he was confused by the first request, maybe even the second, but by the third time a cop is telling you to NOT DO SOMETHING, now in a shouting tone, common sense should kick in and maybe he should have stopped doing anything, let alone continue to reach for something.</quote> Common sense didn't kick in for the cop, so why should it kick in for the untrained civilian after the stressful situation has gone nuclear? If anything, logic flies out the window the longer things go on.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MangaFan462 06/21/17 4:55:56 PM #279:	Pretty tragic and not good for relations that the coo wasn't punished. I would never want be an officer because the high stress of dealing with very dangerous communities can so easily put you on edge. --- Posted using GameFlux https://i.imgur.com/Il34cSX.jpg / https://i.redd.it/zwfbqetu2b8y.jpg <cite>MangaFan462 posted [p:881555446] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote>Pretty tragic and not good for relations that the coo wasn't punished. I would never want be an officer because the high stress of dealing with very dangerous communities can so easily put you on edge.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 06/21/17 4:56:25 PM #280:	s0nicfan posted... hockeybub89 posted... But cops are typically not held accountable for those failed responsibilities. It's just "oops-a-daisy people make mistakes" for one side. We're not talking generalities (or at least I'm not, which is where the confusion may lie). This isn't about whether "cops aren't held responsible" in a general, global sense. It's about whether, in this instance, this cop should be held accountable for the death of this man. If you want to talk about general officer failures we can talk about that, but the point you just made is irrelevant to this specific case. I'm sure there are cases where a cop acted out of turn and killed someone. That hypothetical cop isn't the one in this well documented case. It is relevant because this cop is not in prison for his failed responsibilities. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:881555478] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote> But cops are typically not held accountable for those failed responsibilities. It's just "oops-a-daisy people make mistakes" for one side.</quote> We're not talking generalities (or at least I'm not, which is where the confusion may lie). This isn't about whether "cops aren't held responsible" in a general, global sense. It's about whether, in this instance, this cop should be held accountable for the death of this man. If you want to talk about general officer failures we can talk about that, but the point you just made is irrelevant to this specific case. I'm sure there are cases where a cop acted out of turn and killed someone. That hypothetical cop isn't the one in this well documented case.</quote> It is relevant because this cop is not in prison for his failed responsibilities.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mal_Fet 06/21/17 4:57:13 PM #281:	hockeybub89 posted... Who is being paid to be in a position of power and already has his gun trained on the guy? Not Philando Castile. It is not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. I see the problem. You're just ingorant of firearms and reaction times. See, by the time the officer saw a gun, it would have been too late for him to react. There are tests done on firing ranges in which there's person with a gun trained on a target, and one person holding a gun to his side. The one with his gun already pointed at his target is to wait to fire until he sees the other shooter's hand move even slightly. The other shooter is to raise his gun and fire whenever he chooses. The result? The shooter with his gun already aimed at his target is almost never able to fire before the other guy raises his gun up and shoots. It's not humanly possible to react quick enough in all situations like that. Now imagine you're the cop. You know that as soon a you see a gun, it's probably too late. You've already told the guy twice to not reach for his gun, and he's still reaching for something. So do you protect your life and be sure to go home to your family? Or do you assume that this guy who hasn't responded to your orders is just reaching for an ID? --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell <cite>Mal_Fet posted [p:881555528] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>Who is being paid to be in a position of power and already has his gun trained on the guy? Not Philando Castile. It is not the civilian's job to do the officer's job. </quote> I see the problem. You're just ingorant of firearms and reaction times. See, by the time the officer saw a gun, it would have been too late for him to react. There are tests done on firing ranges in which there's person with a gun trained on a target, and one person holding a gun to his side. The one with his gun already pointed at his target is to wait to fire until he sees the other shooter's hand move even slightly. The other shooter is to raise his gun and fire whenever he chooses. The result? The shooter with his gun already aimed at his target is almost never able to fire before the other guy raises his gun up and shoots. It's not humanly possible to react quick enough in all situations like that. Now imagine you're the cop. You know that as soon a you see a gun, it's probably too late. You've already told the guy twice to not reach for his gun, and he's still reaching for something. So do you protect your life and be sure to go home to your family? Or do you assume that this guy who hasn't responded to your orders is just reaching for an ID?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 06/21/17 4:57:14 PM #282:	hockeybub89 posted... Common sense didn't kick in for the cop, so why should it kick in for the untrained civilian after the stressful situation has gone nuclear? If anything, logic flies out the window the longer things go on. Which piece of common sense didn't kick in? He knew the guy had a gun, he knew he was reaching for something, and he instructed the man 3 times to not reach for it. Is the "common sense" here that the guy who was actively reaching somewhere in his car where you know there's a gun didn't understand your second and third "DON'T" to mean "reach for the gun?" --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:881555531] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>Common sense didn't kick in for the cop, so why should it kick in for the untrained civilian after the stressful situation has gone nuclear? If anything, logic flies out the window the longer things go on. </quote> Which piece of common sense didn't kick in? He knew the guy had a gun, he knew he was reaching for something, and he instructed the man 3 times to not reach for it. Is the "common sense" here that the guy who was actively reaching somewhere in his car where you know there's a gun didn't understand your second and third "DON'T" to mean "reach for the gun?"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheVipaGTS 06/21/17 5:00:37 PM #283:	"Common sense should kick in" is such a terrible argument. You're in a high pressure situation. Anyone getting pulled over is likely to be nervous. He told him he had a gun which indicates he feared being shot if the officer had seen it. It's easy to say in hindsight after assessing the situation and calmly examining things what "should" have been done. It's not so easy to think sometimes, within seconds, in situations like that. Especially when the cop was the one escalating and likely confusing him even more. In 7 seconds it's foolish to just assume he was thinking "oh the cop is mad because I'm reaching towards my gun". For all you know he was thinking "I'm not reaching for the gun I'm reaching for the ID"...you act like 7 seconds is a lot of time for a nervous brain to process all that and act logically. Sometimes it isn't. It's the trained individuals job to help with that. The cop. Not the citizen. Again, why people are putting more blame on the untrained citizen than the "trained" cop is absurd and one of the reasons nothing is ever going to change. "Their training doesn't need to change. Citizens just need to be perfect at all times"...pretty soon you'll be suggesting training the citizens over the cops lol. <cite>TheVipaGTS posted [p:881555723] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote>"Common sense should kick in" is such a terrible argument. You're in a high pressure situation. Anyone getting pulled over is likely to be nervous. He told him he had a gun which indicates he feared being shot if the officer had seen it. It's easy to say in hindsight after assessing the situation and calmly examining things what "should" have been done. It's not so easy to think sometimes, within seconds, in situations like that. Especially when the cop was the one escalating and likely confusing him even more. In 7 seconds it's foolish to just assume he was thinking "oh the cop is mad because I'm reaching towards my gun". For all you know he was thinking "I'm not reaching for the gun I'm reaching for the ID"...you act like 7 seconds is a lot of time for a nervous brain to process all that and act logically. Sometimes it isn't. It's the trained individuals job to help with that. The cop. Not the citizen. Again, why people are putting more blame on the untrained citizen than the "trained" cop is absurd and one of the reasons nothing is ever going to change. "Their training doesn't need to change. Citizens just need to be perfect at all times"...pretty soon you'll be suggesting training the citizens over the cops lol.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mal_Fet 06/21/17 5:03:25 PM #284:	TheVipaGTS posted... "Common sense should kick in" is such a terrible argument. You're in a high pressure situation. Anyone getting pulled over is likely to be nervous. He told him he had a gun which indicates he feared being shot if the officer had seen it. Oh my God, he told the officer he had a firearm because that's the law. You must tell an officer if you have a gun in the car when you are pulled over. Just once I'd like to have a discussion about a topic like this with someone who actually knows what the law is. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell <cite>Mal_Fet posted [p:881555899] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>TheVipaGTS posted...</cite> <quote>"Common sense should kick in" is such a terrible argument. You're in a high pressure situation. Anyone getting pulled over is likely to be nervous. He told him he had a gun which indicates he feared being shot if the officer had seen it.</quote> Oh my God, he told the officer he had a firearm because that's the law. You must tell an officer if you have a gun in the car when you are pulled over. Just once I'd like to have a discussion about a topic like this with someone who actually knows what the law is.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 06/21/17 5:06:06 PM #285:	s0nicfan posted... hockeybub89 posted... Common sense didn't kick in for the cop, so why should it kick in for the untrained civilian after the stressful situation has gone nuclear? If anything, logic flies out the window the longer things go on. Which piece of common sense didn't kick in? He knew the guy had a gun, he knew he was reaching for something, and he instructed the man 3 times to not reach for it. Is the "common sense" here that the guy who was actively reaching somewhere in his car where you know there's a gun didn't understand your second and third "DON'T" to mean "reach for the gun?" Well if Castile should have known what the cop meant, then the cop should have known what Castile meant. It's common sense that don't reach for the gun doesn't mean more than that. Maybe the cop shouldn't speak in riddles. Loudly speaking in riddles with your gun drawn doesn't clear up confusion in mere moments. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:881556076] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>Common sense didn't kick in for the cop, so why should it kick in for the untrained civilian after the stressful situation has gone nuclear? If anything, logic flies out the window the longer things go on. </quote> Which piece of common sense didn't kick in? He knew the guy had a gun, he knew he was reaching for something, and he instructed the man 3 times to not reach for it. Is the "common sense" here that the guy who was actively reaching somewhere in his car where you know there's a gun didn't understand your second and third "DON'T" to mean "reach for the gun?"</quote> Well if Castile should have known what the cop meant, then the cop should have known what Castile meant. It's common sense that don't reach for the gun doesn't mean more than that. Maybe the cop shouldn't speak in riddles. Loudly speaking in riddles with your gun drawn doesn't clear up confusion in mere moments.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 06/21/17 5:06:17 PM #286:	TheVipaGTS posted... "Common sense should kick in" is such a terrible argument. You're in a high pressure situation. Anyone getting pulled over is likely to be nervous. He told him he had a gun which indicates he feared being shot if the officer had seen it. It's easy to say in hindsight after assessing the situation and calmly examining things what "should" have been done. It's not so easy to think sometimes, within seconds, in situations like that. Especially when the cop was the one escalating and likely confusing him even more. In 7 seconds it's foolish to just assume he was thinking "oh the cop is mad because I'm reaching towards my gun". For all you know he was thinking "I'm not reaching for the gun I'm reaching for the ID"...you act like 7 seconds is a lot of time for a nervous brain to process all that and act logically. Sometimes it isn't. It's the trained individuals job to help with that. The cop. Not the citizen. Again, why people are putting more blame on the untrained citizen than the "trained" cop is absurd and one of the reasons nothing is ever going to change. "Their training doesn't need to change. Citizens just need to be perfect at all times"...pretty soon you'll be suggesting training the citizens over the cops lol. I'm not putting MORE blame on the citizen. I'm putting SOME blame on the citizen. I'm also not saying the cop acted pefectly or that his training was sufficient. All I've been saying is that the cop acted as anyone would in his situation, and that given the video evidence he shouldn't be in jail. I also believe that, if the situation was reversed, the victim shouldn't be found guilty either. You can argue all you want that's not how it works and that more often than not the courts won't rule evenly in both directions. That's a different argument entirely, and I won't disagree with you on that. EDIT: "Maybe the cop shouldn't speak in riddles. Loudly speaking in riddles with your gun drawn doesn't clear up confusion in mere moments." Come on man, speaking in riddles? Really? --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:881556083] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>TheVipaGTS posted...</cite> <quote>"Common sense should kick in" is such a terrible argument. You're in a high pressure situation. Anyone getting pulled over is likely to be nervous. He told him he had a gun which indicates he feared being shot if the officer had seen it. It's easy to say in hindsight after assessing the situation and calmly examining things what "should" have been done. It's not so easy to think sometimes, within seconds, in situations like that. Especially when the cop was the one escalating and likely confusing him even more. In 7 seconds it's foolish to just assume he was thinking "oh the cop is mad because I'm reaching towards my gun". For all you know he was thinking "I'm not reaching for the gun I'm reaching for the ID"...you act like 7 seconds is a lot of time for a nervous brain to process all that and act logically. Sometimes it isn't. It's the trained individuals job to help with that. The cop. Not the citizen. Again, why people are putting more blame on the untrained citizen than the "trained" cop is absurd and one of the reasons nothing is ever going to change. "Their training doesn't need to change. Citizens just need to be perfect at all times"...pretty soon you'll be suggesting training the citizens over the cops lol.</quote> I'm not putting MORE blame on the citizen. I'm putting SOME blame on the citizen. I'm also not saying the cop acted pefectly or that his training was sufficient. All I've been saying is that the cop acted as anyone would in his situation, and that given the video evidence he shouldn't be in jail. I also believe that, if the situation was reversed, the victim shouldn't be found guilty either. You can argue all you want that's not how it works and that more often than not the courts won't rule evenly in both directions. That's a different argument entirely, and I won't disagree with you on that. EDIT:<quote> "Maybe the cop shouldn't speak in riddles. Loudly speaking in riddles with your gun drawn doesn't clear up confusion in mere moments." </quote> Come on man, speaking in riddles? Really?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 06/21/17 5:11:11 PM #287:	Mal_Fet posted... TheVipaGTS posted... "Common sense should kick in" is such a terrible argument. You're in a high pressure situation. Anyone getting pulled over is likely to be nervous. He told him he had a gun which indicates he feared being shot if the officer had seen it. Oh my God, he told the officer he had a firearm because that's the law. You must tell an officer if you have a gun in the car when you are pulled over. Just once I'd like to have a discussion about a topic like this with someone who actually knows what the law is. Now address the rest of his post about nervous civilians reacting to ambiguous orders in high stress situations. Castile may have told the cop because he was supposed to, but the interaction quickly became hectic. The average person might get scared and your response is "Welp, that's their fault. Cop did what he had to do." --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:881556405] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote><cite>TheVipaGTS posted...</cite> <quote>"Common sense should kick in" is such a terrible argument. You're in a high pressure situation. Anyone getting pulled over is likely to be nervous. He told him he had a gun which indicates he feared being shot if the officer had seen it.</quote> Oh my God, he told the officer he had a firearm because that's the law. You must tell an officer if you have a gun in the car when you are pulled over. Just once I'd like to have a discussion about a topic like this with someone who actually knows what the law is.</quote> Now address the rest of his post about nervous civilians reacting to ambiguous orders in high stress situations. Castile may have told the cop because he was supposed to, but the interaction quickly became hectic. The average person might get scared and your response is "Welp, that's their fault. Cop did what he had to do."</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 06/21/17 5:14:31 PM #288:	All shit like this does is make people MORE nervous around cops. People always ask "when will people learn" when things like this happen and the answer is they never will learn because turning every police interaction into a life-or-death high-wire act will just freak the average person out. s0nicfan posted... Come on man, speaking in riddles? Really? If someone keeps yelling at me to stop doing a thing that I'm not doing, I am more likely to get confused and annoyed than calmly diffuse the situation and extract the true meaning from the other person, even if they are a cop. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:881556592] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote>All shit like this does is make people MORE nervous around cops. People always ask "when will people learn" when things like this happen and the answer is they never will learn because turning every police interaction into a life-or-death high-wire act will just freak the average person out. <cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Come on man, speaking in riddles? Really?</quote> If someone keeps yelling at me to stop doing a thing that I'm not doing, I am more likely to get confused and annoyed than calmly diffuse the situation and extract the true meaning from the other person, even if they are a cop.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
yemmy 06/21/17 5:16:05 PM #289:	Mal_Fet posted... The result? The shooter with his gun already aimed at his target is almost never able to fire before the other guy raises his gun up and shoots. It's not humanly possible to react quick enough in all situations like that. What? I can fire an already drawn gun a lot more quickly than I can unholster a weapon, draw it, acquire my target and fire. If the guy drawing and shooting is faster, he's not hitting what he's aiming at (or the guy with the already drawn gun is slow). Why the saying goes "don't draw on a drawn gun", because you're not gonna beat the person who already has the drop on you. I mean go tell that shit to a USPSA/IDPA guy and see how much you get laughed at. Drills that don't require a draw are ALWAYS faster than those that do. Also, the cop didn't draw until he shot, so I don't see why this is even an issue. --- p226 <cite>yemmy posted [p:881556689] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote>The result? The shooter with his gun already aimed at his target is almost never able to fire before the other guy raises his gun up and shoots. It's not humanly possible to react quick enough in all situations like that. </quote> What? I can fire an already drawn gun a lot more quickly than I can unholster a weapon, draw it, acquire my target and fire. If the guy drawing and shooting is faster, he's not hitting what he's aiming at (or the guy with the already drawn gun is slow). Why the saying goes "don't draw on a drawn gun", because you're not gonna beat the person who already has the drop on you. I mean go tell that shit to a USPSA/IDPA guy and see how much you get laughed at. Drills that don't require a draw are ALWAYS faster than those that do. Also, the cop didn't draw until he shot, so I don't see why this is even an issue.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 06/21/17 5:17:40 PM #290:	hockeybub89 posted... s0nicfan posted... Come on man, speaking in riddles? Really? If someone keeps yelling at me to stop doing a thing that I'm not doing, I am more likely to get confused and annoyed than calmly diffuse the situation and extract the true meaning from the other person, even if they are a cop. This is the thing: if a cop keeps yelling at you to stop doing a thing that you're not doing, but you're ALSO doing something else at the same time, the solution isn't to keep doing that other thing. It's to stop doing all the things. I get what you're saying about getting confused and being nervous, but the fact of the matter is he did the wrong thing, and now he's dead. Again, the cop could have handled it better, but you're basically arguing that the difference between being jailed for manslaughter and "completely justified" is yelling "stop" instead of "don't". --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:881556786] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Come on man, speaking in riddles? Really?</quote> If someone keeps yelling at me to stop doing a thing that I'm not doing, I am more likely to get confused and annoyed than calmly diffuse the situation and extract the true meaning from the other person, even if they are a cop.</quote> This is the thing: if a cop keeps yelling at you to stop doing a thing that you're not doing, but you're ALSO doing something else at the same time, the solution isn't to keep doing that other thing. It's to stop doing all the things. I get what you're saying about getting confused and being nervous, but the fact of the matter is he did the wrong thing, and now he's dead. Again, the cop could have handled it better, but you're basically arguing that the difference between being jailed for manslaughter and "completely justified" is yelling "stop" instead of "don't".</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 06/21/17 5:20:48 PM #291:	s0nicfan posted... hockeybub89 posted... s0nicfan posted... Come on man, speaking in riddles? Really? If someone keeps yelling at me to stop doing a thing that I'm not doing, I am more likely to get confused and annoyed than calmly diffuse the situation and extract the true meaning from the other person, even if they are a cop. This is the thing: if a cop keeps yelling at you to stop doing a thing that you're not doing, but you're ALSO doing something else at the same time, the solution isn't to keep doing that other thing. It's to stop doing all the things. I get what you're saying about getting confused and being nervous, but the fact of the matter is he did the wrong thing, and now he's dead. Again, the cop could have handled it better, but you're basically arguing that the difference between being jailed for manslaughter and "completely justified" is yelling "stop" instead of "don't". That is what I am arguing. "Don't do this thing" is not "Stop doing all things." At least not to me and how I would react. I wouldn't even support each and every shooting of the latter variety. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:881556971] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Come on man, speaking in riddles? Really?</quote> If someone keeps yelling at me to stop doing a thing that I'm not doing, I am more likely to get confused and annoyed than calmly diffuse the situation and extract the true meaning from the other person, even if they are a cop.</quote> This is the thing: if a cop keeps yelling at you to stop doing a thing that you're not doing, but you're ALSO doing something else at the same time, the solution isn't to keep doing that other thing. It's to stop doing all the things. I get what you're saying about getting confused and being nervous, but the fact of the matter is he did the wrong thing, and now he's dead. Again, the cop could have handled it better, but you're basically arguing that the difference between being jailed for manslaughter and "completely justified" is yelling "stop" instead of "don't".</quote> That is what I am arguing. "Don't do this thing" is not "Stop doing all things." At least not to me and how I would react. I wouldn't even support each and every shooting of the latter variety.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 06/21/17 5:22:59 PM #292:	hockeybub89 posted... That is what I am arguing. "Don't do this thing" is not "Stop doing all things." I wouldn't even support each and every shooting of the latter variety. Then we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I don't think the officer in this instance should be jailed for manslaughter for saying "don't" instead of "stop" if we're assuming everything else about the situation is the same. I think it's a tragedy what happened and the byproduct of mistakes made across the board, and I'm sure the officer will spend the rest of his life regretting what happened, but jail here isn't going to fix anything. And I'll say it again, this isn't about whether cops in general get away with murder. I'm purely talking about this instance. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:881557118] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote> That is what I am arguing. "Don't do this thing" is not "Stop doing all things." I wouldn't even support each and every shooting of the latter variety.</quote> Then we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I don't think the officer in this instance should be jailed for manslaughter for saying "don't" instead of "stop" if we're assuming everything else about the situation is the same. I think it's a tragedy what happened and the byproduct of mistakes made across the board, and I'm sure the officer will spend the rest of his life regretting what happened, but jail here isn't going to fix anything. And I'll say it again, this isn't about whether cops in general get away with murder. I'm purely talking about this instance.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mal_Fet 06/21/17 5:32:07 PM #293:	hockeybub89 posted... Now address the rest of his post about nervous civilians reacting to ambiguous orders in high stress situations. You know that we're getting off the rails when "Don't reach for it" is an ambiguous order. We've been though this. Even if he wasn't reaching for a gun, he knows that there's no way for an officer to know what it is he's reaching for. As a CCW holder, he MUST have received this information. There's just no excuse for it. To get my license I went through an exhaustive 6 hour lecture followed by a 30-minute written test, all on firearm law in my state and in neighboring states. Dealing with police with a firearm is a BIG part of the curriculum. yemmy posted... I can fire an already drawn gun a lot more quickly than I can unholster a weapon, draw it, acquire my target and fire. If the guy drawing and shooting is faster, he's not hitting what he's aiming at (or the guy with the already drawn gun is slow). Ok, so get a buddy and recreate the parameters I listed. Veteran police can't do it with any regularity, but I bet you can react faster than all of them, Wyatt Earp. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell <cite>Mal_Fet posted [p:881557648] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>Now address the rest of his post about nervous civilians reacting to ambiguous orders in high stress situations. </quote> You know that we're getting off the rails when "Don't reach for it" is an ambiguous order. We've been though this. Even if he wasn't reaching for a gun, he knows that there's no way for an officer to know what it is he's reaching for. As a CCW holder, he MUST have received this information. There's just no excuse for it. To get my license I went through an exhaustive 6 hour lecture followed by a 30-minute written test, all on firearm law in my state and in neighboring states. Dealing with police with a firearm is a BIG part of the curriculum. <cite>yemmy posted...</cite> <quote>I can fire an already drawn gun a lot more quickly than I can unholster a weapon, draw it, acquire my target and fire. If the guy drawing and shooting is faster, he's not hitting what he's aiming at (or the guy with the already drawn gun is slow).</quote> Ok, so get a buddy and recreate the parameters I listed. Veteran police can't do it with any regularity, but I bet you can react faster than all of them, Wyatt Earp.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
cjsdowg 06/21/17 5:43:20 PM #294:	s0nicfan posted... Then we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I don't think the officer in this instance should be jailed for manslaughter for saying "don't" instead of "stop" if we're assuming everything else about the situation is the same. I think it's a tragedy what happened and the byproduct of mistakes made across the board, and I'm sure the officer will spend the rest of his life regretting what happened, but jail here isn't going to fix anything. And I'll say it again, this isn't about whether cops in general get away with murder. I'm purely talking about this instance. Yeah the cop gets away with murder because he said the wrong thing, then he lies about what happens. But hey that black guy should have known when not to comply with police. --- Bender: Well, everybody, I just saved a turtle. What have you done with your lives? <cite>cjsdowg posted [p:881558310] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote> Then we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I don't think the officer in this instance should be jailed for manslaughter for saying "don't" instead of "stop" if we're assuming everything else about the situation is the same. I think it's a tragedy what happened and the byproduct of mistakes made across the board, and I'm sure the officer will spend the rest of his life regretting what happened, but jail here isn't going to fix anything. And I'll say it again, this isn't about whether cops in general get away with murder. I'm purely talking about this instance.</quote> Yeah the cop gets away with murder because he said the wrong thing, then he lies about what happens. But hey that black guy should have known when not to comply with police.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
apocalyptic_4 06/21/17 5:43:31 PM #295:	Anarchy_Juiblex posted... apocalyptic_4 never answered marc55's question so I had to make an inference that he meant people with their daughters deserve specific consideration. No I was pointing out that the daughter had to witness her father getting gunned down. --- PSN: Adrian396 XBL: Prime Legacy Nintendo ID: Apocalypse <cite>apocalyptic_4 posted [p:881558321] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>Anarchy_Juiblex posted...</cite> <quote>apocalyptic_4 never answered marc55's question so I had to make an inference that he meant people with their daughters deserve specific consideration.</quote> No I was pointing out that the daughter had to witness her father getting gunned down.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
yemmy 06/21/17 5:50:20 PM #296:	Mal_Fet posted... hockeybub89 posted... Now address the rest of his post about nervous civilians reacting to ambiguous orders in high stress situations. You know that we're getting off the rails when "Don't reach for it" is an ambiguous order. We've been though this. Even if he wasn't reaching for a gun, he knows that there's no way for an officer to know what it is he's reaching for. As a CCW holder, he MUST have received this information. There's just no excuse for it. yemmy posted... I can fire an already drawn gun a lot more quickly than I can unholster a weapon, draw it, acquire my target and fire. If the guy drawing and shooting is faster, he's not hitting what he's aiming at (or the guy with the already drawn gun is slow). Ok, so get a buddy and recreate the parameters I listed. Veteran police can't do it with any regularity, but I bet you can react faster than all of them, Wyatt Earp. I don't need a buddy I used to shoot B class USPSA and IDPA.(I actually DO shoot better than a lot of veteran cops also, not all but I've beat plenty of them in my day). TIL you can draw a weapon and fire more quickly than I can just pull the trigger on my weapon. Makes a whole lot of sense there. --- p226 <cite>yemmy posted [p:881558750] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>Now address the rest of his post about nervous civilians reacting to ambiguous orders in high stress situations. </quote> You know that we're getting off the rails when "Don't reach for it" is an ambiguous order. We've been though this. Even if he wasn't reaching for a gun, he knows that there's no way for an officer to know what it is he's reaching for. As a CCW holder, he MUST have received this information. There's just no excuse for it. <cite>yemmy posted...</cite> <quote>I can fire an already drawn gun a lot more quickly than I can unholster a weapon, draw it, acquire my target and fire. If the guy drawing and shooting is faster, he's not hitting what he's aiming at (or the guy with the already drawn gun is slow).</quote> Ok, so get a buddy and recreate the parameters I listed. Veteran police can't do it with any regularity, but I bet you can react faster than all of them, Wyatt Earp.</quote> I don't need a buddy I used to shoot B class USPSA and IDPA.(I actually DO shoot better than a lot of veteran cops also, not all but I've beat plenty of them in my day). TIL you can draw a weapon and fire more quickly than I can just pull the trigger on my weapon. Makes a whole lot of sense there.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
giled_tolgra 06/21/17 6:15:11 PM #297:	"The cop was scared!" I guess the civilian wasn´t scared or nervous on the slightest, we civilians should bring pacifiers so that the scaredy cops can calm down and do the job they were trained for. This is disgusting, apparently its civilians that need to be trained for cop interaction because cops can´t be arsed to actually get trained or do their job properly. I wouldn´t blame this on racism but on crappy training and cops that feel like they can get away with anything as long as they claim they were scared. Because of course a cop yelling at you and him having a gun is not a scary situation for people. This doesn´t even ebenefits cops, its such a self destructuve behaviour. Since the scared cops will shoot at any time you make them jump people will be more scared and nervous during this kind of stuff which will lead to the cops shooting etc... Just a sad situation, and nobody seems to actually care enough to make some real changes so we will get more people dying due to stupid mistakes. --- http://www.backloggery.com/main.php?user=Windsupernova Play Whatever. No fanboyism. PW.President of the Biased club <cite>giled_tolgra posted [p:881560225] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote>"The cop was scared!" I guess the civilian wasn´t scared or nervous on the slightest, we civilians should bring pacifiers so that the scaredy cops can calm down and do the job they were trained for. This is disgusting, apparently its civilians that need to be trained for cop interaction because cops can´t be arsed to actually get trained or do their job properly. I wouldn´t blame this on racism but on crappy training and cops that feel like they can get away with anything as long as they claim they were scared. Because of course a cop yelling at you and him having a gun is not a scary situation for people. This doesn´t even ebenefits cops, its such a self destructuve behaviour. Since the scared cops will shoot at any time you make them jump people will be more scared and nervous during this kind of stuff which will lead to the cops shooting etc... Just a sad situation, and nobody seems to actually care enough to make some real changes so we will get more people dying due to stupid mistakes.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
thelovefist 06/21/17 6:21:27 PM #298:	giled_tolgra posted... "The cop was scared!" I guess the civilian wasn´t scared or nervous on the slightest, we civilians should bring pacifiers so that the scaredy cops can calm down and do the job they were trained for. This is disgusting, apparently its civilians that need to be trained for cop interaction because cops can´t be arsed to actually get trained or do their job properly. I wouldn´t blame this on racism but on crappy training and cops that feel like they can get away with anything as long as they claim they were scared. Because of course a cop yelling at you and him having a gun is not a scary situation for people. This doesn´t even ebenefits cops, its such a self destructuve behaviour. Since the scared cops will shoot at any time you make them jump people will be more scared and nervous during this kind of stuff which will lead to the cops shooting etc... Just a sad situation, and nobody seems to actually care enough to make some real changes so we will get more people dying due to stupid mistakes. Too much edge for me --- N/A <cite>thelovefist posted [p:881560533] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>giled_tolgra posted...</cite> <quote>"The cop was scared!" I guess the civilian wasn´t scared or nervous on the slightest, we civilians should bring pacifiers so that the scaredy cops can calm down and do the job they were trained for. This is disgusting, apparently its civilians that need to be trained for cop interaction because cops can´t be arsed to actually get trained or do their job properly. I wouldn´t blame this on racism but on crappy training and cops that feel like they can get away with anything as long as they claim they were scared. Because of course a cop yelling at you and him having a gun is not a scary situation for people. This doesn´t even ebenefits cops, its such a self destructuve behaviour. Since the scared cops will shoot at any time you make them jump people will be more scared and nervous during this kind of stuff which will lead to the cops shooting etc... Just a sad situation, and nobody seems to actually care enough to make some real changes so we will get more people dying due to stupid mistakes.</quote> Too much edge for me</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Twin3Turbo 06/21/17 6:30:58 PM #299:	thelovefist posted... giled_tolgra posted... "The cop was scared!" I guess the civilian wasn´t scared or nervous on the slightest, we civilians should bring pacifiers so that the scaredy cops can calm down and do the job they were trained for. This is disgusting, apparently its civilians that need to be trained for cop interaction because cops can´t be arsed to actually get trained or do their job properly. I wouldn´t blame this on racism but on crappy training and cops that feel like they can get away with anything as long as they claim they were scared. Because of course a cop yelling at you and him having a gun is not a scary situation for people. This doesn´t even ebenefits cops, its such a self destructuve behaviour. Since the scared cops will shoot at any time you make them jump people will be more scared and nervous during this kind of stuff which will lead to the cops shooting etc... Just a sad situation, and nobody seems to actually care enough to make some real changes so we will get more people dying due to stupid mistakes. Too much edge for me Considering your post, I don't see how it could be too edgy for you. --- https://imgflip.com/gif/di4a4 <cite>Twin3Turbo posted [p:881561066] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>thelovefist posted...</cite> <quote><cite>giled_tolgra posted...</cite> <quote>"The cop was scared!" I guess the civilian wasn´t scared or nervous on the slightest, we civilians should bring pacifiers so that the scaredy cops can calm down and do the job they were trained for. This is disgusting, apparently its civilians that need to be trained for cop interaction because cops can´t be arsed to actually get trained or do their job properly. I wouldn´t blame this on racism but on crappy training and cops that feel like they can get away with anything as long as they claim they were scared. Because of course a cop yelling at you and him having a gun is not a scary situation for people. This doesn´t even ebenefits cops, its such a self destructuve behaviour. Since the scared cops will shoot at any time you make them jump people will be more scared and nervous during this kind of stuff which will lead to the cops shooting etc... Just a sad situation, and nobody seems to actually care enough to make some real changes so we will get more people dying due to stupid mistakes.</quote> Too much edge for me</quote> Considering your post, I don't see how it could be too edgy for you.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
thronedfire2 06/21/17 6:31:53 PM #300:	thronedfire2 posted... DezCaughtIt posted... Mal_Fet posted... shockthemonkey posted... He was never reaching for it. He was reaching for his ID, and the officer told him to stop because ~~the police don't have x-ray vision that allows them to see if it's a wallet or gun in your pocket~~. Jesus fucking Christ Show me in the video where the cop says "STOP." Show me where in that exchange he actually uses the word "STOP reaching for your ID." Time stamp it. Because that phrasing is never fucking used from what I've watched. "Don't reach for it!" was the phrase used. "It" was in reference to the gun Castille admitted to having, and he was never reaching for it. In no way did the officer tell him to stop moving or to stop reaching for his ID. The police can fuck up too, you know, and they clearly did here. It's not that hard. It doesn't matter if the 'it' in question was the wallet or the gun. If you tell a cop you're armed and they say don't reach for 'it' you stop fucking reaching for anything and show your hands I guess a lot of people haven't seen the video where cops had a black guy stopped, he lied about having weed and started reaching in his car. They told him not to reach like 15 times, he kept saying he wasn't, then he pulled out a gun and shot them both point blank in the stomach and ran --- I could see you, but I couldn't hear you You were holding your hat in the breeze Turning away from me In this moment you were stolen... <cite>thronedfire2 posted [p:881561096] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote><cite>thronedfire2 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>DezCaughtIt posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote>He was never reaching for it.</quote> He was reaching for his ID, and the officer told him to stop because the police don't have x-ray vision that allows them to see if it's a wallet or gun in your pocket.</quote> Jesus fucking Christ Show me in the video where the cop says "STOP." Show me where in that exchange he actually uses the word "STOP reaching for your ID." Time stamp it. Because that phrasing is never fucking used from what I've watched. "Don't reach for it!" was the phrase used. "It" was in reference to the gun Castille admitted to having, and he was never reaching for it. In no way did the officer tell him to stop moving or to stop reaching for his ID. The police can fuck up too, you know, and they clearly did here. It's not that hard.</quote> It doesn't matter if the 'it' in question was the wallet or the gun. If you tell a cop you're armed and they say don't reach for 'it' you stop fucking reaching for anything and show your hands I guess a lot of people haven't seen the video where cops had a black guy stopped, he lied about having weed and started reaching in his car. They told him not to reach like 15 times, he kept saying he wasn't, then he pulled out a gun and shot them both point blank in the stomach and ran</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
k darkfire 06/21/17 6:34:59 PM #301:	Split second choice/. The Cop did everything right. You reach for a gun and you're gunna get shot. <cite>k darkfire posted [p:881561260] in Philando C... [t:75483299]...</cite> <quote>Split second choice/. The Cop did everything right. You reach for a gun and you're gunna get shot.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Topic List	Page List: 1 ... 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10

Current Events > Philando Castile Dash cam is out. (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Philando Castile Dash cam is out.