Poll of the Day > Internet Nazis are mad about virtual Nazi killing

(+) Yeah! (+)

http://www.avclub.com/article/internet-nazis-are-mad-about-virtual-nazi-killing-256689

People are mad that you kill Nazi scum in Wolfenstein. WOLFENSTEIN
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May be offensive

Like many unmoderated comment sections, the Wolfenstein II trailer is the purest argument against the notion that a marketplace of ideas will improve the world. It's a free-for-all between people who don't know or care about each other, can't figure out who's serious, and are having their entire debate under a video about a man named "B.J. Blazkowicz" who's been fighting cyborg Nazis since before many of them were born.

Warning: graphic hate speech and offensive language ahead.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/12/15780596/wolfenstein-2-the-new-colossus-alt-right-nazi-outrage

Here is one with examples of the comments. The ridiculous comments. Check out the trailer video yourself to see them.
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good, I am glad they are offended
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PyroBlade1985 posted...

Is it just me, or does the main villain look like Hilary Clinton?

I think it's just you. That's a pretty common hair cut for the time and I don't see it in the face. It is a woman with a light colored Bob cut.
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I'm pretty sure they're just fucking with you and the rest of the world into thinking they're serious.

Not unlike when they convince the world that stupid shit like an 'OK' hand signal is a white power symbol.

Mission accomplished.
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Smarkil posted...

I'm pretty sure they're just fucking with you and the rest of the world into thinking they're serious.

i don't think this 8D Stratego is the right game for me
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RCtheWSBC posted...

i don't think this 8D Stratego is the right game for me

This is 18D12 Chinese Checkers
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At a certain point it stops mattering whether you're being ironic or not. A perfect imitation is functionally the real thing.
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"Youve been lied to by propaganda machine! we're the good guys!"

<couple comments later>

"Too many ****ers in this game!"

Smarkil posted...

I'm pretty sure they're just fucking with you and the rest of the world into thinking they're serious.

if you read the second article it talks about this

But who’s serious here? To some extent it doesn’t matter — an ironic Nazi is still a Nazi. But Poe’s Law is out in full force, so things that seem like obvious mockeries of the alt-right get taken for the real article as well.

Best to not be invoking Poe's Law when it aligns you with the Nazis

Blighboy posted...

At a certain point it stops mattering whether you're being ironic or not. A perfect imitation is functionally the real thing.

Yes indeed. Vonnegut said it well: "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be."
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I'm surprised mafia 3 was even released. So much c***, n***** and f***** in that game.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Smarkil posted...

I'm pretty sure they're just fucking with you and the rest of the world into thinking they're serious.

if you read the second article it talks about this

But who’s serious here? To some extent it doesn’t matter — an ironic Nazi is still a Nazi. But Poe’s Law is out in full force, so things that seem like obvious mockeries of the alt-right get taken for the real article as well.

Best to not be invoking Poe's Law when it aligns you with the Nazis

And you're giving them the exact reaction they're looking for.

This is their stupid version of when their detractors complain about the same shit on the other end of the spectrum. This is the same thing as the people complaining that RE5 was racist because a white guy was just murdering black people. The setting being in Africa was immaterial.

And an ironic Nazi is definitely not the same thing as Nazi. You might as well be saying that Colbert from his old show is just as bad as the people he made fun of.

If you want to get into a tiff about it, fine. But just know you're giving these neckbeards exactly what they want.
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I usually only care about what I want. idgaf about what neckbeards are for or against. People doing things out of spite is all the rage now and it's beyond stupid.
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Blighboy posted...

I usually only care about what I want. idgaf about what neckbeards are for or against. People doing things out of spite is all the rage now and it's beyond stupid.

This
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Smarkil posted...

And an ironic Nazi is definitely not the same thing as Nazi. You might as well be saying that Colbert from his old show is just as bad as the people he made fun of.

Colbert's over-the-top intent is clear. Internet comments are not clear in their tone or intent. It is not an apt comparison. Poe's Law doesn't come into play with Colbert.

Being an ironic internet Nazi is still sharing Nazi ideals... maybe the posters do it as a joke, but there's zero clarity to it. And the message still gets spread.

Smarkil posted...

This is their stupid version of when their detractors complain about the same shit on the other end of the spectrum. This is the same thing as the people complaining that RE5 was racist because a white guy was just murdering black people. The setting being in Africa was immaterial.

Isn't it more like when people were mad about Far Cry having white doomsday cult people be the bad guys? Because that was a lot of whining, and the white nationalists did get mad and threaten to boycott.

Smarkil posted...

If you want to get into a tiff about it, fine. But just know you're giving these neckbeards exactly what they want.

No tiffs here, someone being a Nazi for fun still makes them complicit in spreading and sharing their ideals regardless of intent.
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MechaKirby posted...

Blighboy posted...

I usually only care about what I want. idgaf about what neckbeards are for or against. People doing things out of spite is all the rage now and it's beyond stupid.

This

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RCtheWSBC posted...

MechaKirby posted...

Blighboy posted...

I usually only care about what I want. idgaf about what neckbeards are for or against. People doing things out of spite is all the rage now and it's beyond stupid.

This

It's such a shift. like how did we get to a point where people are acting as ironic Nazis for fun--and having strangers defend this stuff? Bizarro world
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VeeVees posted...

good, I am glad they are offended

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Doctor Foxx posted...

Colbert's over-the-top intent is clear. Internet comments are not clear in their tone or intent. It is not an apt comparison. Poe's Law doesn't come into play with Colbert.

Being an ironic internet Nazi is still sharing Nazi ideals... maybe the posters do it as a joke, but there's zero clarity to it. And the message still gets spread.

Colbert's intent is absolutely not clear. Plenty of people had no idea who the fuck he was. You could take any one of his clips out of context and show it to a person he was making fun of and they wouldn't have known unless it was one of his more ridiculous segments.

That's why stuff like The Onion is so successful. People are stupid enough to still buy into it, even if it SHOULD be a clear intent.

Also, who do you think is 'buying' this message? Do you honestly believe there are people out there that look at that who aren't already in that camp? Do you think someone who isn't a white supremacist looks at the comment "Too many fucking n******" and says, "Well this fellow seems reasonable. I'd like to hear what he has to say".

You can't even convince a person to change their opinion with hard science and factual information. You really think a couple of dumbass youtube comments by basement dwellers are really convincing a world of people to join their cause?

Doctor Foxx posted...

It's such a shift. like how did we get to a point where people are acting as ironic Nazis for fun--and having strangers defend this stuff? Bizarro world

I like how you're implying I'm defending them so much as I'm pointing out that it's stupid to react to these people. You don't have to like what they're doing - no normal person should. I'm just saying your reaction to is exactly what they're after. I'd rather ignore them like any sane person should.
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Sounds like nazis need those very safe spaces they insult people for wanting.

Smarkil posted...

I like how you're implying I'm defending them so much as I'm pointing out that it's stupid to react to these people. You don't have to like what they're doing - no normal person should. I'm just saying your reaction to is exactly what they're after. I'd rather ignore them like any sane person should.

You're so vain you probably think that comment is about you

(it's about the puzzling behavior trend on the internet)

Smarkil posted...

You can't even convince a person to change their opinion with hard science and factual information. You really think a couple of dumbass youtube comments by basement dwellers are really convincing a world of people to join their cause?

You really think this comment is going to change anything? I like linking to the AV club when they have things of interest. Incidentally created by The Onion but not used for that satire.
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Smarkil posted...

I like how you're implying I'm defending them so much as I'm pointing out that it's stupid to react to these people.

Yeah she was still talking about the people in the comments, chill
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"People" are mad about anything. This sort of trash is just conflict baiting. Maybe there's a handful of people genuinely upset people but this sort of nonsense is just low-skill shit-posting in youtube comments. Like seriously, youtube comments are one of the most reviled forms of human interaction and once they can be held up as an example of how polluted gaming culture is with genuine Nazis they're suddenly legitimate? Please get a life and stop being such babies over such obvious trolling.

Living life and acting in irony is how we got hipsters, and I seem to recall the Internet hates hipsters

I will take seeing ugly ironic fashion over reading ironic ugly ideology any day
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Smarkil posted...

Colbert's intent is absolutely not clear. Plenty of people had no idea who the fuck he was. You could take any one of his clips out of context and show it to a person he was making fun of and they wouldn't have known unless it was one of his more ridiculous segments.

But if you take his clips *in context*, the satirical nature of his work is blatantly obvious. In other words, you have to work to distort them if you want to make them ambiguous.

Not so with many of these comments - it's completely impossible, even with full context, to identify who the "real" Nazis are and who's just doing it for the lulz.

And, as has been brought up elsewhere, at some point it stops making a difference. As the old (likely misattributed) Decartes quote goes - any community that gets its laughs by imitating idiots eventually attracts real idiots who mistakenly believe they are in good company. At a certain level, ironically spouting off Nazi talking points for giggles and the shock factor becomes no different from stating those same talking points because you actually believe them - to a dispassionate (or sympathetic) observer, you're just screaming racist epithets.
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SomeUsername529 posted...

"People" are mad about anything. This sort of trash is just conflict baiting. Maybe there's a handful of people genuinely upset people but this sort of nonsense is just low-skill shit-posting in youtube comments. Like seriously, youtube comments are one of the most reviled forms of human interaction and once they can be held up as an example of how polluted gaming culture is with genuine Nazis they're suddenly legitimate? Please get a life and stop being such babies over such obvious trolling.

i think it is funny that anyone would be or pretend to be bothered. But it is also quite bizarre and sad that people take the time to be ironic Nazis.

Giving them attention or reactions would be replying to their youtube comments. This is commentary from afar.
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#Nazilivesmatter
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Blighboy posted...

At a certain point it stops mattering whether you're being ironic or not. A perfect imitation is functionally the real thing.

Let me know when internet trolls start rounding up jews and killing them by the millions. Because that's when they'll be perfect imitations. Not when they're posting stupid comments under youtube videos.
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From what I can tell, no one is really defending nazis as the titles all suggest.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

You're so vain you probably think that comment is about you

(it's about the puzzling behavior trend on the internet)

RCtheWSBC posted...

Yeah she was still talking about the people in the comments, chill

That's not true, because everything is about me.

darkknight109 posted...

But if you take his clips *in context*, the satirical nature of his work is blatantly obvious. In other words, you have to work to distort them if you want to make them ambiguous.

But if you take the context of what 4chan is and what they've done in the past, what they're doing now also makes sense. At least in their own purview. You can't just claim what they're doing is wholly different because one person is actually funny and the other isn't. The act is the same. And in fact, the purpose of the content, in this case anyway, is NOT to be viewed in context.

They want you to believe they're serious because they're being assholes for the sake of being assholes. It's the new aged version of trash tier bullying. The same as the kid who gets on xbox live and calls you a f** all the time. They want you to be angry because that's how they get their jerkoff material.

The best response to people like that is to ignore them.
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ninja_lootz posted...

Let me know when internet trolls start rounding up jews and killing them by the millions. Because that's when they'll be perfect imitations. Not when they're posting stupid comments under youtube videos.

The US President is a real-life Internet troll though, so we're kinda half way there, in a way.
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I still want to know what was up with that little lizard at the end of the trailer. The little animated one.
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Can't we go back to shooting black zombies? Or is RE5 still considered racist? All I know is that we've been shooting white zombies for years and the second when you find black zombies in Africa, all of the sudden it's racist. Well, I guess they should have mass-imported white zombies for RE5 so everybody could whine about it being racist for not featuring black zombies.
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*Reads the article*
*Sees two sites referenced which are both notorious cesspools of internet trolls*

K
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Smarkil posted...

But if you take the context of what 4chan is and what they've done in the past, what they're doing now also makes sense.

Sure, but here's the thing - 4chan is not a monolithic entity. Parts of the site revel in screwing around and doing whatever outrageous thing is likely to rile people up - that's the garbage trolling you're referencing and it's been around for at least 10+ years now (for as long as I can remember 4chan being a big thing, actually). But there's also a portion of the site that's risen more recently that holds very strong, legitimately held, far-right views. Those two groups co-mingle, because they enjoy a sort of symbiosis - the trolls recognize that noxious, far-right views evoke shock and outrage from nearly everyone, and plenty of the more zealous of the far-right crowd either see the trolls as useful idiots in bolstering their numbers (and driving the hated left-wingers crazy) or are too stupid to realise they're being quietly mocked.

The problem is, you could show me a string of comments advocating Nazism out of 4chan and I honestly would not be able to tell you which of those two groups made the comment. And when an outside observer can't tell the difference, it more or less ceases to be a meaningful difference at all.

Smarkil posted...

The best response to people like that is to ignore them.

I used to strongly advocate this approach, but lately I've been wavering. That used to work really well in the pre-internet era, because a movement based around provocateurism would die out if starved of attention. But it doesn't work that way anymore in the era of Youtube and Facebook and Twitter. Everyone has their own megaphone, their own private soundstage that they can use to get their message out, and a bevy of tools at their disposal to find a receptive audience. The idea that we can simply squelch an opinion en masse and have it die out is largely an obsolete one now - we've moved past the era where "media" took the form of a few newspaper chains and television channels that were controlled by a handful of media conglomerates that were, at least in part, susceptible to mass opinion. Our media intake is now so fractured and fragmented that it's impossible to control in that way anymore (and honestly? Good fucking riddance).

So if we can't starve these movements of air anymore, the best reaction is to fight them head on. Don't rise to the bait, don't get emotional and start calling them whatever slur comes to mind - that's what they want. Instead, calmly and rationally point out all the various ways they are wrong and how their worldview is shitty.

Because at that point, your concern is not the messenger. Whether you're talking to a troll or an actual hardcore Nazi, you're not changing their mind (because he doesn't actually hold that opinion for the former, or is too entrenched in his views to change in the short term for the latter); but the ones whose minds you can change are the ones silently watching the exchange, who are judging the participants and trying to understand which one sounds like a better, more rational viewpoint.

If I had a teenage son who was reading these exchanges online and still in the phases of working out his political ideology, I'd much rather he read an argument between a Nazi (or a Nazi-imitator) and someone talking sense than be watching a Youtube video by that same Nazi(-imitator) that had no opposing view being voiced (because they're all too busy "ignoring the trolls").

Most noxious views fall apart under careful scrutiny and it's not hard to make their adherents look like the raging assholes they are. That's the ultimate beauty of democracy and free speech - if you're right (and if your opponent is a Nazi, you're ALWAYS right), just prove it and most people will readily recognize it.
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knivesX2004 posted...

Sounds like nazis need those very safe spaces they insult people for wanting.

Absolutely. I've gotten moderations for "offending" nazis multiple times on this site. They're the special-est of special snowflakes and couldn't survive one minute outside their safe spaces.
What do you expect, though? Anyone who's a nazi is by default a moron and a coward (that's right, mods, I just insulted anyone who self-identifies as a nazi, and I don't fucking care!) and needs to hide behind the protection of authority figures rather than argue or fight (as the case may be) against those they hate face to face.

I mean, I don't support Nazi beliefs, but I support the rights of Nazis to complain about stupid things on the internet as much as I do any other person.
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Don't show them the original Bionic Commando...
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DarkKirby2500 posted...

I mean, I don't support Nazi beliefs, but I support the rights of Nazis to complain about stupid things on the internet as much as I do any other person.

Killing virtual nazis isn't "stupid," any violent video game has you killing creatures/people. There's nothing uniquely "stupid" about this game than any other one w/ killing, and in fact it's more socially acceptable than most other NPC victims in games.

darkknight109 posted...

If I had a teenage son who was reading these exchanges online and still in the phases of working out his political ideology, I'd much rather he read an argument between a Nazi (or a Nazi-imitator) and someone talking sense than be watching a Youtube video by that same Nazi(-imitator) that had no opposing view being voiced (because they're all too busy "ignoring the trolls").

Good point
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Damn I'm hyped, that game is going to be awesome. I loved the first one though.
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"YouTube comments and 4chan posts"

LOL
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2017: extreme-right is full of crybabies, extreme-left is violent and oppressive.
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streamofthesky posted...

Killing virtual nazis isn't "stupid,"

No, but complaining about it is.
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@Doctor_Foxx
Just read this and thought of you

http://www.avclub.com/article/meme-toting-racist-troll-fails-make-friends-actual-256657
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RCtheWSBC posted...

@Doctor_Foxx
Just read this and thought of you

http://www.avclub.com/article/meme-toting-racist-troll-fails-make-friends-actual-256657

Lol I read that earlier and thought about linking it in here for fun. Good stuff.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

RCtheWSBC posted...

@Doctor_Foxx
Just read this and thought of you

http://www.avclub.com/article/meme-toting-racist-troll-fails-make-friends-actual-256657

Lol I read that earlier and thought about linking it in here for fun. Good stuff.

God this article is awful.
All he does is call everyone a nazi/white supremacist with no explanation.
Well they are defending a statue of a politician from the 19th century who owned slaves so obviously everyone who doesnt want the statue torn down is a nazi/white supremacist/racist/trump voter (he actually used all these titles in this article). Lets not forget that Clayton Purdom cant even name the politician.
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Yeah the tone was heavily editorial throughout. But he clearly says it's a Sam Houston statue.
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