Board 8 > Survivor/Big Brother/TAR Summer Topic - Heroes vs. whatever else they think of

(+) Yeah! (+)

Impactful in what respect?
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Impact they had on the series, duh!

Returning players, twists, references, legacy/memorability.
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Well take Guatemala off. First returnee vs returnee AND HII come out of it.

Fiji kills the car curse.

The other three are all good to argue. Also, notice that those are all also often considered low tier seasons.
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In that case, your list looks about right. I might say Gabon instead of WA.
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Thailand for sure. Only one returnee and it was just another Pagonging after a brief blip of gameplay from Marquesas.

Gabon, sadly. Only three returnees, none of whom even made jury their second time around. No new twists either.

Nicaragua, sadly. Only Brenda has returned and got an invisible edit. Only new twist was widely considered a flop.

After that it's tough. I think Fiji has to be mentioned because only Yau-Man returned as a third boot. It DID kill the car rewards on the show though.

And then Guatemala is fifth with ZERO returnees (except Steph, who was on the HEROES tribe, so even production wants to forget Guatemala.) Yes, some of the twists were used later, but they were altered dramatically.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

Well take Guatemala off. First returnee vs returnee AND HII come out of it.

Fiji kills the car curse.

At first I was thinking the same thing for Guat, but then that iteration of the HII is never remembered. I'd argue that Panama/CI have way more impact than the rough, rough draft Guat presented. It definitely works in Guat's favor, though I don't think it's a strong point.

Also no returnees, and the season is overall forgotten by most people.

Fiji does present the first iteration of the true HII, which is important. And the car curse dies there (for whatever that's worth). Yau-Man being the only rep and doing terribly in Micro is important, though. And it's not a well-received season.
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Can you really blame Yau for being bad in Micro.
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I'm not blaming him. That's just what happened. He went early and had no impact.
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I didn't mean it like that but yeah
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I literally just rewatched the Fiji premiere. The reason this season was unimpactful is because it lacked the personalities many of the prior ones had. And it didn't kill the car curse - the lack of sponsorship did. It did introduce HIIs as we know them and showed that was the way to work it, though.

My list would be:
-Thailand
-Fiji
-Gabon
-Nicaragua
-South Pacific

Thailand had one returnee and was genuinely reviled by fans from when it first finished airing.. Fiji, in addition to being a terrible season, had some of the worst twists in Survivor history and zero relevant returnees - the true HII was really the only thing it's notable for. Gabon has had two returnees but neither lasted long and no lasting impacts from the strategy, twists, or legacy. Nicaragua had only Brenda return and is only memorable for bad things. South Pacific had three returnees in Caramoan but their legacy was all built in that second season, not South Pacific (we're not counting Ozzy's return because he's Ozzy). Those three aside, that horrid season has nothing going for it in any other department.

Also what happened to darkx's account?
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Fiji had a TON of personalities. A lot of them negative, but still, you had people like Yau-Man, Earl, Dreamz, Alex, Rocky, Lisi, Anthony, Sylvia, Michelle, and Boo who all made a pretty big impact.

Fiji DID kill the car curse though. A combination of Cindy giving up four free cars, plus Dreamz fucking over the season's fan favorite by stealing his car, led to sponsors being less-than-willing to pimp cars on Survivor.

Also, Darkx quit the board for personal reasons a few days ago.
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Damn. I really liked Darkx.

Yeah Fiji is underrated.
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Cindy doing the car thing was in Guatemala, not Fiji.

I have only one fond memory of Fiji: The Edgardo Blindside. THAT is something I should've mentioned. But really, that's the result of the change in how HIIs work, so it ties into what I said. HIIs and how to get around them.

What other seasons could be contenders here? I may change my mind on Fiji, but I have to rewatch the rest of it first.

...wish me luck.
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Fiji at least introduced making fake idols. And was the first season to have the standard idol rules
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Inviso posted...

Fiji had a TON of personalities. A lot of them negative, but still, you had people like Yau-Man, Earl, Dreamz, Alex, Rocky, Lisi, Anthony, Sylvia, Michelle, and Boo who all made a pretty big impact.

Fiji DID kill the car curse though. A combination of Cindy giving up four free cars, plus Dreamz fucking over the season's fan favorite by stealing his car, led to sponsors being less-than-willing to pimp cars on Survivor.

Also, Darkx quit the board for personal reasons a few days ago.

Yeah Fiji is not a season with great gameplay or great work by the producers during the game but it was a great season for personalities.
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Saw an ad for the new season of Australian Survivor on TV here last night. Seems like it will be similar to the last season in terms of it being 24 contestants/55 days. Not sure if it's available online or not, but I guess a few of you may be interested if it is.
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StormTR posted...

Cindy doing the car thing was in Guatemala, not Fiji.

I know. Cindy was one strike, but Dreamz was the straw that broke the camel's back.
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augh that episide 7 death match
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The Mana Sword posted...

augh that episide 7 death match

It's the most unfortunate. :\
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edit: this is genius s2 spoilers, if it wasn't obvious

I'm having a hard time getting behind anyone other than Sangmin winning this season. Not that I necessarily hate any of them, but none of the other 5 really feel like they would "deserve" to win based on what they've done this season. Yohwan and Junghyun have been failing all season, Hongchul is entertaining but doesn't really feel like he contributes strategically, Jiwon seems to just follow what whoever on his team is doing...Yooyoung would probably be the most palatable winner of the five, but even she hasn't really done a ton.
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S2 is regarded as the worst season of the four. It's the only one fans tend to agree on its placement.
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Rewatching Cambodia so I can feel more informed on my Cambodia vs. Game Changers opinion. I'm surprised they did that episode 4 immunity challenge after filming Kaoh Rong-- that one seemed unusually brutal.
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They did it because "They're Fan-Voted in Returnees! They're tougher! They can dig deeper and want it more!".

I wish they would have aired Kaoh Rong and Cambodia in order so Aubry could have been on Cambodia instead of Game Changers. Give her Shirin's spot because Shirin is the worst.
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You really want Aubry to go out second for overplaying?
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Just finished the premerge. It was a lot better than I expected-- there isn't really a bad episode here. I think it's more tolerable when the sting of Peih-Gee going/Jeff going/Spencer being passed over 3 times isn't there anymore.
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S36 format update from redmond, not actual spoilers but in spoiler tags jic

UPDATE 06/14/17: Inside Survivor understands that Ghost Island will be more similar to Exile Island (but with a twist) than Redemption Island. It will be a separate location castaways are sent to throughout the game for short periods of time. It WILL NOT be a “ghost tribe” like the abandoned Season 30 version where eliminated players wait for a chance to reenter the game.

thank god
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Chaeix posted...

S36 format update from redmond, not actual spoilers but in spoiler tags jic

UPDATE 06/14/17: Inside Survivor understands that Ghost Island will be more similar to Exile Island (but with a twist) than Redemption Island. It will be a separate location castaways are sent to throughout the game for short periods of time. It WILL NOT be a “ghost tribe” like the abandoned Season 30 version where eliminated players wait for a chance to reenter the game.

thank god

The thing is, that just sounds like Exile Island, doesn't it?

i have zero problems with that
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Looks like Rob is releasing a TEOS for Big Brother US (called 'But First').

As someone who has listened to about half of TEOS, I'm pretty interested. There's a preview of BB2 available.
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StormTR posted...

Chaeix posted...

S36 format update from redmond, not actual spoilers but in spoiler tags jic

UPDATE 06/14/17: Inside Survivor understands that Ghost Island will be more similar to Exile Island (but with a twist) than Redemption Island. It will be a separate location castaways are sent to throughout the game for short periods of time. It WILL NOT be a “ghost tribe” like the abandoned Season 30 version where eliminated players wait for a chance to reenter the game.

thank god

The thing is, that just sounds like Exile Island, doesn't it?

clearly it's an excuse to bring old survivors in for cameos. Like someone shows up and has to deal with rupert yelling for three days
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Down to final 3 now. Should finish this season this weekend.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

You really want Aubry to go out second for overplaying?

I just mean Shirin's spot in the cast, not necessarily her fate in the game
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Swap Monica out for Aubry. Shirin was still a valuable contribution to the season. And swap Debbie for either Kimmi or K-Wigs.
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I finished my Cambodia rewatch. My opinion didn't really change; it's pure strategy except for Abi's antics, but the strategy was actually decently entertaining.

I think people should direct their hatred on Cambodia's impact more than Cambodia itself. Like, the style of strategy for Cambodia works imo because it does occur naturally via the 2 swaps/pre-game alliances/impressions based on previous seasons/pressure for redemption. However, for MvGX at least it doesn't make any sense for the gameplay to be portrayed that way-- it feels like everyone is overplaying because they feel obligated to do so.

Anyways, I still think Cambodia > GC. GC really doesn't succeed at anything, across boot order, editing, twists, characters, overarching story. At least Cambodia consistently provided entertaining strategy, even if the characterization was below average overall.
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The Mana Sword posted...

Down to final 3 now. Should finish this season this weekend.

Who you rooting for/expect to take it?
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Inviso posted...

Swap Monica out for Aubry. Shirin was still a valuable contribution to the season. And swap Debbie for either Kimmi or K-Wigs.

I beg to differ. Shirin will never be a valuable contribution to any season she's on.

I think Shirin was pretty good on both her seasons.

I do need rewatch both though.
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Cambodia was better than Game Changers.
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Cambodia and Game Changers had the SAME strategy. Like, it's literally the same situation. Kinda crazy, but then it tapers off at the end once the dominant alliance has power. The main difference is that the dominant alliance in Game Changers didn't coalesce until the final episode, whereas the Jeremy/Spencer/Tasha trio was pretty solidly-established (and thus less exciting) well in advance.

Boot Order? Game Changers was pretty fucking good. With the sole exception of charisma vacuum Sarah, we got to the final eight with seven fascinating characters. Even though big names went early, they got great stories in their brief time.

Editing? Equally bad on both counts, although I'd argue that Game Changers' editing was great up until the Debbie boot, and only really went to shit in the Andrea/Michaela boot. Cambodia was consistently underediting characters and dropping stories, and had no "good" period of the season. It was just average to below-average the whole way through.

Twists? Yeah, Cambodia wins here, if only because GC used the same exact set of twists, but added the stupid double tribal, plus Debbie's boat adventure. That doesn't make Cambodia GOOD though. It's the same overabundance of twists we've seen in the last three goddamn seasons.

Characters? Nope. Like you said, everything was about strategy. The only characters who actually felt like CHARACTERS and not strategy-bots were Stephen/Kass/Abi, with a couple underedited gems like Keith/Woo. Game Changers had a TON of characterization.

Overarching story? Both equally bad for the same reason. All the strategy led to people overplaying and flipping back and forth. Jeremy/Spencer/Kelley had consistent stories. Sarah/Brad/Tai had consistent stories. Plus the "Zeke fucks up" arc was good, and the "Andrea is a threat" arc was decent. Not to mention the six episode "Queen stays Queen" arc which made the first half of the season indisputably good.
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Troyzan was fascinating?

The boot order for Game Changers was pretty unequivocally a distaster. Tony, Sandra, Malcolm, JT, etc go early. Arguably the three least popular players (Hali and Sierra are the only real competition) literally make the final 3
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Peridiam posted...

The Mana Sword posted...

Down to final 3 now. Should finish this season this weekend.

Who you rooting for/expect to take it?

Sangmin is the only real winner here, obviously. I watched the F3 episode this morning, and I'm glad he didn't fall off in 3rd place again. I wouldn't hate Yohwan as a winner, but he'd be a pretty big meh considering the dude wasn't able to win a single game the entire season. I'm not convinced Sangmin is going to be very good in 1v1 games though, so I have a bad feeling about how this final is going to go, but we'll see.
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Jeremy isn't a character in Cambodia? And robot Spencer turning into a human isn't a story?
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Jeremy was a better character than Sarah, sure. But the majority of his characterization was still "look at Jeremy play a really good game of Survivor". And as for Spencer, shoving the "look! He's learning human emotion and is a real threat to win!" Story down our throats is actually WORSE than a choppy narrative because at least a choppy narrative doesn't drag out the entire season only to end with "psyche! He's still a robot that the jury hates and he loses 10-0, despite Tasha ALSO losing 10-0 and getting a much more solid loser edit"
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So Jeremy story > Sarah Story
Brad Story > Spencer Story but
Tasha Story > Troyzan Invisible Story

Cambodia wins.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

So Jeremy story > Sarah Story
Brad Story > Spencer Story but
Tasha Story > Troyzan Invisible Story

Cambodia wins.

Troyzan's story is better than Tasha's.
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The Mana Sword posted...

Peridiam posted...

The Mana Sword posted...

Down to final 3 now. Should finish this season this weekend.

Who you rooting for/expect to take it?

Sangmin is the only real winner here, obviously. I watched the F3 episode this morning, and I'm glad he didn't fall off in 3rd place again. I wouldn't hate Yohwan as a winner, but he'd be a pretty big meh considering the dude wasn't able to win a single game the entire season. I'm not convinced Sangmin is going to be very good in 1v1 games though, so I have a bad feeling about how this final is going to go, but we'll see.

Not as compelling of a finale as S1, but I think both are worthy in their own way.

I was hardcore rooting for Sangmin though, yeah.
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Espeon posted...

eaedwards6400 posted...

So Jeremy story > Sarah Story
Brad Story > Spencer Story but
Tasha Story > Troyzan Invisible Story

Cambodia wins.

Troyzan's story is better than Tasha's.

Troyzan doesn't have a story. He's invisible almost the entire season.

Sorry Inviso, this is crazy talk.
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Also I think it wouldn't take much to argue Spencer's narrative is far better than Brad's, both on paper and in execution. Likewise Inviso just hates Spencer and kinda likes Brad so the bias is kinda obvious.

It sucks that Spencer's ends on such a low, but Brad's is just... not good by the end. It's almost like Spencer's, they build him up most of the season only to have him completely fall off. And I honestly don't think Brad is very compelling most of the season either, whereas at least Spencer is.
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