Board 8 > Studios blaming RT for bad movie performance; might drop critic screens

(+) Yeah! (+)

http://deadline.com/2017/05/pirates-of-the-caribbean-5-dead-men-tell-no-tales-baywatch-box-office-weekend-1202102887/

How can two movies that excelled in their testing underperform stateside?

In the case of Pirates 5, I hear that the movie had the highest test scores in the history of the series. Once audiences get into the movie, they seem to be enjoying it with an A- CinemaScore, higher than the B+ of On Stranger Tides and in line with the second title Dead Man’s Chest and At World’s End, and an 82% positive score. The franchise is still fresh abroad, and given its glorious overseas opening, the movie will certainly be profitable for Disney with an anticipated final global haul of $800M-$900M.

Meanwhile, Baywatch tested over a 91 three times. In all fairness to Disney, the stakes were higher here for Paramount: It needed a home run to start the summer but came in 48% below tracking. Pirates 5 was only $5M off the low end of the $80M Disney was expecting this weekend.

Insiders close to both films blame Rotten Tomatoes, with Pirates 5 and Baywatch respectively earning 32% and 19% Rotten. The critic aggregation site increasingly is slowing down the potential business of popcorn movies. Pirates 5 and Baywatch aren’t built for critics but rather general audiences, and once upon a time these types of films — a family adventure and a raunchy R-rated comedy — were critic-proof. Many of those in the industry severely question how Rotten Tomatoes computes the its ratings, and the fact that these scores run on Fandango (which owns RT) is an even bigger problem.

Both Pirates 5 and Baywatch started high on tracking four weeks ago, $90M-$100M over four and $50M over five days respectively, and the minute Rotten Tomatoes hit, those estimates collapsed. Over the weekend, I heard that some studio insiders want to hold off critic screenings until opening day or cancel them all together (that’s pretty ambitious and would cause much ire, we’ll see if that ever happens). Already, studios and agencies are studying RT scores’ impact on advance ticket sales and tracking.

“There’s just not a great date on the calendar to open a poorly reviewed movie,” said one studio marketing vet this morning.

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maybe don't make shitty films if you want good review scores
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Oh, did Pirates jump on Baywatch's bandwagon? Have fun with this argument. "Critics don't like us boohoo"
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They're fools if they think this is going to change things that much. You might see better opening weekends, but you'll still see colossal falloffs after that for bad movies.
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KingBartz posted...

maybe don't make shitty films if you want good review scores

It appears they'd rather have no review scores. I don't expect it to go too well.
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What about the movies that get great reviews but still end up not making much
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CherryCokes posted...

They're fools if they think this is going to change things that much. You might see better opening weekends, but you'll still see colossal falloffs after that for bad movies.

But they aren't bad movies. What don't you get? The audience for Pirates loved the movie, so if us peons and peasants actually like the product, how is it "bad". Movie opinions are subjective.
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Oh, so it'll be like video games then
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This implies that critics tastes and general audience tastes are very different, but that the general audience puts a lot of stock in what critics think. Seems weird and unlikely.
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The Bethesda of Cinema.

Bane_Of_Despair posted...

What about the movies that get great reviews but still end up not making much

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_trek_beyond/

ikr
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v_charon posted...

CherryCokes posted...

They're fools if they think this is going to change things that much. You might see better opening weekends, but you'll still see colossal falloffs after that for bad movies.

But they aren't bad movies. What don't you get? The audience for Pirates loved the movie, so if us peons and peasants actually like the product, how is it "bad". Movie opinions are subjective.

So what, rather than the opinions of the critics, the masses should use the opinions of heavily biased fanboys?
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I honestly can't imagine Pirates 5 being the kind of movie that is going to be hurt significantly by a low critical score. Like, I just can't imagine anyone who genuinely wanted to go see that movie look at the RT score and say "Oh, never mind." Baywatch maybe I can see that happening with. Like, "oh what are my choices for comedies tonight. Baywatch? Nah that got a low score, let's see what else there is." But for something established like Pirates either you want to see that or you don't.
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Yessss we need to do away with "critic" as a profession.
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tazzyboyishere posted...

Oh, so it'll be like video games then

Not allowed to see films unless you give positive reviews

AdmiralZephyr posted...

I honestly can't imagine Pirates 5 being the kind of movie that is going to be hurt significantly by a low critical score. Like, I just can't imagine anyone who genuinely wanted to go see that movie look at the RT score and say "Oh, never mind." Baywatch maybe I can see that happening with.

Serious question, who was going to go watch Baywatch?

Like, why? Outside of the Rock, anyway.
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Critics aren't anything super special, no. They can articulate their opinions in writing. But do away with advance screenings and people aren't going to go opening night as much, I'd expect.
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SupremeZero posted...

So what, rather than the opinions of the critics, the masses should use the opinions of heavily biased fanboys?

Why not? I mean, I'd rather people just go watch what looks interesting to them and not be turned off by "well so and so says it sucks so maybe I won't". Movie critics are pretty biased too you know, especially against sequels and against movies in the vein of Baywatch to begin with. Critics most likely formed opinions before even going, just like fanboys would.
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SupremeZero posted...

AdmiralZephyr posted...

I honestly can't imagine Pirates 5 being the kind of movie that is going to be hurt significantly by a low critical score. Like, I just can't imagine anyone who genuinely wanted to go see that movie look at the RT score and say "Oh, never mind." Baywatch maybe I can see that happening with.

Serious question, who was going to go watch Baywatch?

Like, why? Outside of the Rock, anyway.

See my edit.
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v_charon posted...

SupremeZero posted...

So what, rather than the opinions of the critics, the masses should use the opinions of heavily biased fanboys?

Why not? I mean, I'd rather people just go watch what looks interesting to them and not be turned off by "well so and so says it sucks so maybe I won't". Movie critics are pretty biased too you know, especially against sequels and against movies in the vein of Baywatch to begin with. Critics most likely formed opinions before even going, just like fanboys would.

So our choices should be between "Definitely biased" and "Maybe biased, but really probably not", got it.

"So and so says it sucks" is going to happen regardless. You're just shifting who so and so is.
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Actually, really, probably not shifting WHO it is, just WHEN they say it, I suppose.
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v_charon posted...

Critics most likely formed opinions before even going, just like fanboys would.

I can't imagine any critic went into Captain Underpants thinking "wow, THIS one's going to be a winner" and that's actually getting pretty decent reviews.
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Wonder Woman only getting good reviews because of SJW agenda
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SupremeZero posted...

So our choices should be between "Definitely biased" and "Maybe biased, but really probably not", got it.

"So and so says it sucks" is going to happen regardless. You're just shifting who so and so is.

I'd rather people form their own opinions based off of what the studios release honestly, and their overall interest in the material, the genre, the actors or just whatever. It's idealistic for sure, but if you think "critics" are somehow actually very well informed in the majority...

AdmiralZephyr posted...

I can't imagine any critic went into Captain Underpants thinking "wow, THIS one's going to be a winner" and that's actually getting pretty decent reviews.

Why? Boss Baby was "decent" too. Dreamworks in the very definition of "decent".
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v_charon posted...

SupremeZero posted...

So our choices should be between "Definitely biased" and "Maybe biased, but really probably not", got it.

"So and so says it sucks" is going to happen regardless. You're just shifting who so and so is.

I'd rather people form their own opinions based off of what the studios release honestly, and their overall interest in the material, the genre, the actors or just whatever. It's idealistic for sure, but if you think "critics" are somehow actually very well informed in the majority...

AdmiralZephyr posted...

I can't imagine any critic went into Captain Underpants thinking "wow, THIS one's going to be a winner" and that's actually getting pretty decent reviews.

Why? Boss Baby was "decent" too. Dreamworks in the very definition of "decent".

People do not have TIME to do that. If you drop reviews, you either delay people seeing it until after the reviews (if they still do reviews), thus spreading out your viewership away from release day (If they go see it at all) or just pretty much dropping a chunk of the people who watch movies (if they don't)
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v_charon posted...

Movie critics are pretty biased too you know, especially against sequels and against movies in the vein of Baywatch to begin with.

the metacritic score for 21 Jump Street, the template Baywatch very much wanted to follow, is 31 points higher
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Jeff Zero posted...

Pirates 5 and Baywatch aren’t built for critics but rather general audiences

pretty shitty excuse when like every Seth Rogen stoner comedy is a huge critical success
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Also, are you comparing Boss Baby's review score to Captain Underpants (which seems wrong, since Captain Underpants is 30% higher), or saying that Boss Baby is genuinely decent?
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Numerical scores are kind of bullshit, though.
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I mean this was really the worst Pirates movie.
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v_charon posted...

AdmiralZephyr posted...

I can't imagine any critic went into Captain Underpants thinking "wow, THIS one's going to be a winner" and that's actually getting pretty decent reviews.

Why? Boss Baby was "decent" too. Dreamworks in the very definition of "decent".

Boss Baby - 52
Captain Underpants - 86

Yeah totally the same. The point is that even if critics goes into a movie with preconceptions the movie has the opportunity to change their minds.
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SupremeZero posted...

since Captain Underpants is 30% higher

oh this is good too hear, the kids wanted to see it and I was waffling because I only have so much time for bad movies

thanks heavily biased film critics!
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Professional critics are a valuable resource, and I question anyone who thinks otherwise.

I've read plenty of well-written negative reviews where I've come away wanting to play/watch in spite of low ratings.

People have different tastes, and a savvy consumer should read reviews and decide for themselves if the stated negative aspects would bother them or not.
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Captain Underpants books were brilliant when I was a kid. And it looks like they've got the visual style down, at least.
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this is ridiculous. studios are moronic. stop remaking movies about franchises nobody cares about to bad reviews in times of financial uncertainty if you want to make money.

studios want to make sure things but also are too afraid to step out of comfort zones to try something new, their failure is a result of lack of skill in their craft. many new properties are successful, while many tried and true properties fail for obvious reasons. own up to your own mistakes.

paperwarior posted...

Captain Underpants books were brilliant when I was a kid. And it looks like they've got the visual style down, at least.

they're well-loved age appropriate books that often appear on library lists in Canada and have for two decades. perhaps if a certain somebody wasn't so dismissive of other opinions he wouldn't be surprised!
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I feel like some people in this topic don't really get the importance of critics. Not surprising given this board's taste in things.

Critics are people who have a lot of experience in a specific medium, and can weigh things, not only in a vacuum, but against history for those who are hoping for something that isn't as formulaic. If you did more than look at whether a critic liked something or not, you'd find that they often say that certain things weren't for them, but might be for a less educated audience that doesn't mind seeing the same thing over and over again.
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iiicon posted...

SupremeZero posted...

since Captain Underpants is 30% higher

oh this is good too hear, the kids wanted to see it and I was waffling because I only have so much time for bad movies

thanks heavily biased film critics!

It's a bird! it's a plane! It's a kids' movie that won't make grownups want to manually remove their own toenails!

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I'm not saying that all critics are pure, that none of them are biased, that there aren't movies that get shat on because they were judged on something that they weren't trying to be. But people need to judge for themselves when a critic score matters and when it doesn't.

For example, if you're thinking of renting Freddy Got Fingered after reading what it's about and who was involved in it, and then its 11% on RT makes you change your mind (frankly I was surprised it was that high, I thought it was even lower than that), you're a dope.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

Yessss we need to do away with "critic" as a profession.

If it wasn't for RT, I might have spent perfectly good money going to see Suicide Squad in theatres. Glad I borrowed it from a friend. Still not worth the time I lost mind you.
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AdmiralZephyr posted...

if you're thinking of renting Freddy Got Fingered

If you need critics for this, then you probably deserve to have to watch it.
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SupremeZero posted...

iiicon posted...

SupremeZero posted...

since Captain Underpants is 30% higher

oh this is good too hear, the kids wanted to see it and I was waffling because I only have so much time for bad movies

thanks heavily biased film critics!

It's a bird! it's a plane! It's a kids' movie that won't make grownups want to manually remove their own toenails!

not gonna lie, I bought tickets for Boss Baby and had my sister take the kids to see it because I thought it looked terrible
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If a movie called "Boss Baby" was good, I would be extremely surprised.
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Man, there are a lot of dumb people.

Critics exist to save you, the consumer, time and money.

They eat at restaurants and tell you if the food is good enough to warrant going.

They drive cars to figure out what the best and worst values are in any given class of vehicle.

They let you know that the Red Hot Chili Peppers have put out an album that is not fundamentally different from the last one, so if you liked or disliked that one, you know whether or not to bother listening to it.

If you want to experience a thing, no critic is preventing you from doing it, and their existence isn't hurting you or anything you love, because you shouldn't care about the opinions of others for things you already love.
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CherryCokes posted...

Man, there are a lot of dumb people.

Critics exist to save you, the consumer, time and money.

They eat at restaurants and tell you if the food is good enough to warrant going.

They drive cars to figure out what the best and worst values are in any given class of vehicle.

They let you know that the Red Hot Chili Peppers have put out an album that is not fundamentally different from the last one, so if you liked or disliked that one, you know whether or not to bother listening to it.

If you want to experience a thing, no critic is preventing you from doing it, and their existence isn't hurting you or anything you love, because you shouldn't care about the opinions of others for things you already love.

But everyone is a critic.
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just because a critic shits on a movie doesn't mean you can't enjoy it if you want

lots of people like films that are objectively bad(i.e. poorly made) and that's OK. Whether you agree with them or not, critics have valuable things to say and you can enjoy something in spite of criticism.
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The Pirates thing has to be made up. There's no way Disney would stop screening movies for critics. The high review scores they get are a huge part of the reason they're doing so well.

As for the Cinemascore thing: sequels are pretty likely to score high here because it's mostly fans who go to see them opening weekend. Not really a fair comparison.
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The problem I have is not necessarily with people who have studied art/movies/whatever they are critiquing, it's those that simply landed a job where they have no real background in the subject other than their own opinions. In that way, everyone can be a critic if they want. The thing about critics and movies is that in reality, very few of them offer what would be considered a "true" critique. I personally have taken courses from a professor that was one such person, and there's a lot more to properly critiquing a film than just saying what is usually said on one of their reports.

RT specifically, my beef is that they allow way too many hacks. From complete racists and bigots to people whom RT actually tells you that they count of their Tomatometer only do so if they are published by a certain publication. That means it isn't about that critic at all, it's about that publication which suggests an ulterior motive. RT's reputation has grown in such a way that it's treated like gospel, and is usually offered up as proof of whether something is actually good or not (see: another topic on this board about Wonder Woman). There are proper critics out there sure, but RT allows a decent amount of people who are not.
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Critics are good, but RT is pretty influential because people put a lot more stock into tomatoscores than they do actual reviews.

Casual Revolution of 2007, yadda yadda
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ExThaNemesis posted...

Yessss we need to do away with "critic" as a profession.

I absolutely agree with this.

Paid criticism is an absurd relic of the past.
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If you think critics are biased against movies like Pirates or Baywatch and you like those movies, then don't listen to the critics; you know that you disagree with their opinions. It isn't particularly difficult to figure out how in like a person is with general critical consensus. Find a critic that has a similar taste as you do.
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