Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Tira, Kirby and Kazuma Kiryu vs. Crono, Juliet Starling and Geese

(+) Yeah! (+)

Tira, Kirby and Kazuma Kiryu have challenged Crono, Juliet Starling and Geese Howard to a King of Fighters team fight! Location of the fight: San Romero High School - A typical all-American high school as featured in Lollipop Chainsaw. All areas within the school grounds including classrooms, pool and stadium are accessible. Attackers start at the school's entrance, and defenders start at the school's stadium. The fighters will fight successive 1 vs 1 battles in their respective orders with no breaks, starting 10 yards from each other at each match, near the defenders' starting point. Until it's their turn to fight, none of them can be interacted with in any way. Which side will win?


Guidelines

- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of a pre-selected plan of battle.
- "Broken" refers to a lot of things, including insta-death, auto-effects, a variety of status effects (e.g., Imp, Silence, Stop, *not* Poison), and revival. Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them, though do use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

-Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags).
-You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
-Leaders cannot vote for their own teams (and players from the same pool may not vote as well), but they are free to argue their case.
-If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
-This match will end in 24 hours.
-The following conventions are in use for match topics: www.gamefaqs.com/boards/570224-mercs/75290480/878106427


Tira is as she appears in Soul Calibur V, with access to all her moves, although she must charge her Critical Edge/Brave Edge moves before using them.

Kirby is as seen in the Kirby Super Star and Smash series. He has full use of his Smash Brothers Moveset along with the moves from his Ninja, Sword and Beam forms. (He has also inhaled Geese Howard, gaining a set of moves fitting him). He cannot inhale enemy fighters nor create helpers from his abilities during the match, but can inhale anything else and will not lose access to his forms due to taking damage.

Kazuma Kiryu is as he appears in Yakuza 5, with all the abilities and moves he can learn in both Yakuza 5 and Yakuza 0. He has a 9mm Handgun, Red Bicycle, and New Flak Jacket.

~VS~

Crono is as he appears in Chrono Trigger (DS), with his best non-broken equipment and all his techs save for Life. Dual/Triple techs with other Crono Trigger characters are allowed.

Juliet Starling is as she appears in Lollipop Chainsaw, with all her abilities and upgrades, including those utilising Nick, with the exception of the Chainsaw Blaster. She may activate Star Soul Power once at any point during the fight, doubling her parameters for 30 seconds.

Geese Howard is as he appears in the Fatal Fury and King of Fighters series, with all of his moves available.

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The dream match never ends! FIGHT!
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@DeathChicken
@Lopen

The floor is yours. I'll post preliminary arguments in a moment.
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DC's argument:

Juliet Solos. Well she would but she doesn’t really gotta, my esteemed opponent kind of threw the match by fielding Tira to avoid an injury. Essentially the other team starts down a slot since Crono can take down Tira with not a lot of effort. Cyclone from 10 yards out and she’s probably dead. Whirlwind if for whatever reason this goes to range. Any of Crono’s spells go off and she’s super dead, I don’t see Tira really having any magic defense.

Kirby’s next and this is admittedly a better fight. Crono probably still wins. Lest we forget, here’s a couple of examples of how stupidly agile he is. He can smack around even an airborne Kirby readily enough:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1onryQ-AXi8&t=0m52s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2STF41rH99E&t=0m10s,

But I imagine he’ll do some heavy damage whatever the outcome. Juliet steps in, and, well…let’s hit the Juliet Highlight Reel, shamelessly stolen from Mercs 4!

She’s a smart cookie. A capable tactician, fluent in Japanese, a practiced necromancer who can keep others alive indefinitely from nothing but a severed head, among other things. But that’s not important here. What’s important is that she has a magical chainsaw of death that can cut through damn near anything. It can cut through speeding, flying cars…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTIPNkQlz-Y&t=0m18s

The ground…incidentally as seen here she’s also ridiculously agile. She can jump far enough that she might as well be flying…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5BG9ONBxIc&t=32m47s

Frigging UFOs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5BG9ONBxIc&t=40m35s

And here she gets double parameters through Star Power. Which in-game actually makes her totally invincible for the duration of it, but if you don’t like that because Mercs, well. She’s still a nightmare that can ruin Kirby’s day without even popping Star Power, especially a wounded Kirby at this starting distance. Entertainingly enough, her Star Power also lasts into the next matchup should she kill Kirby before 30 seconds are up. So if she gets to pop the rest of it versus Kazuma from 10 yards out, safe to say Kazuma is getting buzzsawed. Fight’s over.

Oh yeah, Geese is there too to pick up the scraps if by some odd miracle Kazuma dragged his carcass past Juliet’s meat grinder. Now I do like Kazuma, I think he’s good in a street level “Can toss around and body average thugs and the occasional tiger” sense. That in my view roughly puts him around full strength Geese, master of the ridiculous counter throw and REPPUKEN. Would be a good match there, but we’re never gonna get one since Juliet is going to murder him. If she does not, Geese will STAIN MAH HAMS WIT JO BRA
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Lopen's Argument:

Okay listen I see you're thinking DOUBLE STATS EZ. I want to explain to you why this isn't going to be an autowin. Let's go through the match.

Because it's King of Fighters style, Tira vs Crono starts. This is actually Tira's advantage. Crono is unable to use any of his spells at this range, and his sword techs are a mix of disorienting surround attacks in Cyclone and Confuse, and strong telegraphed attacks in Cleave. The former is countered by the fact that Tira has a bladed hula hoop as a weapon and is regularly creating danger zones all around her by spinning it around various parts of her body, and the latter is countered by Tira being a fairly quick fighter who is unlikely to get caught. What's more is that Tira has a lot more experience in this type of fight, as almost all of Crono's battles are team based forays, most of which vs monsters. Meanwhile Tira's from a game based around this type of 1v1 weapon combat, and has been raised as an assassin since birth. She specializes in this kinda combat. This is just a bad matchup for Crono and one Tira will exploit.

Now when Tira beats Crono, her high pain threshold and having built up a critical edge (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txZ4Hlo9A3s#t=5m05s) will allow her to come out swinging vs Juliet. This isn't to claim that Tira is going to gauntlet through, but that Juliet will probably activate her Star Soul Power before taking Tira out.

This extends into the match with Kirby vs Juliet. Kirby will likely default to a defensive match especially once Star Soul Power is in effect, using his ranged throwing daggers, beam, and sword techs to his advantage. He also has the ability to teleport away in a puff of blinding ninja smoke when hit due to ninja ability, and Geese Howard form will give him many ways to exploit any PREDICTABO moves Juliet throws. Whether Kirby can pull out a win here is debatable, but regardless of who wins, the winner will be tired and Star Soul Power will be out.

Which leaves us to one of the following scenarios: Exhausted Kirby + Kazuma Kiryu vs Geese, or Kazuma Kiryu vs Exhausted Starpowerless Juliet + Geese. In either case, Kazuma's 9MM handgun and his red bicycle will prove decisive, with the 9mm allowing him to get the first strike against Geese, and swiftly execute the tired Juliet if needed, and the red bicycle proving to be an overwhelming melee weapon in the right moment when used with Beast Style. Meanwhile Kazuya is more than a combat capable dude in melee in his own right, and has an incredible amount of superhuman scenes throughout the series. Kiryu also has Red Dragon Spirit to tap into, making him invulnerable to attacks when the going gets tough.

Let finish with some awesome gifs of Kiryu's superhuman badass cred. Guy is bringing it home.

Ridiculous Strength:



(watch this one if you can only be bothered to watch one)
Ridiculous Speed:


(no sword here but good example of how fast he can move-- note no one falls before he's done with the cuts)

Ridiculous No Selling:

Gunner Cred in case you're not sold on the 9MM being decisive:
(that is bullet time with Kiryu's Heat Eye-- he guns down an entire cavalcade of cars in this scene as well as a helicopter and several rockets midflight)

Also he canonically fights this force of men all at once, (not all pictured)


And wins.
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(The only comment I want to make is that Juliet isn't invincible during Star Soul Power, as per M4 precedent. She definitely has sweet double parameters though.)
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tag
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so this match is actually in the end really simple "can Kirby or Tira beat Crono"

That's literally the only question.

I know absolutely nothing about Tira but if she can even have a WWEstyle 50/50 booking matching with Crono I feel like Kirby can outlast the 30 seconds of hyper mode either while fresh or while coming off a win vs. a damaged Crono.

Ninja mode and kirbys natural (slow but limitless) flight make it so I can see him arguably at least running out a nice chunk of timer, if not the whole 30 seconds.

Even in the worst case scenario, Kiryu fights a few people who have super modes similar to Juliet's and canonically he wins all but the one at the end of Y5 (but its worth noting he had a bullet in his abdomen for the entirety of that fight against someone with a super mode which he still WON, he just basically died after.) As long as he doesnt have to weather all 30 seconds of it...I think Kiryu pulls this out.

So I guess the question really is just HOW worthless is Tira REALLY?
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p worthless
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Eddv posted...

Ninja mode and kirbys natural (slow but limitless) flight make it so I can see him arguably at least running out a nice chunk of timer, if not the whole 30 seconds.

Would Kirby even think to do this? He's not exactly... smart.

Juliet s super mode is SUPER telegraphed in much the same way that invincible enemies in kirby are so absolutely - with loud flashing colors and a change in the music. She is clearly a boss fight and kirby is probably looking for the puzzle solution to her and running til he finds it.

Hes not a genius but he can probably manage basic pattern recognition.
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some preliminary thoughts

- crono > tira, but not without some effort. there's no way he has the chance to get off any spells, and I don't see him winning the melee fight unscathed.
- then kirby beats crono
- on juliet: her speed/agility/combat are not actually super impressive. I mean she's 'okay' but I look at her actual boss fights and there's nothing there which, say, adol couldn't do. what is impressive is the Magic Chainsaw That Cuts Through Everything. I would give that good cred against, say, raynor or armstrong. but kirby and kiryu aren't particularly armored so I don't think it makes much difference against them.
- but double stats! that's pretty nice!
- geese = kiryu seems about right. except kiryu has a gun (and can probably get off a shot or two due to bullet time?)

leaning LOLDOUBLESTATS because I don't think kirby is naturally inclined to run out juliet's timer. too bad he doesn't have a street fighter form heh heh
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oh now adol gets respect

six years too late
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Eddv posted...

Juliet s super mode is SUPER telegraphed in much the same way that invincible enemies in kirby are so absolutely - with loud flashing colors and a change in the music. She is clearly a boss fight and kirby is probably looking for the puzzle solution to her and running til he finds it.

on the other hand, this is a good point
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sry I just played ys: the oath in felghana and adol is a p cool dude
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Drakeryn posted...

too bad he doesn't have a street fighter form heh heh

He does have a geese form though - not quite the same though i get it.
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FFDragon posted...

oh now adol gets respect

six years too late

Adol was fairly upkeep'd purely because NOBODY knew Ys back then. It's a hotter property now!
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Skyridge87 posted...

Eddv posted...

Ninja mode and kirbys natural (slow but limitless) flight make it so I can see him arguably at least running out a nice chunk of timer, if not the whole 30 seconds.

Would Kirby even think to do this? He's not exactly... smart.

-accidental post; going to redact and reconsider-
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So I'm like super tired, but I will say that yeah, this fight winds up being Crono > Tira, if Crono puts any kind of dent whatsoever in Kirby then it's Juliet vs wounded Kirby, and then Juliet and Geese vs Kazuma. Not complicated
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Also yeah, Tactical Mastermind Kirby deciding he needs to immediately fly away instead of going "HIIIIIIIIIII", covering the 10 yards and punching Juliet in the face is kind of silly
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Furthermore furthermore, these matches always go according to FMV rules rather than gameplay (says right there in the rules blurb!). But even gameplay Juliet can leap tall buildings in a single bound, so to call her 'okay' in agility is way off

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVKwJKsvFeg&t=11m16s
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TIL that tactical genius is required to run away from chainsaws wielded by glowing magical girls who have their own theme songs.
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Actually that theme song starts whenever she engages in combat, independent of her going into Super Mode. Doesn't work quite the way it does in game, because Mercs
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Kirby doesn't exactly need to go out of his way to play a defensive battle here. He has ranged options that his opponent does not, not using them would be silly and Kirby doesn't really favor melee vs ranged he just does whatever is needed.

Also I still say Tira is stronger than Crono at close range. Bad styles matchup. Crono trying to attack her with flurry strikes from all sides isn't that good if your opponent is typically swinging all around themselves. Just Tira's natural attack mode is a counter to him and this type of fight is more to her strengths than his.

And Kiryu = Geese is terribly underselling Kiryu. Look at the gifs dude. Nothin Geese does touches that stuff. Further Geese's style is actually really bad against a guy with a gun. Guy's style is to draw you towards him and then PREDICTABO you. If he's getting shot at his rushdown options are fairly poor and there's no incentive for them to come to him.
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*Actually* she specifically has Nick Moves here, meaning regardless of not having the Chainsaw Blaster, she does have Nick Popper. So she can shoot him with Nick's head from aways off

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbgXduVkVQQ&t=0m10s

...not that I see the need, since they start 10 yards away. She can cover that with her flying buzzsaw attack in a blink and he's dead
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Shooting a head seems inferior to pretty much every other ranged option in the match by a large margin to me. Seems on par with arguing Dan's Autograph Toss.
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Also am I the only one who can't see the gifs I linked

Not sure why the links were butchered in the copy pasta

I'm going to repost the awesome bull one and see if I can see it with this other link


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"Nice." Still wouldn't save him from Juliet + Geese
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Okay see now that one I can see.

Clearly people just didn't see these awesome gifs I linked of how great this guy is and that's why they're humoring Geese Howard as being on his level. I'll repost em in a viewable form.

Speed seems most relevant in this match. Dude is probably able to keep up with 2x params Juliet with this speed and reaction times which is way above what she's packin. Smokes Geese in either case.








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Also he's got nothing on Juliet's deadly pole dancing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrFUx7o0xqk&t=0m24s
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I cant see the gifs in the first post no
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It's okay I'm here with gratuitous gifspam. We will make things right.
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And that's a really nice set of gifs you got there of Kazuya beating up pretty standard mooks. You know who Juliet beat up? 90 FOOT ELVIS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNw0CC66KSE
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Youre not even showing him in his more impressive showings.

Like those gifs are mostly Kiryu vs mooks.

But he does fight real monster level people too. His fight vs Saejima (who literally wrestles an enormous grizzly and wins ) just as a for instance.
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So you have a pretty strong street level guy vs the girl who takes on zombies bigger than skyscrapers. Little out of Kiryu's zipcode here
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He's beating up standard mooks but with speed way beyond anything Juliet shows

Also those standard mooks are probably more capable than most lollipop chainsaw zombies which are kinda jokey really.

Also let's see some POWER gifs.






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Not seeing anything there that Heihachi couldn't do off the top of my head. Killabilly >>>> Heihachi
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Also just a smidgen less impressive than this, gotta say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5BG9ONBxIc&t=32m47s
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Oh so the gifs were not just failing me only

true story, I saw none of them had loaded and quoted the argument post to make sure the links actually worked

All of them showed me their stuff so I just assumed it was my shitty net refusing to load all that glorious gifness, not that they didn't work for anybody
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So basically tl;dr on gifs

- Moves fast enough to take out groups of guys before they can react, and throw a guy into the air, disarm him, and hit him with the weapon he stole from him before he lands
- Good enough awareness and reaction speeds to dodge rockets
- Strong enough to stop a charging bull and wrestle it down, stop a leaping tiger with one punch, swing a motorcycle around, and destroy a statue with one hit

Also he literally has a segment of the game where he guns down an entire squad of guys from a car, and guns down a helicopter-- including shooting rockets out of the air with his pistol, and has bullet time shown with his, so his gunner cred here to do major damage should not be in question

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOkpQMNSDvM

(that's the segment in question, segment vs the helicopter starts at 2:30)
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Tira's a bit of a jobber. She spends the whole Soul Calibur series losing fights and setting things in motion by convincing others to do things.

A one on one fight certainly does her no favors, since she lives and dies by chaos
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K, so keep in mind that if Crono jobs out Tira, this whole thing is basically over since even if you think he can't beat Kirby, he can certainly hurt Kirby enough that Juliet rips him a new puffhole. Then it's Kiryu vs everyone and that doesn't go well
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The question is how Crono fares against your typical Soul Calibur characters in a straight up melee fight. Like I agree she's fairly low tier on the Soul pecking order, but Crono wouldn't exactly be a powerhouse there given the sword technique he displays in CT. Guy seldom if ever has pure melee duels-- it's about the team dynamic and spells that really makes the guy decent
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It should be noted that 9 mm is kiryus worst gun.

His write up is kinda garbage compared to the level of equips he could have available based on what he can use in that game (but hes also not a weapon specialist - there are other Yakuza guys who specialize in those).

Kiryus style is a power style but not a grapple dependent one like Saejima.

That said one thing Kiryu is really really good at is disarming people. And without her chainsaw Juliet isn't much of a challenge.
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Crono disrespect has always been pretty weird to me. Look at this asshole go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1onryQ-AXi8&t=0m52s

Now you can argue that he has help there from Ayla to get him into the air, but that doesn't really account for zipping around like some crazy magic cannonball
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Tira disrespect is weirder imo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq85QiXtFGE#t=0m52s

Like just look at the combo there in the next 10s or so. That's way more impressive than any melee thing Crono's doing anywhere in Chrono Trigger. Like she doesn't have much in the way of canonical battle wins because she's more of a manipulator type, but she's not like, a joke character, and she has the lore on her side that she's a legit fighter and pretty impressive fast combos all things told.

(Hey we're 52s buddies)

(And Actually the one at around 2m20s is even better)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq85QiXtFGE#t=2m20s
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I don't think you want to be going to fighting game Youtube videos for character strength, else we can start arguing that Dan is in fact better than Tira

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOAEGBgnAts&t=0m20s
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Except that doesnt quite track because even in gameplay Dan is presented as kind of a joke.
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It's not really for character strength as much as showing what techniques she has.

Dan's techs actually generally look pretty jokey so the comparison doesn't really wash-- Tira's actually look effective
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Goddamn ninjas
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And frankly none of the above are in the same league as Crono flying around like a laser bat, so <_<
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