Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Booker/Chrom/Yuffie/Ryu 3/Nilin vs. Lara Croft and Sonic the Hedgehog

(+) Yeah! (+)

Booker deWitt, Chrom, Yuffie Kisaragi, Ryu3 and Nilin have challenged Lara Croft and Sonic the Hedgehog to a fight! Location of the fight: Green Hill Zone - Loop-the-loops, hidden springs, deadly spikes, and an abundant supply of power rings. Though others might find it bizarre, Sonic and company are right at home. The stage is as seen in Sonic Generations' modern form. Attackers will start at the beginning of the stage, with defenders at the end. Lara Croft has turned the terrain into ground zero of real hell on Earth. It will be subjected to incredibly strong storms, with gale-force winds liable to tear apart anything not securely fixed to the ground, whilst anything airborne will be subject to constant electrocution from suspiciously accurate lightning bolts. In addition to the storms, it will gradually break up, creating fissures in the ground and generally collapsing under the strain.. Which side will win?


Guidelines

- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of a pre-selected plan of battle.
- "Broken" refers to a lot of things, including insta-death, auto-effects, a variety of status effects (e.g., Imp, Silence, Stop, *not* Poison), and revival. Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them, though do use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

-Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags).
-You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
-Leaders cannot vote for their own teams (and players from the same pool may not vote as well), but they are free to argue their case.
-If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
-This match will end in 24 hours.
-The following conventions are in use for match topics: www.gamefaqs.com/boards/570224-mercs/75290480/878106427

Chrom is as seen in Fire Emblem Awakening, as a level 20 Great Lord. He is equipped with the Exalted Falchion, Noble Rapier, Blessed Lance, and Gradivus and has the skills Dual Strike+, Dual Guard+, Aether, Aegis, and Rightful King. He will benefit from a 50% boost to all parameters so long as Yuffie is alive.

Booker DeWitt is as seen throughout BioShock Infinite, with access to all of his fully upgraded weaponry as well as all of his vigors save Possession and Return to Sender.

Yuffie is as she appears in FFVII and the Kingdom Hearts games, a ninja wielding a giant shuriken. She has access to all of her limit breaks, as well as every magic type materia aside from Ultima, Destruct, Transform, Exit, Revive, and Full Cure.

Ryu is as seen in the endgame of Breath of Fire 3, equipped with the Royal Sword, Divine Helm, Laquer Shield, and Shaman's Ring. He has all of his abilities except Raise Dead and Resurrect, master skills, enemy skills, or accession.

Nilin is as she appears in Remember Me, fully upgraded with all of her Pressens and S-Pressens apart from Sensen RIP.
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~VS~

Lara Croft is as she appears in Tomb Raider (2013), with all of her character upgrades, as well as fully upgraded dual Magnum Pistols, Competition Bow, Combat Shotgun, WWII SMG and Climbing Axe. Walls do not necessarily have to be comprised of craggy rock for Lara to be able to scale them.

Sonic is as he appears in the Sonic series and Smash 4 (minus game mechanics), in his base form at his canon levels. He does not have any emeralds, Chaos Control, or weird things like that.

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Green Hill's bridge is coming down, coming down, coming down, Green Hill's bridge is coming down and taking a team with it! FIGHT!
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@Luis_Sera89
@Tirofog

It begins! Argue it out!
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First off, this is the Green Hill Zone in question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGobge1kfjo

It's long, narrow, and much of it is at a high elevation. Thanks to Survivor, it's also subject to an incredibly fierce storm, and is gradually falling apart. On a normal day, it would take any non-Sonic merc here HOURS to find the other team, given how many miles it is from start to finish on difficult to navigate terrain for non-platformers. Under Survivor conditions? It's a pretty safe bet that neither team is meeting the other during the course of the fight. So rather than a fight, I think this becomes a case of who survives the terrain the longest. No-one in the match can fly, so falling off the terrain would be game over for anyone (even if they survived the fall, they wouldn't be able to get back up to carry on the fight). There may only be two of them compared to five, but I also think Sonic and Lara are the best equipped to outlast everyone else.

Starting with Sonic, he's a platform character on his own turf who already routinely deals with bizarre, uneven terrain. His SSB4 moveset helps his jumping ability a lot here, and his speed running into the wind cancels out the force of it. If the chunk of land he's on begins to fall away, he shouldn't have much difficulty navigating himself to a safer area.

As for Lara, there are several segments of the Tomb Raider reboot where she has to scramble through disintegrating terrain in difficult conditions to safety. Examples include here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSnTkheVaAk

You can skip to 6:10 and 10:30 for notable parts if you want. Also here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vgaiC9Tegg&spfreload=10

From the beginning. She has the strength, agility and quick wits to adapt to rapidly changing situations and avoid dying. Even when the ground beneath her gives way she finds a way to survive.

Additionally, I think it's kind of a benefit that Sonic and Lara are outnumbered here. They only have each other to worry about and help survive, compared to any of the other team that have four other people to think of. It's easier for two to communicate and work together as a team under challenging circumstances.



tl;dr - If you only take away two things from this - the terrain is long enough and volatile enough that the two teams will never meet in combat; and Sonic and Lara are the two best characters here to survive a collapsing Green Hill Zone.
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Am saddened that this isn't Booker T.
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now this is a match that potentially uses an ability correctly to defeat larger numbers

but I'll wait on the counterargument
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I personally think that in a survival battle of man vs terrain the team with healing magic and buffs probably wins out. I also think Chrom with 50% buffs and the agile teleporting Yuffie are the best at navigating the terrain.

Chrom and Yuffie could probably win this 2v2 straight up.
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My initial thoughts are that Chrom and Ryu3 are pretty much fucked

Whether Booker, Nilin and Yuffie or Lara and Sonic survive longer is kinda a push. Both sides have one speedy person who can get out of danger easily (Yuffie teleports, Sonic is 2FAST), one person with lots of parkour and climbing experience (Nilin, Lara), and Booker has his skyhook which maybe works here? Not sure, been a while since I looked at bioshock infinite stuff. Definitely want arguments from both sides before voting.
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Now by "airborne" do you mean like, any jumping? Because that would be kind of an awkward choice, stand there and die or try to jump the collapsing pits and die
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Jumping is probably fine. Any prolonged flight is what gets zapped (such as planes and helicopters in Tomb Raider).
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this is surprisingly close. good ability use.

what does Nilin even do? is she relevant here?
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'interp' imo but yeah, I would say you need a certain amount of airtime to start riding the lightning. If the situation is that lightning bolts instantly tag you the second you leave the ground, Yuffie wins because she heals up and that's about it.
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Gatarix posted...

this is surprisingly close. good ability use.

what does Nilin even do? is she relevant here?

Nilin is a martial artist with a little bit of range and she navigates bunches of hazardous (and very vertical) environments in her game. She's relevant IMO - Lara is probably the better rock climber but she's no slouch.
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Quick and dirty writeup:

I agree with Luis' assessment that the teams probably won't meet in battle (and if they somehow did, my team has a numbers and combat advantage and stomps there). So, focusing on survivability aspects:

Booker - Civil war veteran that successfully navigates a floating city under siege. The Skyhook system is just a rail that the hook attaches to, IIRC, so I see no reason why it wouldn't work here in a worst case scenario.
Chrom - I have no idea what his platforming experience from Fire Emblem would be, so I would put his platforming prowess at the absolute WORST equal to Ike from SSB. Add in the 50% parameter boost and he should be okay here.
Yuffie - Is a literal ninja.
Ryu3 - Not much in the way of platforming, but does successfully cross a large desert in game, so is no stranger to harsh elements.
Nilin - Plenty of jumping/platforming ability from her game.

Add in the fact that my team has buffs from Yuffie (including Haste) and healing magic from Yuffie and Ryu3 to heal any injuries that might arise and this match is still in my favour.
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I kinda feel like Sonic may be the only one that survives the terrain since he sees stuff like this all the time
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Nilin's athletic and does a good deal of parkour and awkward terrain navigation in her game, but never in the kind of conditions in play here. Remember Me is a totally urban environment. It's stable. This is the rocky outdoors in wild weather, which Lara demonstrates surviving.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoaPXlKYoIo

Chrom has fine jumping cred. Probably better than anyone here with 50% increased parameters. He's not going to have any trouble.
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Lara

(And sanic)
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Spiritual vote for Team Chrom btw
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yuffie

team should be fine with haste
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-hfFH5cv5w

Canon tornado in a hill experience. Sonic has got this. Would be much harder if Classic Sonic, but modern's got that boost power that makes verticals a breeze AND home field advantage. The odds of him making a mistake are slim to none, and if the teams do happen to meet, the odds of him tripping up someone to fall to their deaths is extremely high.
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Lopen posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoaPXlKYoIo

Chrom has fine jumping cred. Probably better than anyone here with 50% increased parameters. He's not going to have any trouble.

He literally just jumps straight up in what looks to be specific attack since the other person does it right back to him. That doesn't seem to me like it'd automatically translate to great platforming skills, especially in horrible conditions and on unstable ground
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I kinda give Sonic the edge here to know the best places to survive hell on earth in the Green Hill zone.
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(my vote doesnt count though)
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Who cares if it's straight up it's a big freakin jump. At 50% stronger across the board and with haste as needed he's going to have no issues
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Yeah, gotta give it to Sonic. By far the best platformer here. He's been in tornadoes... Hell, Crisis City pretty much is the exact "hell on earth" kind of gig described here. Even if somebody makes it to him, I have no faith in them being able to fight him in what's left of the terrain, since all he'd have to do it play keep away until they slip up, or catch them off balance with a homing attack.
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Lopen posted...

Who cares if it's straight up it's a big freakin jump. At 50% stronger across the board and with haste as needed he's going to have no issues

Vertical leap =/= other jumping/agility skills. And again, he did it off of completely stable ground. And he has zero mid-air mobility, meaning that if where he's about to land suddenly splits open or caves away, he's done. Parkour-like skills are pretty much a MUST here, and he exhibits none.
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So are you trying to argue he has no agility or control in the air despite doing a quadruple somersault in mid air or am I misreading you
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Lopen posted...

So are you trying to argue he has no agility or control in the air despite doing a quadruple somersault in mid air or am I misreading you

Yes, because that somersault didn't give him hardly any horizontal movement
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Holy shit

For the first time, Sonic is getting respect

Not for fighting of course, but still
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I'm just saying a guy who does a quadruple somersault landing cleanly enough to instantly do a sword slash without breaking stride not having "agility" is ludicrous
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Lopen posted...

I'm just saying a guy who does a quadruple somersault landing cleanly enough to instantly do a sword slash without breaking stride not having "agility" is ludicrous

Flat, stable ground.
No weather conditions.
Basically straight up and then straight back down.

When you can show me Chrom having the parkour-like skills in horrible conditions that Sonic has, then I might buy that he'd be better than Sonic at traversing it. Until then, the idea is absolutely laughable.
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I'm not saying he's better than Sonic at traversing it. No one is.

I'm saying he's good enough at it to not die when backed up by a teleporting ninja with healing magic.

Also Marth jumps later in the scene and makes a lot of horizontal distance with "the same move"
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Lara Croft is as she appears in Tomb Raider (2013), with all of her character upgrades, as well as fully upgraded dual Magnum Pistols, Competition Bow, Combat Shotgun, WWII SMG and Climbing Axe. Walls do not necessarily have to be comprised of craggy rock for Lara to be able to scale them.

more info on this please.
like i don't know if that's relevant or not here but if it + Sonic's help can save her ass that's pretty important. the other weapons, outside the shotgun, not as important considering the terrain issues. booker's hook might be a fair comparison to it maybe? wouldn't rely on any real range either way, this is gonna be fairly close if any enemy does damage to each other.


beyond that it really does seem like healing doesn't matter. buffs can - increased resistance to the elements, bulk, speed, power, etc is all pretty important. healing? not really, the issue ain't getting hurt, the issue's falling to your death. the best person by far is Sonic on this terrain, agility, speed, and reflexes are what he needs and even hasted Yuffie (the best bet there) is nowhere close to Sonic on any of that, let alone the giant experience gap between dealing with these sorts of situations. it's pretty much a match meant for his exact skillset.
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Well then we have to agree to disagree. Jumping up, flipping in the air, and then landing with an attack isn't that impressive to me. If he had jumped again immediately upon landing, it'd be a hell of a lot more impressive. If he had jumped off the wall, it'd be a hell of a lot more impressive. That single act does nothing to suggest he could catch Sonic to fight him in the first place even if he does make it to him, and the terrain is constantly collapsing.
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lightning wins everyone dies
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Let me be clear.

Chrom's jump is impressive by normal standards, much like a guy doing a standing triple backflip would be insanely impressive.

But unless I see that guy land the standing triple backflip during an earthquake, in hurricane winds, and with the ground cracking and splitting... It's not impressive in these circumstances.
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Well it doesn't matter if he can't catch Sonic-- if he doesn't reliably die to the terrain then either the match eventually becomes either a fight or a match between the constitutions of the teams as they wait out starvation-- in which case the 50% increased human constitution and healing to repair any damage from slightly botched jumps etc lasts longest.

Also Yuffie navigates fine too-- just blasts Sonic with some magic eventually.
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It's pretty much a match meant for his exact skillset.

This really is something we don't get to see often and it kinda matters, yeah. Regardless of how much respect anyone might have for Sonic in combat, in this environment I don't think anyone below the level of like, Sora or Ryu H can outmaneuver him. It's a very fun match to think about for sure.
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Lopen posted...

Well it doesn't matter if he can't catch Sonic-- if he doesn't reliably die to the terrain then either the match eventually becomes either a fight or a match between the constitutions of the teams as they wait out starvation--

...The terrain is splitting and collapsing. Before long there would barely be ground to stand on.

Chrom falls much earlier in these conditions than Sonic does.
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Wanglicious posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Lara Croft is as she appears in Tomb Raider (2013), with all of her character upgrades, as well as fully upgraded dual Magnum Pistols, Competition Bow, Combat Shotgun, WWII SMG and Climbing Axe. Walls do not necessarily have to be comprised of craggy rock for Lara to be able to scale them.

more info on this please.

It's this:

http://pm1.narvii.com/5909/63c69f559f43450e6b10b4ecd1ebf2d70610fc3c_hq.jpg

She uses it to scale walls and as her makeshift melee weapon. There's also an occasion in-game where gales become so strong that she sticks it in the ground and hangs on to avoid being blown away.
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i'd go higher than either of those really, mainly because they lack the speed sonic has.

i mean sonic cd's intro and end are pretty nice markers of how even classic sonic can go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRaly9tk8v0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Yw9resQolc


i'm sure there's some cutscenes out there 3D Sonic too mind you, i just always think of that game first because the song's stuck in my head forever.
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We have very different takes on the extent of the damage from the ability here I think. Like if it was what you were saying there should be a straight up lifespan on the terrain here.
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It also ends up being far, far easier for her to just ninja up on endless hordes of mooks and sneak pickaxe them in the head than try to shoot them
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Lopen posted...

We have very different takes on the extent of the damage from the ability here I think. Like if it was what you were saying there should be a straight up lifespan on the terrain here.

Well, it says

"In addition to the storms, it will gradually break up, creating fissures in the ground and generally collapsing under the strain.."

It doesn't say it ever stops breaking up
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I mean gradually breaking up could mean any amount of things. If it's breaking up quickly enough that just waiting out the terrain killing the enemy is a viable strategy against opponents with pretty good agility that isn't too gradual to me
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It literally says "Hell on earth."

It's not hell if it's a very slow break. >_>
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Hyperbolic flavor text imo. What it's describing is not hell on earth
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i'm sure there's some cutscenes out there 3D Sonic too mind you, i just always think of that game first because the song's stuck in my head forever.

Also because they remain Sonic's most impressive showing. Being a mountain buster is easily the best thing he's ever done.

https://youtu.be/_5x1yL2kGT0?t=46

Well, at least until Sonic Forces anyway. Dunking on a skyscraper-sized bot with one spin attack is legit.
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It also doesn't make sense to go "GALE FORCE WINDS. .......Oh, and slow crumbling ground, I guess."

Given the nature of everything else in play, it seems logical to assume that it's falling apart fast enough that it could definitely come into play. I take gradual to mean... Not just a few minutes.
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