Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic: Give Me A Quest!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Pretty much.

Minor misplays can make it seem like you got screwed by RNG when really it was down to the player not maximizing their odds to win. Even a minor misplay on like Turn 3 or something can change everything come Turn like 12+ or whatever

Kinda surprised he didn't discuss playing Bloodmage. It's inferior to pinging but is an increase in odds to just using missile because then Alexstraza can no longer take all 3 hits. Not that it mattered in the end.

UltimaterializerX posted...

It's when random minions/spells get added that the RNG gets stupid.

I actually agree with you on this, but I don't care enough about it to rant constantly in the topic. there's definitely no feeling more shitty than a person winning a game off of a card that they did not think was good enough to include in their deck -- but it was just randomly added there and gave them the opportunity to beat you.
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But you add the card that gives you random whatever in the hopes it will give you something useful. Like I don't run Jeweled Macaw for any other reason than the hope it gives me something good, I mean it's a 1 mana 1/1 without it's effect. You use it purely for it's effect. Sometimes it gives me trash, sometimes it doesn't.

Same can be said of stuff like Babbling Book and Cabalists Tome or the Discover cards. You run them either for quest or for the hope you get something good or something that bypasses the 1-2 card limit.

And with things like Rogue and Priest, they literally cannot add some of the cards that they steal (likewise some of the discover ones)


Also a large reason people run those cards are because they are effectively 'Draw a card' and cards that just flat out draw from your own deck generally have high cost.

oh I understand why people use them

I just also understand why it feels shitty to lose against randomly generated cards
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It does feel shitty to lose to them but you also never realize all the times those cards are played and cause you to win because they pull out something terrible/unusable instead.

as someone who uses jeweled macaw

yes I do
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I don't think there's anything wrong with generated cards. I actually really like the idea of putting to use cards I can't justify a deck slot for but can acure a different way. That's why Hyrologist I'd just such a great card.

Maybe they could reveal what card is randomly generated so you aren't blindsided and can play around it but I don't think there is anything wrong the concept of generating cards.
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Or maybe make it like that Paladin card where you can at least deduce the cost of the card they got so can narrow it down.

ShatteredElysium posted...

It does feel shitty to lose to them but you also never realize all the times those cards are played and cause you to win because they pull out something terrible/unusable instead.

50% of the random Mage cards I get are Shatter so I know this feeling.
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the paladin card generators are probably the least offensive in this respect. the hydrologist specifically generates a secret for you to play which is one of like 5 or 6 cards. obviously the opponent will know that they need to play around some secret and it might be possible for them to deduce what it is based on when you choose to play it (since you'll also want to play it at the optimal time). plus when you include hydrologist you ROUGHLY know what you're getting. there's a small selection of options. it's basically 'minion + secret' so this doesn't quite offend as much in the sense of 'beating the opponent with a card you didn't even think was good enough to include in your deck.' the range of possibilities is also very narrow which means there are rarely swing outcomes.

for an offensive range look no further than pre-nerf tuskarr totemic. seriously, I had to look this up because I forgot what it was called. but it used to be so prevalent in the meta because of how stupidly broken it was. summoning anything from a 1/1 to a 3/4 is just too wide of a range and generally led to oppressive outcomes early on in matches as a result of RNG.

Ivory Knight, another Paladin card, is another example of good card generation. it always specifically draws a Paladin spell so the outcomes are within a set library that is possible to think about and visualize. the fact that your opponent will normally see the cost of the card narrows it down even further. this is at least interesting. since you're choosing a card there's a sense of strategy and proper card selection and your opponent can further deduce your pick based on assuming you'd want to pick the best card to have based on the current board state.

offensive examples are stuff like jeweled macaw and babbling book, which both have like dozens of possible outcomes that range from bottom of the barrel to top of the line and just throw something into your hand with no input. that's just silly. and I can say that I've been frustrated when I pull an angry chicken and I felt good when I pulled King Krush. but I also understand that my opponent would be frustrated when I burst him with King Krush for lethal. there's no reasonable expectation that I should be able to win a game by playing a legendary minion that I didn't think was good enough to include in my deck. just because it happened to be one out of like 40 beasts that was selected at random.
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Camden posted...

ShatteredElysium posted...

It does feel shitty to lose to them but you also never realize all the times those cards are played and cause you to win because they pull out something terrible/unusable instead.

50% of the random Mage cards I get are Shatter so I know this feeling.

You and Maria know that feeling when it happens to you. What I meant is you don't know how many matches you win because your opponent generates shitty cards that you never find out about. People only remember the ones where they lost because of what their opponent generated

ShatteredElysium posted...

You and Maria know that feeling when it happens to you. What I meant is you don't know how many matches you win because your opponent generates shitty cards that you never find out about. People only remember the ones where they lost because of what their opponent generated

I have no idea why you're assuming this. it's really patronizing though. not sure if you're intending it to come off that way.

yes you may find this hard to imagine but I am capable of realizing that opponents also get bad draws sometimes, just like I sometimes get bad draws. it's not a hard concept to grasp.
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Indeed that definitely gives a bias to your perception of events.
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I had a Mage get lethal today after getting an Antonidas off of a Flamestrike with Atiesh on the board, which was fun.
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Forceful_Dragon posted...

Indeed that definitely gives a bias to your perception of events.

This.

Of course people know sometimes it happens that their opponents got crappy RNG. But you always know when you lost to those type of cards. You can only make a guess as to how many your opponent lost due to it

So naturally the losses stick in your mind more than the wins. Which generally when you asks sports people, they always say the losses stick more than the wins too, even if they've won the big one. It's just human nature

It wasn't meant as condescending. I'm just as guilty of it as anybody else

MariaTaylor posted...

for an offensive range look no further than pre-nerf tuskarr totemic. seriously, I had to look this up because I forgot what it was called. but it used to be so prevalent in the meta because of how stupidly broken it was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxsFH_oFybI&t=53s
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Yeah I really like the card generation effects. It's very interesting and a good way to introduce variety into Constructed games. It is by far the best variance-increasing mechanic that they've included in the game. Tuskarr Totemic is an exception to this because it plopped the minion directly on to the board. Barnes is another example of something that's problematic but not nearly as broken. Overall I think these sorts of random effects are very healthy for the game. I think the "feel bad" situations they can cause are worth the varied gameplay they create. Plus how else am I going to hear voice clips and see animations for bad cards? Play Arena? No thanks.

I do think revealing the cards would be a good move. I can't think of any that get dramatically weaker when your opponent knows that information. I suppose now opponents can play around removal or specific minions, but a 1/1 for 1 on turn 1 that draws you a card is still really strong.
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When I face other quest rogues: They have firefly and 3 bounces and prep within their first 4 turns

When I play quest rogue: I can't actually draw into completing the quest until turn 8.
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I built an Arena deck for the first time in ages, and draft a silly Warlock with Malchezar and Elise, Trailblazer.

This is gonna be a fun run even if its gonna be poor (Currently 2-1)
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Well, after stopping for the last two expansions or so, I've decided to go back to try and finish the heroic modes yet again. Starting off with Chromaggus.
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I just randomly got 3 Gadgetzan packs, which I assume are from that Collegiate Series thing from a couple weeks ago.
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I have switched up with crawlers in my deck and them not in my deck. I've yet to run into a pirate warrior with the card teched in, but see them consistently when I don't have them. Or I should say. I've yet to actually use crawler as it was intended... against an enemy pirate.
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Yeah I really like the card generation effects. It's very interesting and a good way to introduce variety into Constructed games. It is by far the best variance-increasing mechanic that they've included in the game. Tuskarr Totemic is an exception to this because it plopped the minion directly on to the board. Barnes is another example of something that's problematic but not nearly as broken. Overall I think these sorts of random effects are very healthy for the game. I think the "feel bad" situations they can cause are worth the varied gameplay they create. Plus how else am I going to hear voice clips and see animations for bad cards? Play Arena? No thanks.

I do think revealing the cards would be a good move. I can't think of any that get dramatically weaker when your opponent knows that information. I suppose now opponents can play around removal or specific minions, but a 1/1 for 1 on turn 1 that draws you a card is still really strong.

I'd say the discover spell/secret ones get a decent chunk weaker if your opponent knows what they are. They'd still be played though

UltimaterializerX posted...

Not as funny as me picking Krul from Release From Amber, then making the 3 demons Kazakus potion and cheating Illidan, Jaraxxus, and some taunt demon all out. Apparently if you cheat Jaraxxus out, he becomes a regular 3/15 minion.

I always wondered if ulti was making up his stories. I guess now i know for sure.
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Battlecry, la~

edit: I was responding to #486.

Way to lose a 9-2 arena game with a 1/6 MCT
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Bog Creeper
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okay you know your luck is bad when you can't complete your rogue quest before a shaman completes his murloc quest.
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I decided to sacrifice most of my extra cards to build Purify Priest.

Holy shit this deck is nuts. And I love it a lot.
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when you sylvanas + shadowflame against a secret paladin to wipe his entire board, proc avenge, and steal a 9/8 Tirion

that's some good shit
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Faceless Manipulator, Renounce Darkness, or Mountain Giant?
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Faceless Manipulator without thinking about it
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