Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 193: What a Kick....in the GUT CHECK

(+) Yeah! (+)

Sup, Jakyl.

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man the CHIKARA PPV seems hilariously overbooked

should still be pretty good

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i'm way behind on what's happening this season though =(

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I'm cheering for coffee ninja

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It sounds like you're trying to take it in a more proper kayfabe direction, which is totally not what TNA is going for here.

They're trying to present it as REALLY real, as in "not fake like the rest of the show is fake" like Tough Enough, except that in reality (REALITY reality) it's still a work.

Lopen disagrees and thinks that Gut Check as it exists now still entirely exists within the regular kayfabe and doesn't expose the business at all, and maybe you do too, but I just cannot accept that personally.

My point is more that IF the competition was REALLY REAL, something as egregiously unfair as having the guys compete against opponents of wildly different skill levels would NEVER be tolerated.

It's basically the same as my classic complaint against matches with high stakes where "random chance" plays a huge part (think: elimination chamber). It kills my suspension of disbelief because no REAL athletic competition would ever allow their championship to be so hugely impacted by "luck of the draw"

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Well in the sense of the art of pro wrestling, your opponent doesn't particularly matter in gauging your actual skillset and ring presence, unless it's someone who's not willing to co-operate (or is too big for you to actually do your moveset on).

Ric Flair "can carry a broomstick to a great match" and whatnot.

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Ric Flair "can carry a broomstick to a great match" and whatnot.

Okay, but the odds of him having a great match are a LOT higher if his opponent is Shawn Michaels than if his opponent is The Great Khali.

I guess it depends on whether the judges are operating in kayfabe or not. If they are, then wins and competitiveness matter a lot, in which case it's unfair to make one guy face Aries while the other guy gets Robbie E. If they aren't, then simply "how well you perform in ring" matters a lot, in which case it's unfair that one guy gets to face Aries while the other guy has to face Robbie E...

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Right, the judges aren't operating in kayfabe (well they are but it's a different level of worked-shoot kayfabe but hopefully you get my point), but they're not asking the guy to go out there and have a great match. They just want a small 5 minute sample of his character and his in-ring abilities.

How well a guy sells, how crisp his moves are, and how well he connects with the crowd are things that are evident whether or not he's facing Robbie E or Daniel Bryan.

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How well a guy sells, how crisp his moves are, and how well he connects with the crowd are things that are evident whether or not he's facing Robbie E or Daniel Bryan.

Well, we may just have to agree to disagree on this. I see your point, but I maintain that MAXIMUM FAIRNESS is provided by simply providing the same opponent for everyone. I like my idea of Devon in this role as it gives him something to do that would give the entire segment more credibility imo.

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I see consistency in the judges as being more pertinent. Ric Flair obviously has a much different view as to what to look for in young talent than Taz, for example.

The differing opponents would play a HUGE part if this was largely going on fan vote, because part of the package that makes Aries better than Robbie is Aries's ability to make his opponent look good.

But to the hyper-trained eye like we expect the judges to be, it wouldn't really matter IMO.

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I like how Al Snow was all "This isn't about whether I like you or not, it's about your potential to be a star"

And then Tazz said no to the guy based ENTIRELY on not liking him.

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I wonder if they're gonna constantly stick with the formula of Bruce Pritchard being negative, Al Snow being positive, and the third judge being the swing vote.

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Also I just realized that Gut Check takes up 30 minutes a month that could otherwise be going to THE POPE

...or, you know, actually focusing on the X-Division beyond Aries.

When was the last time a non-Aries X-Division match got on the air? Ion vs. Shelley in late February?

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I cant fault Gut Check no matter what you say Jakyl. For too long ive sat here and said "man it would be nice if wrestling companies tried something new." Gut Check , for better or worse is a big experiment. I expect it to change everytime they do it and to evolve, and either ultimately disappear or re-work itself into something more acceptable.

Even if it ultimately fails i refuse to fault them for trying something that helps the businessat large.

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Uh. How do these completely worthless segments help out the industry? They waste time and take away from other stars. That's like saying the Diva Search helped out the industry because it was something new.

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Because it takes guys who may or may not have been well known and gives them a spotlight, which turns them into slightly bigger draws than they were before if nothing else. It also gives guys, legitimate or not, shots at joining the roster of a major company. How does it NOT help the industry.

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because it's wasting time on segments that can otherwise be focused on very good talent they already have.

i mean i understand where you're coming from and i agree it isn't worthless. it also makes for a very easy and very good segway to get someone up from their development (assuming they do go with getting Ohio) into the main company without needing to change something about their gimmick - it's a straight path upwards. used correctly this would be a perfect medium for them to experiment, bring up, and see how talent is working out in a live field.

but they aren't using it correctly. cut down the time spent on it to 20 minutes and it'll be worth it. have them face devon (good idea) or others who will normally be on the show anyway will be worth it, though Aries is being heavily underused for this role even in kayfabe - he's got a title on him after all. unless, of course, you bring someone up who can and will pin him. then it becomes interesting.

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snowy
first name katana, last name swordsworth. also middle name katana

good job, hulkster

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snowy
first name katana, last name swordsworth. also middle name katana

XD

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I heard you guys like Heath Slater.



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XD Is it too late to edit that WWE's Most Iconic Sound Bytes video?

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Pimpin' still Aint Easy for this Pimp Daddy, even after 11+ years on GameFAQs

Oh god that is incredible

I hate (love) you Heath Slater!

Just finished SD. It felt like an awesome show but I admit that it could just be because Raw and Impact lowered the bar this week.

Felt a lot like the blue brand I knew and loved though!

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Yeah, I watched SD for the first time in months for Dolph vs. Sheamus and it was decent, felt like old-school SD, unlike the MONTHS of SD before i quit.

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Punk vs. Kane was probably the best Kane match since he re-masked too (the competition in that category is what, Orton vs. Kane 3?)

I'm actually very interested to see how these three play off of each other. Would I have preferred Punk vs. Bryan? Of course. But this can work.

Big Show again was booked SO well, I just wish it wasn't Big Show! Why can't they spend that much energy booking Brock Lesnar!

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If the choice is Lesnar or Show....give me the Big Show.

Id rather have the guys that actually want to be here, call me crazy.

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HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO WRESTLE IN THE DARK!?

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So are we doing a chat for Chikara, or are there not enough cool people who bought it for that?

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Watching SmackDown.

So Big Show really is just trying to annihilate the tag team division?

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FOLMARV posted...

So are we doing a chat for Chikara, or are there not enough cool people who bought it for that?

I feel kinda bad because I was the one pimping it the most but I won't actually get a chance to watch it until Monday evening. <_<

I'm housesitting at my mom's house until then and she has craptastic internet. Not suitable for streaming!

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I dunno why you're giving this Show booking so much props, Jakyl.

It's a watered down version of a cliche we've seen 20 times already. Angry monster annihilates random midcarders oh no. Only this time it doesn't really feel like an annihilation it just feels like a normal attack. Like I don't feel these guys should be stretchered out, personally. They should stagger up and limp backstage as if they'd just taken a finisher on the floor.

To be fair I'm not putting this entirely on Show. Part of it is more "safe" product. Not that I'm against it, but really stiff shots and blood really helped to sell beatdowns. And the environment being the ring both times also doesn't help. Beatdowns backstage kinda feel more intense by default.

Now Big Show's relative lack of intensity doesn't help, mind you. Ryback for instance beating up jobbers looks pretty brutal so you can do it with this product and setting, but a guy like Big Show really can't.

So yeah I mean, maybe you're just saying you like the idea in concept, but I'm saying in execution it's so weak it hardly even matters. Good concepts only matter if there's execution to back them up. I don't think this is doing much more to establish Big Show that his win record/size combined with a heel promo or two couldn't.

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FOLMARV posted...

So are we doing a chat for Chikara, or are there not enough cool people who bought it for that?

I uhh...I

Oh yeah I got booked for the show....yeah thats why I didn't order it,

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Nameless2000 posted...

I heard you guys like Heath Slater.

Those damn Flippy Doos.

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I still have to deposit some damn money in my account. God I'm lazy.

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Taggage

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Lopen posted...

I dunno why you're giving this Show booking so much props, Jakyl.

It's a watered down version of a cliche we've seen 20 times already. Angry monster annihilates random midcarders oh no. Only this time it doesn't really feel like an annihilation it just feels like a normal attack. Like I don't feel these guys should be stretchered out, personally. They should stagger up and limp backstage as if they'd just taken a finisher on the floor.

It's all in the selling and the presentation. I don't look at what Show did to Ryder and think "owww that had to hurt." I think "holy crap this guy is a monster!"

The announcers did a great job with it on SD (well at least until they came back from commercial and suddenly stopped being concerned), the production crew captured the PERFECT angles to display the horror befalling Zack and Santino, and Ryder in particular did a great job selling the crippling nature of the attack.

When you add that in to the utter annihilation of Brodus, Kofi, and Truth on Monday, Show starts to look unstoppable.

To me, what Show has done this week is like 5x more menacing and effective than anything Kane's ever done with his goofy fire effects or batteries to the nuts or what have you. This is a literal giant, who wants to hurt everyone who used to be his friend as payback for hurting him a few weeks ago. And thus far he has met absolutely zero resistance.

If the original Nexus beatdown was a 10 on the "holy ****" meter, I put these Show attacks at like a 7.5.

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I feel like it's a lot harder for Big Show because we've all watched him be an upper midcarder for the last three years. Like, it wasn't THAT long ago this guy was losing cleanly to Daniel Bryan and involved in a competitive feud with Cody Rhodes.

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>_>; keep in mind his 'losing cleanly to Daniel Bryan' also involved him beating Henry. and they billed Cody/Show as a case of Cody biting more than he could chew. he's been pretty comfy up there, with this upper midcard portion being the group of people that... pretty much belonged on the high card, even if only for a little while in Cody's case.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Mark Henry's beatdowns were far better than Big Show's.

I just don't think it's impressive or intimidating for a few reasons. The first of which is that these beat downs have been so oversaturated in WWE right now. I mean, weekly we have Brodus Clay delivering a beat down, RyBack delivering a beat down, and Tensai delivering a beat down. It's less awe-inspiring when it's happening so constantly. And I don't feel like Big Show's beat downs have been so much more powerful as if to stand out.

The second thing is that they're just so random. Okay, so he's beating down Brodus Clay. That's fine. But then he's beating up Kofi and Truth because those two randomly show up to save everyone nowadays? That's three people. And then the next time? Santino and Ryder. For no reason. Mark Henry was far more believable in this regard because you could tell he just wanted to f***ing hurt people and make a statement. You don't get that impression from Big Show. I get his motivation for wanting to beat the hell out of Cena and Brodus, and I guess for Kofi and Truth since they interfered... but why Ryder and Santino? And I don't want any of the unsaid reasons where we have to think about it further.

And finally... I'm just sick of Big Show. I've watched him for so long, and nothing is interesting about him any longer.

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well yeah, Henry looks and feels the part a LOT better and he's got a certain intensity that Big Show just does not have. Show hasn't done the monster heel bit in so long that it feels out of place with him, but it's a hell of a lot better than monster face Show.

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From: Nameless2000 | #024
I heard you guys like Heath Slater.


I love you Heath Slater.

Hey, don't hate on Kane hooking up Shane's nuts to a battery.

That was awesome.

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"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

So X-Pac talked about who he thinks will make it in WWE from FCW.

He says Richie Steamboat, Chris Hero, Brody Lee, James Bronson, and Leo Kruger (who Triple H really likes).

Then he talks about Damien Sandow and how he's always trying to learn and ask questions about how to get better and for suggestions. He put him over big.

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Henry's beatdowns were different because he was toppling other monsters for the most part. He was asserting his dominance as a competitor by injuring people. He was just taking what is a reasonable professional goal too far.

Big Show hurts people as a result of selfish emotional pain. To me that's much scarier, if less impressive.

What Show did to Santino was particularly cruel (and potentially paralyzing if done for real) and I would totally buy Santino having to forfeit the US Title over it if they went that route.

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I dunno, I think Show and Henry are fairly comparable, the only difference being that Henry did it against MORE impressive people. Remember, he took Big Show and Kane out for MONTHS and Kozlov out FOREVER.

BOTH were just coming from rather unsuccessful face reigns and felt the need to "make a statement" so that people would take them seriously. It's basically the same storyline over again, except Henry did it a lot better mainly due to his awesome as hell ad-libs.

WHEN I CHARGE FOR AIR, YOU BEST KEEP YO BILLS PAID

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