Board 8 > So I've been thinking... Dragon Age 2 might be my favourite game of all-time.

(+) Yeah! (+)

***SOME MINOR SPOILERS, TALKING ABOUT CHARACTERS AND SUCH***


It feels weird for me to say since I'm usually a fan of really good things. Not in the sense that I only buy things that get over 90 on metacritic, but based more on the fact that most things that I call my "favourites" are loved by tons of people who are into that particular thing such as RPGs, horror movies, DJs, whatever. But Dragon Age 2 might be the first thing that I truly love that seems to be hated by pretty much everyone (online).

I just bought the game 2 weeks ago after having borrowed it from a friend last summer. During the few weeks I had it during the summer I completed it 3 times with different characters and different "alignments". I always understood the complaints about the recycled areas and the fact that it was just a much, much smaller game that was far more linear than the Origins, but I didn't care. I love pretty much everything about it. I'll start with the characters.

Hawke is amazing. I know people out there enjoy the range of dialogue options you get in a game like Skyrim, but all of that just feels empty to me when it's not voiced. Origins had the same problem. I like to RP a character, not act like myself in a video game. DA2 basically gives you three different characters to play, although you're free to switch it up at any point and make the decisions you want. Going through as a sarcastic mage on my second playthrough was some of the most fun I've ever had in a video game. So many of the lines had me laughing out loud to myself just do to the way they were delivered... nevermind the reactions I got from the NPCs. My playthrough as an ******* (only time I've used male Hawke) was quite interesting as well. I hated the game to start out since it felt weird just being a dick to everyone for no reason, but when bad stuff started happening and Hawke actually had a reason to be angry and it became kind of awesome.

But that's just Hawke.. all of the other characters were just as great. Having Varric narrate the entire thing was such a unique way to tell the story, not to mention him being one of the most entertaining party members of any RPG I've played. Even his weapon is awesome... heck, it might as well be another member of your party since it levels up and has a name.

Merrill is just my favourite. I love everything about her character and the way she interacts with your party. All light-hearted and naive when things start out... and then it just gets ****ing dark. I love dynamic characters in games and stories, and she goes through some pretty major stuff depending on your choices near the end of the game. I mean I thought the whole Dalish/Werewolf thing in Origins was heavy... it's got nothing on Merrill's final quest.

This is already dragging on way too long, but Aveline is the ****. She manages to just be a good person without ever getting annoying with it like some other characters do when you make some questionable choices. She also doesn't ever let you get with her. Respect.

I'll finish up with the siblings (Fenris and Isabela are cool too, but I'm getting tired here). Now by giving you two options for siblings depending on which class you choose (Mage or other) they could have went the easy route and made them minor characters or gave them similar personalities since they're twis. Instead you get two completely different characters that interact with Hawke in unique ways. In my opinion, Bethany is great, and Carver is a piece of ****. It sets up such interesting conversations when you can hate your sibling, or be doing everything in your power to protect them. I feel bad for anyone who played through this game just once, because I'm sure they have no idea how different all the stuff with your family can play out during different parts of the game.

That's all for now. I'll talk about the rest later.

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Dragon Age 2 was awesome and tragically misunderstood

Big Spoilers




I think the best parts of the game are how they unapologetically reuse environments and literally almost every single fight is just respawning waves of enemies that teleport in to attack you, making positioning of your characters almost pointless, and how the game was clearly not rushed out in a year to capitalize on DAO's popularity, and how if you choose the mage ending, Orsino turns evil with absolutely no foreshadowing whatsoever, simply because they wanted another boss. And then you have the masterful stroke of your DAO decisions mattering so much, not to mention Leliana showing up in DA2's ending even if she explicitly leaves forever with the Warden in DAO's ending.

Wait no

In all seriousness, I legitimately like Aveline, but the rest of the NPCs are at best boring (Varric might be okay). Probably the most common complaint is Hawke, and the fact that you no longer get to choose origins or even your race (in fact, they didn't bother making a female dwarf model at all; there are simply no female dwarves, period), and this is pretty legitimate: unlike Shepard, who's actually important to ME's story as the only wo/man with the skills and training and Spectre status to get the job done, Hawke just comes off as some dude/tte who happens to be in the right place at the right time in three almost unrelated scenarios that are linked mostly because they all take place in Kirkwall.

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I liked Dragon Age 2 more than Origins. Origins just dragged way too many times. DA2 had it's flaws, yes, and Origins was definitely given more time to develop, but it's gameplay and dungeons became such a bore so quickly.

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Somewhere around the beginning of Act II I realized that I wasn't enjoying DA2 at all.

I'd felt something was off when the first choice of seeming importance I got (smuggler/mercenary) turned out to be completely meaningless. I remember staring at the screen in shock, listening to Varric talk about things I would much rather be actually doing than what you end up doing.

And then we get into wave after wave of rolling around the city to pick up all available quests and then doing them one at a time, holding down W to get to a place marked on a map in the same two or three caves while wave after wave of enemies came after you. Why am I doing this quest? Honestly I have no idea outside of getting dat money. Any attempts to care were quickly shown to be futile, the side quests know they're just lowly side quests and make no attempt to be interesting in any way at all.

Characters were alright though. I don't remember particularly hating anyone, and there were some pretty hilarious moments. I died when Hawke's mother comes out and says your sibling is too much of a wuss to go do anything in front of all the other mercenaries.

So like I said earlier I stopped after Act II, but talking with a friend who played through he says you end up killing the exact same people and doing the exact same things no matter what you choose during the game. Something like side with group X or group Y, then kill the leaders of group X and Y because they're meanie heads. If I'm oversimplifying I'd be interested in hearing more from someone who's beaten the game.

When I first started playing Origins I was immediately invested in the game. I cared more about the first five minutes of DA:O then pretty much the entirety of what I played of DA 2. Although to be fair I played the mage origin first which was probably the best, had I started with something like dwarf noble I might not have had as high an opinion.

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Anagram, no. Just, no. Hawke being special is the exact same thing as Shepard being special. The only thing Shepard has going for him is that he was touched by the Prothean beacon and had the Prothean Cipher. Apart from that, nothing separates. Destiny just picked them for greatness.

I mostly agree with the OP, only that I HATE Merrill. "I want this evil mirror to be fixed so my people can have their culture back!"

"...We don't want our culture back"

"I want this evil mirror to be fixed so my people can have their culture back!"

...yeah seriously go die in a fire

Anagram is pretty spot on.

DA2 was so incredibly rushed and I don't know how you can play it and not notice some of the glaring flaws like the stupid respawning enemies and the reused environments =/

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What the

I mean, I liked DA2 just fine, probably more than most, but still

What the

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I mean, Fenris is amazing and all, but uhh

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No.

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I liked you as a user thundersheep





:(

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I bought it, thinking that it was probably being underrated by Bioware's typically overreacting fanbase. I played for a few hours before realizing that I wasn't having any fun, and it just made me want to play the first game.

And I didn't even like the first game that much.

I returned it soon after, naturally.

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Well, that's certainly an opinion...

>_>

<_<

Thanks for sharing, man!

From: rychu_supadude | #013
Well, that's certainly an opinion...

>_>

<_<

Thanks for sharing, man!

Oh, I'm not even close to being done.

From: Anagram | #002
Big Spoilers




I think the best parts of the game are how they unapologetically reuse environments and literally almost every single fight is just respawning waves of enemies that teleport in to attack you, making positioning of your characters almost pointless, and how the game was clearly not rushed out in a year to capitalize on DAO's popularity, and how if you choose the mage ending, Orsino turns evil with absolutely no foreshadowing whatsoever, simply because they wanted another boss. And then you have the masterful stroke of your DAO decisions mattering so much, not to mention Leliana showing up in DA2's ending even if she explicitly leaves forever with the Warden in DAO's ending.

My biggest complaint in this game is that the final boss is the same no matter which decisions you make. It's Meredith that should be the optional boss depending on whether or not you side with her against the mages. While Orsino's heel turn comes out of the blue, it makes perfect sense in the narrative of DA2. The "good" path would lead you to believe that mages should be imprisoned or constantly watched by the Templars just on the suspicion that they might lose control and hurt people... especially if you chose a Warrior or Rogue and you feel that your sister should not be punished simply for being born with certain abilities. The actions of mages in DA2 are there to show that while mages might have the best intentions, they cannot control their actions if they are influenced by spirits or demons. Anders possibly kills an innocent person, as well as countless other innocents due to his partnership with Justice. Orsino being the First Enchanter is thought to be unflappable, but even he cannot resist the temptations of using blood magic to reach his goals. I'll talk about Merrill in another section. The point is that most mages are not in control and that there is no "good" choice to make. You're going to end up hurting people with any decision you make, which follows the trend of "grey" decisions present in the DA series.

Speaking of series... DA2 is not a sequel to Origins either. It's simply another game set in the same Origin stories were one of the main hooks in the first game, and one of the first details ever revealed about DA2 is that it would feature a more focused, linear storyline centered around a character named Hawke. Hawke already had a story being a Fereldan refugee. Origin stories would not make sense when the focus was for a Human from Ferelden to become the champion of Kirkwall.

Also, the events of DA2 are most definitely connected. I'm not even sure how you could argue that they are "unrelated circumstances". Everything is already in motion before you even arrive at Kirkwall. The expedition is taking place with or without you... but without Hawke everyone probably would have died in the Deep Roads, the relic would never have been obtained and who knows what that would mean for the ending of the game. Tensions with the Quanri existed before you arrived as well, but without Hawke being there... the Qunari would likely have just slaughtered every human in the city and that would be the end of it. The last act should be self-explanatory. The events of DA2 would not have turned out the same without Hawke ever landing in Kirkwall.

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From: dexter28 | #005
So like I said earlier I stopped after Act II, but talking with a friend who played through he says you end up killing the exact same people and doing the exact same things no matter what you choose during the game. Something like side with group X or group Y, then kill the leaders of group X and Y because they're meanie heads. If I'm oversimplifying I'd be interested in hearing more from someone who's beaten the game.

When I first started playing Origins I was immediately invested in the game. I cared more about the first five minutes of DA:O then pretty much the entirety of what I played of DA 2. Although to be fair I played the mage origin first which was probably the best, had I started with something like dwarf noble I might not have had as high an opinion.

I hate to use this saying, but the fun is in the journey rather than the destination. The end will be the same no matter what you do, but the implications of your actions which we will see in Dragon Age 3, will be vastly different (I hope). I've completed the game three times, and I'm currently working on my fourth. I can honestly say that each playthrough has been more fun than the last. Even knowing how things will inevitably turn out. While the major events in the story tend to play out the same, there is quite a bit of variation in the ways that you get there. It sounds like your friend was just talking about the final battle which is probably my biggest gripe with the game.

And I agree with you on the fact that Origins got interesting pretty quickly. You get some nice grey decisions during most of the Origins stories, and it just feels awesome after you become a Grey Warden and really get started on your journey. While I personally had a ton of fun the entire way through DA2, I've noticed some people say it's quite slow until after the Deep Roads. I think it's fin from the start, and then it gets awesome during/after the Deep Roads.

From: Ryo8889 | #006
Anagram, no. Just, no. Hawke being special is the exact same thing as Shepard being special. The only thing Shepard has going for him is that he was touched by the Prothean beacon and had the Prothean Cipher. Apart from that, nothing separates. Destiny just picked them for greatness.

I mostly agree with the OP, only that I HATE Merrill. "I want this evil mirror to be fixed so my people can have their culture back!"

"...We don't want our culture back"

"I want this evil mirror to be fixed so my people can have their culture back!"

...yeah seriously go die in a fire

That's what made her arc so interesting to me. She became an outcast because she thought she knew what was right for her clan and they didn't have any trust in her. The entire time she was with your party she was still concerned about preserving the old ways and making things better for your people. Yet when she obtained the mirror and thought she knew had the knowledge to fix it... it turned out to be the very thing that would (possibly) destroy everything she loved. Throw in a romance with Hawke and you've got a pretty great story there.

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From: Aecioo | #007
Anagram is pretty spot on.

DA2 was so incredibly rushed and I don't know how you can play it and not notice some of the glaring flaws like the stupid respawning enemies and the reused environments =/

I've already said I simply don't care about the reused environments. It has nothing to do with not noticing them. About 95% of the time you were literally going to the same place a couple years later, it's not like they were telling you that it was a new environment and then they just reused the same map. The only exception I can rally think of are a couple of the buildings being designed the same. The respawning enemies is something I never understood the complaint for either... Battles just took place in two or three waves. With the format of critters, normals, elites, and bosses they couldn't just throw everything on screen at once or you'd die in every battle. Nothing really came up out of the blue either. If you start a battle and there is an elite enemy, you know that once you kill the critters and normals, another wave is going to pop up, so you choose whichever enemy to prioritize and you just... do it. It's just a pattern really, and a pattern that is incredibly easy to adjust to. When a group spawns by your mages, you move them. Instead of just planting everyone in a spot and easily avoiding damage for the entire fight.

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What I like about DA2 is that it's the first game in the BioWare series that quite easily justifies Hawke running around and solving a whole bunch of stupid little problems. Hawke is just too damn poor and needs to do whatever he can to keep his head above water. It always felt a little out of place when the main character was helping some kid find their dolly when he was out trying to save the motherf***ing country/planet/galaxy/whatever. Even in the second act, you're just dealing with aristocratic politics.

See, games always think that in order to justify their existence, THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE WILL DIE if not for the intervention of the hero. Is there a problem with this? No, not really. But I applaud games that have a tendency to put value into individual stories. Mass Effect 2 comes to mind: the overarching storyline of the Collectors, despite BioWare's marketing department, is nowhere near as "epic" as Mass Effect 1's whole "if you don't succeed, a race of sentient machines is going to wipe out all the known galaxy." Instead, it was more about building relationships and learning about people and their struggles. It's why I still largely believe ME2 to be the best in the series (and not because of ME3's ending, either). It's mainly just a personal opinion, but I'm getting a bit tired of games that set the stakes so high. Assassin's Creed feels like a series that's gradually heading towards that and I find it a bit troubling. Rather than it being an on going conflict between the Templars and the Assassins and their influence on humanity, it's slowly showing signs of trying to prevent a doomsday scenario from wiping everyone out.

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About 95% of the time you were literally going to the same place a couple years later,

Sorry, but that's simply a flat out lie, and a pretty terrible one.

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From: tereziWright | #018
About 95% of the time you were literally going to the same place a couple years later,

Sorry, but that's simply a flat out lie, and a pretty terrible one.

The percentage was made up, and it might be closer to 80%, but it was definitely the vast majority. Caves on the Wounded Coast, Sundermount, Bone Pits... can't remember the other names of areas right now. But you have quests in these areas in all three acts. The only new areas in Act 3 are different maps, and most of the areas you visit in Act 2 are simply revisited. Unless you're literally talking about the inside of caves looking the same.. in which case we're not talking about the same thing at all.

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There's only one natural cave in the game, just like there's only one mining cave. All that changes is where they start you out, and what paths they randomly block with unopenable stone doors. It's ONE MAP.

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but the implications of your actions which we will see in Dragon Age 3, will be vastly different (I hope).

I wouldn't get too enthusiastic for this if I were you, thundersheep. I love Bioware but they don't usually make good on this.

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Weirdly (and probably controversially), I genuinely do think that the best part of DA2 was how your choices end up being meaningless.

It's almost a deconstruction of WRPGs. Every time it gives you a chance to influence events, something happens that takes that decision out of your hands. Hawke isn't a leader deciding the fate of a kingdom- he/she is a bystander, watching powerlessly as events way beyond their control spiral into chaos. There's no good vs evil, no villain to fight, just tensions that have been simmering for so long that all it takes is one little spark to ruin everything, and we know from the framing device that the war is inevitable and no matter how hard you try there's nothing you can do about it.

It's something that, AFAIK, no game has done before, and I love it. It's just a shame that watching it all unfold involves so much repetition.

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Nothing is true. Everything is tax-deductible

I think you've just fallen in love with the characters so you're ignoring a lot of the flaws in the game because you enjoy the character interactions. Which is ok, I guess, but most people can't and still think the game is poopy.

plus planescape torment has better characters anyway weeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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From: Aecioo | #023
I think you've just fallen in love with the characters so you're ignoring a lot of the flaws in the game because you enjoy the character interactions. Which is ok, I guess, but most people can't and still think the game is poopy.

I wouldn't say I'm ignoring the flaws though. I'm acknowledging them as well as the fact that the rest of the game makes up for them, and then some.

Now for the story.

Given my love for the characters, I think it's obvious what I think about the story. The storytelling in Dragon Age 2 is just so frickin' good. As Rock mentioned earlier, it finally makes sense for you character to be involved in the little problems random people all over the city are engaging in because you're still a nobody and no one really cares who you are. One thing I've long hated about most RPGs is that after a while you start getting really powerful, killing dragons and all other sorts of incredible creatures, yet everyone continues to treat you like some chump for the fact that you could have traveled to that area at any point during the game and they have no reason to respect you. Honestly, it always annoyed the **** out of me that you could be the most powerful person in the world and people would still talk to you as if you were just some dude. This doesn't happen in Dragon Age 2. Each act ends with an important event for the story that drastically changes the way you are perceived by those within Kirkwall. People still treat you like a chump after you've made a name for yourself and basically become nobility, but that's because there are still people who consider themselves "above" you. After becoming the champion you finally get the respect you deserve with only a few people in the entire city having more influence than you.

I really don't want to talk about Origins here because they're just too different of games, but I feel that one of the main reasons that the decisions of Origins make little impact in DA2 is because it focuses on a much smaller problem and even at the end of the game, you have nowhere near the fame or influence of the Hero of Ferelden. The character in Origins literally saved the entire world from the Blight in what was probably the shortest time in history (if every Blight lasted just a year, I'm not sure it would be that big of a deal) while settling the conflicts of the warring kingdoms of Ferelden and doing whatever happened in Awakenings (I've already forgot the story of that game). Hawke's story is just to become the champion of Kirkwall which is almost insignificant given the scope of Thedas. I feel that Hawke is just used as a vehicle to set up the circumstances of DA3. While I could understand people being upset that the game was set up as a sequel and it turned out to be nothing more than a side-story, I think the characters and events of DA2 were interesting enough in their own right to make up for the lack of scope compared to Origins.

I don't think anything needs to be said of voice acting in a Bioware game, but goddamn is it good here. I cannot say that I was ever bored listening to or participating in interactions with other characters in DA2, which is not something I could say about Origins as much as I liked that game. Liking a story comes down to personal taste, and I can't sit here and tell you that the story is objectively good... but it really resonates with me personally. I have never been a fan of replaying games that I've beat, and I can count the games I've done that with on one hand. Playing a game 4 times is unprecedented for me, and I believe that speaks to the strength of the game's storytelling. Despite knowing how the events will play out, I've still never skipped a scene of dialogue just do to how well they are directed throughout the entire game.

Continued?

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You beat yourself up with your past. Don't blame yourself, blame the world. Blame God. Blame me.

The complaints about how things always turn out the same in the story are only half-true as well. BMJ has already covered most of it, but the choices are only "meaningless" in the sense that they do not affect your ending. The choices still have consequences in that world though... it's a weird thing to talk about since none of it is "real", but although killing a criminal, turning someone in, stealing from another person, or lying to some NPCs won't change the fact that the Templars and Mages are still going to go at it to end the game, it doesn't mean that those choices don't have impact in the world that you're in. I hope that makes sense. In a more concrete way, the scenes themselves play out quite differently and you get to see a lot of different interactions in the game on multiple playthroughs. They might not be as dramatic as choosing who to put on the throne or leaving an entire tower of mages to die, but to say that your choices don't matter is like saying it doesn't matter if you kill Connor or not because the Archdemon is still going to die at the end.

Finding out the possibilities of what different things can happen to Hawke regarding his/her family are a great example of how these choices can still have an emotional impact. My first character was a D/W Rogue who I stopped playing a little while into Act 2 because I felt the story would be more interesting if I was a Mage in the middle of these events, I lost my **** in the prologue when that Ogre grabbed Bethany instead of Carver. I had grown to like her so much as a character and I was so excited to see how differently the story would play out if we were a couple of mage sisters in Kirkwall, and then she just got destroyed leaving me with the douchebag Carver. Similarly the stuff that happens with Hawke's mother is quite unexpected as are the events near the last battle (I'll try to leave some things to the imagination incase there is anyone who hasn't beat the game yet). These choices don't affect the major events, but they still mean quite a bit if you're invested in the story.

That's all for now. Gonna play the game a bit more.

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Time to save.

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Let's talk about gameplay.

The battles in Dragon Age 2 kick some serious ass. If you don't think even this one aspect was a major improvement over the first game... I don't know what to say. The speed of the attacks is great and the animations for all of the classes are just superb. Furthermore, every class is incredibly fun to play (after getting a few abilities). Speaking of abilities, I like the way that the skill trees were streamlined, basically giving you access to 2-3 specializations without gimping yourself. I'm not sure how useful all the trees are since I've only played 4 characters and 2 for one class, but I can attest to the Rogue being fun no matter what spec you go with.

Dual-Wield is just fast paced, crazy and fun. The distance closing attacks were a really smart innovation that I hope stays around for the other games in the series. Backstab saw some nice improvements as well, and I love the general utility that Rogues had with all of their different crowd-control options. The Rogue Archer is even better though. The only downside to the archer is that they're simply too good. The game becomes a joke if you play one, even on the hardest difficulties, too much damage, and too many options to get out of harm's way.

Mages are actually balanced compared to Origins where they were just insane. I played a Mage on my first playthrough and when I switched to a Rogue for my second, it felt like I was playing a different game entirely. In DA2 they have a ton of great trees to follow (although I somewhat miss the Arcane Warrior) that give them some nice utility but without making them strong enough to basically solo the game. I know I already mentioned the animations but the Mage animations deserve another. They're seriously that good. Where most RPGs consider staves as weapons you just hold onto for stats, DA2 makes you feel like a complete badass shooting those missiles and pounding the ground for that finishing move. Also, being a mage totally changes the narrative of the game. All of the events become so much more personal with this class, and as a lover of magic users, I loved the hell out of the concept of a refugee Apostate from Ferelden becoming the Champion of Kirkwall.

I'm still in the process of playing through the game as a two-hand warrior (Act 2) but it's easily just as fun as the other classes.

Oh, hockey is back on.

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Quests? Items? Crafting? CUTSCENES?!?!!


Tomorrow.

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My warden totally banged Isabel. I'm looking forward to banging her with my next PC.

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So the questing in the game is pretty standard for the genre, with pretty much all of the quests amounting to "Go over there and kill these people", but it's really the story and the cutscenes that make the quests fun and interesting. The production values are just so incredibly high that every scene is worth watching.... 4+ times. The voice acting is fantastic all around... I can't even pick a few voices that stand out, because they are honestly ALL of the highest quality. The writing itself sounds natural, and it's all delivered with the right emotion and humour when required. After playing the game 4 times, the scene where the Arishok gets angry still gets me fired up each time. Just incredible work on the voice front.

Now a major complaint about this game was the fact that you could only choose your companion's weapons and not their different armor pieces (except for belts, rings and amulets). To this I say, **** yourselves. Wait... that might have been uncalled for. But seriously, it's another one of those changes that everyone seemed to hate, yet it was exactly what I was looking for in an RPG, like the removal of towns in FF13 or the gambit system of FF12. I enjoy the whole trickle-down system of RPGs where you can upgrade your entire party through getting one awesome piece for your main dude, but it just takes so long to do. I hate finishing a dungeon and then spending a couple minutes looking at stats for every piece of gear and trying to find the best fit for everyone. Yeah it only takes a couple minutes, but it's still time I would rather be using to run around and do stuff. Being able to choose the weapons and accessories was enough for me, and it also had the bonus of giving all of your party members unique looks.

The crafting system in DA2 was probably my favourite until I played Tales of Graces f. Rather than finding the actual materials needed for potions, poisons and runes, you just had to find the resources required for each different item, after you had enough resources you could just buy the items with gold. Sure they could have just put the actual items in shops for you to buy, but then there would be no sense of accomplishment for earning the higher end stuff towards the end of the game. It also gave incentive to explore each area. The items themselves were were great as well. A good variety of effects for items in all three areas and priced in such a way that you're not able to stock up on ridiculous amounts of everything, but also cheap enough to warrant spending some coin on.

I'm still trying to find out what I DON'T like about this game... but halfway through Act 2, it's getting difficult.

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